Are you feeling better about MU's loss?

[wadesworld]

I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.

That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.

I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.

Completely disagree.  Oregon was clearly the better team than Kansas.

More talented?  Well, South Carolina probably has more pros than Nova.  And UW has 4 seniors who have been to 2 FFs and 2 more S16s.  I would argue Nova actually probably had less talent than either of those teams.  But that they were a better team.

It's sports.  If you get yourself into the Playoffs anything can happen.  Otherwise just make it the BCS and don't bother a Tournament.  Which would be boring and stupid.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's a guards' game, ai-na?

[mug644]

Back to the original question, I don't feel better about MU's loss, but I am more impressed with South Carolina. As noted during today's win, they've averaged just over 70 ppg in the tournament, as compared to something like 65 during the season. So, their offense has stepped up to rival their defense. Good for them.

What I was most struck by today, though, was the demeanor of Frank Martin as compared to Mike White. I though Martin was going to pop a vein or two, while White seemed so casual.

[Benny B]

I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.

That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.

I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.

Sorry... but I don't think you have the slightest inkling of what the tourney is and isn't supposed to be.

The best team isn't always the team that wins and the team that wins isn't always the best team.  Perhaps you should stick to Globetrotter basketball, guru.

[GoldenDieners32]

I never said Oregon isn't talented, they are, but my point was, they still haven't been to a FF since 1939. I do also like the way they play, but are they more talented then Kansas?? I don't think so..but that's my point, in a tournament setting, if you catch a top team on an off shooting night and you are hitting, odds are you will advance. That's what Oregon did, and kudos to them. But if Oregon and Kansas played 10 times, Kansas probably wins at least 7 of them.

That's my biggest issue with the tourney as a whole, too many people judge a team(s) based on how far they go in the tournament, and casual fans(and even some so called hardcore fans) think that because a team makes the final four, they MUST be one of the most talented, best teams in the country, when in reality it's the opposite..they got hot at the right time, had a good draw etc. It's such a crapshoot and should NEVER be used as a barometer for how good an underdog really is.

I mean in S. Carolina's case, there were some people down the stretch that felt that if everything fell right, they could have actually been left out this year. Look at Syracuse last year...should have never been in the tourney at all, yet made the FF. was that okay?? That's not the way it's supposed to be. I don't need all blue bloods in the FF every year, far from it..Look at Nova...#1 overall seed, gets a crap matchup with UW in Round two and don't even make the sweet 16..none of us liked that, did we?? Is S. Carolina more talented then Nova?? Absolutely not...heck is UW more talented then Nova?? Nope..Yet Nova was home after the first weekend, and UW just got done playing.

It doesn't matter who is more talented, its about who plays better in the game and Oregon played better than Kansas

[GooooMarquette]

I expected our first round opponent to get destroyed in their next game and they ended up being good enough to get to the Final Four.  It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but o course I feel a little better.

That's my feeling too.  It doesn't matter in the big picture - I'm always miserable when MU's season ends, and it certainly won't make my summer any better if USC goes on to win.

Still, all things considered, I'd rather have USC still playing than not. 

[MU82]

I have enjoyed following SC since they beat us. Thornwell ... wow ... amazing to think he wasn't even mentioned in any mock drafts 2 weeks ago.

Does their run make me feel "better" about MU loss? Not exactly. I'm with those who wasn't especially crushed by our loss. It was a horrible matchup in what essentially was a road game. And we stuck with them for more than 30 minutes.

As for muguru's nonsensical diatribes ... what else is new?

[Benny B]

I don't think I'm with you on this hand.  South Carolina matches up with these other teams way differently than we would have.  So yes it makes our loss more tolerable but in no way does it add to my "what could have been" sensation.

Lost opportunity not based on the transitive property but lost opportunity to do what South Carolina did... shift into a new gear.  As I've been opining since the Villanova win, this team had all of the makings of a team capable of making a deep run, but it had to find its identity, some confidence, someone to step up, a new gear, etc... something to allow the team to hit the next gear.  Unfortunately, they shifted into neutral after the Nova win and tried to ride the momentum.  But for all my optimism, I got the retorts of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and "teams don't change this late in the season" arguing that it just wasn't possible for MU to turn it up to 11.

But it is possible, because South Carolina did exactly what I was hoping MU would do.  The opportunity was there - not necessarily to go to the Final Four (I agree with the doctrine of favorable matchups) - but to step up to the next level and at least transform the team into something more than a 10-seed that tied for 3rd place in the Big East.

Once MU bows out, I just want to see good basketball.  At least I got that prayer answered.

[MU82]

Lost opportunity not based on the transitive property but lost opportunity to do what South Carolina did... shift into a new gear.  As I've been opining since the Villanova win, this team had all of the makings of a team capable of making a deep run, but it had to find its identity, some confidence, someone to step up, a new gear, etc... something to allow the team to hit the next gear.  Unfortunately, they shifted into neutral after the Nova win and tried to ride the momentum.  But for all my optimism, I got the retorts of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and "teams don't change this late in the season" arguing that it just wasn't possible for MU to turn it up to 11.

But it is possible, because South Carolina did exactly what I was hoping MU would do.  The opportunity was there - not necessarily to go to the Final Four (I agree with the doctrine of favorable matchups) - but to step up to the next level and at least transform the team into something more than a 10-seed that tied for 3rd place in the Big East.

Once MU bows out, I just want to see good basketball.  At least I got that prayer answered.

This is very reasonable, Benny.

I'm not sure MU had the personnel to enable it to "turn it up" as many notches as SC has, but certainly it could have ridden the Nova win better.

Then again ...

SC won 9 of 10 games to improve to 19-4 on Feb. 4. They were cookin' and looked to be capable of being more than a middling seed that would tie for 3rd in the SEC.

But they didn't exactly keep riding their momentum, as they finished the regular season in 3-5 swoon (with 2 wins coming over Miss State, the SEC's DePaul), followed by an 11-point, first-round SEC tourney flameout to Bama.

In other words, they had no momentum to ride into the NCAAs. I doubt SC fans expected much greatness from them.

They played us tough, hung in when we were shooting the lights out in the first half, and gradually started using their physical advantages to overpower us. And yet they still led us by only 5 with 7 minutes to go.

In those last 7 minutes, they showed the prowess that would carry over the next three games and take them to the Final Four.

[muwarrior69]

You're entitled to your opinion, as absurd as it may be, so if you want to only see the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world ever make a National Title then more power to you.  You will be suffering just about every single year in March.

Having said that, you obviously haven't watched Oregon play this year.  Not only do they play a very fun style of play, but they are quite clearly one of the top teams in the country and have been all season long.  In a conference with 3 top 7 teams, they won the regular season title (tied with Arizona but had the head to head tiebreak) and then lost in the tournament finals in a great game against Arizona less than 24 hours after losing a key piece of their rotation to a torn ACL.  Other than a rocky start with their star player out due to injury to start the season, they have been in the top 10 all year long.  They have gone 31-3 since Brooks has returned.  The absolute only reason they are a 3 seed is because of the Boucher injury, which they have clearly adjusted to.  Otherwise they probably beat Arizona and maybe steal Gonzaga's one seed.  They absolutely deserve to be where they are.  They just lead by double digits for about 21 minutes of their game against a team that was ranked in the top 4 throughout the entire year.

In terms of talent Brooks, Bell, Dorsey, Ennis, Pritchard, and Benson can absolutely match up with Pinson, Barry, Meeks, Hicks, Jackson, and Bradley.  UNC's size will be a problem so my guess is they win, but it's beyond absurd to say that Oregon doesn't have talent.

Wade believe me I really do get your sentiment here, but the UK, UNC, KU fans don't suffer even if they don't win it all. I know. As a Yankee fan seeing those 27 Championship flags fly over the stadium, not to mention the additional 13 AL Championship Flags is a cause for celebration and knowing that number 28 is not only possible but highly probable. Having said all that, watching the Cubs last fall was a baseball fans dream. So it is with the NCAA tournament.

[frozena pizza]

There are two things that seem obvious to me at this point:

1.  South Carolina is a very good team and the fact that they dropped a few games in February doesn't change that.  They are strong on both ends, well coached, and got the benefit of home court in the early rounds.  I picked them over Marquette in my bracket with confidence (but wasn't going to say it here with fear of being called a troll) but am surprised that their run has gone this far.  It absolutely makes our loss to them more palatable than if they had been blown out by 20 by Duke.

2.  The NCAA tournament is the single best event on the sports calendar in my view and nothing should be changed (although the first four is stupid IMHO).  The games this weekend were outstanding for the most part.  Bracket mania is at an all-time high and improbable runs are exactly what makes this tournament so much fun.  It is even better now because there are so many good teams capable of knocking off the top seeds.

[Benny B]

This is very reasonable, Benny.

I'm not sure MU had the personnel to enable it to "turn it up" as many notches as SC has, but certainly it could have ridden the Nova win better.

Then again ...

SC won 9 of 10 games to improve to 19-4 on Feb. 4. They were cookin' and looked to be capable of being more than a middling seed that would tie for 3rd in the SEC.

But they didn't exactly keep riding their momentum, as they finished the regular season in 3-5 swoon (with 2 wins coming over Miss State, the SEC's DePaul), followed by an 11-point, first-round SEC tourney flameout to Bama.

In other words, they had no momentum to ride into the NCAAs. I doubt SC fans expected much greatness from them.

They played us tough, hung in when we were shooting the lights out in the first half, and gradually started using their physical advantages to overpower us. And yet they still led us by only 5 with 7 minutes to go.

In those last 7 minutes, they showed the prowess that would carry over the next three games and take them to the Final Four.

This is very reasonable, Benny.

I'm not sure MU had the personnel to enable it to "turn it up" as many notches as SC has, but certainly it could have ridden the Nova win better.

Then again ...

SC won 9 of 10 games to improve to 19-4 on Feb. 4. They were cookin' and looked to be capable of being more than a middling seed that would tie for 3rd in the SEC.

But they didn't exactly keep riding their momentum, as they finished the regular season in 3-5 swoon (with 2 wins coming over Miss State, the SEC's DePaul), followed by an 11-point, first-round SEC tourney flameout to Bama.

In other words, they had no momentum to ride into the NCAAs. I doubt SC fans expected much greatness from them.

They played us tough, hung in when we were shooting the lights out in the first half, and gradually started using their physical advantages to overpower us. And yet they still led us by only 5 with 7 minutes to go.

In those last 7 minutes, they showed the prowess that would carry over the next three games and take them to the Final Four.

Ugh.  I had to go back and look at the game log, but you're absolutely right... with 7:15 to go, we were only down 5.  My brain must already be starting to repress the memory because it seemed like we were out of it well before that.  Therefore, since I soon won't be able to remember the game at all, logically, I must be feeling better.

[B. McBannerson]

Yes, makes me feel better. South Carolina is playing great. The farther they go, the better it makes me feel about our team and our future.

[T-Bone]

Anyone with Kenpom subscription:  Is there a tracker of what SC's rankings have been through the tournament?

They started with the #3 defense and are up to #2 in their rankings.  I think their offense has moved a whole lot, I thought they started in the upper hundreds, but are now ranked 105 offensively.