Cancel student debt

[dgies9156]

Canceling student loans isn't fair to all the people who realized that getting deep into debt for their education was not a good idea and made other plans.

Or parents who saved everything they could and sacrificed so their children could have the same benefits they had. Who knew that the best chance their kids had was their personal investment in their children's future.

The lesson you're sending on governmental cancelling of student debt is scary.

[Pakuni]

Right now we are punishing the poetry majors for making them subsidize the engineers.

What are you basing this on? Cause it sure sounds like something you're making up?
Clearly you're making some assumption that a poetry degree costs less than an engineering degree, and that gap is not filled by the additional tuition and fees engineering students pay (which, as I pointed out, is a $5,000 at one public school ... I'll find other examples if you wish).

Could you please provide some actual evidence that poetry students are subsidizing engineering students?

[Pakuni]

Or parents who saved everything they could and sacrificed so their children could have the same benefits they had. Who knew that the best chance their kids had was their personal investment in their children's future.

The lesson you're sending on governmental cancelling of student debt is scary.

My parents scraped hard to send me to Catholic grade and high schools.
Today, many states offer taxpayer-funded vouchers for this. Others, like Illinois, are using taxpayer funds to give families scholarships to attend religious schools.

Should my parents be scared and/or crying about how unfair it all is? They sacrificed to send their kids to private school, and now their tax dollars are going to let other families do it for free or much less? So unfair!

There are some solid arguments against canceling student debt. "Waahhh, it's unfair" is not one of them.

[GGGG]

Or parents who saved everything they could and sacrificed so their children could have the same benefits they had. Who knew that the best chance their kids had was their personal investment in their children's future.

The lesson you're sending on governmental cancelling of student debt is scary.

Yet we have laws is place that allow cancellation of other debt. And what happens to those who take advantage of such laws? We elect them president.

It’s just interesting how the “moral hazard” argument always seems to be used with the poor and the young.

[forgetful]

Sure they can ... right now they do not need to because we find ways to create artificial demand by making it easy to get a student loan.

How about different prices for different majors?  Want to major in Computers or engineering?  $50k/year.  Want to major in English or history?  $25k/year.  Music or poetry?  $10k/year.

Right not having the same price for all means the poetry majors are subidzing the engineers.

I've told you this many times.  You do not understand anything about the education industry.  You repeatedly state false information, make false assumptions, and not surprisingly, come up with false conclusions.  I've tried to correct you in the past, but you refuse to actually listen.

Here is another one for you, that I've told you before:

At most universities, STEM departments are revenue generating.  They make a substantial profit.  Liberal arts departments operate at a loss. 

They could remove all liberal arts departments and actually be able to lower tuition, but that comes at a cost of the students not getting as good of an education.  It is known and has been shown that the liberal arts components of a degree improve the success and abilities of all disciplines. 

[WarriorDad]

I keep seeing people state things like this.  As I understood it, the tax tables for witholding didn't come until late January, and wouldn't be applied until the February paycheck.

So how are people seeing all this "extra money".

Tax tables were completed January 11th.  By law the implementation of the tables has to be completed by Feb 15th.  Americans started seeing extra money as early as Feb 1st per CNN.

[rocket surgeon]

"Republicans more conservative. The middle is gone. "

  not taking any positions here, but just my take-

        i wish this were true, but today's republicans may not even meet the standards of the old kennedy democrats.  i call today's republicans, democrat-lite.  the middle is long and strong=the independents

  the universities and the feds need each other-that's why you won't see any changes except the election time whiffing of debt relief.  free education for everyone!!  then everyone can do ha-vod

[warriorchick]

Tax tables were completed January 11th.  By law the implementation of the tables has to be completed by Feb 15th.  Americans started seeing extra money as early as Feb 1st per CNN.

Where I work, the new tax tables were used on our January 31 paychecks.

[Pakuni]

"Republicans more conservative. The middle is gone. "

  not taking any positions here, but just my take-

        i wish this were true, but today's republicans may not even meet the standards of the old kennedy democrats.  i call today's republicans, democrat-lite.  the middle is long and strong=the independents

  the universities and the feds need each other-that's why you won't see any changes except the election time whiffing of debt relief.  free education for everyone!!  then everyone can do ha-vod

Ronald Reagan would be bounced from a GOP primary faster than Scott Walker these days for not being conservative enough.

[jesmu84]

Yet we have laws is place that allow cancellation of other debt. And what happens to those who take advantage of such laws? We elect them president.

It’s just interesting how the “moral hazard” argument always seems to be used with the poor and the young.

Yup.

[WarriorDad]

Yet we have laws is place that allow cancellation of other debt. And what happens to those who take advantage of such laws? We elect them president.

It’s just interesting how the “moral hazard” argument always seems to be used with the poor and the young.

Were we not all poor and young at one point in time?  I certainly was.

[jesmu84]

My parents scraped hard to send me to Catholic grade and high schools.
Today, many states offer taxpayer-funded vouchers for this. Others, like Illinois, are using taxpayer funds to give families scholarships to attend religious schools.

Should my parents be scared and/or crying about how unfair it all is? They sacrificed to send their kids to private school, and now their tax dollars are going to let other families do it for free or much less? So unfair!

There are some solid arguments against canceling student debt. "Waahhh, it's unfair" is not one of them.

Yup. It's also interesting, to me, how economic statistics and arguments can be used/supported for one thing (GOP/Trump tax cuts) but ignored and poo-poo'ed in another (eliminate student loans).

[Hards Alumni]

My tone hasn't changed in 40ish years of voting.  Parties change.  Not sure how old you are, but let me give some examples.

In the late 70's when my voting started, almost 50% of Democrats owned guns. Today that number is less than 25%.  Back then there were numerous pro life Democrats in Congress, today there are three and one will likely be primaried out this Summer.  Where I used to be on board with 90% of the platform, I'm now on board with about 65%.  I still will vote Democrat, but my tone hasn't changed, the parties have changed.  Democrats more liberal.  Republicans more conservative. The middle is gone.  Maybe it is you that needs to recognize tone and how through time parties change, but us old guys may not change with our parties but still belong to them.

Why are you pretending to be a Democrat.  This is written 100% like our ol' buddy Chicos.  Who can't stay away from here.  God forbid this guy gets a hold of a cigarette or some opiods some day.  He'd be dead before sunrise.

[Hards Alumni]

"Republicans more conservative. The middle is gone. "

  not taking any positions here, but just my take-

        i wish this were true, but today's republicans may not even meet the standards of the old kennedy democrats.  i call today's republicans, democrat-lite.  the middle is long and strong=the independents

  the universities and the feds need each other-that's why you won't see any changes except the election time whiffing of debt relief.  free education for everyone!!  then everyone can do ha-vod

Get out of the echo chamber you live in.  It isn't reality.  If anything the Democrats of today are centrists.  In any other country, they'd be left leaning conservatives.

[Lennys Tap]

Yup. It's also interesting, to me, how economic statistics and arguments can be used/supported for one thing (GOP/Trump tax cuts) but ignored and poo-poo'ed in another (eliminate student loans).

What in the Wide World of Sports does a change in the tax code altering the
% of earnings the government confiscates from her citizens have to do with making contracts freely entered into resulting in trillions of dollars of obligation null and void?

Answer:nothing.

[forgetful]

Where I work, the new tax tables were used on our January 31 paychecks.

Tax tables were completed January 11th.  By law the implementation of the tables has to be completed by Feb 15th.  Americans started seeing extra money as early as Feb 1st per CNN.

Thanks, I know the tables were completed in January, but figured most companies would not use them until the end of February check.  Apparently some companies did so sooner.

Be careful with budgeting though.  I've now seen what I will be paid for this month, and my take home will go up.  I've also calculated what I will pay for the year in taxes and what i'm taking home extra now will be paid pack come tax time. 

I'm taking a net loss.  Take home pay is higher now, but I will pay more in taxes this year than before. 

#taxincrease.

[jesmu84]

What in the Wide World of Sports does a change in the tax code altering the
% of earnings the government confiscates from her citizens have to do with making contracts freely entered into resulting in trillions of dollars of obligation null and void?

Answer:nothing.

If the concern is the economy and Act A allegedly increases said economy, and people support Act A because of its effect on the economy, then Act B, which also increases said economy, should be supported likewise.

[GGGG]

What in the Wide World of Sports does a change in the tax code altering the
% of earnings the government confiscates from her citizens have to do with making contracts freely entered into resulting in trillions of dollars of obligation null and void?

Answer:nothing.

"Confiscates" 

Again, it's no different than bankruptcy law.

[warriorchick]

Thanks, I know the tables were completed in January, but figured most companies would not use them until the end of February check.  Apparently some companies did so sooner.

Be careful with budgeting though.  I've now seen what I will be paid for this month, and my take home will go up.  I've also calculated what I will pay for the year in taxes and what i'm taking home extra now will be paid pack come tax time. 

I'm taking a net loss.  Take home pay is higher now, but I will pay more in taxes this year than before. 

#taxincrease.

First thing I did after I calculated what my new take home pay would be was to submit a W-4 with fewer exemptions to bump my taxes back up.

#bluestateliving

[rocket surgeon]

Ronald Reagan would be bounced from a GOP primary faster than Scott Walker these days for not being conservative enough.

this is the best you can come up with?  you know i would absolutely be pummeled for trying to make the parallel argument-nice one

[GGGG]

First thing I did after I calculated what my new take home pay would be was to submit a W-4 with fewer exemptions to bump my taxes back up.

#bluestateliving

Yep.  After I saw my first paycheck with the new tables, I bumped up my withholding considerably.

[rocket surgeon]

Get out of the echo chamber you live in.  It isn't reality.  If anything the Democrats of today are centrists.  In any other country, they'd be left leaning conservatives.

ya see, this is what i mean about trying to voice opposition opinion-

   first off, we can do without the vitriolic tone.  yes, i am probably guilty of it from time to time as well, but as i've said before, i treat others as they treat me

   secondly, i know for a fact, i would be called out on this as well-the statement you make is opinion, unless you have something to back it up.  if it is your opinion-fine.  i understand many feel the same as you and i'm not going to try to change yours or anyone else's opinion-peace hards
    judging by how the dems have embraced some really left wing groups and this is where our media drops the ball- the media will vaguely if at all point these relationships out because they are in the same club

[Tugg Speedman]

I've told you this many times.  You do not understand anything about the education industry.  You repeatedly state false information, make false assumptions, and not surprisingly, come up with false conclusions.  I've tried to correct you in the past, but you refuse to actually listen.

Here is another one for you, that I've told you before:

At most universities, STEM departments are revenue generating.  They make a substantial profit.  Liberal arts departments operate at a loss. 

They could remove all liberal arts departments and actually be able to lower tuition, but that comes at a cost of the students not getting as good of an education.  It is known and has been shown that the liberal arts components of a degree improve the success and abilities of all disciplines.

Numbers please ... how much does MU's STEM departments make?

[WarriorDad]

Why are you pretending to be a Democrat.  This is written 100% like our ol' buddy Chicos.  Who can't stay away from here.  God forbid this guy gets a hold of a cigarette or some opiods some day.  He'd be dead before sunrise.

I am not pretending to be anything.  I am a registered Democrat and have voted Democrat for president in every election.  The Democrat party today is not centrist, at least not by historical norms.  The GOP is definitely not centrist as they move further right.  In the 70's and 80's the parties were more closely aligned than they are today.  That is when I began voting.  The primaries and special interest groups are pulling the most extreme of each party to the forefront and moderates cannot win.  Watch some videos of Schumer on immigration from less than 6 years ago vs today, they are two totally different people with completely different messages.  Watch some videos of Republican Senators and Reps and it is the same thing. They pander to their extremes now because that is where the energy and voters are.

The other person is correct, Reagan would not survive a GOP primary.  Nixon and Ike could not either.  On our side, Mondale, Carter and Kennedy couldn't either.   Mondale's father could, but not Mondale who abandoned the New Deal.   That leaves us oldies either in a party that is dramatically different than when we joined, or the choice to leave and become an independent.

[warriorchick]

Yet we have laws is place that allow cancellation of other debt.

And if you are an individual who takes advantage of those laws, it ruins your credit for seven years.  What is being proposed is basically saying "never mind".

I do think that allowing student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy is something worth considering.