More Signs Football Has Peaked In Popularity

[GGGG]

We are in complete agreement on your last sentence.  As you will see in my responses, I did not say one side was right or wrong.  However, I did point to the other side of the story which was not presented here and most definitely not presented in our media.  It was supposition, cops dirty, race bating, etc.  How many here or in the press automatically took Mr. Bennett's words as true, claiming that version or side was correct?  Or espousing that police purposely didn't turn on body cameras? 

Maybe what Mr. Bennett said was true, but as is almost always the case there are other sides to the story, usually many sides.  The quick rush to judgment here and in the media often forgets this.  We should do better, but you are correct that no one here has any idea what happened that night, but I'm glad to have provided some additional view points since so many already made up their minds.

Who here quickly rushed to judgement believing Bennett's version of events?

[rocket surgeon]

  "The quick rush to judgment here and in the media often forgets this"

  that's putting it nicely 4/5.  ohhhh, they don't forget.  it's called censorship.  censorship is not only disallowing certain viewpoints, but NOT reporting it as well.

   this is where the media is really putting everyone, police included, in harms way.  by telling everyone it was michael bennett being "mistreated" and it was racial and...just fuels the fire for antifa et.al

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We are in complete agreement on your last sentence.  As you will see in my responses, I did not say one side was right or wrong.  However, I did point to the other side of the story which was not presented here and most definitely not presented in our media.  It was supposition, cops dirty, race bating, etc.  How many here or in the press automatically took Mr. Bennett's words as true, claiming that version or side was correct?  Or espousing that police purposely didn't turn on body cameras? 

Maybe what Mr. Bennett said was true, but as is almost always the case there are other sides to the story, usually many sides.  The quick rush to judgment here and in the media often forgets this.  We should do better, but you are correct that no one here has any idea what happened that night, but I'm glad to have provided some additional view points since so many already made up their minds.

Personally, I've heard just as much "the cops are definitely right and Bennett is definitely lying" as the opposite. But I live in rural Texas so that might be a factor.

[StillAWarrior]

Last night I attended a fund raiser in Canton, and had to drive by the Hall of Fame on the way there.  I was surprised to see what looked like literally hundreds of flags around the HOF grounds.  When talking about it at the dinner, I estimated that it was at least 500 flags.  Turns out I was a few hundred short.  It was quite striking, really.

I'm sure this means something.  I'll leave it to others to hash that out.  I just thought it was interesting in light of the issues being debated in a couple of these threads.

[Babybluejeans]

Ratings down in 18 of 29 US markets

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/07/17/Media/MLB-ratings.aspx?

Last week's Sunday night baseball drew the smallest audience since 2013.

http://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/dodgers-nationals-terrible-ratings-espn-fox-last-weekend.html

Don't rebut Cheekz with facts. He will find a single wobbly anecdote that will "prove" you wrong. But that's standard for him and several others here. We can do better, all MU fans.

[B. McBannerson]

Personally, I've heard just as much "the cops are definitely right and Bennett is definitely lying" as the opposite. But I live in rural Texas so that might be a factor.

In the media you have?  The entity that drives the conversation in this country?  A simple google search going back to the first week of Bennett's incident will show that isn't the case in that medium.

[B. McBannerson]

Ratings down in 18 of 29 US markets

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/07/17/Media/MLB-ratings.aspx?

Last week's Sunday night baseball drew the smallest audience since 2013.

http://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/dodgers-nationals-terrible-ratings-espn-fox-last-weekend.html

You pulled last week's Sunday night game to extrapolate for the entire season?

You also pulled an article from July 17th, it's October today.  I'm talking about the national ratings of national games.  Your other article is about local games which are subject to how teams are doing in each market. The Royals, for example.  That is not what I was talking about, but since I didn't make that clear I can understand how you got here.   I am specifically talking about national baseball games on national broadcasts, which going into September were higher than last year.  Final numbers are not out yet.

[MU82]

Interesting take on the effects on AT&T's bottom line:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4110863-worry-nfl-thing?ifp=0&app=1

As in many articles on this investing site, comment stream is at least as interesting than article, despite containing some comments from both extremes.

[forgetful]

In the media you have?  The entity that drives the conversation in this country?  A simple google search going back to the first week of Bennett's incident will show that isn't the case in that medium.

Yes, in the media I have.  I've heard more criticism in the media around me, than I have support for what Bennett said. 

I actually never heard about it in the media until their was the response from the police essentially calling Bennett a liar.

A simple google search shows article after article published in major media around Sept. 7th providing the police perspective and refuting Bennett.  That was when I first heard about this story.  I haven't heard much about it since until the video just came out.

[Tugg Speedman]

No sport wraps itself in the flag more than NASCAR does. It is a lily-white sport owned by lily-white rich folks, filled with lily-white "athletes," watched by lily-white fans.

Despite all this patriotism, NASCAR ratings have been going down for years. This past season, they tanked. They would kill for the NFL's "ratings problem."

http://awfulannouncing.com/ratings/foxfs1-ends-2017-nascar-season-yet-another-ratings-low.html

Fox Sports has ended another NASCAR season and it continued its theme for 2017 finishing with another ratings low. The Monster Energy NASCAR Cup race at Sonoma on FS1 Sunday finished with a 2.0 final rating and 3.2 million viewers. That’s down 17% in ratings and viewership from last year (2.4/3.9 million).

That’s the lowest rating for the race dating back to 1998 and lowest viewership since 2002. Sports Media Watch points out that when the race aired on TNT in 2012, Sonoma had a 3.3 rating and 5.2 million viewers. For the season, Fox/FS1’s 15 Cup races either set or tied a multi-year ratings low. Twelve races set or tied multi-year viewership lows.

Whitey loves him some all-American patriotic sports! Plus, they've got Danica Patrick showing side boob in all kinds of advertisements.

How is that decline possible?

I won't even bother putting together a montage of photos showing NASCAR fans disrespecting the flag in all sorts of ways - wearing it as clothing, making doggie bandanas out of it, using it for tablecloths and - the down-home favorite - flying it on the same pole as the Confederate flag.

But those are some real patriots! Yee-haw!

You’re such an idiot, amazing you can survive in society.

[Pakuni]

Baltimore players kneel in prayer before (not during) the anthem and then stand for the anthem ... and get booed.
But remember, it's all about respect for the flag.

[Pakuni]

You pulled last week's Sunday night game to extrapolate for the entire season?

I pulled the latest ratings available. If you have something more recent, please post.

You also pulled an article from July 17th, it's October today.  I'm talking about the national ratings of national games.  Your other article is about local games which are subject to how teams are doing in each market. The Royals, for example.  That is not what I was talking about, but since I didn't make that clear I can understand how you got here.   I am specifically talking about national baseball games on national broadcasts, which going into September were higher than last year.  Final numbers are not out yet.

So you criticize me for not offering something more recent than the midseason ratings ... and then admit there's nothing more recent? Hmmm.

[GGGG]

Baltimore players kneel in prayer before (not during) the anthem and then stand for the anthem ... and get booed.
But remember, it's all about respect for the flag.

And NONE of this is about race...

[B. McBannerson]

Interesting take on the effects on AT&T's bottom line:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4110863-worry-nfl-thing?ifp=0&app=1

As in many articles on this investing site, comment stream is at least as interesting than article, despite containing some comments from both extremes.

Same website, different conclusion from day earlier.   https://seekingalpha.com/article/4110495-t-nfl-sunday-ticket-disaster

Likely they won't know until Q4.  If their math is right, all it would take is a few thousand cancellations to become a 7 digit revenue hit.  We'll never know as those companies don't release that kind of information.

[B. McBannerson]

I pulled the latest ratings available. If you have something more recent, please post.

So you criticize me for not offering something more recent than the midseason ratings ... and then admit there's nothing more recent? Hmmm.

You pulled one game.  Nielsen has ratings every day if you have a subscription.  You are referencing Sports Business which is a news source that hasn't gone to the trouble of aggregating the ratings.

The other flaw you have made several times on the NFL side is citing overnight HH ratings as if those are the same as metered market ratings which come in days later.  For example, last week the media was abuzz that ratings were up year over year due to the overnights.  By Wednesday night, when all the data came in, the actual Nielsen data showed a 3.7% drop year over year.  Of course, much of the media didn't bother to run that story with the actual data.

[B. McBannerson]

Yes, in the media I have.  I've heard more criticism in the media around me, than I have support for what Bennett said. 

I actually never heard about it in the media until their was the response from the police essentially calling Bennett a liar.

A simple google search shows article after article published in major media around Sept. 7th providing the police perspective and refuting Bennett.  That was when I first heard about this story.  I haven't heard much about it since until the video just came out.

OK.

Here is my reference point.  Let's start with his accusations that he was roughed up, excessive force and it was done because of his race.  That's where this started, Sept 6th with his claims.  That's what was reported in early articles and people jumping on that theme. 

Then, the police responded with their information, which is what you are referencing about.  That's phase two, I'm talking about the initial reactions after one side of the story was given. 

Then we had the back and forth of who is right, but as several have said, no one will know.  That didn't stop Slate from saying the police are smearing him. 

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2017/09/the_las_vegas_police_are_smearing_michael_bennett.html

Or this article in sporting news saying it was racial profiling  http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/michael-bennett-seahawks-police-cops-lawsuit-support-las-vegas-video/u7p8770ndhu219mvdslotp78n

Or ESPN's Smith from doing the same.   And dozens of others.  Countless rush to judgment that racial profiling was the cause when the facts hadn't come in.  My opinion.

Bennett says he will sue the Vegas Sheriff, which if he does will likely illicit additional information and more conjecture. 

[jesmu84]

OK.

Here is my reference point.  Let's start with his accusations that he was roughed up, excessive force and it was done because of his race.  That's where this started, Sept 6th with his claims.  That's what was reported in early articles and people jumping on that theme. 

Then, the police responded with their information, which is what you are referencing about.  That's phase two, I'm talking about the initial reactions after one side of the story was given. 

Then we had the back and forth of who is right, but as several have said, no one will know.  That didn't stop Slate from saying the police are smearing him. 

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2017/09/the_las_vegas_police_are_smearing_michael_bennett.html

Or this article in sporting news saying it was racial profiling  http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/michael-bennett-seahawks-police-cops-lawsuit-support-las-vegas-video/u7p8770ndhu219mvdslotp78n

Or ESPN's Smith from doing the same.   And dozens of others.  Countless rush to judgment that racial profiling was the cause when the facts hadn't come in.  My opinion.

Bennett says he will sue the Vegas Sheriff, which if he does will likely illicit additional information and more conjecture.

You seem to be focused more on media response to incidents.

Isn't the bigger issue racism, sexism, etc at large? With regards to NFL protests, you're focused again on media and portrayal. Shouldn't the far bigger discussion be on racism, etc and how to remove that from society?

[Tugg Speedman]

Baltimore players kneel in prayer before (not during) the anthem and then stand for the anthem ... and get booed.
But remember, it's all about respect for the flag.

And NONE of this is about race...

Ravens get booed for kneeling before anthem, stand during it
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/01/ravens-get-booed-for-kneeling-before-anthem-stand-during-it/

Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com reports that there was also a stadium announcement asking “for everyone to pray as a nation to embrace kindness, justice, unity and equality.”

The Steelers, who drew a lot of attention for their approach to the anthem last week, stood on the sideline while the song was playing this time around.

Here is the problem, the players no longer know why they are doing this anymore.  Last week was about "sticking it to Trump."  Before that, it was about praying for more dead cops, because that is what Kaepernick wanted (see below).

Now they redefining kneeling this week and we are all supposed to forget what it meant 7 days ago and go with this week's definition?.  What will be the reason for kneeling next week?  How about tonight's game, or Monday's game, what new definition of kneeling will those be about?

In the end, the "first mover" Kaepernick defined what this is all about.  And no matter what BS left-wing words about "justice" and "equality" that trot out this week, below is what inspired all of this and every time a players knee hits the ground, this is what they are supporting.  And this is why the booing and damage to the NFL will continue unto this all stops.

Colin Kaepernick’s Foundation Donates To Group Named After Convicted Cop-Killer Assata Shakur
Former 49ers QB gave $25,000 to radical group, Assata’s Daughters.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21753/colin-kaepernicks-foundation-donates-group-named-ryan-saavedra

@Kaepernick7
A system that perpetually condones the killing of people, without consequence, doesn't need to be revised, it needs to be dismantled!

Didn't all you guys agree with MU painting over the Assata murial last year and firing the prof that was advising the group that did it?

Why not apply the same standard to NFL players?  Or are they "allowed" to kneel in support of more dead cops?

[Tugg Speedman]

NFL ticket sales plummet 17.9%
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nfl-ticket-sales-plummet-179/article/2635955

The National Football League is feeling the impact of the "Trump Effect."

Ticket sales since he called on team owners to fire players who take a knee to protest the National Anthem have cratered.

The online ticket reseller TickPick told Secrets that sales have dropped 17.9 percent, far more than the usual Week Three fall.

From TickPick:

17.9 percent decrease in NFL orders this week compared to the previous week.

Last year the drop was 10.8 percent in orders on Monday & Tuesday following Week Three games.

"We have seen a massive decrease in NFL ticket purchases this past week in comparison to years past. Week 3 seems to usually have less ticket orders than week 2, but this year ticket purchases are down more than 7 percent from this time last year," said TickPick's Jack Slingland.

[Pakuni]

Ravens get booed for kneeling before anthem, stand during it
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/01/ravens-get-booed-for-kneeling-before-anthem-stand-during-it/

Jamison Hensley of ESPN.com reports that there was also a stadium announcement asking “for everyone to pray as a nation to embrace kindness, justice, unity and equality.”

The Steelers, who drew a lot of attention for their approach to the anthem last week, stood on the sideline while the song was playing this time around.

Here is the problem, the players no longer know why they are doing this anymore.  Last week was about "sticking it to Trump."  Before that, it was about praying for more dead cops, because that is what Kaepernick wanted (see below).

Now they redefining kneeling this week and we are all supposed to forget what it meant 7 days ago and go with this week's definition?.  What will be the reason for kneeling next week?  How about tonight's game, or Monday's game, what new definition of kneeling will those be about?

In the end, the "first mover" Kaepernick defined what this is all about.  And no matter what BS left-wing words about "justice" and "equality" that trot out this week, below is what inspired all of this and every time a players knee hits the ground, this is what they are supporting.  And this is why the booing and damage to the NFL will continue unto this all stops.

Colin Kaepernick’s Foundation Donates To Group Named After Convicted Cop-Killer Assata Shakur
Former 49ers QB gave $25,000 to radical group, Assata’s Daughters.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21753/colin-kaepernicks-foundation-donates-group-named-ryan-saavedra

@Kaepernick7
A system that perpetually condones the killing of people, without consequence, doesn't need to be revised, it needs to be dismantled!

Didn't all you guys agree with MU painting over the Assata murial last year and firing the prof that was advising the group that did it?

Why not apply the same standard to NFL players?  Or are they "allowed" to kneel in support of more dead cops?

Remember what I said about you twisting facts and distorting reality?
Case in point. Nobody in this discussion ever prayed for dead cops.
Have you no shame?
Try integrity once in a while, my man.

[Tugg Speedman]

Remember what I said about you twisting facts and distorting reality?
Case in point. Nobody in this discussion ever prayed for dead cops.
Have you no shame?
Try integrity once in a while, my man.

Go see some of Kaepernick's statements from last year.  Kap started all this and he defined the meaning of kneeling.

You only see what you want ... just enough to maintain your moral superiority perch.

[Pakuni]

Go see some of Kaepernick's statements from last year.  Kap started all this and he defined the meaning of kneeling.

You only see what you want ... just enough to maintain your moral superiority perch.

Show us where Kap prayed for dead cops.
Thanks

[forgetful]

Colin Kaepernick’s Foundation Donates To Group Named After Convicted Cop-Killer Assata Shakur
Former 49ers QB gave $25,000 to radical group, Assata’s Daughters.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21753/colin-kaepernicks-foundation-donates-group-named-ryan-saavedra

@Kaepernick7
A system that perpetually condones the killing of people, without consequence, doesn't need to be revised, it needs to be dismantled!

Didn't all you guys agree with MU painting over the Assata murial last year and firing the prof that was advising the group that did it?

Why not apply the same standard to NFL players?  Or are they "allowed" to kneel in support of more dead cops?

I'm not going to defend Assata, as she was clearly not an upstanding member of the community, but you should look into the history of her court case.  There are reasonable reasons people look at her as an example of bias in the legal system. 

There was an entire FBI division, who intentionally listed her as the chief suspect in any case that involved a black woman on the East coast regardless of any actual evidence.  The goal according to actual police officers was to brandish the young, intelligent black woman as a most-wanted criminal mastermind. 

In the case where she was convicted, the entire jury was white.  1/3rd of the jury had close relationships to state troopers.  The medical evidence said that she was shot with her arms up in a surrendering position.  And that the wounds would have rendered her incapable of firing a weapon.  Her fingerprints were not found on any weapon and her hands had no gunshot residue. 

Her attorney's office was bugged and robbed with key court materials stolen.  And much much more. 

There are two things that are absolutely certain.  She was a bad person.  She did not get a fair trial and suffered immense mistreatment in the legal system.

Now, the organization that he donated to uses peaceful demonstrations to protest police violence.  They also encourage and maintain community gardens to promote independence.  It is not a radical group. 

You either clearly have an agenda, or are incredibly uninformed about history and current events.  Or...both.

[B. McBannerson]

You seem to be focused more on media response to incidents.

Isn't the bigger issue racism, sexism, etc at large? With regards to NFL protests, you're focused again on media and portrayal. Shouldn't the far bigger discussion be on racism, etc and how to remove that from society?

Two fold answer.  The media drives the discussion, they aren't playing it even handed which they should be.  We can't ignore that or take the focus off that part.

Yes, it is important to understand what is going on, but Kap said originally this had to do with police actions against black men leading to deaths.  Why, then, are they not focusing on where they can do so much greater good for the minority community? The deaths of minorities at the hands of other minorities would save countless lives. Thousands of lives a year lost. 

Where should the focus be?  Attacking police?  Protesting an Anthem and flag?  Feels like the focus is lacking and where the most good can happen is within the community in my opinion.

[GGGG]

Two fold answer.  The media drives the discussion, they aren't playing it even handed which they should be.  We can't ignore that or take the focus off that part.

Yes, it is important to understand what is going on, but Kap said originally this had to do with police actions against black men leading to deaths.  Why, then, are they not focusing on where they can do so much greater good for the minority community? The deaths of minorities at the hands of other minorities would save countless lives. Thousands of lives a year lost. 

Where should the focus be?  Attacking police?  Protesting an Anthem and flag?  Feels like the focus is lacking and where the most good can happen is within the community in my opinion.

Ah, the ole "you are not supporting the right topic in the right way" line. 

Why are you so condescending?  He is protesting against something that is important to him.  And you think you know better?