NM

[Jon]

Because the root cause (more accurately, the primary catalyst to the root cause) brings in a lot of tax dollars now that it's been legalized.

Benny,

If only. Weed isn't the issue. The west coast (including Vancouver) has a major heroin problem. I have no idea how it reached current dimensions but it is awful.

[Chili]

Benny,

If only. Weed isn't the issue. The west coast (including Vancouver) has a major heroin problem. I have no idea how it reached current dimensions but it is awful.

Correct. Cannabis is not the issue. Opioids (including herrion) are issues.

[mu_hilltopper]

The documentary is done pretty even handedly by what I believe is one of the local news affiliates.  It certainly doesn't smack of a political hit piece.  Cities like Seattle and San Francisco have problems.  What the documentary suggests is that local officials have politicized the problem by refusing to acknowledge the root cause.  They also point out how cities like Providence, RI have dealt with it.

Seattle is a beautiful place.  My son now lives/works there.  But I have personally seen what is described and there is no doubt it's a significant problem.  The question is will there be enough momentum in the local community to force eventual action.

First .. I've never been to Seattle .. I watched most of the video.   Just terrible.

I have a hard time reconciling the video and statements like "Seattle is a beautiful place" with the video. --   Again, not having been myself, the "Seattle is dying" documentary portrayed the city as a total shat hole.

So .. was the documentary exaggerating?  I mean .. it was so. awful.   Milwaukee is in the "bottom 10" in so many categories, but it looked head and shoulders above what was portrayed in that documentary.

[GooooMarquette]

Wow, Rochester has really changed since I lived there... my buddy and I always used to joke that the city had an excellent program to deal with the homeless population: winter. 

Though admittedly, we knew exactly where the homeless guy lived (in the subway near Damon Parkade IIRC).

Don't get me wrong - I'm not talking tent cities, piles of syringes in parking lots or anything on the scale of what's happening in Seattle. But we have people who seem to live on street corners here and there.

The vast majority of what has happened here in the last 10-15 years has been enormously positive: continued growth of Mayo Clinic, significant private development downtown and such. But housing costs are on the rise, so we have an "affordable" housing issue, and we aren't immune to drug and homeless problems.

[jsglow]

First .. I've never been to Seattle .. I watched most of the video.   Just terrible.

I have a hard time reconciling the video and statements like "Seattle is a beautiful place" with the video. --   Again, not having been myself, the "Seattle is dying" documentary portrayed the city as a total shat hole.

So .. was the documentary exaggerating?  I mean .. it was so. awful.   Milwaukee is in the "bottom 10" in so many categories, but it looked head and shoulders above what was portrayed in that documentary.

No it's not misleading topper.  But you certainly don't see it on every corner of the city.  With the mountains, ocean, coffee shops, craft beer places, hills just like San Fran, it's stunning.  But this is a serious problem that they assuredly need to get a handle on.  As an example, there was a tent city not 200 yards from the hotel chick and I stayed at last time we visited.  We had to use our room key to get into the breakfast area and there were big signs not to open the doors for others.

Yes, Seattle housing is insanely expensive. But there is no way this is an affordable housing problem.  That's just BS to cover the real problem.  And Joe and Jane Sixpack understand that out there now. Let's hope they toss the 'do gooders' out of office.

[mu_hilltopper]

Yes, Seattle housing is insanely expensive. But there is no way this is an affordable housing problem.  That's just BS to cover the real problem.  And Joe and Jane Sixpack understand that out there now. Let's hope they toss the 'do gooders' out of office.

Explain that a bit .. it isn't an affordable housing/poverty issue?  I get it, lots of mental illness and substance abuse too. 

And what are the "do gooders" trying to do that's bad, etc?

[The Sultan]

First .. I've never been to Seattle .. I watched most of the video.   Just terrible.

I have a hard time reconciling the video and statements like "Seattle is a beautiful place" with the video. --   Again, not having been myself, the "Seattle is dying" documentary portrayed the city as a total shat hole.

So .. was the documentary exaggerating?  I mean .. it was so. awful.   Milwaukee is in the "bottom 10" in so many categories, but it looked head and shoulders above what was portrayed in that documentary.

Like a lot of cities, Seattle has large parts that are beautiful and lots of parts that are sh*tholes. 

I think this is a complex situation (mental illness, substance abuse, cost of living, lack of services, weather, policing, etc.) that too many people, as always, are trying to blame on a single point. 

[Benny B]

Correct. Cannabis is not the issue. Opioids (including herrion) are issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28946762

CONCLUSIONS:
Cannabis use appears to increase rather than decrease the risk of developing nonmedical prescription opioid use and opioid use disorder.

As I said, cannabis is not the problem... it's the catalyst to the problem.  Granted, not every opioid addict started on weed (or is addicted as a result of weed), but increasing availability of weed is not going to help the opioid crisis.

[warriorchick]

As an example, there was a tent city not 200 yards from the hotel chick and I stayed at last time we visited.  We had to use our room key to get into the breakfast area and there were big signs not to open the doors for others.

Let me add that where we were staying was not an urban area.  It was a middle-class neighborhood with office buildings and shopping malls - I would compare it to Schaumburg (if Schaumburg were in Chicago's city limits).  It's terrifying. I wouldn't let even a tween kid walk around unaccompanied by an adult.  Even if he or she didn't get accosted by any of these folks, the thought of them getting an accidental needle stick by walking through the grass would be enough.

[jsglow]

Explain that a bit .. it isn't an affordable housing/poverty issue?  I get it, lots of mental illness and substance abuse too. 

And what are the "do gooders" trying to do that's bad, etc?

They're denying the real problem.  Openly shooting heroin is not a 'lifestyle choice' for a civilized society.  Addicts are flocking there because they know there is zero enforcement.  And cops are quitting in droves, at least according to the documentary.  Society doesn't work when reasonable societal norms aren't adhered to.

(I'm trying not to get political here topper.) 

[jsglow]

Like a lot of cities, Seattle has large parts that are beautiful and lots of parts that are sh*tholes. 

I think this is a complex situation (mental illness, substance abuse, cost of living, lack of services, weather, policing, etc.) that too many people, as always, are trying to blame on a single point.

While I wholeheartedly agree with that, tolerated substance abuse in Seattle is probably responsible for 50%.  According to those interviewed, every single person in the camps has a substance abuse problem.  Every. Single. One.  And it's essentially denied as a problem by the city counsel that has literally told law enforcement not arrest when the amount held is considered 'personal use' quantities defined as 30 dosages.  A nonsensical policy. 

[The Sultan]

While I wholeheartedly agree with that, tolerated substance abuse in Seattle is probably responsible for 50%.  According to those interviewed, every single person in the camps has a substance abuse problem.  Every. Single. One.  And it's essentially denied as a problem by the city counsel that has literally told law enforcement not arrest when the amount held is considered 'personal use' quantities defined as 30 dosages.  A nonsensical policy. 

Agree.  But simply arresting them without offering rehabilitation services is just as nonsensical. 

[jsglow]

Agree.  But simply arresting them without offering rehabilitation services is just as nonsensical.

Totally agree.  The documentary talks about the Rhode Island solution.  Medication.  Restrictive environment, etc.

[GooooMarquette]

Totally agree.  The documentary talks about the Rhode Island solution.  Medication.  Restrictive environment, etc.

Yep. You have to arrest and detain them (shame on Seattle), but you also have to give them the tools they need to turn their lives around (shame on most other places). The places that just arrest, detain and release are simply overtaxing an already crowded prison system...and sending the problem to places like Seattle.

You need both - the detention and the rehabilitation - to turn this ship around.

The 93% success rate in RI is staggering. Even if some eventually fall back into addiction, it's dramatically better than the status quo.

[GooooMarquette]

Just let the kids at Stillwater High School pee, already....

Stillwater students protest administrators' decision to lock school bathrooms
School officials said the decision was made to curb vaping and vandalism, but students have launched a multifaceted campaign to 'Let Us Pee.'

https://www.instagram.com/letuspee/

http://www.startribune.com/stillwater-students-protest-administrators-decision-to-lock-school-bathrooms/508495512/

[Chili]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28946762
As I said, cannabis is not the problem... it's the catalyst to the problem.  Granted, not every opioid addict started on weed (or is addicted as a result of weed), but increasing availability of weed is not going to help the opioid crisis.

So is alcohol, nicotine, sugar, caffeine. the only reason cannabis is on there is because people can easily get it. It's also why sugar is the most abused addictive substance - because you can get it everywhere. Causation does not mean correlation.

[Chili]

Let me add that where we were staying was not an urban area.  It was a middle-class neighborhood with office buildings and shopping malls - I would compare it to Schaumburg (if Schaumburg were in Chicago's city limits).  It's terrifying. I wouldn't let even a tween kid walk around unaccompanied by an adult.  Even if he or she didn't get accosted by any of these folks, the thought of them getting an accidental needle stick by walking through the grass would be enough.

I would rather a tween a walk alone in Seattle than in Schaumburg. Good lord the suburbs are a terrible place to experience. Shuddering just thinking about them.

[Jon]

I think the title of the documentary, which was an exceptional piece of journalism, is misleading. Seattle isn't dying. Hardly.

It is vibrant, creating jobs, and generating significant wealth. (There is a reason so many MU grads have kids living in Seattle.)

The homeless problem in Seattle has nothing to do with property values, job creation, the minimum wage, access to health care, single use plastics, or the war in Southwest Asia: it is entirely due to drug addiction, mental illness, and an unwillingness by politicians to address those specific problems.

On Seattle's east side, there is not a homeless blight on the landscape. There are community standards and laws designed to enforce the lifestyle taxpayers insist on. The police force is empowered to enforce all the laws and have dedicated training in homelessness, drug abuse, and mental instability.

Homeless people on the east side are taken into custody and are offered the option of shelter, meals, medical treatment, and child care IF they undergo treatment for their drug addiction or mental illness.

I do volunteer work with a faith-based program in Bellevue designed to get the homeless off the street. In exchange for care the participants must undergo drug detox, mental health treatment, vocational training, etc... My particular focus is on vets - connecting them with the benefits that are in place and effective.

The single biggest barrier to enrollment is the homeless really will not accept rules. With our program you are in the door at 1700 for dinner and remain inside the shelter until 0700 the next morning. No bags, no packs, no tobacco, no drugs, no alcohol.

During the daytime they are scheduled for medical treatment, detox, mental health therapy, vocational training, life skills education.

Those 'rules' keep the majority of the homeless from opting in. They simply do not want the oversight and regulation. And because they know the police in Clyde Hill, Redmond, Medina, etc... will incarcerate them they stay away.

The homeless in Seattle are sick. Mentally and/or physically. The political class on that side of the water believes the answer is to give them housing or, alternatively, to let them pitch a tent wherever they wish. Give away programs do not work.

Unless you deal with the addictions and the demons the homeless will remain a festering would on an otherwise magnificent place.

 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Milton Friedman solved this years ago.  Supply and demand, negative income tax, an honorable society of decriminalization.

[mu_hilltopper]

The Bucks need to step up their game.  I wonder if the rating was for BC or Fiserv corn?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/12/sports/basketball/stephen-curry-warriors-popcorn.html

[Herman Cain]

Witch den leeds ta a 'hole host of problems, hey?

That depends if the hole it the host....

[real chili 83]

 ND football on tv. Must be a part of national mouth breathers day.

[GooooMarquette]

ND football on tv. Must be a part of national mouth breathers day.

ND sucks.

[rocket surgeon]

so this dude uses this to avoid paying tolls? 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-motorist-dodged-tolls-5500-license-plate-flipper


  these contraptions are sold online??  but the dip stick didn't know they were ILLEGAL in texas??

  now why the frontdoor are these things LEGAL anywhere?  i mean, i really don't care but of what other purpose would they contribute to society other than, say, hide ones identity, like if you were up to no good err sumpin.  what the...call my patent attorney-i've got a whole bunch of things to invent

[ZiggysFryBoy]

so this dude uses this to avoid paying tolls? 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/houston-motorist-dodged-tolls-5500-license-plate-flipper


  these contraptions are sold online??  but the dip stick didn't know they were ILLEGAL in texas??

  now why the frontdoor are these things LEGAL anywhere?  i mean, i really don't care but of what other purpose would they contribute to society other than, say, hide ones identity, like if you were up to no good err sumpin.  what the...call my patent attorney-i've got a whole bunch of things to invent

My baby didnt do nuffing.