USC PLAYERS choosing not to play in NIT?!

[WarriorDad]

The Summer League is tied in the NBA, the NIT is not.  Blow out your knee playing in the NIT and that just potentially cost you million of dollars, and maybe even your NBA career.  Not worth it.

I'm not talking about Summer League, I'm talking about pickup games to stay in shape, play with other guys but not officially sanctioned.  Should these guys walk on so many eggshells as not to potentially get hurt? 

[BallBoy]

So the regular season means literally nothing at this point?

What does the regular season mean after losing in the first round of the NCAA tournament?  Nothing.  All you are doing is making the conference tourney the first few rounds of the NCAA tournament. 

[TheGym]

A championship.

This!!  And don't call the NIT winner the champion.  It is the loser's bracket winner.

[Pakuni]

I'm not talking about Summer League, I'm talking about pickup games to stay in shape, play with other guys but not officially sanctioned.  Should these guys walk on so many eggshells as not to potentially get hurt?

Participation in such games is voluntary, so the analogy fails. If players believe they're unnecessarily risk injury by participating in those events, they're free to skip them.
Also, those players have guaranteed contracts, so if they get hurt, they're still getting paid. Not comparable to a player heading into the draft from college.

[oldwarrior81]

Just an idea - Please don't shoot the messenger !

What if the Power 7 (?) conferences were not eligible for the NIT.  Earn an NCAA bid or bust.
Invite only teams from the lesser conferences that have very good records to the NIT.
There are enough teams with excellent records that play in the one bid conferences and some in the mid Majors that would relish the thought of playing in a post season tournament.

Many believe the big boys will eventually break away and exclude the lower D1 from the "Big Boy tourney. 
Football has the distinction between d1 levels.  Possibly the NIT evolves into the lower D1 championship?

I was looking at basketball attendance figures for last season and over 100 schools draw less for the entire season than Kentucky does for a single game.  UWM with a season total of less than 19,000, all the way down to South Carolina State with a yearly attendance total of 4406.

[GGGG]

I'm not talking about Summer League, I'm talking about pickup games to stay in shape, play with other guys but not officially sanctioned.  Should these guys walk on so many eggshells as not to potentially get hurt? 

I wouldn't be playing a lot of pick up ball between now and the NBA draft if I were a player.

[WarriorDad]

Of course it does.  There is nothing for a player to gain by playing in the NIT.  And there is a chance for player injury to occur.

Making silly comparisons to crossing a street notwithstanding.

I would not say nothing.  A chance to extend college career means something to some people, not everyone. Playing with your teammates. Chance to win a championship.  Maybe play in NYC for the first time.

There is always a chance for injury.  Why even have practices?  How many basketball injuries happen in practice vs games?  I'm going to guess more in practice due to the frequency, but we only see game injuries because they are on tv.

[naginiF]

How have so many replies been posted on this topic and i've not seen one blaming Enfield or Swann for this?  This is Enfield's 5th year - he has all his own players, lack of a cohesive team atmosphere rests solely on the coach and AD.  That is in addition to the shame they've personally brought to the University and, more importantly, its fans by not making the NCAA.

[BallBoy]

How is this similar to the European soccer model?  Right now, the top four European leagues get four guaranteed places in the Champions League group stages.

If anything, European soccer has become more like the NCAAs.  Reason?  Eyeballs.

As I said, it they want to expand the total number of teams from just the conference winners then do what the European leagues do which is cap the AQs.
European soccer ranks the leagues based on results from previous years.  They then allocate a cap to those leagues.  The team that qualify are the top 4 of the best leagues which pushes the leagues with multiple entrants to 16 leagues.  They don't wait until the start of the tournament to arbitrarily decide how many teams from each league get it. 

If you win your league you are in.  If you want to expand the NCAA do what Europe did and add caps to AQ and base the number on how the league performed.  Also give an AQ to the winner of the NIT like they do with the ELC. 

It won't happen because the Power Conferences will want as many teams as possible because it is all about the money.

[dgies9156]

Just an idea - Please don't shoot the messenger !

What if the Power 7 (?) conferences were not eligible for the NIT.  Earn an NCAA bid or bust.

Once upon a time, it was like this in some conferences. Until about 1970, the SEC and ACC generally forbade their teams from playing in anything other than the NCAA, which was limited to conference champions.

The SEC changed around 1970, when LSU went to the NIT.

[MU82]

That being said, it's 100% his prerogative whether his sits or plays, and I have no problem with anyone's decision to sit out.  But let's at least recognize the motivations for what they are, and not for what best suits your personal agenda.

This makes sense to me! Well done, Benny.

[GGGG]

As I said, it they want to expand the total number of teams from just the conference winners then do what the European leagues do which is cap the AQs.
European soccer ranks the leagues based on results from previous years.  They then allocate a cap to those leagues.  The team that qualify are the top 4 of the best leagues which pushes the leagues with multiple entrants to 16 leagues.  They don't wait until the start of the tournament to arbitrarily decide how many teams from each league get it. 

If you win your league you are in.  If you want to expand the NCAA do what Europe did and add caps to AQ and base the number on how the league performed.  Also give an AQ to the winner of the NIT like they do with the ELC. 

It won't happen because the Power Conferences will want as many teams as possible because it is all about the money.

Ah OK.  I get you know.  So something like this for 2018-19 based on this year's RPI:

Big 12 - 6
Big East - 6
ACC - 6
SEC - 6
Pac 12 - 5
Big 10 - 5
American - 4
Missouri Valley - 3
Mountain West - 2
A10 - 2
MAC - 2

21 other conferences - 1  (Southland, MEAC, SWAC and Atlantic Sun in play-in)


Not sure I agree with you because I see a lot of problems with this.

[GGGG]

By the way, I don't really mind the debate about who should get in and who shouldn't.  Really the "top five" schools left out all had plenty of opportunities to improve their resume - but didn't get it done.

[Benny B]

A championship.

Really?  How much does said championship pay?  Is the NCAA going to a Stanley Cup this year where every player's name goes on the trophy?  Will the Wikipedia page for the 2018 Tournament say "Champion - [Insert Players' Names]."  Championships are great for the school, but what does it do for the player? 

So on one hand you claim that sitting out the NIT is all about protecting one's own interests... then you go on to espouse that the benefit of the NCAA is the chance of a team accomplishment.

[For further reading on the subject, I suggest giving "Jenkins, Kris" a Google.  Not only did he win a championship, but he made the most memorable game-winning shot in a championship game ever.  Where's his $50M contract with Golden State?  He's playing in some basketball league that most people have never heard of... fat lot of good his "championship" did him, eh?]

tl;dr - Championships are not individual accomplishments, and in the NCAA, you're not compensated for winning one.  So again I'll ask, from a player's perspective, what does the NCAAT offer that the NIT doesn't?

[Eldon]

Really?  How much does said championship pay?  Is the NCAA going to a Stanley Cup this year where every player's name goes on the trophy?  Will the Wikipedia page for the 2018 Tournament say "Champion - [Insert Players' Names]."  Championships are great for the school, but what does it do for the player? 

So on one hand you claim that sitting out the NIT is all about protecting one's own interests... then you go on to espouse that the benefit of the NCAA is the chance of a team accomplishment.

[For further reading on the subject, I suggest giving "Jenkins, Kris" a Google.  Not only did he win a championship, but he made the most memorable game-winning shot in a championship game ever.  Where's his $50M contract with Golden State?  He's playing in some basketball league that most people have never heard of... fat lot of good his "championship" did him, eh?]

tl;dr - Championships are not individual accomplishments, and in the NCAA, you're not compensated for winning one.  So again I'll ask, from a player's perspective, what does the NCAAT offer that the NIT doesn't?

Bragging rights.  Possibly job prospects.

A dude I know from HS went on to play at UNC-Wilmington.  He is now an assistant at a D-II school.  He lists on his bio that he played in the NCAA tournament.  Instant respect from high-school recruits, etc.

Contrast that with "I played in the NCAA's second-tier tournament."  Doesn't have the same ring to it.

[mu03eng]

Really?  How much does said championship pay?  Is the NCAA going to a Stanley Cup this year where every player's name goes on the trophy?  Will the Wikipedia page for the 2018 Tournament say "Champion - [Insert Players' Names]."  Championships are great for the school, but what does it do for the player? 

So on one hand you claim that sitting out the NIT is all about protecting one's own interests... then you go on to espouse that the benefit of the NCAA is the chance of a team accomplishment.

[For further reading on the subject, I suggest giving "Jenkins, Kris" a Google.  Not only did he win a championship, but he made the most memorable game-winning shot in a championship game ever.  Where's his $50M contract with Golden State?  He's playing in some basketball league that most people have never heard of... fat lot of good his "championship" did him, eh?]

tl;dr - Championships are not individual accomplishments, and in the NCAA, you're not compensated for winning one.  So again I'll ask, from a player's perspective, what does the NCAAT offer that the NIT doesn't?

NBA visibility. Steph Curry is a prime example, his tournament run with Davidson absolutely opened eyes that very likely wouldn't have been opened in the NIT. Additionally, I'd guess satisfaction as playing in and/or winning an NCAA championship is way way way more satisfying then playing in an NIT for the also-rans. These guys are hypercompetititve you think they like playing in the losers bracket?

[Pakuni]

tl;dr - Championships are not individual accomplishments, and in the NCAA, you're not compensated for winning one.  So again I'll ask, from a player's perspective, what does the NCAAT offer that the NIT doesn't?

NCAA championship rings are selling for as much as five figures on eBay, so there's that.

[Dawson Rental]

Well, that pretty much gets right to the heart of it.  I'd go with desire over need to be entertained, though.

I see, we don't like it when the cheap labor decides to protect their long term revenue prospects contrary to our need to be entertained.

[Dawson Rental]

Really?  How much does said championship pay?  Is the NCAA going to a Stanley Cup this year where every player's name goes on the trophy?  Will the Wikipedia page for the 2018 Tournament say "Champion - [Insert Players' Names]."  Championships are great for the school, but what does it do for the player? 

So on one hand you claim that sitting out the NIT is all about protecting one's own interests... then you go on to espouse that the benefit of the NCAA is the chance of a team accomplishment.

[For further reading on the subject, I suggest giving "Jenkins, Kris" a Google.  Not only did he win a championship, but he made the most memorable game-winning shot in a championship game ever.  Where's his $50M contract with Golden State?  He's playing in some basketball league that most people have never heard of... fat lot of good his "championship" did him, eh?]

tl;dr - Championships are not individual accomplishments, and in the NCAA, you're not compensated for winning one.  So again I'll ask, from a player's perspective, what does the NCAAT offer that the NIT doesn't?

How do you think Kris Jenkins felt after making that shot?

What does the NCAAT offer that the NIT does not?  A chance to compete for a championship at the highest level.  I'm not saying that every player has to value that, but I'm certain that Kris Jenkins has no regrets that he played in the NCAA that he won with his Villanova teammates.

[WarriorDad]

I wouldn't be playing a lot of pick up ball between now and the NBA draft if I were a player.

Are we going to get to a point where a player tells a coach this RPI 320 team isn't worth the risk, but I'll play in the conference games and key matchups?

[MU82]

Are we going to get to a point where a player tells a coach this RPI 320 team isn't worth the risk, but I'll play in the conference games and key matchups?

Yep. It will happen 100 times a week. Maybe more.

[bilsu]

The point is you are a teammate, and your team is still playing and trying to win a championship. To walk away from your team--even if for explicable reasons--is selfish and a disservice to your team and teammates.

I agree 100% with this.

I know if I were the coach and a player chose to sit out, he would not be allowed to sit on the bench. My attitude would be that you chose to be no longer on the team.

[jesmu84]

The point is you are a teammate, and your team is still playing and trying to win a championship. To walk away from your team--even if for explicable reasons--is selfish and a disservice to your team and teammates.

I assume that also applies to transfers? What about coaching changes?

Aren't those 2 moves selfish and a disservice to the team - even if for explicable reasons?

[MU82]

I assume that also applies to transfers? What about coaching changes?

Aren't those 2 moves selfish and a disservice to the team - even if for explicable reasons?

Quite a few Scoopers side every single time with the overdog. It's OK for coaches to totally screw over their players but not OK for players to look out for their own self-interests.

[mug644]

I assume that also applies to transfers? What about coaching changes?

Aren't those 2 moves selfish and a disservice to the team - even if for explicable reasons?

Yes, it does apply to transfers, especially mid-season transfers. I absolutely see them as quitting on their team. Transferring at the end of a season is acceptable.

Same, but to a lesser degree, for coaches who leave. Bo Ryan quit on his team.