Last Jedi *SPOILER* thread

[chapman]

You can’t have a story like Rey’s parents be set up as a big mystery then just swipe it aside like they did, hope it’s not be the final answer.

A theory could be that it's true her parents were nobodies, sure.  Because the famous name theories mostly revolve around her grandparent being someone relevant.  Like Obi-Wan or Palpatine weren't exactly taking care of their kid, if they even knew of its existence. 

Good news for some of these things is that Abrams is back for the next one, and might not be too content with stopping at the "answers" for some of the story points he set up in TFA.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Here's a review that pretty much nails my viewpoint:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2017/12/15/review-star-wars-the-last-jedi-delights-and-disappoints/#2eb339844400

I will say I nailed two things about this movie.  One, the appearance of a force ghost.  Force ghost Luke should be appearing in IX, right?

Two, Rey's parents being nobody.  I still think there's more to her story.  My theory was that her parents were nobody but she was training to be a Jedi at Luke's Academy and either Luke or Kylo Ren dropped Rey off on Jakku.  In the KR scenario, Ren was hoping to stash Rey to eventually be his apprentice after overthrowing Snoke.  If Luke dropped her off, he was hoping to save her from Ren.  Either of these could have given Rey a backstory for why she's so skilled at Jedi stuff and tied her into the Luke-Ren story arc.  But neither appear to be the case.

[MU82]

My thoughts ...

1. Killing of Snoke was ridiculous. All-powerful being who can see into everybody's minds is caught by surprise like that? Weak. I liked both the character and especially the acting by Serkis. I do like the theory that he was just saying he set up the convo between Rey and Kylo; reminds me of another bully who claims things he has nothing to do with!

2. I simply don't like Poe and Finn. Don't like the actors portraying them or the characters. I wish they'd both be killed yesterday.

3. I left the theater scratchin' my head about Rey's parents. I like some of the theories about maybe she's Obi-Wan's granddaughter or something like that.

4. I have to admit that every time Leia was on screen, I was wondering how they were going to kill her. So I was amazed that when they had the chance to kill her ... she effen floated through space and knocked on the door. Really? I'm not sure Fisher ever was much of an actress but she was terrible in this. Wooden, unbelievable, seemed like lines were fed to her seconds before she recited them. The franchise will be better without her.

5. Meanwhile, I was convinced Hamill was a complete hack but I actually liked his work here, and I mostly liked the arc of his character. He was a little whiny in the first 2/3 of the movie, as has been mentioned, but I like the last third, after Yoda's visit. I thought him brushing off his shoulder was great. Hokey, but fun.

6. Agree with those praising Adam Driver's work. Very talented actor, and he brought great depth to Kylo. Definitely my favorite character.

7. I enjoyed the movie. I still haven't seen anything I've liked as much as ANH or ESB, but this one and the previous were good entertainment. I saw it in a PDX theater (not 3D, which I hate), and the extra-wide screen and sound were outstanding. Looking forward to seeing what J.J. does with the next one.

[StillAWarrior]

Generally, I liked it.  Early on, it seemed like it was a little "Disneyfied" but that didn't carry through.  I thought the scene of him milking the thing, the sea beast in the background on one shot, the porgs and the scene with Max just felt too Disney to me.  And seriously, all those professional writers and film-makers and the best the could come up with was "crystal critters" for those animals on the salt planet?

The biggest plot hole that bothered me was how Red ended up in the MF again at the end.  Did I miss something?  She left on Snoke's escape pod, and then she showed up in the MF.  I guess she just went and found them.


My sort-of funny, too long story about getting to see the movie.  I planned to go with three of my kids, my brother and one of my son's friends.  Six of us for the 4:00 PM movie.  Assigned seats.  I purchased the tickets on Friday online.  So, we get there, buy our popcorn, etc.  Try to enter and my ticket won't scan.  Uh oh.  The guy says to just go ahead.  As we're walking to the theater, I'm thinking, "I hope nobody is in our seats."  Sure enough, our seats are occupied.  I leave everyone there and walk back out to the guy to tell him.  He looks at the email/ticket and we realize that I had purchased tickets for Friday, not Saturday.  Totally my fault.  I figured I was screwed and that was $60 down the drain and we weren't going to get to see the movie.  He calls a manager who comes over.  He asks if I'm alone, and I tell him there are six of us.  The manager says that there is no way he can get six in (it was actually a pretty small theater), but he'll see what he can do.  He comes back in five minutes and tells me that actually, if we don't mind splitting up and have four of us sitting in handicap seats, he can get us in.  I think it's awesome and thank him.  Then he says, "and if you come out to the box office afterward, I'll refund your tickets."  I ask him, "refund my tickets?" and he says yes, that he'd let us in for free.  I guess because we can't sit together?  So, he walks us down to the theater and shows us to the seats.  Previews still haven't started.  He told me to go to the box office after the movie.  Since it hadn't started, I told him I'd go right then.  I head to the box office and see the manager and thank him for helping us out and apologizing for the inconvenience.  He says no problem.  They have trouble at the box office and can't issue the refund, but tell me if I call corporate they can see that I didn't use my pass and will issue a full refund.  As I'm walking back to the theater, I see the manager again and thank him again.  He said, "no problem, you're the most pleasant person I've dealt with all day."  Then he handed me six passes and said, "next time you come to a movie, it's on us."  So, to recap:  I totally screwed up purchasing tickets -- 100% my fault.  They would have been perfectly justified in telling me I was out of luck.  But they let me into the movie for free; personally showed me to my seats; refunded my tickets; and gave me six free passes for future movies.  After the movie, by brother joked that I should see if we could get a refund for the popcorn.  Thank you Cinemark.  Way, way above and beyond on customer service.

[mu03eng]

I think this article does a great job articulating why TLJ was what it was and I think I'm getting on board with this. Sure there were flaws but in some ways, flaws are core to Star Wars otherwise we wouldn't debate this crap endlessly. I'll see it again in a week or so but the more I think about it, the more I think I really loved TLJ.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/

[Benny B]

My thoughts ...

1. Killing of Snoke was ridiculous. All-powerful being who can see into everybody's minds is caught by surprise like that? Weak. I liked both the character and especially the acting by Serkis. I do like the theory that he was just saying he set up the convo between Rey and Kylo; reminds me of another bully who claims things he has nothing to do with!

2. I simply don't like Poe and Finn. Don't like the actors portraying them or the characters. I wish they'd both be killed yesterday.

3. I left the theater scratchin' my head about Rey's parents. I like some of the theories about maybe she's Obi-Wan's granddaughter or something like that.

4. I have to admit that every time Leia was on screen, I was wondering how they were going to kill her. So I was amazed that when they had the chance to kill her ... she effen floated through space and knocked on the door. Really? I'm not sure Fisher ever was much of an actress but she was terrible in this. Wooden, unbelievable, seemed like lines were fed to her seconds before she recited them. The franchise will be better without her.

5. Meanwhile, I was convinced Hamill was a complete hack but I actually liked his work here, and I mostly liked the arc of his character. He was a little whiny in the first 2/3 of the movie, as has been mentioned, but I like the last third, after Yoda's visit. I thought him brushing off his shoulder was great. Hokey, but fun.

1. Of course, everyone knows that force-based telepathy has very narrow bandwidth.  It's hard to detect and separate the thoughts when your subject is actively using a force-telekinesis channel.

2. With you on Finn.  John Boyega is a great example of bad casting; it seems like he's really stretching more than one typically should in a Star Wars movie.  Donald Glover would have been 100x better, and heck, he might have taken the role for scale if you caught him six years ago.

3. This is what I really hated about the movie... TFA went out of its way to highlight the "who's your daddy" question, whereas ANH talked about Luke's parents briefly and then let it go.  The fact that nothing was answered in TLJ makes me feel like I just got duped by some clickbait.  Again, something else I should have seen coming... classic example of what happens when the Mouse takes over: everything they sell you gets you hooked on the next thing they're going to sell you.

4. I'm not going to badmouth the dead; however, I do feel sorry for the seventeen hundred CGI artists who are already working on Leia's appearance in Episode IX.

5. My wife leaned over to me during the movie and said "he's really starting to look like Skips," a reference to a cartoon where he voiced a 500-year old yeti.


Other thoughts:

Seeing it in 3D wasn't so bad.... I feel they really toned down the novelty of 3D and used it simply for effect rather than embellishment.

Reserved seating in movie theaters is awesome.  Show up twenty minutes after showtime, catch one trailer, and the movie starts.  No time wasted and my dead-center-of-the-theater seats were still waiting for me.

Biggest surprise of the movie.... we didn't see another 'Dilemma' thread from 82 asking us whether he should stay and watch the rest of movie or leave when they mentioned the force being a religion.

[chapman]

2. With you on Finn.  John Boyega is a great example of bad casting; it seems like he's really stretching more than one typically should in a Star Wars movie.  Donald Glover would have been 100x better, and heck, he might have taken the role for scale if you caught him six years ago.

Well, we do get




Apparently they're all wrapped up and the Han Solo movie is scheduled for May 25.  Thought that was weird.  Was expecting a new film every December. 

[🏀]

I think this article does a great job articulating why TLJ was what it was and I think I'm getting on board with this. Sure there were flaws but in some ways, flaws are core to Star Wars otherwise we wouldn't debate this crap endlessly. I'll see it again in a week or so but the more I think about it, the more I think I really loved TLJ.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/

Part of this reflects Johnson’s interest in Ben Solo and his lack of interest in Snoke (can you blame him?), but it’s also a perfect reflection of the grander ideas at work in The Last Jedi. Luke Skywalker loomed large, but in the end, he was just a bitter old man with a chip on his shoulder. Snoke loomed large, but in the end, he was just an vicious old bastard whose backstory is unimportant and who gets stabbed in the back by his angsty student. In a universe where everything is connected, where we’ve been trained to expect greater meanings and profound truths, this is a punch to the gut. Not everything is connected. The mightiest can fall. And at some point, they probably should.

Episode IX might be the most important movie in the franchise then. JJ has some big writing and developing on his plate. Outside of Ben, do we have a stable of decent characters?

• Rey -Sure, but as Ben's Resistance opposite, she's no comparsion.
• Finn - Hot garbage, no interest.
• Poe - Fun in his minor role.
• Rose - This is not the story line you are looking for.
• Maz Kanata - Hopefully they shoehorn her in again to fill a plot hole. Why was she in a middle of a fight instead of tending bar somehwere? Probably the most frustrating character in the modern trilogy.
• Force Ghost Luke - I'm down with that.
• Leia - Is there really a future here?
• Hux - Absolutely.

I'm not seeing it. Honestly, the two best characters are Ben & Hux.

[drewm88]

Complaints first:
--Too much humor. Way too much. The opening scene with Poe and Hux was funny and almost shocking that they would get that silly, but I wish they had pulled back on the rest of it. Seemed like it went far beyond the rest of the franchise in that regard.
--The casino scenes were unnecessary, or at the very least, poorly done.
--The entire Finn/Rose storyline could have been better. Her backstory/motivation were especially shoe-horned in.
--I hated Superman Leia/Mary Poppins Leia as one of you put it. I would have killed her off there. If you're not going to kill her there, make it so she doesn't get blasted out of the ship. If it's all to show her abilities with the force, don't make it look so ridiculous.

That being said, I really liked the movie.
--Kylo Ren was the best throughout. The character and the performance were excellent.
--We all expected him to turn on Snoke, just maybe not this soon. I was actually kind of hoping in the moment that he would kill Rey because it would be so shocking and turn everyone's expectations on their head. However, I loved his pitch to Rey to destroy everything and create something new together. I didn't see that idea coming, and it made perfect sense with his character and the film.
--At first I was bummed they killed off Snoke without us learning who he is, but then I realized that I don't really care about the character beyond that question. Unless we learn more in IX, he'll probably be a Dooku-esque forced character, but I'm way more interested in Kylo.
--100% on board with how they handled Luke.
--Overall, I liked the theme of burning down all the old ways/old guard and making your own path, even if you're a nobody desert cast-off or force-sensitive Oliver Twist. Somewhat meta with how Johnson took the saga.

[Hards Alumni]

Perhaps Snoke wanted Kylo to kill him.  Makes Rey gain faith in Kylo's redemption with the possibility that they form a relationship to continue the Sith ways.

Or he is Darth Plagius (sp) and taught Kylo how to bring him back... which would explain what I said above.

[barfolomew]

I enjoyed the film, but only because I knew that Johnson was going in a different direction. I was actively expecting him to intentionally piss on some of the canon, and so was pleasantly surprised that there wasn't more of that. My wife and kids were disappointed with the film, though, expecting more of a TFA look and feel.

As a few others did, I thought the humor was kind of clumsily done and my theater hardly laughed at any of it.

Kylo stole the whole movie -- he is really the only character I'm interested in moving forward. And I'm intensely interested. Loved the apparent "joining" then "splitting" of Kylo and Rey. I'm predicting more to the story of Rey's origins, but maybe not in the way we're expecting. As the characters themselves said repeatedly, Abrams will continue to kill the past in Ep 9.

They lost me for a good 10 minutes after that Leia force flying scene. Just a bridge too far. Her tunic was even flapping in the breeze... of outer space. Minus-450-degree-Fahrenheit outer space. Cmon man.

[mu03eng]

Episode IX might be the most important movie in the franchise then. JJ has some big writing and developing on his plate. Outside of Ben, do we have a stable of decent characters?

• Rey -Sure, but as Ben's Resistance opposite, she's no comparsion.
• Finn - Hot garbage, no interest.
• Poe - Fun in his minor role.
• Rose - This is not the story line you are looking for.
• Maz Kanata - Hopefully they shoehorn her in again to fill a plot hole. Why was she in a middle of a fight instead of tending bar somehwere? Probably the most frustrating character in the modern trilogy.
• Force Ghost Luke - I'm down with that.
• Leia - Is there really a future here?
• Hux - Absolutely.

I'm not seeing it. Honestly, the two best characters are Ben & Hux.

IF they had known Poe would survive TFA, I think they screwed up the casting because I think Boyega and Issac should have reversed roles.

Can't stand Hux by the way.

I want to see Force Ghost Luke so bad and I really really really hope they were setting up the ending of TLJ to give us that as part of Luke mentoring Rey as a Force Ghost, especially since Ghost Yoda (who was awesome) made reference to failures being the best lesson that Luke could pass on.

[mu03eng]

1. Of course, everyone knows that force-based telepathy has very narrow bandwidth.  It's hard to detect and separate the thoughts when your subject is actively using a force-telekinesis channel.

2. With you on Finn.  John Boyega is a great example of bad casting; it seems like he's really stretching more than one typically should in a Star Wars movie.  Donald Glover would have been 100x better, and heck, he might have taken the role for scale if you caught him six years ago.

3. This is what I really hated about the movie... TFA went out of its way to highlight the "who's your daddy" question, whereas ANH talked about Luke's parents briefly and then let it go.  The fact that nothing was answered in TLJ makes me feel like I just got duped by some clickbait.  Again, something else I should have seen coming... classic example of what happens when the Mouse takes over: everything they sell you gets you hooked on the next thing they're going to sell you.

4. I'm not going to badmouth the dead; however, I do feel sorry for the seventeen hundred CGI artists who are already working on Leia's appearance in Episode IX.

5. My wife leaned over to me during the movie and said "he's really starting to look like Skips," a reference to a cartoon where he voiced a 500-year old yeti.


Other thoughts:

Seeing it in 3D wasn't so bad.... I feel they really toned down the novelty of 3D and used it simply for effect rather than embellishment.

Reserved seating in movie theaters is awesome.  Show up twenty minutes after showtime, catch one trailer, and the movie starts.  No time wasted and my dead-center-of-the-theater seats were still waiting for me.

Biggest surprise of the movie.... we didn't see another 'Dilemma' thread from 82 asking us whether he should stay and watch the rest of movie or leave when they mentioned the force being a religion.

Whether intended or not, the TFA build up of legacy/legend/who's your daddy feeds into to TLJ perfectly from the thought that you can't depend on the past to see you through the current. Also it is echoing the theme from Dark Knight "you either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain". Luke's failing was that he thought he had become infallible and become an authority all to himself.

I think IX will be all about burning it down to build it back up but to what purpose (Kylo's nihilistic vision or Rey's unicorn vision)?

[MU82]

Biggest surprise of the movie.... we didn't see another 'Dilemma' thread from 82 asking us whether he should stay and watch the rest of movie or leave when they mentioned the force being a religion.

My biggest fear realized: I am effen slipping!

Maybe I'll just go float through space until I bump into a spaceship. I don't need no stinkin' Force!

[drewm88]

I really liked it and I think I will like it more with each watch.

Howeva...the big plot point I'm struggling with is Holdo taking the cruiser into hyperspace and wiping out the First Order fleet. Like how? And if that's a thing why aren't there hyperspace based weapons that do that stuff???

I heard a theory that you need to have a really big ship to do any damage this way, and to be successful, you have to be in the range of the other guy's weapons. Those two together make it a costly, risky proposition.

[🏀]

I want to see Force Ghost Luke so bad and I really really really hope they were setting up the ending of TLJ to give us that as part of Luke mentoring Rey as a Force Ghost, especially since Ghost Yoda (who was awesome) made reference to failures being the best lesson that Luke could pass on.

Luke pretty much said he was coming back for Kylo, right? Maybe Yoda and Luke train with a bit of hubris and Rey develops the Gray Force. The Jedi have always been a cocky, self-righteous bunch.

I'm excited where it can go.

[jesmu84]

Luke pretty much said he was coming back for Kylo, right? Maybe Yoda and Luke train with a bit of hubris and Rey develops the Gray Force. The Jedi have always been a cocky, self-righteous bunch.

I'm excited where it can go.

Eh.

It was a parallel of what obi wan said to Vader.

[chapman]

Luke pretty much said he was coming back for Kylo, right?

Was there a thing earlier where the ghosts are only visible for light side users?  Like why Obi-Wan said he couldn't interfere if Luke faced Vader.  Not that they showed much care for the "rules" in this one, but it would be a cool thing if Luke "haunts" Kylo, and the only reason Kylo can see or hear him is that he can't fully let go of the light.

[WarriorDad]

When Leia got blown out from the bridge and then somehow made it back in, my youngest turned to me and said that was the lamest scene she could remember in any movie in a very long time.

Hard to disagree.  Overall the movie had its moments, but that was bad.

[StillAWarrior]

I really thought Leia would stay behind on the salt planet to confront Kylo Ren...try to bring him over to the light side. They need to kill her off anyway, and that seemed a reasonable way to do it that could “fit” with the story. Perhaps it would have been too much of a rip off of Han Solo’s death.

Also, she could have just died when blasted out into space, and the movie really wouldn’t have suffered much (except for missing the reunion between Leia and the force-projected Luke).

[barfolomew]

Can't stand Hux by the way.

Just out of curiosity, how come?

[cheebs09]

I really thought Leia would stay behind on the salt planet to confront Kylo Ren...try to bring him over to the light side. They need to kill her off anyway, and that seemed a reasonable way to do it that could “fit” with the story. Perhaps it would have been too much of a rip off of Han Solo’s death.

I for sure thought she was going to confront Kylo in a scene or two and that was going to be how she died.

I am just having a tough time being invested in the new characters. Kylo has the most compelling story.

[chapman]

Just out of curiosity, how come?

Wasn't addressed to me, but I don't care for him either.  Like...he's loud and cruel.  So one-dimensional.  Missed opportunity for me was when he gave right in and named Kylo the new Supreme Leader the second he started force-choking him.  If it were Vader and Tarkin, Tarkin would have had some blackmail/insurance and he'd neither be dead nor taking orders from Vader he didn't agree with.

[hdog1017]

Didn't that movie used to have a war in it?

[Benny B]

Wasn't addressed to me, but I don't care for him either.  Like...he's loud and cruel.  So one-dimensional.  Missed opportunity for me was when he gave right in and named Kylo the new Supreme Leader the second he started force-choking him.  If it were Vader and Tarkin, Tarkin would have had some blackmail/insurance and he'd neither be dead nor taking orders from Vader he didn't agree with.

I hate how Kylo Ren is such a bad guy.  Like evil bad.  Sort of like Darth Vader.... like really, that bad.

Why can’t movies just be filled with multi-dimensional good guys?  Why have bad characters in movies at all?  You can still get the PG13 rating with a couple topless women, so why can’t everyone just be nice, and naked?  But not too naked.