collapse

'23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

Big East Standings

Recent Posts

Big East 2024 -25 Results by Uncle Rico
[Today at 06:13:16 PM]


Server Upgrade - This is the new server by rocky_warrior
[Today at 06:04:17 PM]


Owens out Monday by TAMU, Knower of Ball
[Today at 03:23:08 PM]


Shaka Preseason Availability by Tyler COLEk
[Today at 03:14:12 PM]


Marquette Picked #3 in Big East Conference Preview by Jay Bee
[Today at 02:04:27 PM]


Get to know Ben Steele by Hidden User
[Today at 12:14:10 PM]


Deleted by TallTitan34
[Today at 09:31:48 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address. We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

Next up: B&G Tip-Off Luncheon

Marquette
Marquette

B&G Luncheon

Date/Time: Oct 31, 2024 11:30am
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

College Basketball Commission issues their report. End one and done.

Started by WarriorDad, April 25, 2018, 08:54:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

WarriorDad

The Commission headed by Condoleeza Rice issued their 60 day report this morning.


Highlights

Do not turn college basketball into another professional league (don't pay players)
End one and done
Ban cheaters for life
Blamed the university presidents (who ultimately control the NCAA as members) for making NCAA toothless
NCAA to run recruiting event to minimize AAU events
Certification of agents available to basketball players at high school level and older
Greater transparency of financial involvement by apparel companies


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/apnewsbreak-hoops-panel-says-ban-cheats-end-1-and-done/2018/04/25/f8692a36-487e-11e8-8082-105a446d19b8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c6e68a8dbc30
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth."
— Plato

GGGG

LOL.

So an NCAA commission is recommending that the NBA change a rule?  I'm sure that will happen.  Terrible report.  Trying to keep things the way they are.

https://deadspin.com/condoleezza-rices-useless-commission-on-college-basketb-1825527239

"Rice stood at the podium and threatened to reinstitute freshman ineligibility if the one-and-done rule is not repealed, an arcane and utterly baffling idea that will help no one. Rice also pushed the idea of regionalized NCAA-run showcase tournaments as a way to combat the free reign of AAU and similar high school tourneys. This is another dumb, half-assed move which would only give the NCAA more power and jurisdiction when it can barely handle the responsibilities it has now. Rice also called for harsher NCAA-led punishments, saying they'd like to see the Level I violation penalties bumped up—as seen in every case ever that involves a ton of money exchanging hands, harsher penalties will serve as only an initial deterrent, before schools and shoe companies find new channels to subvert them. And, most egregiously, Rice and the commission unnatural carnal knowledgeing punted as fast as they could when it came to the topic of an athlete's right to profit from their own name, image, and likeness—because of NCAA amateurism rules, athletes currently cannot use their athletic talents or achievements to earn money, in any way, or they will lose their eligibility.

It was clear early on that the team assembled by the NCAA to patch up the underside of college basketball would do just that, applying short-term fixes to problems that will simply manifest again the moment these supposed solutions put into place, in part because harsher punishment is almost never going to fix a systemic issue as plain as income inequality (or rather, income existence)."

WarriorDad

Quote from: #bansultan on April 25, 2018, 08:57:17 AM
LOL.

So an NCAA commission is recommending that the NBA change a rule?  I'm sure that will happen.  Terrible report.  Trying to keep things the way they are.

https://deadspin.com/condoleezza-rices-useless-commission-on-college-basketb-1825527239

"Rice stood at the podium and threatened to reinstitute freshman ineligibility if the one-and-done rule is not repealed, an arcane and utterly baffling idea that will help no one. Rice also pushed the idea of regionalized NCAA-run showcase tournaments as a way to combat the free reign of AAU and similar high school tourneys. This is another dumb, half-assed move which would only give the NCAA more power and jurisdiction when it can barely handle the responsibilities it has now. Rice also called for harsher NCAA-led punishments, saying they'd like to see the Level I violation penalties bumped up—as seen in every case ever that involves a ton of money exchanging hands, harsher penalties will serve as only an initial deterrent, before schools and shoe companies find new channels to subvert them. And, most egregiously, Rice and the commission unnatural carnal knowledgeing punted as fast as they could when it came to the topic of an athlete's right to profit from their own name, image, and likeness—because of NCAA amateurism rules, athletes currently cannot use their athletic talents or achievements to earn money, in any way, or they will lose their eligibility.

It was clear early on that the team assembled by the NCAA to patch up the underside of college basketball would do just that, applying short-term fixes to problems that will simply manifest again the moment these supposed solutions put into place, in part because harsher punishment is almost never going to fix a systemic issue as plain as income inequality (or rather, income existence)."


If memory serves, you are a pay the players guy so it doesn't surprise me that it may not touch on your priorities.

Ultimately this is a committee from various leadership areas asked to put a recommendation together.  They acknowledge one and done cannot be changed by the NCAA.  They are saying to improve college basketball, it needs to be changed.  They advised between the NCAA and USA Basketball to pressure the NBA into changes for the betterment of the game.  It is true that they cannot force that, which is why it is a recommendation.  Some of the other recommendations can be done, others are reliant on other parties and even government enforcement.
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth."
— Plato

GGGG

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 25, 2018, 09:03:10 AM

If memory serves, you are a pay the players guy so it doesn't surprise me that it may not touch on your priorities.


No, I am a "let the players profit off their own likeness" guy.


Quote from: WarriorDad on April 25, 2018, 09:03:10 AM
Ultimately this is a committee from various leadership areas asked to put a recommendation together.  They acknowledge one and done cannot be changed by the NCAA.  They are saying to improve college basketball, it needs to be changed.  They advised between the NCAA and USA Basketball to pressure the NBA into changes for the betterment of the game.  It is true that they cannot force that, which is why it is a recommendation.  Some of the other recommendations can be done, others are reliant on other parties and even government enforcement.


Some of their recommendations are smart.  Like allowing undrafted players to return to school.  Many of them are dumb.

WarriorDad

Those interested in who are the members of the committee.  Emmert and Peterson were not allowed to participate in executive meetings with the committee which occurred roughly 70% of the time, in part to keep them at arm's length in the process.


Dr. Condoleezza Rice (chair)
Former Provost, Stanford University
66th U.S. Secretary of State

Mary Sue Coleman
President
Association of American Universities (AAU)

General Martin E. Dempsey, U.S. Army, Retired
Chairman
USA Basketball

Mark Emmert (ex officio)
President
National Collegiate Athletic Association

Jeremy Foley
Athletics Director Emeritus
University of Florida Athletic Association

Jeffrey A. Hathaway
Vice President/Director of Athletics
Hofstra University

Grant Hill
Owner/Vice Chairman
Atlanta Hawks

Rev. John I. Jenkins, C.S.C.
President
University of Notre Dame

Mike Montgomery
Retired Basketball Coach
Analyst, Pac-12 Networks and Westwood One Sports

G.P. "Bud" Peterson (ex officio)
President, Georgia Institute of Technology
Chair, NCAA Board of Governors

David Robinson
Founder
Admiral Capital Group

Kathryn Ruemmler
Former White House Counsel
Partner, Latham & Watkins LLP

Gene Smith
Sr. Vice President and Wolfe Foundation Endowed Athletics Director
Ohio State University

John Thompson III
Board of Directors
National Association of Basketball Coaches
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth."
— Plato

Aughnanure

Here's a decent breakdown from Matt Norlander: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/commission-on-college-basketball-proposes-major-changes-to-ncaa-to-fix-the-sports-problems/

On a related note, I listened to this podcast recently with Yahoo! Sports Dan Wetzel and one of his three fixes to college hoops was particularly interesting. Basically allow drafted players to return to school, much like the way the Spurs and others stock talent overseas (i.e., Popovich thinks it would be good for you to stay and get coached by Bill Self for another year) and retain rights to players. This is how it apparently works in Hockey.

https://omny.fm/shows/the-program/dan-wetzel-1
“All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” - T.E. Lawrence

WarriorDad

"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth."
— Plato

GGGG

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 25, 2018, 09:07:38 AM
Those interested in who are the members of the committee.  Emmert and Peterson were not allowed to participate in executive meetings with the committee which occurred roughly 70% of the time, in part to keep them at arm's length in the process.


Dr. Condoleezza Rice (chair)
Former Provost, Stanford University
66th U.S. Secretary of State

Mary Sue Coleman
President
Association of American Universities (AAU)

General Martin E. Dempsey, U.S. Army, Retired
Chairman
USA Basketball

Mark Emmert (ex officio)
President
National Collegiate Athletic Association

Jeremy Foley
Athletics Director Emeritus
University of Florida Athletic Association

Jeffrey A. Hathaway
Vice President/Director of Athletics
Hofstra University

Grant Hill
Owner/Vice Chairman
Atlanta Hawks

Rev. John I. Jenkins, C.S.C.
President
University of Notre Dame

Mike Montgomery
Retired Basketball Coach
Analyst, Pac-12 Networks and Westwood One Sports

G.P. "Bud" Peterson (ex officio)
President, Georgia Institute of Technology
Chair, NCAA Board of Governors

David Robinson
Founder
Admiral Capital Group

Kathryn Ruemmler
Former White House Counsel
Partner, Latham & Watkins LLP

Gene Smith
Sr. Vice President and Wolfe Foundation Endowed Athletics Director
Ohio State University

John Thompson III
Board of Directors
National Association of Basketball Coaches


Is this supposed to be impressive?

Nukem2

Quote from: #bansultan on April 25, 2018, 09:20:27 AM

Is this supposed to be impressive?
It is an impressive list, but what do they really offer for the topic at hand other than JTIII.......

WarriorDad

Directly from the report on pages 3-5


A. Separate The Collegiate Track From The Professional Track By
Ending One-And-Done.


The Commission calls on the National Basketball Association (NBA) and the National Basketball Players Association (NBPA) again to make 18-year-olds eligible for the NBA draft, so that high school players who are drafted may proceed to the NBA. The NCAA lacks the legal power to change one-and-done on its own; the power to make this change lies exclusively with the NBA and the
NBPA.

The one-and-done regime may have provided some benefits for the NBA and the NCAA in the past, but all stakeholders agree that the downsides now outweigh any benefits. One-and-done has played a significant role in corrupting and destabilizing college basketball, restricting the freedom of choice of players, and undermining the relationship of college basketball to the mission of higher education. Elite high school players with NBA prospects and no interest in a college degree should not be "forced" to attend college, often for less than a year.

These uniquely talented players are the focus of agents, apparel companies, investment advisors, college coaches and others seeking to profit from their skills and offering them cash and other benefits in hope of future gain. If they are allowed to turn professional, some of the pressure on the collegiate model will be reduced. Moreover, the recent commitment of the NBA to improve the G League may enhance its appeal as a professional option for elite players who are 18 and do not wish to attend college.

The Commission seriously considered, but is not recommending, the NBA's and NBPA's adoption of a version of the "baseball rule" which would make student-athletes who attend college ineligible for the draft or the G League for two or three years. By requiring students who choose the collegiate path to make a long-term commitment to their education, the baseball rule increases the number of student-athletes who ultimately earn degrees. However, it would also keep collegiate players ready for the NBA in school against their will, where they will be potentially disgruntled magnets for corrupt money and the undermining of the collegiate model. Players with professional earning power should be able to choose a professional path.

The Commission's additional recommendations will make it easier for them to return and complete their degrees. The Commission is concerned about one unintended consequence of ending one-and-done, specifically the potential abuse of the NCAA's current practice of granting immediate collegiate eligibility to high school players who "reclassify"— i.e., those who make themselves eligible to enter college prior to the graduation date of their high school class. We fear that, should the NBA and the NBPA make 18 the minimum age for entry into the NBA, the growing trend of reclassification will accelerate, creating a new generation of 17-year-old one-and-done players.

The Commission urges the NCAA to monitor this situation and to enact appropriate rule changes if that potential abuse occurs with the end of one-and done. We must emphasize that only the NBA and the NBPA can change the oneand-done rule. If they choose not to do so by the end of 2018, the NCAA must still find a way to address this situation. In that circumstance, the Commission will
reconvene and consider the other tools at its disposal. These could range from the baseball rule, to freshman ineligibility, to "locking up" scholarships for three or four years if the recipient leaves the program for the NBA after a single year. That would be a disincentive to recruit an athlete for a one-year run at the title. In short, the current situation is untenable.
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth."
— Plato

TSmith34, Inc.

If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

WarriorDad

Quote from: #bansultan on April 25, 2018, 09:06:02 AM

No, I am a "let the players profit off their own likeness" guy.



Some of their recommendations are smart.  Like allowing undrafted players to return to school.  Many of them are dumb.

Profit which will be a back door for payment.

I guess this committee of experts in academia and basketball don't know what they are talking about or are just dumb.  Feel free to ignore their recommendations I guess. 

Not all of their suggestions do I agree with, but the most important principle to keep college basketball as an amateur endeavor is key for me.  There are plenty of professional options out there, the NCAA isn't here to be a professional league nor should it.  Commend the committee for that key point in my view.
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth."
— Plato

oldwarrior81

Quote from: Aughnanure on April 25, 2018, 09:09:18 AM
On a related note, I listened to this podcast recently with Yahoo! Sports Dan Wetzel and one of his three fixes to college hoops was particularly interesting. Basically allow drafted players to return to school, much like the way the Spurs and others stock talent overseas (i.e., Popovich thinks it would be good for you to stay and get coached by Bill Self for another year) and retain rights to players. This is how it apparently works in Hockey.

The NBA had something similar years ago, although it was based on draft eligibility being triggered after 4 years out of high school.
The Celtics drafted Larry Bird 6th as a draft eligible after his junior season in 1978.  He obviously returned to Indiana State for his senior season and the Celtics held his rights until the draft the following season.  If he didn't sign before the next draft, he would be put back into the draft for any team to select.  Baseball still does something similar.

The Pacers were one of the five teams that passed on Bird, going with the sure thing signing of Rick Robey.  They weren't willing to risk not signing the hometown hero in Bird and wasting a first round pick.

I think Kyle Macy was also picked under this rule with Phoenix drafting him before his senior season in Kentucky.




GGGG

Quote from: Nukem2 on April 25, 2018, 09:32:09 AM
It is an impressive list, but what do they really offer for the topic at hand other than JTIII.......


Well yeah that's what I mean.  It looks like just a bunch of names to fill out the letterhead and not an actual working group that could solve the issues at hand.

GGGG

Quote from: WarriorDad on April 25, 2018, 09:39:15 AM
Profit which will be a back door for payment.


Actually it would be a front door.  And that's fine.



Hards Alumni

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/989127862044299265

doot doot

The NBA and NBPA conversations on eliminating the one-and-done draft   rule -- which would allow high school seniors to enter the NBA -- are   centered on the 2020 Draft as the earliest possible date for change, league sources tell ESPN.

Dr. Blackheart


IrwinFletcher

Quote from: oldwarrior81 on April 25, 2018, 09:48:34 AM
The NBA had something similar years ago, although it was based on draft eligibility being triggered after 4 years out of high school.
The Celtics drafted Larry Bird 6th as a draft eligible after his junior season in 1978.  He obviously returned to Indiana State for his senior season and the Celtics held his rights until the draft the following season.  If he didn't sign before the next draft, he would be put back into the draft for any team to select.  Baseball still does something similar.

The Pacers were one of the five teams that passed on Bird, going with the sure thing signing of Rick Robey.  They weren't willing to risk not signing the hometown hero in Bird and wasting a first round pick.

I think Kyle Macy was also picked under this rule with Phoenix drafting him before his senior season in Kentucky.

Not completely accurate. The window to sign is very short, something around 4-6 weeks.

But the mlb draft is a different scenario with set $ amounts teams can use which directly affects where guys are drafted.

GooooMarquette


MU82

Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 25, 2018, 10:46:13 AM
Yes, it looks like it very well may happen.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2772448-report-nba-nbpa-targeting-2020-nba-draft-for-end-of-1-and-done-rule?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Woj's report might have come on the heels of this commission's recommendations, but Silver has said numerous times over the last many months that he favors elimination of 1-and-done. Said it several times before the commission released one word.

We'll see if the league and the players can agree. I think they can because the NBA and NCAA, which once were in cahoots pushing for a two-year college requirement, now seem to be acknowledging that the only alternative to 1-and-done that the players will accept is immediate eligibility after HS.

There was just about 0% chance the union ever would have agreed to any rule that required players to stay in college for 2 years -- at least not without demanding a major financial kickback that the owners would never give.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

dgies9156

Some thoughts:

1) If the Presidents really wanted to get tough, they would tell universities to award four-year scholarships. You recruit someone and the scholarship is gone for four years. If the student/athlete transfers to another university, the scholarship is "rested" for a year, just as transferring recruits have to sit out a year. This would end "one-and-dones" now.

2) The notion of cheaters being banned forever is absurd on its face. North Carolina cheated by offering sham courses. Does anyone really expect Roy Williams/Dean Smith or others to be gone forever? Look at Bruce Pearl. After a period of contrition and penance, he is back, at Auburn. Yeah, right. I'll believe this one when Penn State, Louisville etc., all get the Death Penalty.

3) The NCAA can't run college basketball. What makes them think they can run recruiting events. I can hardly wait for Nike, Addidas etc., to file anti-trust suits.

No, this committee is about reforming basketball to maximize NCAA and member institution power and economic return. I don't fault them for trying to do that, but geez, let's be honest about it.


muwarrior69

So can a HS basketball player tryout for the NBA, not make it, still be eligible for a college scholarship?

Babybluejeans

Recommendations from Condoleezza Rice have not turned out well historically.

Boozemon Barro

Let's ignore the glaring underlying issue and try to fix the amateur system that's already broken beyond repair.

79Warrior