Bad to worse for Georgetown

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

   It will be interesting to see who Georgetown gets to be their next coach.    And whoever it is, it will be a measuring stick and should send a message to fans of other Big East programs to be careful before clamoring to be rid of their current coach.

So is this a round about way of saying that you think their hiring process will not result in a strong hire?

[tower912]

I am not sure there IS a strong hire that will be a good institutional fit at Georgetown.

[StillAWarrior]

I did. It is magnificent. Caters to all sports. Very, very well done.

I got a similar report.  The other thing that it does is creates a domino effect for the teams that aren't going to be housed in the JT Center.  Now that the BB teams (and lacrosse and soccer) are moving into JT, that opens space in McDonough.  The WVB team, which didn't have its own space previously, is moving into the WBB space.  Which is nice.

[Babybluejeans]

Diminished in stature in the same way that Golden State isn't having as good a regular season as they had a year ago.    The Big East of 8-10 years ago was amazing.     No doubt about it.    And then it collapsed due to the money grab that is football.   The current iteration of the Big East, though not the same, is still damn good (see conference rankings this year and Villanova last year) and the absolute best that non-football schools within a certain geographic footprint could have achieved.   To complain about it and blame it for a downturn in basketball fortunes labels you as a whiner. 
   It will be interesting to see who Georgetown gets to be their next coach.    And whoever it is, it will be a measuring stick and should send a message to fans of other Big East programs to be careful before clamoring to be rid of their current coach.

I think what Keefe was driving at involves the brand of the programs rather than just the quality. While basketball fans may know Creighton and Butler have great programs these days, those programs don't exactly make the toes tingle like Syracuse and Connecticut do.

The first season in the new Big East felt like a mourning period for a lot of us folks that absolutely loved the old conference and grieved the loss of some big-named programs--and that was for fans of an MU program that had been in the conference less than a decade! Given its historical place in the Big East, I think it's a far more extended mourning period for G'town, which feel the loss of the departed programs to a greater degree (and for Villanova too, judging from friends that went there). For that reason, I continue to be in the UConn-in-the-BE camp even if only for a shorter term stay.

[brewcity77]

I am not sure there IS a strong hire that will be a good institutional fit at Georgetown.

Honestly, this might just not be a great year for coaching hires. One name I haven't heard associated with them is King Rice. He's successfully built an East Coast program at a private university, has an exciting, up-tempo style that would resonate with recruits, and ticks the minority box. I know he doesn't have the NCAA success of some others, but neither did Billy Donovan or Mike White at Florida and they both worked out fine.

I think this is one of those situations where Georgetown might overreach on someone that doesn't really elevate them or just takes the available candidate because there's no obvious choice out there. Rice might be the one untapped rockstar hire that could reinvigorate their fanbase.

[Benny B]

I am not sure there IS a strong hire that will be a good institutional fit at Georgetown.

Honestly, all I can come up with - outside of current BE coaches/assistants (who would likely be off-limits any way) - is someone like Mike Brey, Mark Few, Dana Altman, Sean Miller, etc... and I don't think any of those are leaving their current gig for G-Town.

Now, if you're going for a strong hire or institutional fit, there's probably a dozen names out there who would make the jump.  Actually, one less because he got hired at IU.

Frankly, I may have to eat my words since Crean might be the closest thing out there that resembles a strong hire and institutional fit for G-Town.

[brewcity77]

Not sure if I heard it here or elsewhere, but it sounds like Georgetown will almost certainly make a minority hire. I think that's why names like Ewing and Cooley have been floated, and why I suggested King Rice.

[muwarrior69]

Not sure if I heard it here or elsewhere, but it sounds like Georgetown will almost certainly make a minority hire. I think that's why names like Ewing and Cooley have been floated, and why I suggested King Rice.

Sorry, but I thought we were not aloud to discriminate.

[warriorchick]

Not sure if I heard it here or elsewhere, but it sounds like Georgetown will almost certainly make a minority hire. I think that's why names like Ewing and Cooley have been floated, and why I suggested King Rice.

If that is true, that is a huge mistake.  Why would it make sense to eliminate 90% of qualified candidates right off the bat?  Are they afraid that JTIII is going to claim he was racially discriminated against?

[mu-rara]

If that is true, that is a huge mistake.  Why would it make sense to eliminate 90% of qualified candidates right off the bat?  Are they afraid that JTIII is going to claim he was racially discriminated against?

Not sure JTIII would do that.  Hurts him in his own job search.

[brewcity77]

If that is true, that is a huge mistake.  Why would it make sense to eliminate 90% of qualified candidates right off the bat?  Are they afraid that JTIII is going to claim he was racially discriminated against?

I don't think that's why, but I do think Georgetown has somewhat a reputation as a bit of a pioneer in that regard. I think they've gained a lot of respect from black coaches because of that and they may want to try to maintain that status.

[Babybluejeans]

Not sure JTIII would do that.  Hurts him in his own job search.

No, no. You guys are missing the point. Because of John Thompson, Jr. and the program he ran, Georgetown has had enormous influence in the black community across the last three decades (and not just in DC, but especially so there). The school won't let go of that role and their relationship with JT Jr lightly. 

I'm surprised you didn't know that as an occasional black guy.

[brewcity77]

No, no. You guys are missing the point. Because of John Thompson, Jr. and the program he ran, Georgetown has had enormous influence in the black community across the last three decades (and not just in DC, but especially so there). The school won't let go of that role and their relationship with JT Jr lightly. 

I'm surprised you didn't know that as an occasional black guy.

This is what I wanted to say, but stated far better than I did. Thanks, BBJ.

[Babybluejeans]

This is what I wanted to say, but stated far better than I did. Thanks, BBJ.

I didn't see your comment until after I posted mine, but you're right, we're saying the same thing. Pioneers indeed.

[muwarrior69]

No, no. You guys are missing the point. Because of John Thompson, Jr. and the program he ran, Georgetown has had enormous influence in the black community across the last three decades (and not just in DC, but especially so there). The school won't let go of that role and their relationship with JT Jr lightly. 

I'm surprised you didn't know that as an occasional black guy.

By that logic Notre Dame should have hired only white Norwegian football coaches and not let go of Knute Rockne's legacy. If this is true it stinks. They should hire the best coach because of their qualifications, nothing else, and if that coach happens to be black so be it.

[Babybluejeans]

They should hire the best coach because of their qualifications, nothing else

It was decades of the complete absence of this principle in college basketball and elsewhere that makes Georgetown protective of their legacy.

[StillAWarrior]

By that logic Notre Dame should have hired only white Norwegian football coaches and not let go of Knute Rockne's legacy. If this is true it stinks. They should hire the best coach because of their qualifications, nothing else, and if that coach happens to be black so be it.

This made me curious.  I wonder how many of the ND football coaches after Rockne were Catholic.  I don't know the answer, but I strongly suspect a lot of them.  Rockne wasn't when hired, but converted.

I don't think the issue at Georgetown is as much about the coach, as it is the BB student athlete population they have focused on.  If Georgetown plans to continue what is a pretty apparent focus on Black athletes in basketball, I would expect them to hire a Black coach.  That focus might shift, but it's hard to know at this point.  It's obviously not a perfect analogy, but in this aspect GU basketball could be viewed as similar to a HBCU.


I'm editing because I felt the original post didn't clearly and accurately reflect what I was trying to say.  My thoughts on this really relate to the point BBB made in the post immediately above mine.  For many, many years starting with JT, Georgetown seems to have made a very specific point to offer opportunities to Black basketball players.  That is the "focus" was I was referring to.  I've assumed for a lot of years that this was simply a philosophical view taken by Georgetown basketball.  So, when I reference GU's apparent focus on Black players, I'm talking about a social/values issue and not a basketball issue.  I expect this hire to reflect that.  This is neither an endorsement nor a criticism of that approach; rather it is simply what I think will probably happen.

[Spotcheck Billy]

No, no. You guys are missing the point. Because of John Thompson, Jr. and the program he ran, Georgetown has had enormous influence in the black community across the last three decades (and not just in DC, but especially so there). The school won't let go of that role and their relationship with JT Jr lightly. 

I'm surprised you didn't know that as an occasional black guy.

Paging Craig Esherick

[Golden Avalanche]

Paging Craig Esherick

Esh was a hand picked Big John guy.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It was decades of the complete absence of this principle in college basketball and elsewhere that makes Georgetown protective of their legacy.

This.

[warriorchick]

It was decades of the complete absence of this principle in college basketball and elsewhere that makes Georgetown protective of their legacy.

That's fine, but excluding the vast majority of  candidates based on criteria that have little or nothing to do with being successful at the job is how we wound up with Pilarz.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's fine, but excluding the vast majority of  candidates based on criteria that have little or nothing to do with being successful at the job is how we wound up with Pilarz.

Agreed, no one should be excluded. But fair or not, the race of the candidate does have an impact on if Georgetown will be an institutional fit for them. The comparison made earlier to an HBCU is accurate. Georgetown has a long and proud history of supporting black basketball players and coaches, dating back to times when that was not a popular thing to do. That's a point of pride that I am sure is hard to give up Not saying it's right. Just saying it is.

Hell, I remember when Wojo was hired a lot of people on here were making statements about how he didn't fit in with Marquette culture. Lots of statements about how Wojo needed to recruit kids from cracked sidewalks and when we win championships we cut nets down with switchblades. That pride that many here felt about the culture established by Al is not something easily given up. Georgetown has a similar if not greater pride for their culture.

[brewcity77]

Hell, I remember when Wojo was hired a lot of people on here were making statements about how he didn't fit in with Marquette culture.

When he was hired? I'm not sure those thoughts have changed all that much in the past 3 years...

[StillAWarrior]

Agreed, no one should be excluded. But fair or not, the race of the candidate does have an impact on if Georgetown will be an institutional fit for them. The comparison made earlier to an HBCU is accurate. Georgetown has a long and proud history of supporting black basketball players and coaches, dating back to times when that was not a popular thing to do. That's a point of pride that I am sure is hard to give up Not saying it's right. Just saying it is.

This is precisely the point I was trying to make.  Well put.

[muwarrior69]

Agreed, no one should be excluded. But fair or not, the race of the candidate does have an impact on if Georgetown will be an institutional fit for them. The comparison made earlier to an HBCU is accurate. Georgetown has a long and proud history of supporting black basketball players and coaches, dating back to times when that was not a popular thing to do. That's a point of pride that I am sure is hard to give up Not saying it's right. Just saying it is.

Hell, I remember when Wojo was hired a lot of people on here were making statements about how he didn't fit in with Marquette culture. Lots of statements about how Wojo needed to recruit kids from cracked sidewalks and when we win championships we cut nets down with switchblades. That pride that many here felt about the culture established by Al is not something easily given up. Georgetown has a similar if not greater pride for their culture.

So if several 4 star white basketball players wanted to go to Georgetown they would not sign them because they are not an "institutional" fit? If there were a school with the same academic standing as Georgetown that had a history of supporting  poor white basketball players would it be tolerated: Not saying it is right, just saying it is; but we know there is no school out there because we know it is not right. It is discrimination but everyone wants to skirt around the issue, not to mention that Georgetown takes pride in it. It's 2017, we should evaluate people based on their talents, not on the color of their skin.