20-7

[TSmith34, Inc.]

This post is funny, because I've been thinking the same thing for a month now, but thought I was maybe the only one who thought Hauser is maybe the most unique MU player I've seen. In my opinion, he's far and away the most valuable player on this year's squad. From an eye test standpoint, he's the most efficient MU player I've seen. When MU started putting him just outside the post and running the offense through him there, I thought it was the best MU's offense looked all season. He creates match up problems, draws in defense, and he can pass. If anything, I'd like to see Hauser continue to work on his footwork and post play.

I'd also shut him down now, I'm completely comfortable with whatever MU's fate is in the NIT, I'd rather see Hauser healthy for the summer.

There was a good reason that Sam lead the team in minutes as a freshman on a team with three senior starters.

[lurch91]

Several Scoopers love them some KO, and I don't blame them. And yet, he did not accomplish any more in his coaching career through 4 years than Wojo has. And then he left us.

Not to nitpick, but KO made back to back NCAA Tournaments, which included a run to the S16.  Which Marquette hadn't seen in 10+ years.

I like Wojo, I see the foundation, just need to give him a little time to put it all together.

[Marcus92]

MU basketball discussions are like are arguing religion and politics.

This is true of sports in general. I don't know for a fact what Sam or the team will look like next year. Nobody else does, either. Even coaches and scouts can disagree on who's the best player or what's the right in-game strategy. The only certainty is the final score.

As a fan of college basketball, I come here to share what I observe and read what others think. It's not that hard to assess the very best players and teams. Where Marquette stands right now is murkier. The results on the court say we're a mediocre team. Can we do better with most of this roster returning? If so, how much better? I'm interested in different perspectives. And I don't think throwing around terms like "idiotic" or "delusional" add anything worthwhile.

Players like Markus and Sam can be unusually difficult to evaluate. They aren't going to blow anyone away with their size, athleticism or quickness. But that's not always required for success in college basketball, if you have the right combination of skills (shooting being a pretty important one) and approach to the game.

Take Davante Gardner, for instance. One of the least athletic players to ever wear a Marquette uniform, but an offensive scoring and rebounding force nonetheless. Knew how to establish position, great hands, impressive shooting touch and strong as a bull. A very effective player with the right pieces around him. Tyler Hansbrough and Scott McDermott come to mind as two other examples.

I know that I'm an optimist and try to temper my posts with that in mind, backing up any assertions with specific examples or stats where possible. I'm not overly concerned about convincing anyone; I approach MUScoop as a forum for discussion (exchange of ideas) rather than argument (I win vs. you win). Honestly, what's there to win?

[Dish]

Cool. Educate me.

Sam shot .480 from 3 and .514 from 2 in his 2 seasons at Marquette compared to Novak's .456 and .383.

Plus Sam had a better eFG% as a sophomore than Novak did. Roughly the same eFG% over 2 years.

I do like to learn, so I'll be interested in "proof" that Novak was a better shooter.

And I'm REALLY interested in learning how a sophomore Novak was anywhere close to being as good a player as the sophomore Sam.

Me too, I'm REALLY interested in that as well. If you can find the poster that said that, let me know, I'd love to DM him or her about that and have a chat. If they have a newsletter I can subscribe to, even better.

Their eFG% is within .1% of each other for their first two seasons. Also through 2 seasons, Novak's true shooting % was 67%, Hauser 65.4%.

I 100% stand by what I said, Hauser is the most unique MU player I've ever seen. I don't know if you just glazed over my initial post or what on Hauser, but go have a St. Paddy's day cocktail and cool down man.

[rocket surgeon]

Theo has some real potential to become a "man-child".  With a little more weight training, some agility/foot work to help control his body, read foul issues, he has the tools to becoming a pretty decent force inside.  The key to his development will be diminishing his fouls.  His offense will come as a result of his positioning  We are going to need a banger inside-preventing the 2nd shot on D and giving us 2nd and 3rd chances on the O-boards.  Kind of a hybrid of al's aircraft carrier and strong forward type

[MU82]

MU82

IMO, Sam is heads and shoulders a better player than Novak based on first two years performance. I do not think it is even close. That said, I believe Novak was hands down the greatest shooter in MU history and by a fairly wide margin.

I simply haven't seen the stats to support that Novak was a better shooter than Sam - let alone "by a fairly wide margin."

Heck, I just looked up Markus' stats to compare, and it's close there, too.

And believe me, I really liked Novak.

[MU82]

Not to nitpick, but KO made back to back NCAA Tournaments, which included a run to the S16.  Which Marquette hadn't seen in 10+ years.

I like Wojo, I see the foundation, just need to give him a little time to put it all together.

I didn't say what I meant to say in that first post, and when somebody reminded me of KO's 5th season, I offered this response (it's on the 5th page of this thread):

I meant he left after his fifth season. The Miller Game vs. Kentucky opened the door for KO, who was looking to jump ship at the first available opportunity. He was the first to regard MU as a stepping-stone job.

Like you, Goose, I know and like KO. And I appreciate what he did. But 4 years in, he produced one NCAA tournament appearance. We have debated before who had the more difficult task coming in, and I don't want to get into it again. But facts are facts. Four years, one NCAA tournament game defeat.

Let's see if Wojo's fifth year can be as successful - or even moreso - than KO's. I hope you're rooting for it. I sure as hell am.

[lurch91]

MU82

Np, this thread is way out of hand and I'll be honest, I skipped some posts. 

[Floorslapper]

I didn't say what I meant to say in that first post, and when somebody reminded me of KO's 5th season, I offered this response (it's on the 5th page of this thread):

I meant he left after his fifth season. The Miller Game vs. Kentucky opened the door for KO, who was looking to jump ship at the first available opportunity. He was the first to regard MU as a stepping-stone job.

Like you, Goose, I know and like KO. And I appreciate what he did. But 4 years in, he produced one NCAA tournament appearance. We have debated before who had the more difficult task coming in, and I don't want to get into it again. But facts are facts. Four years, one NCAA tournament game defeat.

Let's see if Wojo's fifth year can be as successful - or even moreso - than KO's. I hope you're rooting for it. I sure as hell am.

There is absolutely zero freaking debate as to who had the harder task walking in the door, Kevin O'Neill, or Wojo.  ZERO. 

[Marcus92]

There is absolutely zero freaking debate as to who had the harder task walking in the door, Kevin O'Neill, or Wojo.  ZERO.

So you both agree. No need to debate this again.

[Floorslapper]

So you both agree. No need to debate this again.

Ahh no.  We don't agree.  82 believes Wojo had the more difficult task, than did KO.

[WarriorDad]

There is absolutely zero freaking debate as to who had the harder task walking in the door, Kevin O'Neill, or Wojo.  ZERO.

If people are debating it, that would mean the zero reference isn't true.

Wojo has to compete in a top 3 conference where this year we had to play #1 seeds FIVE TIMES.  There is no mercy in this league.  Also competing against Wisconsin for in state talent while they were on a 19 year NCAA streak including back to back Final Fours barely missing a national title.  Aging arena to play in.

However, the budget is there, facilities better.


O'Neill competed in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference and then the Great Midwest during a time where Wisconsin was not good, hadn't gone to the NCAA tournament for 54 years. Much easier to get in state talent, which he did.  Brand new arena to play in.

However, the budget wasn't there and practice facilities terrible. 


Zero debate is not accurate.  There are arguments for and against.  We like to take swipes at former MU coaches here it seems for not losing to Alabama last night, or not taking Indiana to a Final Four, but if we look at O'Neill's post Marquette NCAA career it is pretty bad.  All three seasons at Tennessee were losing records.  Two of three at Northwestern losing seasons.  USC was terrible after his second year with two straight years of under 10 wins.  His one year at Arizona they had to vacate all their wins.

[Marcus92]

Ahh no.  We don't agree.  82 believes Wojo had the more difficult task, than did KO.

82 said: "I don't want to get into this again." You said: "There is absolutely zero freaking debate." Perfectly clear. No need for debate.

[MU82]

You see, Ners played high school basketball. So there's absolutely no debate - ZERO - that he knows more about the sport than the rest of us do.

It's automatic. Putting on a HS basketball uniform = basketball savant. Period.

The faster the rest of us accept that Ners' opinions aren't just opinions but facts, the faster we can all just cede this site to him. He can debate himself on every subject - wouldn't that be fascinating to read?!?!

It would be like getting to see John Wooden debate Dean Smith ... though I'll apologize to Ners right now for comparing those know-nothing losers to him.

I mean, facts are facts, you can't debate facts, and Ners has all the best facts!

[Newsdreams]

You see, Ners played high school basketball. So there's absolutely no debate - ZERO - that he knows more about the sport than the rest of us do.

It's automatic. Putting on a HS basketball uniform = basketball savant. Period.

The faster the rest of us accept that Ners' opinions aren't just opinions but facts, the faster we can all just cede this site to him. He can debate himself on every subject - wouldn't that be fascinating to read?!?!

It would be like getting to see John Wooden debate Dean Smith ... though I'll apologize to Ners right now for comparing those know-nothing losers to him.

I mean, facts are facts, you can't debate facts, and Ners has all the best facts!

Plus he could dunk!

[Floorslapper]

You see, Ners played high school basketball. So there's absolutely no debate - ZERO - that he knows more about the sport than the rest of us do.

It's automatic. Putting on a HS basketball uniform = basketball savant. Period.

The faster the rest of us accept that Ners' opinions aren't just opinions but facts, the faster we can all just cede this site to him. He can debate himself on every subject - wouldn't that be fascinating to read?!?!

It would be like getting to see John Wooden debate Dean Smith ... though I'll apologize to Ners right now for comparing those know-nothing losers to him.

I mean, facts are facts, you can't debate facts, and Ners has all the best facts!

You need some new material 82.

Plus he could dunk!

How many times do you think you've made this "joke?"  Over/Under set at 15.  Let's get some new material Newsie.

As for 82 - He made a dumb point.  Trying to suggest Wojo and Kevin O'Neill walked into similar situations.  Look, support Wojo, be an absolute apologist, like 82, but, let's not exaggerate and be silly. 

Recruiting to the Old Gym, the Midwest Collegiate Conference, coming off the train wreck of Bob Dukiet, as compared to the Al McGuire Center, The Big East, and highly successful 15 year run of Crean and Buzz?  That's absurd.

[Newsdreams]

You need some new material 82.

How many times do you think you've made this "joke?"  Over/Under set at 15.  Let's get some new material Newsie.

As for 82 - He made a dumb point.  Trying to suggest Wojo and Kevin O'Neill walked into similar situations.  Look, support Wojo, be an absolute apologist, like 82, but, let's not exaggerate and be silly. 

Recruiting to the Old Gym, the Midwest Collegiate Conference, coming off the train wreck of Bob Dukiet, as compared to the Al McGuire Center, The Big East, and highly successful 15 year run of Crean and Buzz?  That's absurd.

Your dunking is good material! I couldn't dunk but spent 2-3 hours at rec center, a homeless (much worse than poors man) type Markus

[Floorslapper]

Your dunking is good material! I couldn't dunk but spent 2-3 hours at rec center, a homeless (much worse than poors man) type Markus

Solid.

You'd likely beat me in a game of horse.  My 3-ball was and to this day, is, inconsistent.  Game was predicated on getting to the basket.  Not quite as effective now in my 40s.

[MU82]

You need some new material 82.

How many times do you think you've made this "joke?"  Over/Under set at 15.  Let's get some new material Newsie.

As for 82 - He made a dumb point.  Trying to suggest Wojo and Kevin O'Neill walked into similar situations.  Look, support Wojo, be an absolute apologist, like 82, but, let's not exaggerate and be silly. 

Recruiting to the Old Gym, the Midwest Collegiate Conference, coming off the train wreck of Bob Dukiet, as compared to the Al McGuire Center, The Big East, and highly successful 15 year run of Crean and Buzz?  That's absurd.

Ners, we're just two guys with opinions. That's all. The difference between us is that, no matter the subject, you always state yours as if it's incontrovertible fact.

I said I didn't want to get into this debate because it's been done a bazillion times here, including a couple times while you were banned. But sure, before you get banned again, I'll go ...

Who among the players Wojo inherited were equivalent to Tony Smith (one of the top 10 scorers in school history, and just a good all-around player) and Trevor Powell (15 pts, 6 rebs in Dukiet's last year)?

Derrick? Juan? JJJ? Taylor?

Oh wait ... I know ... the great Deonte Burton and John Dawson!

(BTW, I obviously have superior basketball intellect because I've been a high school and middle school basketball coach for 7 years now. See, that's all the proof anybody should need.)

[GGGG]

Ners, we're just two guys with opinions. That's all. The difference between us is that, no matter the subject, you always state yours as if it's incontrovertible fact.

I said I didn't want to get into this debate because it's been done a bazillion times here, including a couple times while you were banned. But sure, before you get banned again, I'll go ...

Who among the players Wojo inherited were equivalent to Tony Smith (one of the top 10 scorers in school history, and just a good all-around player) and Trevor Powell (15 pts, 6 rebs in Dukiet's last year)?

Derrick? Juan? JJJ? Taylor?

Oh wait ... I know ... the great Deonte Burton and John Dawson!

(BTW, I obviously have superior basketball intellect because I've been a high school and middle school basketball coach for 7 years now. See, that's all the proof anybody should need.)

KO may have inherited some better players, but the program itself was a disaster when he came on board.  It's not even close that from a program point of view, Wojo inherited one in a much better shape.

[Nukem2]

KO may have inherited some better players, but the program itself was a disaster when he came on board.  It's not even close that from a program point of view, Wojo inherited one in a much better shape.

But not from a personnel stand point.  Yes, Deonte was there for Wojo   But, Deonte's mind was elsewhere due to his Mom.  Everything else was in flux.  Not talking about program $$ here.

[GGGG]

But not from a personnel stand point.  Yes, Deonte was there for Wojo   But, Deonte's mind was elsewhere due to his Mom.  Everything else was in flux.  Not talking about program $$ here.

Right.  Which is why KO got them into the NIT in year one.  But his second year, they were a disaster.

[Floorslapper]

But not from a personnel stand point.  Yes, Deonte was there for Wojo   But, Deonte's mind was elsewhere due to his Mom.  Everything else was in flux.  Not talking about program $$ here.

JJJ was there.  Duane was there.  Luke was there.  Steve Taylor was there.  A winning tradition was there, the best tradition since the days of Al, preceded Wojo.  O'Neill arrived in the shadows of Dukiet.  Not to mention the Al McGuire Center being present on Wojo's arrival.

So K.O. had Tony Smith and Trevor Powell for 1 year, outside of that?  What other "advantages" did K.O. have over Wojo?

[MU82]

So K.O. had Tony Smith and Trevor Powell

Thanks for agreeing with me!

Not gonna do this for the 15th time, definitely not with you.

[Floorslapper]

Thanks for agreeing with me!

Not gonna do this for the 15th time, definitely not with you.

I'm sorry to hear you wasted your time, 14 times trying to argue that KO and Wojo's tasks at hand upon arrival were comparable! No need for a 15th. It's a not even a debatable topic.