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Author Topic: USC PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!  (Read 5337 times)

WarriorDad

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2018, 09:36:20 AM »
If I am a legit NBA prospect, I am not playing in the NIT either.

By the way, this thread title is wildly misleading. Makes it seem like Marquette is doing this.

Should they not participate in Summer league pickup games, too? 
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CTWarrior

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2018, 09:40:50 AM »
The problem is the "compensation package" isn't really compensation for someone who's there to play ball and leave. That's why calling it "compensation" is misleading. Schools benefit enormously from those players and perhaps the players do too, but not because of the schollies. To the contrary, the value of free tuition is pretty much worthless to a player going early to the League.

The "compensation" is only "not compensation" if you choose not to take advantage of it.  If you don't want an education because you're going to the NBA go play in Europe for a few Euros to get ready.  If you go to college, honor your commitment, especially when there is no real risk to it.  Like I said earlier, I understand it more with football because of the inherent dangers of the sport coupled with the relatively short career even for great players.

Basically, the NBA should take high schools kids and let them play in the G League until they're ready and those that choose college should honor their commitment.
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#bansultan

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2018, 09:46:40 AM »
The point is you are a teammate, and your team is still playing and trying to win a championship. To walk away from your team--even if for explicable reasons--is selfish and a disservice to your team and teammates.

I think most teammates would support their decision.
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mu03eng

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2018, 09:47:19 AM »
People's desire to be entertained is why they have a scholarship in the first place.  It is literally why they are able to be there.  They aren't cheap labor.  Their compensation package is worth conservatively $80K/year, which is way more than a minor leaguer would get (which is what they are).  There is basically no additional risk to playing in the NIT.  If it is OK to skip the NIT why isn't it OK to skip the NCAA tournament?

Of course there is additional risk to playing in the NIT, for sure it's not any more risky than normal, but career ending or even season ending(which could cost you the next season) injuries are possible.

If they want to skip the NCAA tournament I wouldn't have an issue with that either. Since both tournaments are not universal (not all teams participate) I don't consider it as part of the standard compensation package that comes with a scholarship. A player, unless a sure fire NBA top 15 pick would be silly to skip the NCAA as there are all sorts of opportunities to really raise their draft profile with a deep run in the NCAA.

And yes they are cheap labor relative to the revenue they generate for the big time programs (for the not big time programs this isn't true of course).
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mu03eng

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2018, 09:48:53 AM »
Should they not participate in Summer league pickup games, too?

Different things, Summer League games can increase your visibility with the NBA....NIT most likely will not because everyone is watching/scouting the NCAA tournament.
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mug644

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2018, 09:49:24 AM »
If I am a legit NBA prospect, I am not playing in the NIT either.

By the way, this thread title is wildly misleading. Makes it seem like Marquette is doing this.

That's called clickbait. It works. And I immediately linked the article and made reference to USC.

tower912

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2018, 09:50:13 AM »
Thought I saw that Louisville took a vote whether to participate in the NIT.     I agree with the notion that underclassmen coming back get extra reps and game situations, seniors not going to the league get extra games, but anyone knowing they will be in the league a year from now.....meh.   
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mug644

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2018, 09:50:32 AM »
I think most teammates would support their decision.

Perhaps publicly, but perhaps not privately.

Badgerhater

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2018, 09:50:47 AM »
The problem is the "compensation package" isn't really compensation for someone who's there to play ball and leave. That's why calling it "compensation" is misleading. Schools benefit enormously from those players and perhaps the players do too, but not because of the schollies. To the contrary, the value of free tuition is pretty much worthless to a player going early to the League.

Everyone makes tons of money off some kids with scholarships -- nevermind that the school will send them across the country to play a 9:00 Wednesday game on TV (so everyone else can make money) on the other side of the country and then fly them back in the early AM, then they are expected to be in class the next morning.   

Every major D-1 sport is about making money, not educating the athletes.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2018, 09:52:46 AM »
Should they not participate in Summer league pickup games, too?

The Summer League is tied in the NBA, the NIT is not.  Blow out your knee playing in the NIT and that just potentially cost you million of dollars, and maybe even your NBA career.  Not worth it.

That's called clickbait. It works. And I immediately linked the article and made reference to USC.

Yah, it is misleading. 
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#UnleashTravis

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Re: USC PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2018, 10:11:04 AM »
Any player with asperations to play at the next level can skip the NIT if they want. Your not building your profile by droppng 45 points on Harvard or UNC Asheville. No one will remember the block, the drive, and the buzzer beater in a single play that would live on forever had it been in the NCAA tournament.

Look guys I know we are all super excited about the NIT now that we are in it, but lets not kid ourselves. It's a tournament for the sake of a post season play for high major teams. It can be skipped if the players want.


PS: Are we really giving grief to a single player when we as a university skipped the nit once?

Eldon

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2018, 10:21:14 AM »
Different things, Summer League games can increase your visibility with the NBA....NIT most likely will not because everyone is watching/scouting the NCAA tournament.

Not only that, but some coaches experiment in the NIT, e.g., starting their freshmen, etc.  It's effectively like preseason NFL football.  Simply put, I'd wager that the NIT has close to zero scouting value. 

MU82

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2018, 10:24:57 AM »
As a scout, I would be unimpressed.

This also was cited by several Scoopers in regards to the football guys. And then a bunch of them were drafted high in the first round.

GMs/coaches draft for potential. If a guy is a stud, he is a stud. Sitting out didn't hurt Fournette's "draftability" one iota. Meanwhile, getting hurt in a meaningless bowl game cost Michigan's Jake Butt millions of dollars.

The best argument against what these USC guys are doing, IMHO, is that college kids play pickup ball constantly, and it's hard to believe these USC guys won't be doing the same. As opposed to football - I mean, I doubt Fournette was playing pickup football in the yard.

Given the choice, I'd feel better about my chances of staying healthy playing in a controlled environment with trainers present - like the NIT - vs pickup ball with my buddies.

But it's not my choice, it's the kid's choice. I support it fully.
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Pakuni

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2018, 10:35:09 AM »
Should they not participate in Summer league pickup games, too?

Are you talking about summer leagues like The Drew and Rucker, or the NBA Summer League? Two very different things.

But either way, participating in something like The Drew is voluntary, so it's a bad analogy.

CTWarrior

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2018, 10:42:33 AM »
Of course there is additional risk to playing in the NIT, for sure it's not any more risky than normal, but career ending or even season ending(which could cost you the next season) injuries are possible.

If they weren't playing in the NIT they'd be working out or doing drills or practicing or playing in scrimmages, where the risk of injury is the same.  That's why I don't think it is particularly risky, unlike football, where they are not getting hit several dozen times by 300 pound behemoths if they're not playing.
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Pakuni

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2018, 10:44:48 AM »
If they weren't playing in the NIT they'd be working out or doing drills or practicing or playing in scrimmages, where the risk of injury is the same. 

Do we know this to be true?
Not say it is or isn't, but I wonder whether this made several times here is accurate.

mug644

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2018, 10:56:41 AM »
This also was cited by several Scoopers in regards to the football guys. And then a bunch of them were drafted high in the first round.

GMs/coaches draft for potential. If a guy is a stud, he is a stud. Sitting out didn't hurt Fournette's "draftability" one iota. Meanwhile, getting hurt in a meaningless bowl game cost Michigan's Jake Butt millions of dollars.

The best argument against what these USC guys are doing, IMHO, is that college kids play pickup ball constantly, and it's hard to believe these USC guys won't be doing the same. As opposed to football - I mean, I doubt Fournette was playing pickup football in the yard.

Given the choice, I'd feel better about my chances of staying healthy playing in a controlled environment with trainers present - like the NIT - vs pickup ball with my buddies.

But it's not my choice, it's the kid's choice. I support it fully.

As a scout, I'd be unimpressed, not because I wouldn't have one more chance to see the guy play, but because it tells me something about his character. That he's willing to put himself before his team.

I understand the logic. I disagree with the choice.

Others see it differently, and so it goes.

MUBurrow

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2018, 10:59:33 AM »
As a scout, I'd be unimpressed, not because I wouldn't have one more chance to see the guy play, but because it tells me something about his character. That he's willing to put himself before his team.


As the scout of a professional team, you would be unimpressed by a player's motivation to look out for himself professionally?

Babybluejeans

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2018, 11:00:25 AM »
The "compensation" is only "not compensation" if you choose not to take advantage of it.  If you don't want an education because you're going to the NBA go play in Europe for a few Euros to get ready.  If you go to college, honor your commitment, especially when there is no real risk to it.  Like I said earlier, I understand it more with football because of the inherent dangers of the sport coupled with the relatively short career even for great players.

Basically, the NBA should take high schools kids and let them play in the G League until they're ready and those that choose college should honor their commitment.

Others have said it but it's an important point: the logic above relies on the premise that a school's intent in offering a scholarship to a top player is to provide an education. But of course it isn't. Schools offer scholarships because that player can play basketball really, really well. So well, in fact, that people will come and pay money to see the team play, and networks will pay money to watch them on TV, etc. The program will (ideally) succeed because of that player. And the player gets exposure as a result. It's a business arrangement on both sides. Perhaps this USC kid should honor a commitment to his teammates - a decision that we, tapping away on our phones in random cities, have no real input on.

But commitment to the school has nothing to do with it.

mug644

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2018, 11:01:10 AM »
As the scout of a professional team, you would be unimpressed by a player's motivation to look out for himself professionally?

Different ways to look at the same thing. Neither perspective is any more correct than the other.

MUBurrow

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2018, 11:03:35 AM »
Different ways to look at the same thing. Neither perspective is any more correct than the other.

Respectfully disagree.

Babybluejeans

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2018, 11:04:53 AM »
Different ways to look at the same thing. Neither perspective is any more correct than the other.

That's not really true. On one side you have hundreds of athletes making these kinds of professionally self-interested choices all the time, seemingly without consequence. On the other side...when have you seen a franchise hold it against a player for watching out for his professional well-being?

BallBoy

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2018, 11:15:15 AM »
It's exactly like college football in that it's completely appropriate for the players to decide what they will and will not risk their bodies and livelihoods for.

If Rowsey was 6'2 and had an NBA future, I don't think pursuing an NIT championship is worth the risk.

I think not playing is a big risk to the players NBA potential and draft standing.  The teams are looking for every reason to either draft or not draft a player.  In many there is an innate desire to win and it doesn't matter at what.  In a league that only the best of the best of the best play, any reason that causes pause will negatively impact a player.  Does he have the desire? Is he only going to show for big games?  What if he doesn't get his way?  Will he sit out because he wants more?  Players need to prove they are elite in all aspects and not playing brings questions.  We will see how far (if at all his stock drops) if he doesn't play.

mug644

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2018, 11:17:39 AM »
Respectfully disagree.

Fair enough.

That's not really true. On one side you have hundreds of athletes making these kinds of professionally self-interested choices all the time, seemingly without consequence. On the other side...when have you seen a franchise hold it against a player for watching out for his professional well-being?

Respectfully disagree.

Pakuni

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Re: PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2018, 11:22:03 AM »
I think not playing is a big risk to the players NBA potential and draft standing.  The teams are looking for every reason to either draft or not draft a player.  In many there is an innate desire to win and it doesn't matter at what.  In a league that only the best of the best of the best play, any reason that causes pause will negatively impact a player.  Does he have the desire? Is he only going to show for big games?  What if he doesn't get his way?  Will he sit out because he wants more?  Players need to prove they are elite in all aspects and not playing brings questions.  We will see how far (if at all his stock drops) if he doesn't play.

As MU82 pointed out earlier, the exact same things were said of Leonard Fournette and Christian McCaffery when they skipped out on bowl games. It didn't hurt them at all.