Author Topic: The O'Neill Standard (Read 2256 times)

warriorfred · « **on:** February 03, 2018, 06:51:29 PM »

When judging any college coach, I revert to the Kevin O'Neill standard (all praise to him). If Buzz left Marquette a dumpster fire, Dukiet left Marquette a nuclear dumpster fire.

In year 4 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him), Marquette made the NCAA tournament. Heading into year 5 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him), Marquette was effectively a lock of for the NCAA tournament and made it to the Sweet 16, beating Kentucky along the way.

Marquette was clearly ascendant in year 4 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him).

In year 4 of Wojo's reign . . . eh . . . not so much.

jesmu84 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2018, 06:57:26 PM »

Quote from: warriorfred on February 03, 2018, 06:51:29 PM

When judging any college coach, I revert to the Kevin O'Neill standard (all praise to him). If Buzz left Marquette a dumpster fire, Dukiet left Marquette a nuclear dumpster fire.

In year 4 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him), Marquette made the NCAA tournament. Heading into year 5 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him), Marquette was effectively a lock of for the NCAA tournament and made it to the Sweet 16, beating Kentucky along the way.

Marquette was clearly ascendant in year 4 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him).

In year 4 of Wojo's reign . . . eh . . . not so much.

Right. Wojo made it in year 3. So...

wadesworld · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2018, 07:27:45 PM »

The guy was left with Duane Wilson, JJJ, Luke Fischer, Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, Derrick Wilson, Deonte Burton, John Dawson, and Sandy Cohen.

2 years later he had Marquette in the NCAA Tournament. If you ask me, that's unbelievable.

He's taken a small step back this year, but guess what? We lose only one senior each of the next two seasons, and we're bringing in at the very least two impact players going into next season.

Figure out the point guard situation and this team will be very good next season. Don't do that and they'll be solid but have some frustrating games.

Norm · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2018, 07:33:41 PM »

Wojo needs to bring O’Neill in for a defensive tutorial. He needs to bring him in to teach him and the other coaches why the team is a dumpster fire on D and what they need to do to correct it.

skianth16 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2018, 07:41:23 PM »

Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2018, 07:27:45 PM

The guy was left with Duane Wilson, JJJ, Luke Fischer, Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, Derrick Wilson, Deonte Burton, John Dawson, and Sandy Cohen.

2 years later he had Marquette in the NCAA Tournament. If you ask me, that's unbelievable.

He's taken a small step back this year, but guess what? We lose only one senior each of the next two seasons, and we're bringing in at the very least two impact players going into next season.

Figure out the point guard situation and this team will be very good next season. Don't do that and they'll be solid but have some frustrating games.

Sounds to me like he was left with a respectable roster. You can't be trying to make the argument that he didn't have much to work with, are you?

wadesworld · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2018, 07:50:39 PM »

Quote from: skianth16 on February 03, 2018, 07:41:23 PM

Sounds to me like he was left with a respectable roster. You can't be trying to make the argument that he didn't have much to work with, are you?

Lol!

Well, that says a lot. I now understand why I disagree with most of your posts.

skianth16 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2018, 08:00:06 PM »

Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2018, 07:50:39 PM

Lol!

Well, that says a lot. I now understand why I disagree with most of your posts.

Deonte went on to average 15 and 6 at ISU. I'd take that on an MU team.
Luke averaged 11 and 6 as a senior. I'd call that respectable.
Duane is averaging 10 points and 4 assists a game right now at T&AM. I'd call that respectable.
JJJ averaged 12 and 4 as a senior. Again, respectable.

He didn't get a world beater given to him, but the guys weren't awful. They were respectable college basketball players.

jesmu84 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2018, 08:38:15 PM »

Quote from: skianth16 on February 03, 2018, 08:00:06 PM

Deonte went on to average 15 and 6 at ISU. I'd take that on an MU team.
Luke averaged 11 and 6 as a senior. I'd call that respectable.
Duane is averaging 10 points and 4 assists a game right now at T&AM. I'd call that respectable.
JJJ averaged 12 and 4 as a senior. Again, respectable.

He didn't get a world beater given to him, but the guys weren't awful. They were respectable college basketball players.

Yup. Everything happens in a vacuum. All those players stats happen the exact same at MU with a completely different roster in a completely scheme

WarriorDad · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2018, 08:10:41 AM »

Quote from: warriorfred on February 03, 2018, 06:51:29 PM

When judging any college coach, I revert to the Kevin O'Neill standard (all praise to him). If Buzz left Marquette a dumpster fire, Dukiet left Marquette a nuclear dumpster fire.

In year 4 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him), Marquette made the NCAA tournament. Heading into year 5 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him), Marquette was effectively a lock of for the NCAA tournament and made it to the Sweet 16, beating Kentucky along the way.

Marquette was clearly ascendant in year 4 of O'Neill's reign (all praise to him).

In year 4 of Wojo's reign . . . eh . . . not so much.

O’Neill competed in the MCC, not the Big East. Marquette also ascendant right now vs when Wojo took over. O’Neill’s 4th year team loaded with juniors, not the same in current situation.

NorthernDancerColt · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2018, 09:59:21 AM »

Quote from: WarriorDad on February 04, 2018, 08:10:41 AM

O’Neill competed in the MCC, not the Big East. Marquette also ascendant right now vs when Wojo took over. O’Neill’s 4th year team loaded with juniors, not the same in current situation.

Apples and oranges, yes. However, O'Neill's teams were predicated on defense. Defense (at least the kind involving a 7'2" shot swatter and a quick-footed, in-your-grill tenacious point guard) travels pretty well to elite conferences. I would bet that our Sweet16 '94 team could've fit well in any top league.

Goose · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2018, 10:13:00 AM »

KO had teams with very good D stats, but not great defensive teams, IMO. Their offense slowed down games and they packed in a tight zone. Big KO fan, but far from a defensive wizard from my perspective.

WhiteTrash · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2018, 10:27:05 AM »

What O'Neill did with the resources he had was fairly amazing. Comparing the resources MU offered O'Neill to work with to what Wojo has are night and day. In fact, I'm not sure a coach with Wojo's pedigree would have ever taken the MU job back in the early 90's. It was not only a complete rebuild on the court but with a very mid-major budget and facilities (Old Gym for practice )

Goose · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2018, 10:28:26 AM »

White Trash

KO delivered the goods.

NorthernDancerColt · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2018, 10:41:14 AM »

Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2018, 10:13:00 AM

KO had teams with very good D stats, but not great defensive teams, IMO. Their offense slowed down games and they packed in a tight zone. Big KO fan, but far from a defensive wizard from my perspective.

Limit possessions + low opponent FG% (KO's squads led nation more than one year in FG% defense) is usually a recipe for winning games. Tony Miller fit well in that D, as he often overplayed the perimeter with Mac there zoning the lane. Tony's excellent passing and dribbling skill-set also fit our ball care/control offense. Damon Key had nimble post moves but could you see him in a sped-up O? Talented, great teammate and good guy, but out of shape by today's standards. KO played to his pieces. I am probably wrong in seeing him as a D wizard, but maybe it's the contrast with our team's poor D today that has me dragging out the "pedestal" for the foul-mouthed one.

Goose, I really value your opinion. I want your "take" on whether there was real animosity between KO and Wojo at that Bilas-led 100-year MU Hoops function. The barbs were flying for sure. I loved KO's originality. I feel Wojo has more personality than many give him credit for.

willie warrior · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2018, 11:45:10 AM »

Love the excuses,,,,we will be great next year....we are in the BEast which is not cupcake city.....Wojo made the NCAA in year 3, but we have had just a baby step back this year....and so on.

So we should shut up and accept that we are mediocre. One NCAA trip in 4 years, bottom tier in BEast, etc. Wake up Sports Fans, that ain't what the Duke Wonderboy is here for and getting paid for.

MUBurrow · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2018, 11:52:23 AM »

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2018, 11:45:10 AM

Love the excuses,,,,we will be great next year....we are in the BEast which is not cupcake city.....Wojo made the NCAA in year 3, but we have had just a baby step back this year....and so on.

So we should shut up and accept that we are mediocre. One NCAA trip in 4 years, bottom tier in BEast, etc. Wake up Sports Fans, that ain't what the Duke Wonderboy is here for and getting paid for.

Who did you want to get the job in 2014? Who do you want to replace Wojo?

wadesworld · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2018, 11:53:47 AM »

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2018, 11:45:10 AM

Love the excuses,,,,we will be great next year....we are in the BEast which is not cupcake city.....Wojo made the NCAA in year 3, but we have had just a baby step back this year....and so on.

So we should shut up and accept that we are mediocre. One NCAA trip in 4 years, bottom tier in BEast, etc. Wake up Sports Fans, that ain't what the Duke Wonderboy is here for and getting paid for.

1 NCAA Tournament in 4 years when the best player he was left with was Duane Wilson or Luke Fischer in year one is probably right where we should be.

tower912 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2018, 12:03:37 PM »

How long was the shot clock during KO's time at MU? 45 seconds and then 35 seconds. If you hold the ball on offense and methodically work it into your bigs (the 3 pt shot was not as integral as it is today), limiting the number of possessions, you give up fewer points per game. See: Ryan, Bo

WarriorDad · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2018, 12:09:33 PM »

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2018, 11:45:10 AM

Love the excuses,,,,we will be great next year....we are in the BEast which is not cupcake city.....Wojo made the NCAA in year 3, but we have had just a baby step back this year....and so on.

So we should shut up and accept that we are mediocre. One NCAA trip in 4 years, bottom tier in BEast, etc. Wake up Sports Fans, that ain't what the Duke Wonderboy is here for and getting paid for.

NIT this year was my thought. Too much lost from last year. Love the future, but next year he will have to finish in top of half of conference and should in my opinion. From there I expect annual top 5 conf finishes as the program gets rolling. You can call youth and size an excuse, it also looks factual to me.

warriorfred · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2018, 02:48:20 PM »

Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 04, 2018, 10:27:05 AM

What O'Neill did with the resources he had was fairly amazing. Comparing the resources MU offered O'Neill to work with to what Wojo has are night and day. In fact, I'm not sure a coach with Wojo's pedigree would have ever taken the MU job back in the early 90's. It was not only a complete rebuild on the court but with a very mid-major budget and facilities (Old Gym for practice )

This times a 1000. O'Neill had virtually no resources. I am not sure the Marquette was committed to basketball at that point in time, and yet he led them to back-to-back NCAAs.

Wojo has infinitely more resources, and started in a much better position.

I give Wojo credit for the work he has done, but i am not seeing a dramatic turnaround. Maybe I should not have expected one?

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Author Topic: The O'Neill Standard (Read 2256 times)