Author Topic: Tough break for Creighton (Read 8085 times)

tower912 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 21, 2018, 05:17:08 PM »

They didn't look great against Providence. Hard to tell if Providence has righted the ship at home or whether this is the new normal for Creighton.

Herman Cain · « **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2018, 06:04:13 PM »

Quote from: tower912 on January 21, 2018, 05:17:08 PM

They didn't look great against Providence. Hard to tell if Providence has righted the ship at home or whether this is the new normal for Creighton.

Providence is 5-2 in the Big East. So I am not sure there was much wrong with their ship. The injury will hurt Creighton for sure, but they also still have a lot of very good players, a very good coach and a big home court advantage.

IrwinFletcher · « **Reply #27 on:** January 21, 2018, 06:08:09 PM »

Providence has had a relatively easy schedule so far.

They still face Villanova twice and X on the road. Plus they play SHU twice and have to travel to MU and Butler.

TAMU, Knower of Ball · « **Reply #28 on:** January 21, 2018, 06:30:37 PM »

Quote from: Herman Cain on January 21, 2018, 06:04:13 PM

Providence is 5-2 in the Big East. So I am not sure there was much wrong with their ship. The injury will hurt Creighton for sure, but they also still have a lot of very good players, a very good coach and a big home court advantage.

Oh there was. They have had a series of injuries to key players. Holt, White, Cartwright, and Diallo plus illnesses for Bullock and Lindsey that resulted in some losses that I don't think would have happened otherwise. UMass, Houston, and arguably us are all in that category. Also the OT win over Brown, 1 point win against Belmont, 4 point win against Rider, and 2 point win against Stony Brook (all at home) were bad looks. Now that all of those players are back (except Holt) they should start playing like the top 4 team in conference they were expected to be.

Plus without Krampelj I think Creighton becomes a bubble team.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape · « **Reply #29 on:** January 21, 2018, 09:13:21 PM »

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2018, 06:30:37 PM

Plus without Krampelj I think Creighton becomes a bubble team.

Creighton already has 5 BE wins. Games remaining against St. John's, Georgetown, and DePaul x2. Four more wins gives them an RPI Wizard profile of:

19-11 RPI 51 SOS 49

That's probably enough to make it. In fact, I'd be stunned if that got them left out.

MU82 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 21, 2018, 09:24:50 PM »

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on January 18, 2018, 02:36:51 PM

Maybe so, but it's still two Ws.

Yeah ... reminds me of when the Philly Eagles lost the QB who was probably gonna be NFL MVP this season. They pretty much had no chance after that.

I absolutely would assume we'll beat Creighton twice now because we're pretty much the best team in college basketball.

GoldenDieners32 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 21, 2018, 10:19:06 PM »

Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2018, 09:24:50 PM

Yeah ... reminds me of when the Philly Eagles lost the QB who was probably gonna be NFL MVP this season. They pretty much had no chance after that.

I absolutely would assume we'll beat Creighton twice now because we're pretty much the best team in college basketball.

Mark us up as national champs

Herman Cain · « **Reply #32 on:** January 21, 2018, 10:19:56 PM »

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2018, 06:30:37 PM

Oh there was. They have had a series of injuries to key players. Holt, White, Cartwright, and Diallo plus illnesses for Bullock and Lindsey that resulted in some losses that I don't think would have happened otherwise. UMass, Houston, and arguably us are all in that category. Also the OT win over Brown, 1 point win against Belmont, 4 point win against Rider, and 2 point win against Stony Brook (all at home) were bad looks. Now that all of those players are back (except Holt) they should start playing like the top 4 team in conference they were expected to be.

Plus without Krampelj I think Creighton becomes a bubble team.

http://www.omaha.com/creighton/mens-basketball/providence-loss-exposes-creighton-s-deficiencies-without-martin-krampelj/article_39abab3c-fe2d-11e7-92eb-936ac2c12b8a.html

Juan Anderson's Mixtape · « **Reply #33 on:** January 21, 2018, 10:45:20 PM »

Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on January 21, 2018, 10:19:06 PM

Markus up as national champs

FIFY

TAMU, Knower of Ball · « **Reply #34 on:** January 21, 2018, 11:24:08 PM »

Quote from: Lazar's Headband on January 21, 2018, 09:13:21 PM

Creighton already has 5 BE wins. Games remaining against St. John's, Georgetown, and DePaul x2. Four more wins gives them an RPI Wizard profile of:

19-11 RPI 51 SOS 49

That's probably enough to make it. In fact, I'd be stunned if that got them left out.

I didn't mean it as they literally will be a bubble team. Committee will take their previous work into account. I meant how good Creighton actually is without Krampelj. With him, they are a top 25 team. Without him, I think they will be more like top 40 to top 50.

Dawson Rental · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2018, 10:34:58 AM »

Is there still enough time to get Froling's little bro enrolled this semester?

CreightonWarrior · « **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2018, 12:24:41 PM »

Quote from: Lazar's Headband on January 21, 2018, 09:13:21 PM

Creighton already has 5 BE wins. Games remaining against St. John's, Georgetown, and DePaul x2. Four more wins gives them an RPI Wizard profile of:

19-11 RPI 51 SOS 49

That's probably enough to make it. In fact, I'd be stunned if that got them left out.

We have a game midweek game against Bemidji state so there is win #20. I think we flirt with 8/9 and hopefully stay out of Dayton.

We R Final Four · « **Reply #37 on:** January 22, 2018, 12:48:50 PM »

What is the BSU game all about?
Stan coached there awhile back.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan · « **Reply #38 on:** January 22, 2018, 12:54:00 PM »

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 22, 2018, 12:24:41 PM

We have a game midweek game against Bemidji state so there is win #20. I think we flirt with 8/9 and hopefully stay out of Dayton.

Non D1 games don't count towards your record.

rocky_warrior · « **Reply #39 on:** January 22, 2018, 03:49:27 PM »

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 22, 2018, 12:54:00 PM

Non D1 games don't count towards your record.

Oh, they count! Especially if you lose. Just not for RPI (or computer ranking) purposes.

CreightonWarrior · « **Reply #40 on:** January 22, 2018, 06:26:19 PM »

Quote from: WE R FINAL FOUR on January 22, 2018, 12:48:50 PM

What is the BSU game all about?
Stan coached there awhile back.

Scheduled a game during our bye week to keep fresh.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan · « **Reply #41 on:** January 22, 2018, 06:37:33 PM »

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 22, 2018, 03:49:27 PM

Oh, they count! Especially if you lose. Just not for RPI (or computer ranking) purposes.

In other words, they don’t count towards your tournament resume.

rocky_warrior · « **Reply #42 on:** January 22, 2018, 07:16:01 PM »

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 22, 2018, 06:37:33 PM

In other words, they don’t count towards your tournament resume.

Again...wrong. They count a lot if you lose. Very little if you win. Regardless of computer numbers.

brewcity77 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2018, 07:39:40 PM »

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 22, 2018, 07:16:01 PM

Again...wrong. They count a lot if you lose. Very little if you win. Regardless of computer numbers.

Technically, they shouldn't. They won't be on the team sheets that the Selection Committee has in the room. As effectively exhibition games, they shouldn't have any more bearing than say our game with Lindenwood did.

The committee members are human and can consider whatever they like, but any non-Division I games don't need to be factored in.

Newsdreams · « **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2018, 07:45:16 PM »

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2018, 07:39:40 PM

Technically, they shouldn't. They won't be on the team sheets that the Selection Committee has in the room. As effectively exhibition games, they shouldn't have any more bearing than say our game with Lindenwood did.

The committee members are human and can consider whatever they like, but any non-Division I games don't need to be factored in.

I've heard that secret scrimmages can affect seeding

rocky_warrior · « **Reply #45 on:** January 22, 2018, 07:57:16 PM »

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 22, 2018, 07:39:40 PM

Technically, they shouldn't. They won't be on the team sheets that the Selection Committee has in the room. As effectively exhibition games, they shouldn't have any more bearing than say our game with Lindenwood did.

Ummm...see the lowermost blue box.

https://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2017/12/04/team-sheet-guide-12-4.png

brewcity77 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 23, 2018, 12:34:49 PM »

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 22, 2018, 07:57:16 PM

Ummm...see the lowermost blue box.

Nice catch. I didn't think they ever factored those games in. Wonder what the winning percentage is for D1 teams in those games. Have to imagine it's close to 99%, but if they factor that in, one loss could be a killer.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan · « **Reply #47 on:** January 23, 2018, 12:47:15 PM »

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 23, 2018, 12:34:49 PM

Nice catch. I didn't think they ever factored those games in. Wonder what the winning percentage is for D1 teams in those games. Have to imagine it's close to 99%, but if they factor that in, one loss could be a killer.

Same. Always thought it wasn't part of the equation. Interesting catch.

rocky_warrior · « **Reply #48 on:** January 23, 2018, 01:23:11 PM »

It was included in the 2017 team sheets too.
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/2016-17%20Final%20MBB%20RPI%20Team%20Sheets.pdf

And a random check back to 2013 (didn't check all in between) shows it there too
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/2013%20Final%20Team%20Sheets.pdf

The oldest team sheets I could find, 2005, shows it at well, so I assume it's always been there.
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/2005-04-15%20final%20team%20sheets.pdf

Now...notice that the score is given, but it doesn't seem to make a W or L very apparent. Basically, I don't disagree with you guys that the games don't matter much, and I doubt an NCAA tourney team has ever lost one (non-exhibition - Syracuse lost their exhibition a few years ago). But, the information is there for the committee to see.

Edit: I can't find any regular season Div II loss in recent history. Obviously Chaminade did it in 1982, but no team sheets for that period

Only list I found was all exhibitions: https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/3rv1tx/on_division_2_vs_division_1_upsets/

brewcity77 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 23, 2018, 01:38:15 PM »

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 23, 2018, 01:23:11 PM

Now...notice that the score is given, but it doesn't seem to make a W or L very apparent. Basically, I don't disagree with you guys that the games don't matter much, and I doubt an NCAA tourney team has ever lost one (non-exhibition - Syracuse lost their exhibition a few years ago). But, the information is there for the committee to see.

Yeah, I think that Syracuse team ended up a 1-seed after winning the Big East regular season outright. Regardless, it's interesting that while those don't affect RPI they are still on display for the committee to see.

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Author Topic: Tough break for Creighton (Read 8085 times)