Froling's role in conference play

[Stretchdeltsig]

Harry played well against DePaul.  When teamed up with Matt or Theo we play big.  I like his game.  The rust is coming off, the more he plays. 

[Herman Cain]

My thesis going in was that Harry would do well against cupcakes and be challenged by more athletic teams . Seems to be the case. Although, He does have very good Rodman like instincts for rebounds and I don’t think that can be taught. His passing is good too. I think if Harry stays focused on those two things he will make steady progress. I like the three headed center that we have going with the occasional two bigs at a time . Keep expectations low for Harry and he will be fine.

[skianth16]

My thesis going in was that Harry would do well against cupcakes and be challenged by more athletic teams . Seems to be the case. Although, He does have very good Rodman like instincts for rebounds and I don’t think that can be taught. His passing is good too. I think if Harry stays focused on those two things he will make steady progress. I like the three headed center that we have going with the occasional two bigs at a time . Keep expectations low for Harry and he will be fine.

I agree with all of this. He made some nice passes last night, and did well on the boards. Passing up low percentage shots for high percentage shots seems like a good thing to me too. It's nice to be able to play big for stretches now.

[Marqevans]

It was DePaul, but I think we can all agree that he looked good.  Somebody mentioned conditioning.  Remember he spent a long time in a boot with a stress fracture in his foot.   Perhaps a few minutes at a time is how he should be used.   Three headed center going forward.

Wait, he was seen on campus with a boot???

[Newsdreams]

Wait, he was seen on campus with a boot???

You got it. He became official MU playa that day.

[Marcus92]

Harry's eFG% is brought down entirely by his outside shooting. He's 11-21 from 2-point range, good for 52.4%. No problem there whatsoever. But he's just 1-12 (8.3%) from 3-point land to date, which tanks his overall offensive efficiency.

As others have pointed out, he's been a big contributor in other key areas — leading the team in OR% and DR%, and 2nd in assist rate (only behind Andrew Rowsey). All three stats are significantly higher than Matt Heldt. Turnover rate is also higher than the team average, so there's room for improvement there.

According to KenPom.com, Harry's performance has been good enough for him to earn 33% of the available minutes at the center spot over the past 5 games — tied with Matt.

I expect we'll see more of Harry's post game as he gets more comfortable on the court and in the flow of the offense. Outside shooting is the wild card. For now, I'd say we don't need him taking threes unless he proves he can hit somewhere around 35%.

[skianth16]

Harry's eFG% is brought down entirely by his outside shooting. He's 11-21 from 2-point range, good for 52.4%. No problem there whatsoever. But he's just 1-12 (8.3%) from 3-point land to date, which tanks his overall offensive efficiency.

As others have pointed out, he's been a big contributor in other key areas — leading the team in OR% and DR%, and 2nd in assist rate (only behind Andrew Rowsey). All three stats are significantly higher than Matt Heldt. Turnover rate is also higher than the team average, so there's room for improvement there.

According to KenPom.com, Harry's performance has been good enough for him to earn 33% of the available minutes at the center spot over the past 5 games — tied with Matt.

I expect we'll see more of Harry's post game as he gets more comfortable on the court and in the flow of the offense. Outside shooting is the wild card. For now, I'd say we don't need him taking threes unless he proves he can hit somewhere around 35%.

I would assume the remaining third of those minutes would be assigned to Theo. Is that right? Is it easy to figure out how that has changed from the non-con schedule to conference play? Theo seems to have improved with each conference game after a bit of a slow start, and now I'm very excited to see where he'll be in the next year or two. The frontcourt duo of Morrow and Theo in 2 years is going to be awesome.

[Marcus92]

I'm not sure how KenPom.com comes up with its depth chart calculations. But here's a breakdown of playing time for Matt, Harry and Theo:

First 14 games
Matt Heldt       340 minutes (24.2 mpg)
Theo John       154 minutes (11.0 mpg)
Harry Froling     51 minutes (12.8 mpg, DNP in first 10 games)

Last 5 games
Matt Heldt        85 minutes (17.0 mpg)
Theo John        74 minutes (14.8 mpg)
Harry Froling    63 minutes (12.6 mpg)

Matt logged at least 20 minutes in 9 of the first 10 games before Harry became eligible. He's only posted 20+ minutes in 4 of the 9 games since. But while Harry and Theo are clearly taking playing time from Matt, Matt is still getting the most minutes of the three.

[GoldenDieners32]

I know i do and so does everyone else on here, we underestimate what Heldt does for this team. It's not like we need him to go for 20 and 10 a game (it would be nice). We just need him in there to play great defense which he has for most of this season so far

[MU82]

I know i do and so does everyone else on here, we underestimate what Heldt does for this team. It's not like we need him to go for 20 and 10 a game (it would be nice). We just need him in there to play great defense which he has for most of this season so far

I think I perfectly estimate what Heldt does for the team.

We will be a better team when we have enough talent to limit Matt's minutes to <10 per game.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I think I perfectly estimate what Heldt does for the team.

We will be a better team when we have enough talent to limit Matt's minutes to <10 per game.

Agreed.  Which we should next season.  I'd be shocked if Matt plays more than 15 MPG next conference season.  He is barely over that so far this conference season.

[cheese ball chaser]

Agreed.  Which we should next season.  I'd be shocked if Matt plays more than 15 MPG next conference season.  He is barely over that so far this conference season.

I can't figure out this Matt situation. What is the real problem with him? Is it that his offensive game is very one-dimensional and he's only capable of scoring when he has an open look? Statistically speaking, his numbers are good. >75%tile in OR and DR%, 95%tile in BLK%, and of course the best ORTG on the team

[KampusFoods]

I can't figure out this Matt situation. What is the real problem with him? Is it that his offensive game is very one-dimensional and he's only capable of scoring when he has an open look? Statistically speaking, his numbers are good. >75%tile in OR and DR%, 95%tile in BLK%, and of course the best ORTG on the team

There's not a problem, per se. Matt plays his role very well. Doesn't try to do too much (because he can't). Gives max effort. He's a great guy to bring off the bench. Next year, we'll simply have more guys that are better than he is. Joey and Morrow come in. Theo will be improved, and is substantially stronger and more athletic than Matt. Harry has far more to his offensive game than Matt does. Heldt will certainly get his minutes, but the volume of frontcourt players alone should limit them.

[MU82]

I can't figure out this Matt situation. What is the real problem with him? Is it that his offensive game is very one-dimensional and he's only capable of scoring when he has an open look? Statistically speaking, his numbers are good. >75%tile in OR and DR%, 95%tile in BLK%, and of course the best ORTG on the team

I like to have some fun with some Scoopers joking about advanced stats, but this really does address some of the limitations of advanced stats.

I mean, Matt's usage is too low to have any of the other stats mean much. It's like the QB with the perfect passer rating because he completed 3-of-4 passes including a 75-yard TD in his only game.

Offensively, we are practically 4-on-5 with Matt on the floor. He is the center version of Derrick Wilson. (Except he's a better FT shooter - and probably a better 3-point shooter too!) He is timid and indecisive and just not offensively adept.

Defensively, Matt is an acceptable on-ball, big-on-big defender. He does not seem to be any better at hedging, handling screens, switching to defend smaller players, etc than any other big on our roster. As a rebounder, he's "OK."

Some of the above is stat-based. Much is the eye test.

Matt seems like a fine young man and he actually has overachieved IMHO based on what I thought a year ago about what his ceiling might be. But for a team with Sweet 16, Elite 8 and even Final Four aspirations, as next year's team purports to be, he is a 10-minute-max guy.

[cheese ball chaser]

There's not a problem, per se. Matt plays his role very well. Doesn't try to do too much (because he can't). Gives max effort. He's a great guy to bring off the bench. Next year, we'll simply have more guys that are better than he is. Joey and Morrow come in. Theo will be improved, and is substantially stronger and more athletic than Matt. Harry has far more to his offensive game than Matt does. Heldt will certainly get his minutes, but the volume of frontcourt players alone should limit them.

I guess I shouldn't have worded it as a "problem" and more of "why doesn't he get more minutes." But by "he can't do too much," is it that he can't drive, doesn't have a mid-range game, low FTR%? EDIT:: MU82 answered above

[Herman Cain]

I like to have some fun with some Scoopers joking about advanced stats, but this really does address some of the limitations of advanced stats.

I mean, Matt's usage is too low to have any of the other stats mean much. It's like the QB with the perfect passer rating because he completed 3-of-4 passes including a 75-yard TD in his only game.

Offensively, we are practically 4-on-5 with Matt on the floor. He is the center version of Derrick Wilson. (Except he's a better FT shooter - and probably a better 3-point shooter too!) He is timid and indecisive and just not offensively adept.

Defensively, Matt is an acceptable on-ball, big-on-big defender. He does not seem to be any better at hedging, handling screens, switching to defend smaller players, etc than any other big on our roster. As a rebounder, he's "OK."

Some of the above is stat-based. Much is the eye test.

Matt seems like a fine young man and he actually has overachieved IMHO based on what I thought a year ago about what his ceiling might be. But for a team with Sweet 16, Elite 8 and even Final Four aspirations, as next year's team purports to be, he is a 10-minute-max guy.

The value in Matt is that we get a consistent performance in a role that the coaches have defined. He is giving us 22 minutes a game. Going into the season my projection was he was able to give us 20-25 steady minutes with Theo and Harry soaking up the rest.

I am projecting us as a sweet 16 team this year, with Matt in his current role. We have the Big 3 and then we need guys who enjoy doing the dirty work and that is what Matt does. Please do not compare Matt to Derrick. Matt has offense, he is just not given the green light to go beyond what he does. If Matt goes to 10 minutes next year because we simply can't keep Theo and Harry off the floor, he would embrace that role too and that is what is great about the kid.  By the way I was in the Derrick would be great for 10 minutes of energy role camp. So I understand where you are coming from , but I think Matt has more value than just that. 

[MU82]

The value in Matt is that we get a consistent performance in a role that the coaches have defined. He is giving us 22 minutes a game. Going into the season my projection was he was able to give us 20-25 steady minutes with Theo and Harry soaking up the rest.

I am projecting us as a sweet 16 team this year, with Matt in his current role. We have the Big 3 and then we need guys who enjoy doing the dirty work and that is what Matt does. Please do not compare Matt to Derrick. Matt has offense, he is just not given the green light to go beyond what he does. If Matt goes to 10 minutes next year because we simply can't keep Theo and Harry off the floor, he would embrace that role too and that is what is great about the kid.  By the way I was in the Derrick would be great for 10 minutes of energy role camp. So I understand where you are coming from , but I think Matt has more value than just that.

I want more from my starting major-college center than "consistently" getting 3-5 points, 3-5 rebounds and OK defense.

So I guess we agree to disagree here.

[Herman Cain]

I want more from my starting major-college center than "consistently" getting 3-5 points, 3-5 rebounds and OK defense.

So I guess we agree to disagree here.

The center you want is going to demand the ball more and take it out of the hands of three 40 percent plus 3 point shooters. In another year your center would be preferred. Look at our center as a group project this year. Take the 3 guys in total we get what we need and that is why we are going to have a great season.

The Lakers won lots of titles with Kurt Rambis in their starting lineup.

[WarriorFan]

Other than getting caught too far outside on high screen coverage on D (which I believe is a coaching desire and not a player fault), Matt is ALWAYS in the right place on Offense and Defense.  That deserves minutes.

[Stretchdeltsig]

I think you guys are greatly underestimating Matt's value to this team.  Matt plays hard every minute on offense and defense.  He is our most unselfish player.  We are lucky to have him.

[THRILLHO]

I think you guys are greatly underestimating Matt's value to this team.  Matt plays hard every minute on offense and defense.  He is our most unselfish player.  We are lucky to have him.

We are lucky to have him rather than a version of him with the same physical abilities and no understanding of his limitations. But I look forward to a time when that is not enough to be a starter on a Wojo-coached team.

[jsglow]

I think you guys are greatly underestimating Matt's value to this team.  Matt plays hard every minute on offense and defense.  He is our most unselfish player.  We are lucky to have him.

+1.  And the one guy who will never complain about his playing time or role.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Current value add:

Heldt 2.72
John  0.17
Froling  0.00

Theo and Harry are replacement level players at the moment.  Their negatives balance out the positives (Theo's foul rate, Harry's eFG, TO rate for both).

Matt isn't great but he minimizes negative plays and provides his positives very efficiently.  But when Theo and Harry catchup, they could blow right past Matt.  At least that is my hope.

[Floorslapper]

The center you want is going to demand the ball more and take it out of the hands of three 40 percent plus 3 point shooters. In another year your center would be preferred. Look at our center as a group project this year. Take the 3 guys in total we get what we need and that is why we are going to have a great season.

The Lakers won lots of titles with Kurt Rambis in their starting lineup.

Good points.  I believe Wojo is coaching the center position perfectly this season.  Matt brings a lot of value to the team, yet Theo and Harry are getting their opportunities.  We will go as far as our Big Three can take us this year.

As it relates to next year, I agree with those who feel Matt's minutes will be hard to come by.  However, Wojo loves Matt, he's a great kid, serviceable - but ideally in a 10 minute role next season.

[MU82]

I believe Wojo is coaching the center position perfectly this season.  Matt brings a lot of value to the team, yet Theo and Harry are getting their opportunities.  We will go as far as our Big Three can take us this year.

As it relates to next year, I agree with those who feel Matt's minutes will be hard to come by.  However, Wojo loves Matt, he's a great kid, serviceable - but ideally in a 10 minute role next season.

I agree 100% with this.