OCD overcomes social experiment

[tower912]

1.  Bigger, older, deeper, better.
2.  Marshall is still a tool.
3. Third leg taken away from the tripod.  No Sam, no good.
4.  Small shooters get tired.  Nothing fell.  Only way to win today was to make it rain 3s.
5. The back to back blocks against Sacar was when I knew.
6.  Needed more from the frosh today.  Which may bite MU tomorrow.
7.  That is a complete team.
8.  Next.

[79Warrior]

1.  Bigger, older, deeper, better.
2.  Marshall is still a tool.
3. Third leg taken away from the tripod.  No Sam, no good.
4.  Small shooters get tired.  Nothing fell.  Only way to win today was to make it rain 3s.
5. The back to back blocks against Sacar us when I knew.
6.  Needed more from the frosh today.  Which may bite MU tomorrow.
7.  That is a complete team.
8.  Next.

add to number 1. They are much stronger.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

To beat a team like that each of the big 3 needs to show up and shots need to fall.  Obviously that didn't happen.  We took some bad shots for a stretch after we had tied it up in the 2nd half and couldn't recover from there.

Not disappointed at all with the effort.  Get a win tomorrow and it will be a successful trip, IMO. 

[GGGG]

Again, there is just zero interior scoring via either the drive or the post up.  Jump shooting teams can really only go so far. 

[nyg]

Hard to win games when two players take 40 of the 61 shots taken and score 51 of the 66 points (77%).  No one else hit really anything, so those two kept shooting, guess only option.

Key point of game when tied at 45 and MU had ball.  Took like 6 threes in a row and missed all of them.

A lot of layups made by WSU, blocks on MU layup attempts and that 3 pointer by Frankamp was big when MU making little run.   

Good news, MU had no turnovers in second half, yet still got spanked. 

When others step up, like Hauser/Cheatham yesterday, MU has a chance.  Need others to help out, especially Heldt, who in two losses has two points, both at free throw line.  Gonna be tough to win in BE. 

[NickelDimer]

This is my favorite Wojo-era team

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Hard to win games when two players take 40 of the 61 shots taken and score 51 of the 66 points (77%).  No one else hit really anything, so those two kept shooting, guess only option.

Key point of game when tied at 45 and MU had ball.  Took like 6 threes in a row and missed all of them.

A lot of layups made by WSU, blocks on MU layup attempts and that 3 pointer by Frankamp was big when MU making little run.   

Good news, MU had no turnovers in second half, yet still got spanked. 

When others step up, like Hauser/Cheatham yesterday, MU has a chance.  Need others to help out, especially Heldt, who in two losses has two points, both at free throw line.  Gonna be tough to win in BE.

The Big East is going to be tough to win in regardless but WSU and Purdue are two excellent senior-laden teams with size and depth. 

[Shark]

The Big East is going to be tough to win in regardless but WSU and Purdue are two excellent senior-laden teams with size and depth.

Exactly. And it sucks we play the most veteran teams in the beginning of the year. Oh well, win tomorrow and it'll be all good.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Exactly. And it sucks we play the most veteran teams in the beginning of the year. Oh well, win tomorrow and it'll be all good.

As Bilas said on the broadcast, I think Purdue is underrated right now.  I don't think playing this kind of competition early necessarily hurts.  Obviously wins would be a bonus but I think it's good for the young guys to see that level of competition early. 

If Sam has a typical Sam game we still may not win but the game ends up being a lot tighter.  It wouldn't surprise me if that's his worst game of the year. 

[UticaBusBarn]

This is my favorite Wojo-era team

This team has the hallmarks of a top 50 team. Maybe 2018/19 MU will be a top 25 team, but
this one is OK. I, too, like them much more than previous Wojo teams.

[GoldenZebra]

The guys are fun as hell to watch, and they play hard. Not much else to ask for, some days you are gonna lose games based on sheer talent of the opponent. All the pundits couldnt stop talking about how many pro-players WSU had.

[Marcus92]

Every game is a test. Every setback is an opportunity to honestly assess your mindset, your preparation, your game plan, and your performance — with the focus on what's ahead, getting better for the next game.

That doesn't make a loss any easier to swallow. Marquette hung with Wichita State, but ultimately fell short. I expect this team will get better this season. But there will be more hard lessons to learn along the way.

[jsglow]

Sammy's 3 quick fouls made this an extreme uphill battle.  When the shots stopped falling and we started to chuck, the writing was on the wall.

Tomorrow's important.  No head hanging.  We need to go out there with a purpose and beat a team (likely LSU) that we need to beat.  If so, successful trip prior to some tasty cupcake eating.

[MUBigDance]

Yes 2/3 and a success.
ND would be tough. Do we want them or LSU?

Not pie-in-the-sky to hope for some overachieving this year. 4th/5th BE. Tourney and a RD1 upset win?

[MarquetteDano]

One thing Wojo has not done a good job in recruiting is getting length and defense for players who are not scorers.  Rowsey, Howard, Hauser, and to some degree Cheatham can score so if their length and defense lacks it is okay.  Btw,  relatively happy with Hauser and Cheatham's length and defense.

Other than Heldt and John,  none of the "non-scorers" have enough length and defense.  Too many players are not adding enough offense to offset their defense.  I understand a lot of this group is young but that is on Wojo.  He has had the reins long enough that the non-scorers should be able to provide an advantage on the defensive end.

Hopefully with another year of seasoning the younger crop will improve both offensively and defensively.  Problem is we will lose a 20 point scorer per game in Rowsey. Joey Hauser and Bailey are going to be needed to score a lot right away.

[Galway Eagle]

One thing Wojo has not done a good job in recruiting is getting length and defense for players who are not scorers.  Rowsey, Howard, Hauser, and to some degree Cheatham can score so if their length and defense lacks it is okay.  Btw,  relatively happy with Hauser and Cheatham's length and defense.

Other than Heldt and John,  none of the "non-scorers" have enough length and defense.  Too many players are not adding enough offense to offset their defense.  I understand a lot of this group is young but that is on Wojo.  He has had the reins long enough that the non-scorers should be able to provide an advantage on the defensive end.

Hopefully with another year of seasoning the younger crop will improve both offensively and defensively.  Problem is we will lose a 20 point scorer per game in Rowsey. Joey Hauser and Bailey are going to be needed to score a lot right away.

I would almost garauntee that Morrow in combination with Joey and Bailey will offset Rowsey.

[MarquetteDano]

I would almost garauntee that Morrow in combination with Joey and Bailey will offset Rowsey.

Totally forgot Morrow.  That will make a HUGE difference.

[mayfairskatingrink]

As Bilas said on the broadcast, I think Purdue is underrated right now.  I don't think playing this kind of competition early necessarily hurts.  Obviously wins would be a bonus but I think it's good for the young guys to see that level of competition early. 

If Sam has a typical Sam game we still may not win but the game ends up being a lot tighter.  It wouldn't surprise me if that's his worst game of the year.

Sam has had these kinds of games before.

People are overrating his talent level and expecting way too much from him..

[tower912]

24 hours earlier, he put up 20/9.  Foul trouble got him today.  He will be fresher for tomorrow.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

4 games into his sophomore year we still haven't seen Sam's ceiling.  I think it is high but the consistency is not there yet.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Sam has had these kinds of games before.

People are overrating his talent level and expecting way too much from him..

Of course he has but I expect a game like today to be an outlier moving forward.

[jesmu84]

Sam has had these kinds of games before.

People are overrating his talent level and expecting way too much from him..

How are you guys handling the Herro decommit?

[warriorchick]

We lost to the 6th ranked team in the country.

Shocker.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Sams three fouls took him out of the game in the first half.  The third foul was partly Wojos fault and partly sam( just get out of the way!!).  However, he needs to be mentally tougher, one bad half cannit translate into another.  Only a sophomire so its more understandable but a good/great pkayer has to bounce back from that first half, it appeared to mentally take him out of the game.

[We R Final Four]

We lost to the 6th ranked team in the country.

Shocker.

Shockers.

[mileskishnish72]

At one point, one of the commentators indicated that WSU was bigger and stronger at every position.. Does that say it all?

Good work by 0 and 30. Sam's 3rd (sorry, dumb) foul was the turning point.
Theo gets calls for illegal screens without justification.
Nothing inside. Every time you give up a layup drill and are not fantastic on the 3's, you lose.
Whadda they call it ...FG%?

[Herman Cain]

I am still very confident in our team . We played a tough team and hung in there despite having one of the Big 3 in early foul trouble. Once our team learns that they need to be patient and methodical when behind and that they don’t have to make it up all at once they will win against the better teams .

I still am projecting 3rd in Big East and make it to the second weekend of tournament.

[willie warrior]

Agree. There is always next year. And then Wojo has 5 years of his guys.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Thoughts from the games...

1.  MU the third best team here.  The other two are ranked for a reason.

2.  Gar Forman and other NBA scouts were at our game. They weren’t at our game to watch MU players primarily.

3. MU has the most fans here. This tournament adds $16 million to the Maui economy. MU maybe 30-40% of that.

4.  Saw Mrs. Marshall post-game. Was escorting an elderly lady on walker out of game.

5.  Impressions at game different than in person. Andrew and Markus were double and tripled teamed.

5. If the rest of the upperclassmen don’t want to get it done then bring in the Frosh.

6.  Wojo not at all pleased.  First Maui loss in his lifetime.   

[chapman]

Needing all 3 of our Big 3 to perform to have a chance against good teams is troubling.  Need a defensive presence and an offensive presence to emerge between Anim, Cain, Elliott.  They're all "hold their own" decent defensively, but not imposing.  Further behind offensively. 

[MU82]

Thanks for doing your duty, tower. As usual, nicely done! I'll add a few of my own:

1. Wichita State is a Final Four-caliber team. Very impressed with then. Their role players play their roles perfectly, and they mesh together really well. I really like the PG. When they get their injured player back - wow. Hate to admit it, but very well-coached, too.

2. We died by the 3. And that'll happen sometimes when you're a perimeter team. I agree with Bilas that we beat VCU primarily because of our offensive rebounding - and that wasn't gonna happen against Wichita State. 22 second-chance pts Mon vs. 4 on Tue. We needed to shoot lights out, and we didn't.

3. Can't Anim dunk the ball? I maybe can see why he didn't the first time ... but the second time? That was a tone-setting exchange. Also, holding his follow-through for 5 seconds after shooting an airball FT - yikes!!

4. Refs called a few questionable offensive fouls, including the second on both Sam and Markus, but they also made a few bad calls against WSU. And Sam is too smart a player to commit the third foul he did. He can shake his head at the refs all he wants as he walks off the court; he has to get out of the way there.

5. I think we are gonna really like Theo John. The other 2 freshmen have potential, too; gotta put some meat on their bones, though!

6. I hope the Scoopers who were rooting for WSU to beat Cal learned their lesson. After all, if they had rooted for Cal, then Cal surely would have won. Because, you know, Scoopers totally control that stuff!

[Benny B]

Thoughts from the games...

1.  MU the third best team here.  The other two are ranked for a reason.

2.  Gar Forman and other NBA scouts were at our game. They weren’t at our game to watch MU players primarily.

3. MU has the most fans here. This tournament adds $16 million to the Maui economy. MU maybe 30-40% of that.

4.  Saw Mrs. Marshall post-game. Was escorting an elderly lady on walker out of game.

5.  Impressions at game different than in person. Andrew and Markus were double and tripled teamed.

5. If the rest of the upperclassmen don’t want to get it done then bring in the Frosh.

6.  Wojo not at all pleased.  First Maui loss in his lifetime.

I said it before, and I’ll say it again: this is why we get to go to Maui and Orlando every five years (NCAA minimum time between appearances at a given tourney, IIRC).  Just need to get the B4A into the rotation.

7. WSU fans are what we thought they were.  I sh/t you not, the mouth breather two rows back of me kept calling out for Rhonda Rowsey when Andrew had the ball... for starters, Rhonda could probably have taken out anyone on WSU’s team, and even my wife said to me, “do people still think calling someone a woman is an insult in this day and age?”  But that was pretty tame compared to the couple Shocker fans that sat right behind me... both of them LITERALLY called all of the white guys on their team by their first name and all of the black guys on their team by number, and that’s not hyperbole. 

But the sun is now setting behind Lanai, so it’s hard to stay critical.  Hopefully the good guys can send the Domers to a fourth place finish tomorrow.

[Newsdreams]

How are you guys handling the Herro decommit?

Softly...

[The Lens]

This is my favorite Wojo-era team

That’s not saying much.

[rocket surgeon]

I said it before, and I’ll say it again: this is why we get to go to Maui and Orlando every five years (NCAA minimum time between appearances at a given tourney, IIRC).  Just need to get the B4A into the rotation.

7. WSU fans are what we thought they were.  I sh/t you not, the mouth breather two rows back of me kept calling out for Rhonda Rowsey when Andrew had the ball... for starters, Rhonda could probably have taken out anyone on WSU’s team, and even my wife said to me, “do people still think calling someone a woman is an insult in this day and age?”  But that was pretty tame compared to the couple Shocker fans that sat right behind me... both of them LITERALLY called all of the white guys on their team by their first name and all of the black guys on their team by number, and that’s not hyperbole. 

But the sun is now setting behind Lanai, so it’s hard to stay critical.  Hopefully the good guys can send the Domers to a fourth place finish tomorrow.

You weren’t in Kansas anymore...calling guys by girls names gets old.  At least they may have had an excuse-alcohol.  Others, not so fortunate-head injuries and/bad gene pool.  Combine those last 2 with alcohol or some other mind altering ingredient and ya got yourselves a serial killer at best

[cheebs09]

That’s not saying much.

I thought last year's team was fun. Although frustrating at times, the Henry team was fun to watch as well.

[Lennys Tap]

I thought last year's team was fun. Although frustrating at times, the Henry team was fun to watch as well.

I thought every MU team from '67-78, KO's '96, Crean's '03, Buzz's midgets and the 2011 and 12 teams that went 28-8 in BEast play and won 5 NCAA tourney games were fun to watch. Last year there were equal parts fun and frustration. This year I'm expecting more of the same.

[g0lden3agle]

Can someone explain the thread title? 

[MU82]

Can someone explain the thread title?

In a different thread yesterday, tower said: "I will give someone else the opportunity to start the omnibus post game thread today."

When I and a couple others said we like his post-game threads, he responded: "Honestly, I want to see how one goes that I don't start.  Think of it as a social experiment."

But when push came to shove, tower couldn't resist doing his post-game duty! In other words, his OCD took over. As I hope it does again tonight.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

In a different thread yesterday, tower said: "I will give someone else the opportunity to start the omnibus post game thread today."

When I and a couple others said we like his post-game threads, he responded: "Honestly, I want to see how one goes that I don't start.  Think of it as a social experiment."

But when push came to shove, tower couldn't resist doing his post-game duty! In other words, his OCD took over. As I hope it does again tonight.

Dang, here I thought he was referencing the serial killers.

[frozena pizza]

I thought last year's team was fun. Although frustrating at times, the Henry team was fun to watch as well.

Yes, I like both of those teams better than this team.  I miss Jajuan taking it to the hoop, Luke's post presence and Reinhardt's clutch shooting.  This year we look very one dimensional and seem content to let Rowsey or Howard take a contested 3 from 5 feet behind the line rather than making the extra pass.  Super frustrating how lazy we got on offense in the second half when we were still in it.  Also, based on what I've seen I'm not expecting much of anything from the freshmen in conference play as they all seem pretty raw.

[Jay Bee]

New scribbling in Markus’ start to the season:

http://latenighthoops.com/markus-howard-off-to-a-strong-but-different-start/#.WhWpC6JMGEc

[barfolomew]

4.  Saw Mrs. Marshall post-game. Was escorting an elderly lady on walker out of game.

Are you sure the elderly lady was not escorting her out?

[79Warrior]

You weren’t in Kansas anymore...calling guys by girls names gets old.  At least they may have had an excuse-alcohol.  Others, not so fortunate-head injuries and/bad gene pool.  Combine those last 2 with alcohol or some other mind altering ingredient and ya got yourselves a serial killer at best

[79Warrior]

Thoughts from the games...

1.  MU the third best team here.  The other two are ranked for a reason.

2.  Gar Forman and other NBA scouts were at our game. They weren’t at our game to watch MU players primarily.

3. MU has the most fans here. This tournament adds $16 million to the Maui economy. MU maybe 30-40% of that.

4.  Saw Mrs. Marshall post-game. Was escorting an elderly lady on walker out of game.

5.  Impressions at game different than in person. Andrew and Markus were double and tripled teamed.

5. If the rest of the upperclassmen don’t want to get it done then bring in the Frosh.

6.  Wojo not at all pleased.  First Maui loss in his lifetime.

I think it is great how well MU travels. Speaks volumes to how strong our fan base is. Dan Shulman mentioned it several times during the broadcast.

[RJax55]

New scribbling in Markus’ start to the season:

http://latenighthoops.com/markus-howard-off-to-a-strong-but-different-start/#.WhWpC6JMGEc

Nice write-up.

[MUMountin]

Yesterday's game reminded me some of our early season woes last year--we know we are a good shooting team, and so tried to shoot our way back into the game in the second half.  We missed a couple of really good looks (sometimes from our support staff, sometimes from the big 3) that would've kept us right in it.  But then we got into a hero-ball mindset and stopped moving the ball, and just settled for contested and rushed shots instead of open looks or easy drives.

[Silkk the Shaka]

New scribbling in Markus’ start to the season:

http://latenighthoops.com/markus-howard-off-to-a-strong-but-different-start/#.WhWpC6JMGEc

This is awesome stuff. There should probably be an RSS feed to scoop of your LNH #mubb posts similar to paint touches, JS beat writers, etc.

Moving along, his 2P% counter weapon and reduced TO rate has been awesome to see. I think he'll work very well with Froling in the PnR, and once his treys start dropping he'll be nearly unstoppable.

Long story short, Markus continues to impress. Can't wait to watch him in conference season.

[Marcus92]

New scribbling in Markus’ start to the season:

http://latenighthoops.com/markus-howard-off-to-a-strong-but-different-start/#.WhWpC6JMGEc

Great article. Markus is probably the lowest on my list of concerns for the season. I'm encouraged by his defense so far, as well. Seems to be doing a better job of staying in front of his man, good positioning and effort, not getting blown by as much.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

New scribbling in Markus’ start to the season:

http://latenighthoops.com/markus-howard-off-to-a-strong-but-different-start/#.WhWpC6JMGEc

Good stuff Jay Bee, but you had a bit of a covfefe in this parpagraph:

Per Synergy, the 5-foot-11 Howard oHoHoward hFDFJFJFJFJFhas scored 28 points in 18 possessions as the P&R ball handler. That mark of 1.56 ppp puts him in the 99% percentile nationally and is one of the contributors to his strong 2FG% thus far.

[Jay Bee]

Good stuff Jay Bee, but you had a bit of a covfefe in this parpagraph:

Per Synergy, the 5-foot-11 Howard oHoHoward hFDFJFJFJFJFhas scored 28 points in 18 possessions as the P&R ball handler. That mark of 1.56 ppp puts him in the 99% percentile nationally and is one of the contributors to his strong 2FG% thus far.

Dang Russians. Thanks.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Good stuff JB. That BartTovic list is interesting. Only 6 players qualify...and we've played 5 of them...the 6th plays for Buzz. What are the odds?

[dgies9156]

I think it is great how well MU travels. Speaks volumes to how strong our fan base is. Dan Shulman mentioned it several times during the broadcast.

Me's thinks it is BennyB's organizational skills that brought the MU faithful to Hawaii

[WarriorFan]

Finally watched the game last night on replay.  WSU is really good.  They got away with a lot of very physical defense, especially on our guards.  There were times where Howard and Rowsey were fouled 3-4 times by 2-3 different guys just in one drive.  Our team is good... probably the best 25 minutes or so of hoops I've seen them play in a long time, but we're one player short.  On days when all of the big 3 are good, we can beat anyone.  Take away one, and the next guys don't seem ready to step up.

Contrary to the others, I thought we got pretty good minutes from the Freshmen.  They weren't lost defensively and didn't commit lots of turnovers.  That's good for freshmen. 

[Benny B]

Me's thinks it is BennyB's organizational skills that brought the MU faithful to Hawaii

I’m not taking credit, but this year’s MU crowd did appear substantially better than edit:2012 2017.  One thing I did notice were a lot of “return-trippers” (who were here in 2012) that brought add’l family/friends with them this time. 

So actually, I will take credit for the 4 additional MU fans I brought along this time.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I’m not taking credit, but this year’s MU crowd did appear substantially better than 2017.  One thing I did notice were a lot of “return-trippers” (who were here in 2012) that brought add’l family/friends with them this time. 

So actually, I will take credit for the 4 additional MU fans I brought along this time.

+1.  This was by far the best turnout I have seen for these holiday tournaments. Lots of families and extended families with young kids. I first thought WSU had more, but I soon realized that only Chaminade didn't have gold as its school color. So many large families there, I couldn't even pick you out Benny.  The number of kids here was a differentiator for Marquette.

Which begs to question where MU is going with their ticket plan for the new arena? They invoke per seat comparisons to UNC, Duke, Kentucky, and Louisville in their survey.  But, MU's brand and revenue since 1989 has always been driven on the supply side.  These others on the demand side. Families, friends, Chicago alums on weekends, new alum corner, and yes, like Northwestern a fun place for opposing teams to travel. Adding seat licenses and club fees adds a corporate element that changes MU's brand and increases pressure on the demand side.

MU is in a tough spot with the new deal and tax changes. I hope they don't stray too far from their family and friends identity. I am sure they are well aware of this but it is a fine line at this time.

With that, I also want to thank MU AD for being great hosts out here. First class treatment and department. See you all out here in 2022!

[DCHoopster]

I have a question for the Hawaii crowd, I saw Ike on the bench, but did not see Morrow or Froling there?  Is there a rule that transfers can not travel?  If so that must
be a huge bummer for those 2 kids.

[GGGG]

I have a question for the Hawaii crowd, I saw Ike on the bench, but did not see Morrow or Froling there?  Is there a rule that transfers can not travel?  If so that must
be a huge bummer for those 2 kids.

Transfers cannot travel unless they pay their way. Ike is eligible therefore he can travel.

[BossplayaOtto]

Transfers cannot travel unless they pay their way. Ike is eligible therefore he can travel.

Thanks. Was wondering about the transfer rule for these trips.

[Jay Bee]

Transfers cannot travel unless they pay their way. Ike is eligible therefore he can travel.

Yes, it's another fine rule re: the year-in-residence requirement. Academics first. Don't need to be making these trips. Focus on school and getting acclimated! #PraiseTheNCAA

[Nukem2]

Yes, it's another fine rule re: the year-in-residence requirement. Academics first. Don't need to be making these trips. Focus on school and getting acclimated! #PraiseTheNCAA

Yeah, I can imagine that Harry and Ed were at the library many hours studying this past week.