A little good news about Chicago

[Tugg Speedman]

Chicago correctly gets kicked in the teeth about its many problems.  So let's take a moment and note some the postive things that are happening.


‘War-Torn’ Chicago Is More Popular With Tourists Than Ever
The Windy City, poster child for urban violence, has welcomed a record number of visitors in the last two years.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-22/chicago-is-more-popular-with-tourists-than-ever

Chicago, described by President Trump and others as a hellish, dystopian crime scene akin to a “war-torn nation” and “worse than Afghanistan” is about to shatter all of its tourism records, including the one it set last year.

An abundance of creative energy is driving this renaissance: The growing skyline is getting filled with increasingly stylish hotels, and a new Riverwalk that resembles New York’s High Line is daring locals to stay outside well past summer’s end. Its long-famous museums are gaining scrappy rivals, and two gleaming new theaters are reminding Americans of the city’s prowess on-stage.

Add in the food scene—Bon Appetit named Chicago the best restaurant city of the year—and the only art-and-architecture biennial in the United States, which kicked off its second iteration last week, and it’s easy to forget that this burgeoning hub of 2.7 million is also making headlines for its homicide rates.

[GooooMarquette]

Would never live there again, but they're right - it's a great place to visit.

[warriorchick]

I must admit that my trip along the River Walk to and from my office is the best part of my work day.




It still doesn't come close to making up for the massive suckiness that is working and living in Chicagoland.

[real chili 83]

Only 34 people shot last night in Chicago. 

[WarriorDad]

Only 34 people shot last night in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-lake-shore-drive-wrigley-protest-20180801-story.html

[dgies9156]

There is an enormous number of positive and wonderful things going on in Chicago. In fact, the city's and the region's advantages should be driving the national economy. Our higher education is incredible. Our access to transportation, natural resources, water and the resourcefulness of our people make Chicago the nation's best place to go to make things and build things.

People like the place as much as they ever had.

But Chicago's economy largely is slow growth. Until we find a way to solve the public pension problems and to improve the overall quality of government in Illinois, the city risks losing the competitive advantage from its location, population and natural resources. The fact that we have too many people in Chicago shot during an average week (one is too many), that the schools for too many students are deplorable and too much of the city wants to go back to 1955 is driving too much creative energy out and to backwater places like... well, I won't say LOL.

Illinois is losing about 70,000 people net a year. Until the state wants to solve that problem, its economy will stagnate.

[Chili]

Just built a brand new house in Chicago and wouldn't look back. Unless I'm moving to Denver or Portland I wouldn't want to go anywhere else.

[real chili 83]

2’hours from downtown to western burbs on Friday. Just brutal.

[MU82]

2’hours from downtown to western burbs on Friday. Just brutal.

We moved from Chicago to Charlotte 8 years ago this month.

We miss a lot of things about Chicago, mostly:

1. Our son, who still lives on the North Side and got married a few months back to a great young lady.

2. Our friends. You live somewhere for 16 years, you develop many close friendships. I had a regular golf group, a regular poker group, and my wife and I had many couples friends.

3. The walkability. I used to walk pretty much everywhere, including to work a lot of the time. My wife walked to work every day. Where we couldn't walk, we often took the el or bus. It was an easy town to get around without ever turning the key in our car, which we sometimes left parked for weeks without ever moving it.

4. The vitality. I used to love taking a walk in Lincoln Park or just around our neighborhood. People everywhere, at all times of day. I always felt Chicago was "alive."

5. The eats. Charlotte has improved but it is still not close.

6. The sports scene and music scene.

7. Proximity to MU. I didn't have season tickets because I couldn't go to enough games to justify it, but I could make the relatively easy drive to Milwaukee for any game I wanted to attend.

There are a few things I definitely do not miss: the weather, the dirty politics, the cost of living, etc. ... but No. 1 definitely was the traffic.

I HATED driving in Chicago. HATED IT! When we go back to visit our son and I'm driving around town, I can feel my blood pressure rise. And unlike a lot of big cities, the traffic is bad most hours of most days no matter which direction one travels.

When folks would visit us, they couldn't get over how bad the "reverse commute" was: "It's 4 o'clock and I'm trying to drive into the city. It shouldn't be this bad!"

There is rush-hour traffic in Charlotte, to be sure. It is one of America's fastest-growing cities and they have not figured out how to best move people. There is little public transit. But I laugh when I hear people complain about their 15-mile, 30-minute commute into downtown. That same trip in Chicago would take an hour - or maybe twice that some days.

[real chili 83]

We moved from Chicago to Charlotte 8 years ago this month.

We miss a lot of things about Chicago, mostly:

1. Our son, who still lives on the North Side and got married a few months back to a great young lady.

2. Our friends. You live somewhere for 16 years, you develop many close friendships. I had a regular golf group, a regular poker group, and my wife and I had many couples friends.

3. The walkability. I used to walk pretty much everywhere, including to work a lot of the time. My wife walked to work every day. Where we couldn't walk, we often took the el or bus. It was an easy town to get around without ever turning the key in our car, which we sometimes left parked for weeks without ever moving it.

4. The vitality. I used to love taking a walk in Lincoln Park or just around our neighborhood. People everywhere, at all times of day. I always felt Chicago was "alive."

5. The eats. Charlotte has improved but it is still not close.

6. The sports scene and music scene.

7. Proximity to MU. I didn't have season tickets because I couldn't go to enough games to justify it, but I could make the relatively easy drive to Milwaukee for any game I wanted to attend.

There are a few things I definitely do not miss: the weather, the dirty politics, the cost of living, etc. ... but No. 1 definitely was the traffic.

I HATED driving in Chicago. HATED IT! When we go back to visit our son and I'm driving around town, I can feel my blood pressure rise. And unlike a lot of big cities, the traffic is bad most hours of most days no matter which direction one travels.

When folks would visit us, they couldn't get over how bad the "reverse commute" was: "It's 4 o'clock and I'm trying to drive into the city. It shouldn't be this bad!"

There is rush-hour traffic in Charlotte, to be sure. It is one of America's fastest-growing cities and they have not figured out how to best move people. There is little public transit. But I laugh when I hear people complain about their 15-mile, 30-minute commute into downtown. That same trip in Chicago would take an hour - or maybe twice that some days.

That was well said.

One thing to add.  DO  NOT shop at the Walmart or the Sam’s Club on Joliet and LaGrange on a Saturday. Effing Chaos.

[Eldon]

Just built a brand new house in Chicago and wouldn't look back. Unless I'm moving to Denver or Portland I wouldn't want to go anywhere else.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/U4hShMEk1Ew" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/U4hShMEk1Ew</a>

You missin the 90s, bro?

[PorkysButthole]

Chicago correctly gets kicked in the teeth about its many problems.  So let's take a moment and note some the postive things that are happening.


‘War-Torn’ Chicago Is More Popular With Tourists Than Ever
The Windy City, poster child for urban violence, has welcomed a record number of visitors in the last two years.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-22/chicago-is-more-popular-with-tourists-than-ever

Chicago, described by President Trump and others as a hellish, dystopian crime scene akin to a “war-torn nation” and “worse than Afghanistan” is about to shatter all of its tourism records, including the one it set last year.

An abundance of creative energy is driving this renaissance: The growing skyline is getting filled with increasingly stylish hotels, and a new Riverwalk that resembles New York’s High Line is daring locals to stay outside well past summer’s end. Its long-famous museums are gaining scrappy rivals, and two gleaming new theaters are reminding Americans of the city’s prowess on-stage.

Add in the food scene—Bon Appetit named Chicago the best restaurant city of the year—and the only art-and-architecture biennial in the United States, which kicked off its second iteration last week, and it’s easy to forget that this burgeoning hub of 2.7 million is also making headlines for its homicide rates.

And just this morning another negative story.....

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/05/us/chicago-weekend-shootings/index.html

It's fantastic but hardly surprising that Tourism in Chicago is thriving.  It's a wonderful city, particularly in the summer time, and sad though it may be to say, as long as the mayhem continues to be confined to the far south and west sides, I don't see that changing anytime soon due to the vastness of the city and the fact that tourists don't go these areas.

What I do find curious is why Chicago hasn't experienced the rapid and extreme gentrification that the outer boroughs of NYC has over the last 20 years.  There are still small pockets of dangerous areas but in general there aren't many unsafe areas of Brooklyn or Queens anymore.  The Bronx is basically the last frontier and although some say it will never happen, it's already starting to there as well.

Why hasn't this occurred in Chicago?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What I do find curious is why Chicago hasn't experienced the rapid and extreme gentrification that the outer boroughs of NYC has over the last 20 years.  There are still small pockets of dangerous areas but in general there aren't many unsafe areas of Brooklyn or Queens anymore.  The Bronx is basically the last frontier and although some say it will never happen, it's already starting to there as well.

Why hasn't this occurred in Chicago?

I blame Frank and the rest of the Gallaghers.

[Galway Eagle]

And just this morning another negative story.....

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/05/us/chicago-weekend-shootings/index.html

It's fantastic but hardly surprising that Tourism in Chicago is thriving.  It's a wonderful city, particularly in the summer time, and sad though it may be to say, as long as the mayhem continues to be confined to the far south and west sides, I don't see that changing anytime soon due to the vastness of the city and the fact that tourists don't go these areas.

What I do find curious is why Chicago hasn't experienced the rapid and extreme gentrification that the outer boroughs of NYC has over the last 20 years.  There are still small pockets of dangerous areas but in general there aren't many unsafe areas of Brooklyn or Queens anymore.  The Bronx is basically the last frontier and although some say it will never happen, it's already starting to there as well.

Why hasn't this occurred in Chicago?

See Logan Square, Wicker Park, East Humboldt Park, South Loop and Pilsen. All have dramatically changed over the past 20yrs. Notice outside of the south loop every other neighborhood has been traditionally Hispanic before gentrification. So that's different than say NYC

[PorkysButthole]

See Logan Square, Wicker Park, East Humboldt Park, South Loop and Pilsen. All have dramatically changed over the past 20yrs. Notice outside of the south loop every other neighborhood has been traditionally Hispanic before gentrification. So that's different than say NYC

Interesting Thanks.  Porky is from and currently lives in NYC so not as familiar with Chicago although has spent plently of time there visiting alum friends over the years, some of whom have lived in these areas you mention so I guess what I meant was yes change has occurred there, but generally in neighborhoods much closer to downtown.   Does anyone see this extending to the far south sides areas like Englewood, Back of the Yards, Austin, etc.  There are areas of Brooklyn that  20 years ago you couldn't walk 10 feet without seeing syringes that have completely transformed, and what's interesting is that these aren't just former industrial areas right over the river from Manhattan where you would expect that, but areas very far out that are over an hour subway ride to midtown Manhattan.

I would add that it would be great if this gentrification can actually benefit the existing population and doesn't cause massive displacement as it has in NYC.  That's been a major downside, here but I suspect this might be easier to accomplish there.  I know the former President Obama is working on some projects realted to this but there has been backlash apparently which doesn't make much sense assuming his intention isn't just to improve the place for college educated folks to patronize artisanal mayonnaise joints and their ilk.   SNL even addressed this in a sketch with Kevin Hart.   The neighborhood they're referring to in this sketch has completely transformed.....much more so when this sketch first came out a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAsBta25OGQ

[Galway Eagle]

Interesting Thanks.  Porky is from and currently lives in NYC so not as familiar with Chicago although has spent plently of time there visiting alum friends over the years, some of whom have lived in these areas you mention so I guess what I meant was yes change has occurred there, but generally in neighborhoods much closer to downtown.   Does anyone see this extending to the far south sides areas like Englewood, Back of the Yards, Austin, etc.  There are areas of Brooklyn that  20 years ago you couldn't walk 10 feet without seeing syringes that have completely transformed, and what's interesting is that these aren't just former industrial areas right over the river from Manhattan where you would expect that, but areas very far out that are over an hour subway ride to midtown Manhattan.

I would add that it would be great if this gentrification can actually benefit the existing population and doesn't cause massive displacement as it has in NYC.  That's been a major downside, here but I suspect this might be easier to accomplish there.  I know the former President Obama is working on some projects realted to this but there has been backlash apparently which doesn't make much sense assuming his intention isn't just to improve the place for college educated folks to patronize artisanal mayonnaise joints and their ilk.   SNL even addressed this in a sketch with Kevin Hart.   The neighborhood they're referring to in this sketch has completely transformed.....much more so when this sketch first came out a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAsBta25OGQ

Personal thought is no, Chicago has more gang members than every other city out there and almost 3x more than  NYC. That makes gentrification difficult because it's less of just living in a crappy neighborhood and investing in that area to needing to break up a gang that in their mind truly owns a territory. But hey Humboldt Park is where the Latin kings originated and half of that has been gentrified so anything's possible with time and the right amount of brave artsy folks.

[Billy Hoyle]

And just this morning another negative story.....

es to be confined to the far south and west sides, I don't see that changing anytime soon due to the vastness of the city and the fact that tourists don't go these areas.

What I do find curious is why Chicago hasn't experienced the rapid and extreme gentrification that the outer boroughs of NYC has over the last 20 years.  There are still small pockets of dangerous areas but in general, there aren't many unsafe areas of Brooklyn or Queens anymore.  The Bronx is basically the last frontier and although some say it will never happen, it's already starting to there as well.

Why hasn't this occurred in Chicago?

Purely a guess as I am not too familiar with Chicago, Chicago, and the metropolitan area is far more amenable to sprawl and is a more car friendly city than NYC.  NYC regentrification is also driven by housing costs.  Groups of people couldn't afford to live in Manhattan anymore, so they went to Brooklyn. Now they cannot afford Brooklyn so Queens is the next frontier for affordable housing and it is often clustered around transit stops.  The midwestern mindset is that people want more room, they want a yard, they don't care about driving to work. I would venture that is the difference.

[GGGG]

I would add that it would be great if this gentrification can actually benefit the existing population and doesn't cause massive displacement as it has in NYC. 

I'm not sure that's possible anywhere.  Milwaukee has gone through the same thing.  Parts of the city are completely different then they were 20 years ago, but its made some of the more established neighborhood relatively poorer.  I just don't see how that changes.

[dgies9156]

Interesting Thanks.  Porky is from and currently lives in NYC so not as familiar with Chicago although has spent plently of time there visiting alum friends over the years, some of whom have lived in these areas you mention so I guess what I meant was yes change has occurred there, but generally in neighborhoods much closer to downtown.   Does anyone see this extending to the far south sides areas like Englewood, Back of the Yards, Austin, etc.  There are areas of Brooklyn that  20 years ago you couldn't walk 10 feet without seeing syringes that have completely transformed, and what's interesting is that these aren't just former industrial areas right over the river from Manhattan where you would expect that, but areas very far out that are over an hour subway ride to midtown Manhattan.

I would add that it would be great if this gentrification can actually benefit the existing population and doesn't cause massive displacement as it has in NYC.  That's been a major downside, here but I suspect this might be easier to accomplish there.  I know the former President Obama is working on some projects realted to this but there has been backlash apparently which doesn't make much sense assuming his intention isn't just to improve the place for college educated folks to patronize artisanal mayonnaise joints and their ilk.   SNL even addressed this in a sketch with Kevin Hart.   The neighborhood they're referring to in this sketch has completely transformed.....much more so when this sketch first came out a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAsBta25OGQ

Brother Pork, it's possible that the gentrification could continue southward to the city line. As someone else pointed out, President Obama's library will be along the south shore near the University of Chicago. There is a large patch of lakefront real estate formerly the home of US Steel's South Works plant that mostly is unoccupied. It's partially redeveloped and is waiting for the right circumstance, meaning, the right payoff. Mass Transit and highway lines from much of the South Side to the Loop and Near North Side are outstanding. Taylor Homes and Stateway Gardens (the beehive public housing projects that used to be along the Dan Ryan) are gone. As a consequence, neighborhoods like Bronzeville, east of the DRE, are coming to life again.

There's also the Pullman neighborhood, which is an urban national park on the south side. The buildings date to more than 100 years ago when the Pullman Company built sleeping cars on the south side. George Pullman built a wide range of housing near his plant so his workers could live close to his plant and rent from the company. Only recently has Pullman begun to be rediscovered. The neighborhoods around Pullman are, charitably, somewhat rough.

There are significant cultural institutions along the South Side, including the University of Chicago, Illinois Institute of Technology and the Chicago White Sox, as well as the Museum Campus and even McCormick Place/Soldier Field that can be a huge driver of change.

Keep in mind that in the early 1990s, the area just south of the University of Illinois at Chicago was skid row and generally a serious threat to life and limb to traverse without an armored personnel carrier. Now, the area is a growing and attractive community. Bridgeport, home to the Irish Political Mafia that ruled Chicago forever, has found itself with $750,000+ houses. Many of the close-in communities that have exceptional links to the city have started to go upscale.

Brother Pork, there are two huge issues if the gentrification is to continue southward. First, the political will at city hall has to be there. The Rahmfather and his team have to push it and want it. Candidly, that desire is really not there outside the core center city. Since Richard I (1955-1976), the city has focused on the downtown and the buffer communities and not really pushed south. That kinda changed with R2D2 but nobody wants to challenge the African American power base on the south side. Especially with an election next March and the Rahmfather's chances in doubt due to the cover-up of an awful police murder video.

Secondly, the local alderman have to want it as well and I guarantee you, they do not. Many of these aldermen are well entrenched in their positions, have strong community support and know that if the community's demographics change, so too does their chance of automatically being re-elected. These are the descendents of the people who opposed teardown of Taylor Homes and Stateway Gardens on grounds it would dilute their political base.

Everything in Chicago is highly political and nothing gets done without aldermanic blessing. This city is violently corrupt and hides its venality behind a facade of progressiveness.

As Mike Royko once wrote, the motto of Chicago needs to change from Urbs in Hotro ("City in a Garden") to Ubi Est Mia ("Where's Mine").

[JWags85]

Purely a guess as I am not too familiar with Chicago, Chicago, and the metropolitan area is far more amenable to sprawl and is a more car friendly city than NYC.  NYC regentrification is also driven by housing costs.  Groups of people couldn't afford to live in Manhattan anymore, so they went to Brooklyn. Now they cannot afford Brooklyn so Queens is the next frontier for affordable housing and it is often clustered around transit stops.  The midwestern mindset is that people want more room, they want a yard, they don't care about driving to work. I would venture that is the difference.

This is a good take.  The density in Chicago and NY is just very different.  You don't have to get far from Chicago's "center" for it to not feel as densely urban, whereas you need to go quite a ways in NY.  NY runs out of space so they either have to build upwards in height, or gentrify.  Chicago can keep moving outward.

Refreshing lack of "CHICAGO IS SO VIOLENT, OMG", thankfully.  You have a much dicier potential experience going from the highway at North Ave to Lakefront Brewery than you would going into Chicago.  The last 2 times my residence in Chicago, and how "dangerous the city is, came up to people from Milwaukee, neither commenter had been in Chicago, beyond driving by on 94, in almost a decade.

But completely agree on the corruption aspect.  The city will never truly reach its apex due to the cancerous political foundation.  Much like a developing country that has made great strides, but is built around bribery and graft which caps potential.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

You have a much dicier potential experience going from the highway at North Ave to Lakefront Brewery than you would going into Chicago. 

Ha ha, I did exactly that on my last visit to Lakefront.  Stupid Apple maps.

[WhiteTrash]

Just built a brand new house in Chicago and wouldn't look back. Unless I'm moving to Denver or Portland I wouldn't want to go anywhere else.

As a former Chicagoan and current Denver resident..... please keep Dever off your radar. Just kidding.  This is a great place.  More sunny days than Phoenix,  stable state government and finances,  great schools  and lots of fun things to do. The fine arts are nothing compared to Chicago but are getting better every year.

[Galway Eagle]

Oops wrong thread both times

[Galway Eagle]

Nm

[PorkysButthole]

Brother Pork, it's possible that the gentrification could continue southward to the city line. As someone else pointed out, President Obama's library will be along the south shore near the University of Chicago. There is a large patch of lakefront real estate formerly the home of US Steel's South Works plant that mostly is unoccupied. It's partially redeveloped and is waiting for the right circumstance, meaning, the right payoff. Mass Transit and highway lines from much of the South Side to the Loop and Near North Side are outstanding. Taylor Homes and Stateway Gardens (the beehive public housing projects that used to be along the Dan Ryan) are gone. As a consequence, neighborhoods like Bronzeville, east of the DRE, are coming to life again.

There's also the Pullman neighborhood, which is an urban national park on the south side. The buildings date to more than 100 years ago when the Pullman Company built sleeping cars on the south side. George Pullman built a wide range of housing near his plant so his workers could live close to his plant and rent from the company. Only recently has Pullman begun to be rediscovered. The neighborhoods around Pullman are, charitably, somewhat rough.

There are significant cultural institutions along the South Side, including the University of Chicago, Illinois Institute of Technology and the Chicago White Sox, as well as the Museum Campus and even McCormick Place/Soldier Field that can be a huge driver of change.

Keep in mind that in the early 1990s, the area just south of the University of Illinois at Chicago was skid row and generally a serious threat to life and limb to traverse without an armored personnel carrier. Now, the area is a growing and attractive community. Bridgeport, home to the Irish Political Mafia that ruled Chicago forever, has found itself with $750,000+ houses. Many of the close-in communities that have exceptional links to the city have started to go upscale.

Brother Pork, there are two huge issues if the gentrification is to continue southward. First, the political will at city hall has to be there. The Rahmfather and his team have to push it and want it. Candidly, that desire is really not there outside the core center city. Since Richard I (1955-1976), the city has focused on the downtown and the buffer communities and not really pushed south. That kinda changed with R2D2 but nobody wants to challenge the African American power base on the south side. Especially with an election next March and the Rahmfather's chances in doubt due to the cover-up of an awful police murder video.

Secondly, the local alderman have to want it as well and I guarantee you, they do not. Many of these aldermen are well entrenched in their positions, have strong community support and know that if the community's demographics change, so too does their chance of automatically being re-elected. These are the descendents of the people who opposed teardown of Taylor Homes and Stateway Gardens on grounds it would dilute their political base.

Everything in Chicago is highly political and nothing gets done without aldermanic blessing. This city is violently corrupt and hides its venality behind a facade of progressiveness.

As Mike Royko once wrote, the motto of Chicago needs to change from Urbs in Hotro ("City in a Garden") to Ubi Est Mia ("Where's Mine").

Thanks for the very thorough explanation and education!   After looking at google maps street view pics of where some of these incidents occurred and the surrounding area, I was struck by how innocuous most of these neighborhoods look, particularly the south side ones.   Many outwardly appear to be garden variety lower middle class neighborhoods with single family homes.  In NYC, it's almost entirely apartment buildings so the density is on a completely different different scale.  They also look at least at first glance to be far more intimidating and hood like than most of these neighborhoods in Chicago, but obviously they're nowhere near as bad they just look like they are

[real chili 83]

Shootings from last weekend are over 70 with at least 14 dead. 

My next comments are not intended as political.   Rocket, Jockey, Jamie, please don’t go there. 

The reasons for this go incredibly deep in our society.  However, this feels almost like terrorism.  Are stronger measures required?

[JWags85]

Shootings from last weekend are over 70 with at least 14 dead. 

My next comments are not intended as political.   Rocket, Jockey, Jamie, please don’t go there. 

The reasons for this go incredibly deep in our society.  However, this feels almost like terrorism.  Are stronger measures required?

Its not so much terrorism cause its so contained, and its really not done to impact a greater group.  It really is a different world.

I may have shared this before, but one of my good friends in Chicago is African American and grew up in Ravenswood, however, both of his elderly parents are from the South Side, Englewood and Auburn Gresham.  As a result, he still has extended family there.  He once told me, he has cousins in their 20s who have never left Illinois, and crazier still, the only time they came to visit him in Ravenswood, they went to a diner, and his cousins, 20 and 22 at the time, had never had a waiter/waitress serve them at a table before that meal.  Its truly so incomparable to the rest of what most of us know as Chicago.  Its a ghetto in the truest sense of the word, not just in the pejorative usage for a less than desirable area.

Its much more of a contained civil war than it is terrorism.

[forgetful]

Shootings from last weekend are over 70 with at least 14 dead. 

My next comments are not intended as political.   Rocket, Jockey, Jamie, please don’t go there. 

The reasons for this go incredibly deep in our society.  However, this feels almost like terrorism.  Are stronger measures required?

Just a general comment.  This weekend in Chicago was horrendous, but cities like Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans, Memphis, Oakland, Milwaukee, Detroit and actually quite a few others have significantly higher violent crime rates and murder rates than Chicago. 

Chicago gets the attention because of sheer numbers and the fact that it is concentrated in a few areas, but many cities are have far more violent crime. 

[MUEng92]

More sunny days than Phoenix

Do they have that on a pamphlet that they hand out when you move to Denver?

At my high school reunion Saturday my friend who lives in a Denver suburb said that same exact sentence.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Do they have that on a pamphlet that they hand out when you move to Denver?

At my high school reunion Saturday my friend who lives in a Denver suburb said that same exact sentence.

Every day can be sunny when you are high as a kite, aina?

[muwarrior69]

...but the worst part about Chicago is that Marquette University is in Milwaukee.

[Galway Eagle]

...but the worst part about Chicago is that Marquette University is in Milwaukee.

It is always a pain to get to those far suburbs

[WarriorDad]

This doesn't help, either.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/07/chicago-gun-violence-homicide-clearance/925630002/

[warriorchick]

Yesterday morning, they pulled a dead body out of the river a block away from where I work.

Good times.

[WhiteTrash]

Do they have that on a pamphlet that they hand out when you move to Denver?

At my high school reunion Saturday my friend who lives in a Denver suburb said that same exact sentence.

Lol! It must be. What can I say? People like it here.

[JWags85]

Yesterday morning, they pulled a dead body out of the river a block away from where I work.

Good times.

Thats not fair.  That seems like no foul play at all.  He was a South Loop resident.  To group that with violence on the South Side is the same clickbait sensationalism that people use to make the whole of Chicago seem scary.

[Galway Eagle]

Thats not fair.  That seems like no foul play at all.  He was a South Loop resident.  To group that with violence on the South Side is the same clickbait sensationalism that people use to make the whole of Chicago seem scary.

I started to write this as well. Suicide and accidents can happen anywhere.

[jsglow]

I'm not going to get into an argument with all you guys and I'm not commenting on Chicago's status as a great city.  I will simply tell you that Chick and I will be happy to leave when the time comes.  I think our ultimate decision to leave is mostly centered on the political corruption and patronage that has been discussed throughout this thread, particularly by dgies.  I sincerely believe it is at the core of most of the problems Chicago and Illinois face.  None of this will be satisfactorily fixed in our lifetime so to hang around when we don't have any family ties here doesn't make sense for us.

[Galway Eagle]

I will simply tell you that Chick and I will be happy to leave the suburbs when the time comes. 

FIFY

[jsglow]

FIFY

I've lived in the City proper before Bags, but yes, you are technically correct.  Look, it's your hometown, I get it.  Still, many of the challenges that exist around here aren't Chicago specific but more Illinois related.  The inability to fix the public union pension mess, for example.  Staying and paying for that doesn't make sense for us.  We're not going to California or New York either.

[Jockey]

Thats not fair.  That seems like no foul play at all.  He was a South Loop resident.  To group that with violence on the South Side is the same clickbait sensationalism that people use to make the whole of Chicago seem scary.

But.... accidents don't happen in other cities.

[mu03eng]

One thing I did not know about Illinois and/or Chicago......retirement income is not taxed. My parents still leave on a far NW suburb of Chicago and I keep trying to talk them into moving into Wisconsin to be closer (free babysitting is the best). But they won't move because all of their retirement income (pensions from the private and public sectors) is tax free. I'm shocked that Illinois hasn't gone after retirement money as a way to fix budget holes...anyone know why they haven't?

[Pakuni]

I'm shocked that Illinois hasn't gone after retirement money as a way to fix budget holes...anyone know why they haven't?

Old people vote.

[WarriorDad]

I started to write this as well. Suicide and accidents can happen anywhere.

So can shootings, robberies, and anything else though, right?

[Galway Eagle]

So can shootings, robberies, and anything else though, right?

Yeah. what's your point?

[dgies9156]

Still, many of the challenges that exist around here aren't Chicago specific but more Illinois related.  The inability to fix the public union pension mess, for example.  Staying and paying for that doesn't make sense for us.  We're not going to California or New York either.

Brother Glow,I would take issue with only one point you raise. You can't be "Illinois related" without being Chicago specific. There are 12 million people, give or take,  in the State of Illinois. Of that amount, the vast majority live north of Interstate 80 and east of the Fox River.

Go south of  I-80 or west of the Fox River and you have a population density that makes Iowa look crowded.

To those of you who say Brother Glow doesn't live in Chicago because he lives in the suburbs, poppycock. We are all paying for it. Representative Madigan just won't let us have a say in governing it.
 

[warriorchick]

One thing I did not know about Illinois and/or Chicago......retirement income is not taxed. My parents still leave on a far NW suburb of Chicago and I keep trying to talk them into moving into Wisconsin to be closer (free babysitting is the best). But they won't move because all of their retirement income (pensions from the private and public sectors) is tax free. I'm shocked that Illinois hasn't gone after retirement money as a way to fix budget holes...anyone know why they haven't?

Eng, if your parents haven't actually crunched the numbers on this,  I would encourage them to do so.  Once you factor in the higher cost of living and higher property and sales tax rates, my guess is they aren't saving as much money as they think.  The irony of Illinois' pension mess is that many of its recipients do indeed live out of state - so Illinois doesn't even receive any of the economic benefits of the spending of those pension dollars.

Also, ask them if they can actually put a price on spending more time with their grandchild.   

[dgies9156]

Eng, if your parents haven't actually crunched the numbers on this,  I would encourage them to do so.  Once you factor in the higher cost of living and higher property and sales tax rates, my guess is they aren't saving as much money as they think.

Also, ask them if they can actually put a price on spending more time with their grandchild.   

So, to where are you and Brother Glow retiring?

The Gulch?

The Third Ward? or

Florida?

Incidentally, that's an absolutely wonderful guilt trip a son or daughter can put on their parents when inexpensive child care is needed!!!!!

[warriorchick]

So, to where are you and Brother Glow retiring?

The Gulch?

The Third Ward? or

Florida?

Incidentally, that's an absolutely wonderful guilt trip a son or daughter can put on their parents when inexpensive child care is needed!!!!!

Well we have our place in Vegas, which has no state income tax on anything, so you know we will be spending at least six months and one day there.   

The rest of the time will probably be in Wisconsin at a location to be named later.