Michigan State President Forced Out Over Gymnastic Doctor Scandal

[Tugg Speedman]

No

You’re still not getting how the world changed with Weinstein and #metoo.

[Lennys Tap]

The vast majority of assaults reported to University die in an office, where the victims are scared out of saying anything because of "how powerful" their attackers/family are and the media storm it would create.

Do you have any proof of this? If this is really true (it sounds crazy) why do we even have universities? Shut 'em down, learn on line.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Replacing Izzo would be very difficult. Could there be sanctions because of this?  I think some would steer well clear of that job.

Sanctions by whom?  UNC, Louisville, Auburn, Miami, Arizona, USC, South Carolina, Okla State are awaiting the NCAA's sanctions...Izzo got one game for paying Dawson's AAU coach for helping "camp".

What a disgrace of an organization. UNC gets nothing and Juan Anderson gets three games for attending a Brewers' game with his roommate. Emmert makes Jolly Roger look good.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You’re still not getting how the world changed with Weinstein and #metoo.

As someone in the trenches on this issue I can tell you the world hasn't changed as much as you seem to think. Public perception has changed for the moment, but unless it results in systematic change (update laws, more training for law enforcement/lawyers/educators/judges, more education in middle/high school, etc) then it will unfortunately pass. People are angrier and more sympathetic than they were before, there are good people trying to channel that into meaningful action. I hope they succeed.

[forgetful]

Do you have any proof of this? If this is really true (it sounds crazy) why do we even have universities? Shut 'em down, learn on line.

Not really possible to prove, what I know is from many people in positions where they would know the actual number of assaults, and those that are reported to occur.  They indicate that at the Universities I have contacts, many are hushed away.  People that know the students report that they were essentially pressured into deciding not to go to police etc. 

I have sufficient contacts at about 5 Universities, and I know in conversations that these are problems at 4 of them.  It is certainly possible that these 4 are actually in the minority, but I find that hard to believe.

But it is not just Universities.  That is the whole point of the #metoo movement; and a general trend of society that if you have money/power, the rules do not apply to you. 

[Lennys Tap]

Not really possible to prove, what I know is from many people in positions where they would know the actual number of assaults, and those that are reported to occur.  They indicate that at the Universities I have contacts, many are hushed away.  People that know the students report that they were essentially pressured into deciding not to go to police etc. 

I have sufficient contacts at about 5 Universities, and I know in conversations that these are problems at 4 of them.  It is certainly possible that these 4 are actually in the minority, but I find that hard to believe.

But it is not just Universities.  That is the whole point of the #metoo movement; and a general trend of society that if you have money/power, the rules do not apply to you.

Saying you have anecdotal, second (at best) hand information that sometimes at a handful of institutions accusations of sexual assault are improperly handled is nowhere near the same thing as saying that the vast majority of sexual assault allegations die because universities and the victims are intimidated by "powerful" students or their parents. Over the top hyperbole doesn't help solve anything.

[forgetful]

Saying you have anecdotal, second (at best) hand information that sometimes at a handful of institutions accusations of sexual assault are improperly handled is nowhere near the same thing as saying that the vast majority of sexual assault allegations die because universities and the victims are intimidated by "powerful" students or their parents. Over the top hyperbole doesn't help solve anything.

To be fair, I clarified my sources when you requested it.  And my point was that I don't think giving athletes/wealthy people a pass is the minority at Universities. 

If you want more info, the best sources are RA's.  They are usually the first line of contact in assault reports and get those victims/reports to the people in charge.  The RA's usually follow up with the victims; many times to find out that the report went nowhere and the students were warned about "how big a deal" reporting so and so would become.  They will do it under the guise, of you need to be prepared for the publicity storm and everyone attacking you/suing you...we'll be here for you through the whole thing, but you need to be aware of how ugly this will get. 

Another great source is the legal counsel for some of these departments, that have been known to resign because they would not partake in the practices of some institutions.

And, although second hand, it is as close to the source as anyone will get, given that these things get brushed away and covered up. 

I repeat, my point was TAMU saying that coverups because of wealth/fame are in the minority, my contacts imply they are not.  The #metoo movement indicates that they are widespread beyond the campus walls to all of society. 

[Lennys Tap]

I repeat, my point was TAMU saying that coverups because of wealth/fame are in the minority, my contacts imply they are not.  The #metoo movement indicates that they are widespread beyond the campus walls to all of society.

Thanks for the clarification, but my point stands:when scientists like yourself use flimsy, anecdotal, second hand information to draw conclusions regarding the "vast majority" of cases it's decidedly unscientific, reckless and dangerous. IMO.

[forgetful]

Thanks for the clarification, but my point stands:when scientists like yourself use flimsy, anecdotal, second hand information to draw conclusions regarding the "vast majority" of cases it's decidedly unscientific, reckless and dangerous. IMO.

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I disagree with your sentiment.  This is not a scientific endeavor, there is no scientific data.  Almost all of the data is second hand.  All of the data is by definition anecdotal, as it all relies on personal accounts.  My data is not flimsy, it just has a small sample size, so it becomes just one data point.

If you look at broad statistics, the number of students that say they were sexually assaulted (anonymous polls), and the number that say they reported it to university staff, and compare it to the number of assaults Universities report to occur, either the victims are lying or the Universities are not reporting them.  This is another data point.

The first hand data of victims going public with their stories is consistent with this being a much wider spread problem not a minority issue. 

[GGGG]

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I disagree with your sentiment.  This is not a scientific endeavor, there is no scientific data.  Almost all of the data is second hand.  All of the data is by definition anecdotal, as it all relies on personal accounts.  My data is not flimsy, it just has a small sample size, so it becomes just one data point.

If you look at broad statistics, the number of students that say they were sexually assaulted (anonymous polls), and the number that say they reported it to university staff, and compare it to the number of assaults Universities report to occur, either the victims are lying or the Universities are not reporting them.  This is another data point.

The first hand data of victims going public with their stories is consistent with this being a much wider spread problem not a minority issue. 

Stop being so reckless and dangerous.

[tower912]

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2018/01/former_michigan_state_player_t.html#incart_river_home_pop

Travis Walton responds.   

[Lennys Tap]

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2018/01/former_michigan_state_player_t.html#incart_river_home_pop

Travis Walton responds.

Well, either he's lying' or ESPN is.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://theundefeated.com/features/michigan-state-basketball-coach-tom-izzo-stop-deflecting-and-start-talking/

[Pakuni]

Well, either he's lying' or ESPN is.

Not really. Walton isn't denying that he was allowed to continue coaching after he was accused of physically assaulting a woman. He's denying the assault.
And ESPN didn't claim Walton was fired - which he denies. ESPN reported the contents of a letter a MSU sex assault counselor sent to school administrators which said he was fired. And ESPN allowed Walton to deny that in their original story.