Another shooting

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.

All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.

Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.

I don't disagree with your points. But do something. If if that doesn't work, try something else. The status quo clearly isn't working.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

82 and I are agreeing here.  From what the governor said, he was denied a Texas gun permit.

Look guys.  Take the defacto default political positions out of it for just a moment.

Vegas? Bump stocks, easy.

Guy from Uzbekistan?  I know some want 'open' borders but c'mon.  Easy.

Sutherland Springs?  I honestly don't know.

Look, it's not a total solution but I really believe that if everyone just backed off a bit in their daily discourse with other people we'd make a dent, even a little one. Maybe then the 1 in 1,000,000 creep who simply can't let anything go, I mean anything, is slightly less inclined to act in the ultimate extreme. 

It happens here on Scoop all the freakin' time.  Never give an inch.  Escalate.  Fight to the last breath.  And then personally attack someone with a different viewpoint.  I personally hate that world.

For grins I was reading the 'Best MU bars' thread from 2007 last night.  It was fun.  It was lively.  Everyone was having a good time.  I miss those days.

Now watch.  Someone will personally attack me for this position or statement.  And my response will simply be to turn off my computer and end my participation in a potentially productive conversation.  And again we accomplish nothing.  It really makes me sad.

He was denied a permit but he was still able to legally purchase weapons. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

[Benny B]

Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.

All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.

Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.

Frankly, our ideas don't matter.  Our way of life is shaped by thinktanks around the country whose philosophies are shaped by political parties & platforms and then sold to their respective halves as ideals, morals and values.

The only way anything changes in the country is when politics are placed aside and people demand that that philosophies be shaped ideals, morals and values.

Unfortunately, the branding of our political parties has become so entwined into society over the past 50 or so years that asking someone to place their political leanings aside would be like asking them to give up their individuality.

This is not a Democrat or Republican failure.  Democrats and Republicans are the failures.

[jsglow]

He was denied a permit but he was still able to legally purchase weapons. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

I don't think we know all the details yet Vander.  There may be some gaps to be filled in.  I don't want to speculate but of course it doesn't make sense and that would be another EASY.

[GGGG]

I don't disagree with your points. But do something. If if that doesn't work, try something else. The status quo clearly isn't working.

That's exactly the thing that frustrates me most.  Try something.  You don't need to have the perfect answer to start. 

[Hards Alumni]

Frankly, our ideas don't matter.  Our way of life is shaped by thinktanks around the country whose philosophies are shaped by political parties & platforms and then sold to their respective halves as ideals, morals and values.

The only way anything changes in the country is when politics are placed aside and people demand that that philosophies be shaped ideals, morals and values.

Unfortunately, the branding of our political parties has become so entwined into society over the past 50 or so years that asking someone to place their political leanings aside would be like asking them to give up their individuality.

This is not a Democrat or Republican failure.  Democrats and Republicans are the failures.

[MU82]

The only way anything changes in the country is when politics are placed aside and people demand that that philosophies be shaped ideals, morals and values.

I understand what you're saying here, Benny, and I want to agree with it.

But then I read this again and my reaction is: "Whose ideals? Whose morals? Whose values?"

I think most of us Scoopers could sit down and talk rationally and come up with definitions and/or philosophies of these concepts, but inevitably there will be those who say, "I am a Christian, and my ideals, morals and values are superior to yours; this is a Christian country, and if you don't like it you can leave." There will be others who reject all religious connection to ideals, morals and values, saying: "Religion is what got us into this mess."

I guess what I'm saying is that it's about more than politics when you bring in these points. But the politicians and those who want to "choose sides" often speak of their ideals, morals and values in religious terms, even when it's totally unnecessary to do so. And the worst among them try to impose those terms on the rest of society, claiming their ideals, morals and values are superior.

[jsglow]

That's exactly the thing that frustrates me most.  Try something.  You don't need to have the perfect answer to start.

No disagreement from me.

Bump stocks.  Never heard of them a month ago.  Fix it.
Immigrant name translated from Arabic is 'I hate/want to kill Americans' (Scoop license please).  Fix it.
Denied permit but can still purchase somehow.  Fix it.

3 steps right there.  Progress.  90% of Americans would agree with each.  It shouldn't be this hard.

[Pakuni]

You probably don't know this, but making mental health care easily accessible and affordable offers a solution that's unrelated to the problem.

If you did know, well then trying to capitalize on a tragedy by pushing an unrelated healthcare agenda makes the problem worse.

I'm highlighting the hypocrisy of those who wish to evade the gun issue by claiming this is a mental health issue, while also doing nothing to improve mental health care in this country.
If they truly believe this is primarily a mental health issue (they don't), then why aren't they at least trying to do something about that?
(Hint: Because they don't care).

[jficke13]

5 dead 24 wounded. What exactly is the point of that post?

Also is nobody going to address the fact that he just compared people who have abortions to those that have caused mass shootings?

It's probably best to not engage with crazy. Evoking a response is the only thing that motivates a troll. No response, and maybe, just maybe, the trolls will look for other targets where they are getting the response they crave.

[B. McBannerson]

Way too early, all we know is the guy was a staunch atheist and was discharged from the service after being court martialed.   He was DENIED a gun permit.  Again, these laws are already in place and he got it anyway.  Thankfully the locals helped to chase him off by firing on him before he took his own life after a chase.  Good for them.


Much more information will come out in time.

At some point we have to treat each other better.  Some crazy socialist attacks Rand Paul while he mows his lawn.  Another one tries to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen at a softball game.  We have this crazy dude, the Vegas crazy dude, the Ft. Hood crazy dude, last week's truck driver in NYC, the list goes on.

[wadesworld]

Way too early, all we know is the guy was a staunch atheist and was discharged from the service after being court martialed.   He was DENIED a gun permit.  Again, these laws are already in place and he got it anyway.  Thankfully the locals helped to chase him off by firing on him before he took his own life after a chase.  Good for them.


Much more information will come out in time.

At some point we have to treat each other better.  Some crazy socialist attacks Rand Paul while he mows his lawn.  Another one tries to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen at a softball game.  We have this crazy dude, the Vegas crazy dude, the Ft. Hood crazy dude, last week's truck driver in NYC, the list goes on.

So it's "way too early" but last week it wasn't "way too early" to get on Twitter and go on about the vetting process (one that has been by and large very successful since 9/11)?  Makes sense.

[MU82]

Way too early, all we know is the guy was a staunch atheist and was discharged from the service after being court martialed.   He was DENIED a gun permit.  Again, these laws are already in place and he got it anyway.  Thankfully the locals helped to chase him off by firing on him before he took his own life after a chase.  Good for them.


Much more information will come out in time.

At some point we have to treat each other better.  Some crazy socialist attacks Rand Paul while he mows his lawn.  Another one tries to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen at a softball game.  We have this crazy dude, the Vegas crazy dude, the Ft. Hood crazy dude, last week's truck driver in NYC, the list goes on.

Nicely done. The only two you talked about beyond "crazy dude" were the "atheist" and the "socialist."

Look in the mirror before lecturing Scoop on treating each other better.

Oh ... and you've been banned, which makes you a Scoop criminal every time you post.

[Jockey]

I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.

So we could save thousands of lives - but let's not even try cuz some people will still get killed.

Wow.

[Jockey]

82 and I are agreeing here.  From what the governor said, he was denied a Texas gun permit.

Look guys.  Take the defacto default political positions out of it for just a moment.

Vegas? Bump stocks, easy.

Guy from Uzbekistan?  I know some want 'open' borders but c'mon.  Easy.

Sutherland Springs?  I honestly don't know.

"Bump stocks? Easy"  Well, they are back on the market already, so obviously not easy.

"Guy from Uzbekistan"  How about guy from Vegas or guy from Texas or guy from any other US state?

"Sutherland Springs" That one actually is easy. A violent convicted felon is able to walk in a gun store and buy assault rifles and mega ammunition. We are a sick, sick, country to allow this.

I'm not knocking your post, Glow. We are all frustrated by these shootings. But there are many things that can be done to save thousands of our countrymen - black and white, left and right. They won't until we get leaders who are not cowed by the gun lobby
 
As VBMG said, to do nothing is insane.

But above all else - Save the Babies! Save the Babies!

Pro-Life, my a$$.

[wadesworld]

So we could save thousands of lives - but let's not even try cuz some people will still get killed.

Wow.

That's the argument gun supporters make every time.  It's disgusting.

[muwarrior69]

That's exactly the thing that frustrates me most.  Try something.  You don't need to have the perfect answer to start.

I agree. What frustrates me the most is that our so called representatives don't really want a solution. They are more interested in holding or gaining power and the issue of gun control serves both sides as all they want is our vote. If only we the electorate would vote out all the bums and then 2 years later vote out all the ones that were just elected and keep doing that until they got the message many something will get done. I know that is not going to happen and so I guess this is the new normal.

[Pakuni]

So we could save thousands of lives - but let's not even try cuz some people will still get killed.

Wow.

Why prevent North Korea from getting nukes when someone could get stabbed to death in Seoul anyhow?

[rocky_warrior]

Some good conversation here, but we all know there are those that will dig their heels in and argue this one beyond moderation.

Sorry folks.  And even more apologies to all victims of gun violence