Milwaukee Bucks

[GoldenDieners32]

I love the Bucks but is it just me or are we expected to make the playoffs every year at the beginning of the year? Watching them has been disappointing lately but we got Khris back that should help us out. Bad thing Jabari went down with a knee injury. They remind me of MU, no defense 

[wadesworld]

I think the only year the Bucks were expected to make the Playoffs at the start of the year in recent memory was last year, with Jabari coming back and coming off of a 6 seed and scaring the Bulls in the first round the previous season.

Coming into this season it might've been expected until Middleton got hurt in the preseason.  Then hope might've been there when they started decently, but we're seeing a Kidd coached team to the tee now.

So to answer the question, no.  Since shortly after the Allen/Big Dog group was broken up the Bucks have not been expected to do much.

[#UnleashSean]

Defense? Nba? What?

[GGGG]

Defense? Nba? What?

If you don't think they play defense in the NBA, you don't watch much NBA.

[cheebs09]

Hoping for good news on Jabari. He's really improved and come back strong from the first injury.

[wadesworld]

Hoping for good news on Jabari. He's really improved and come back strong from the first injury.

Agreed.  He's saying a hyperextended knee, but from what I've seen that's almost always a straight forward/back just awkward extension.  Non-contact knee injuries where the knee buckles inwards?  Looks like an ACL tear to my untrained eye.

Kidd skipped the post game press conference to have a "basketball discussion" with Hammond.  Wish it would be Kidd's exit interview, but unfortunately it's more likely to be, "What do we do with our 4 without Jabari?"

[🏀]

If you don't think they play defense in the NBA, you don't watch much NBA.

This, +1

[4everwarriors]

Bucks don't have to be any good 'til da new buidin' opens when dey can and will stick der collective hands in yo wallet and extract lotsa sheckles for ducats, ai na?

[MUfan12]

Kidd skipped the post game press conference to have a "basketball discussion" with Hammond.  Wish it would be Kidd's exit interview, but unfortunately it's more likely to be, "What do we do with our 4 without Jabari?"

Lasry was in on it as well.

[wadesworld]

People around the league saying (not surprisingly, but very unfortunately) torn ACL.

[tower912]

Defense? Nba? What?

Do yourself a favor.   Look up on youtube ANY star from the 50's/60's/70's.    Watch how they played defense on Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt.     Notice the complete lack of help defense.    Compare to today.   Yes, the physicality of the 90's has been eliminated.    But the switching, helping, doubling, hedging is infinitely more sophisticated than it was 40-50 years ago. 

[GoldenDieners32]

http://fox6now.com/2017/02/09/coach-kidd-jabari-parker-tore-acl-in-his-left-knee-again-12-month-rehab-process-after-surgery/
So sad

[Eldon]

http://fox6now.com/2017/02/09/coach-kidd-jabari-parker-tore-acl-in-his-left-knee-again-12-month-rehab-process-after-surgery/
So sad

Damn.  Poor guy.

[4everwarriors]

Still under his rookie contract. Sucks major ass. Doubt he'll ever make da sheckels a #2 pik in da draft reelizes. Look for da locals ta make a major trade ta shore up its frontcourt, hey?

[BrewCity83]

Still under his rookie contract. Sucks major ass. Doubt he'll ever make da sheckels a #2 pik in da draft reelizes. Look for da locals ta make a major trade ta shore up its frontcourt, hey?

Doubtful.  They're not gonna make a run this year without Parker.  If they make a trade it'll be with next year in mind.  Next year at this time Parker should be coming back for the stretch run and hopefully give them a boost.  This year is pretty much down the toilet now.  Get a lottery pick and trade it--they've gotta stop getting younger.

[jsglow]

Feel terrible for Parker.  Great kid. Second time for the same knee.

[BrewCity83]

Feel terrible for Parker.  Great kid. Second time for the same knee.

Isn't it the third?  I remember him at Madness on crutches when he was in high school...was that a knee?

[GoldenDieners32]

Doubtful.  They're not gonna make a run this year without Parker.  If they make a trade it'll be with next year in mind.  Next year at this time Parker should be coming back for the stretch run and hopefully give them a boost.  This year is pretty much down the toilet now.  Get a lottery pick and trade it--they've gotta stop getting younger.

They should tank, and either trade up(draft is loaded with names like Jajuan Johnson and Luke Fishcer)  and if they can't trade up trade it for someone who is talented. Since JP is out Thon is going to thrive

[wadesworld]

The Bucks just gave up 48 points to the Lakers in the first...quarter. That is a complete joke. You could put MU's defense out there and just based on effort they wouldn't even give up 48 points in a quarter. Show some pride. I don't care how bad of defensive players are on the roster, 48 points in a quarter is 100% a lack of effort.

How long does Kidd get? He has to be the worst coach in the NBA. There's a reason a horrible Nets franchise was looking to kick him to the curb. Leave it to the Bucks to not only take him, but to give up a pick to do it!

[martyconlonontherun]

Defense? Nba? What?

This and college basketball has better shooters are the dumbest myths in sports. There's a reason why these high-scoring college players flame out in the NBA. The length and athleticism on the defensive end in the NBA just doesn't allow for easy 3's (With the exception of Kidd's insane defensive strategy of forcing the ball around for a wide-open corner 3.)

[EaglesNest]

Tonight ended the streak of the Bucks giving up 100+ points for 20 straight games.

[4everwarriors]

So, gotta blame Parker, a Wojo playa, for da lac of defense den, hey?

[EaglesNest]

Down 63-37 to the nuggets at halftime. At least they came out and showed some fight in the second half.

[GoldenDieners32]

Bucks Vs Raptors first round

BUCKS IN 6

[wadesworld]

Bucks Vs Raptors first round

BUCKS IN 6

No.

[MUfan12]

Toronto has won 13 of the last 15.

Awful matchup for the Bucks. Raps in 5.

[BM1090]

I think the Bucks could put a scare into Toronto. Middleton and Giannis should be able to combine to limit Derozan.

Don't think a series win is realistic, but could see it getting pushed to 6 or 7.

[wadesworld]

The Raptors have owned the Bucks for a few years now. This is the worst matchup possible. The only chance for the Bucks to take more than a game is if Lowry isn't himself after the wrist surgery, but he's had a few games back now.

[LAMUfan]

No.

Yes?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

One down

[Cooby Snacks]

Seemed like Toronto missed a lot of decent midrange and 3 looks, but the Bucks did a good job not letting them get easy buckets inside. Nice contributions from Thon and Moose in particular.

[Skitch]

Bucks in 6.

[GB Warrior]

Seemed like Toronto missed a lot of decent midrange and 3 looks, but the Bucks did a good job not letting them get easy buckets inside. Nice contributions from Thon and Moose in particular.

Bucks deserve a lot of credit for that. Toronto has had their number, but MKE forced them out of their game. Raptors thrive at getting to the tin, and the Bucks kept them out of the paint in the second half.

The Bucks got the steal of the decade in Giannis. If Thon has half as much potential 4  years from now, they will have gotten another one. Of course he'll be 36 years old, but still. He looked outstanding. There was one play where he switched onto Lowry on the pick and roll and matched him step for step to the basket.

[Herman Cain]

If the Bucks do well it is good for MU.

[GB Warrior]

If the Bucks do well it is good for MU.

Maybe Kostas will want to transfer

[Herman Cain]

Maybe Kostas will want to transfer

That is sweet music to my ears.

[GooooMarquette]

No.

Or maybe yes....

FEAR THE DEER!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Two down

[wadesworld]

Two down

14 to go.

[Eldon]

14 to go.

Giannis, light it up light it up!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

14 to go.

Ultimately.  But I just want to win a damn playoffs series did the first time in forever.  Only two to go for that

[cheebs09]

14 to go.

We can only worry about the game on Saturday.

[wadesworld]

We can only worry about the game on Saturday.

Nah.  Bucks aren't going anywhere this year so might as well have fun with it.

Saturday is unquestionably the biggest game of the season for the Bucks, though.

[GGGG]

When they move the ball, they are a fun team to watch.  I don't understand why people criticize Kidd though.  He has surrounded himself with good Xs and Os guys and lets them do their thing.  Player development has been impressive. 

[wadesworld]

When they move the ball, they are a fun team to watch.  I don't understand why people criticize Kidd though.  He has surrounded himself with good Xs and Os guys and lets them do their thing.  Player development has been impressive.

Some insiders have basically said that Kidd was on his way to being fired until something with his attitude changed after the loss to the Nuggets.  They basically said he showed no interest whatsoever in coaching and then all of a sudden he became very engaged after that.  Their unproven theory is that there was some sort of meeting held between him and the owners after that game.

He has coached mostly well in the Playoffs.  My only complaint is not getting Moose and Snell (who both had played great) onto the court in the last minute down 2 with the ball in game 2.  I get it, Delly and Thon played well in helping the Bucks get back in the game.  But when you're down 2 with the ball with timeouts to use you have to have your best offensive unit on the floor, especially when the two you have on the bench were 2 of your 3 best offensive players that game.

In the regular season his rotations were a joke.  It should not have taken more than 2 games to realize Brogdon was a way better option than Delly at the point guard, the center position rotation was comical (who's playing tonight, who's sitting tonight?), and the defensive scheme was way too complicated and chaotic.  I also don't think he did a very good job of putting players into situations where they were at their best.  Telle, for example, was one of the best 3 point shooters in the NBA over the 2nd half of last season because the Suns actually ran some plays to get him coming off of screens for a 3 pointer.  The Bucks just let him float around and try to create a shot on his own.  That just doesn't work.  I get it, the defense and offense are run by other guys so that's not on Kidd, but Kidd is the head coach so ultimately he has to get some of the blame somewhere.

The player development has been great, but how hard is it for a former NBA great to get other NBA greats to come in and do the work for you?  "Hey, John Stockton, can we pay you a little bit to come in and work with Malcolm Brogdon a little bit?"  "KG, what's up, nice to hear from you.  Want to make a few Bucks to come in and work with 2 guys we think may be future HOFers and you can take some of the credit for their development?"

And from what I've heard this past offseason Sweeney (I believe...might've been one of the other assistants but pretty sure I remember it being Sweeney) basically lived with Giannis.  Was in the gym with him every day.

[cheebs09]

When they move the ball, they are a fun team to watch.  I don't understand why people criticize Kidd though.  He has surrounded himself with good Xs and Os guys and lets them do their thing.  Player development has been impressive.

I was expecting Thon to get the Darko treatment and we'd start to see some development next year. The improvement he's shown from the start of the year to now is incredible.

[MUfan12]

Some insiders have basically said that Kidd was on his way to being fired until something with his attitude changed after the loss to the Nuggets.  They basically said he showed no interest whatsoever in coaching and then all of a sudden he became very engaged after that.  Their unproven theory is that there was some sort of meeting held between him and the owners after that game.

That small winning streak right around the All-Star Break saved his job. They were assembling a list of possible replacements.

[MerrittsMustache]

That small winning streak right around the All-Star Break saved his job. They were assembling a list of possible replacements.

Wojo to MKE!

[Jockey]

When they move the ball, they are a fun team to watch.  I don't understand why people criticize Kidd though.  He has surrounded himself with good Xs and Os guys and lets them do their thing.  Player development has been impressive.

You are exactly right.

The only top 10 draft pick is Thon. Two of the starters are 2nd rounders. The other two were picked #15 and # 20 in the 1st round. Kidd has done an outstanding job.

However, what Wades say does have some merit. Kidd has shown that at times he can be dis-interested when the team is not playing well.

Overall, I think the team is two years from being a title contender. Giannis will be a Top 5 player in the league - he may be already - and Maker is going to be a real player in this league as well. Middleton has borderline all-star talent. I loved the Brogdon pick at the time, but he is way better than I hoped for.

This is also a great year to have the 17th pick in the draft. There are going to be a couple of future all-stars in the 15 - 25 range. Hopefully the Bucks choose wisely (and get lucky).

[Eldon]

You are exactly right.

The only top 10 draft pick is Thon. Two of the starters are 2nd rounders. The other two were picked #15 and # 20 in the 1st round. Kidd John Hammond has done an outstanding job.

However, what Wades say does have some merit. Kidd has shown that at times he can be dis-interested when the team is not playing well.

Overall, I think the team is two years from being a title contender. Giannis will be a Top 5 player in the league - he may be already - and Maker is going to be a real player in this league as well. Middleton has borderline all-star talent. I loved the Brogdon pick at the time, but he is way better than I hoped for.

This is also a great year to have the 17th pick in the draft. There are going to be a couple of future all-stars in the 15 - 25 range. Hopefully the Bucks choose wisely (and get lucky).

FTFY

(We can forgive him for Joel Alexander)

[wadesworld]

So what do you do with the roster if you're the Bucks? Moose has been outstanding the second half of this year and what looked like a mistake now looks like he's worth the money. Do you hope he opts in? Do you try to offer him a longer term extension for slightly less money per year?

What about Snell? I want him back badly but I think he might command too much money. If you pay him you're probably not going to have the kind of money to get Jabari back in Milwaukee long term IF he comes back playing the way he was before the second knee injury. I think Snell fits better with the Bucks roster but obviously Jabari is the better talent, with a lot more injury risk.

Middleton will need to be paid fairly soon again.

This will be an interesting offseason.

[wadesworld]

Well let's see what kind of coach Kidd is. I'm not sure why we continue to see Giannis trying to attack from the top of the key. The Raptors have just put all 5 defenders with a foot in the key and watches no player or ball movement take place.

He also just stands there and watches the refs give the Raptors every single call. The Raptors and Casey whine at every single whistle, even when it goes their way. The Bucks? DeRozan misses an uncontested dunk and goes to the line while Kidd just stares blankly around.

[MUfan12]

Needed a T when the game was out of reach. Refs allowed Toronto to turn that game into a wrestling match.

Gonna be tough for the Bucks if they're allowed to play that way.

[wadesworld]

Needed a T when the game was out of reach. Refs allowed Toronto to turn that game into a wrestling match.

Gonna be tough for the Bucks if they're allowed to play that way.

Agreed, although I think the Bucks have been just as physical. The problem today (and it didn't cost the Bucks the game, they played about as bad of offense as you could've possibly played) was that the whining of the Raptors was rewarded by the refs.

[EaglesNest]

One bright spot from game 4 was the play of Tony Snell. Without him the game would have been a major blowout

[wadesworld]

One bright spot from game 4 was the play of Tony Snell. Without him the game would have been a major blowout

Yup.  He's the only one who really showed up.  Will be interesting to see what they do with him this offseason.  Not sure you're going to be able to pay him and still have money to pay Jabari if Jabari comes back the way he did from his first ACL tear.  Ideally you have both of them on the roster going forward, and if you do I honestly like the current starting lineup with Jabari in the roll that Monroe is in now (scorer off the bench).  I like having Snell and Middleton starting next to each other with Brogdon and Thon.  Length, defense, and shooting around Giannis.

[MUfan12]

Awful matchup for the Bucks. Raps in 5.

Okay, Raps in 6.

Last two have looked more and more like the regular season meetings. Casey made adjustments after game 3 and Kidd, well, hasn't.

[wadesworld]

Okay, Raps in 6.

Last two have looked more and more like the regular season meetings. Casey made adjustments after game 3 and Kidd, well, hasn't.

Exactly.  The only "adjustments" I've seen over the last 2 games were Kidd trying to put Delly into pick and rolls with Giannis to get a switch of Lowry onto Giannis, but obviously the Raptors were more than happy to let Delly run down the lane and airball floaters over and over in game 4, and then double DeRozan every time he touched the ball early in game 5 so they countered by just getting him the ball in the corner and then playing 4 on 3 and getting layup after layup.

Also he has let the Raptors whine their way into getting every single call.  Every time Lowry has missed a shot this entire series he has ended up on the ground whining to the refs.  Kidd needs to get the refs to respect his team.  I hate all the whining in the NBA, but when it's working and the opposing coach just stands there looking lost as hell why wouldn't you do it?

[GGGG]

The problem that plagues the Bucks isn't easily fixed over the course of a series.  Lack of consistent outside shooting has been a problem all year.  Toronto is sagging into the lane to stop Giannis because there isn't anyone to consistently make them pay for doing so.  Not many "adjustments" will solve that problem.

[MUfan12]

The problem that plagues the Bucks isn't easily fixed over the course of a series.  Lack of consistent outside shooting has been a problem all year.  Toronto is sagging into the lane to stop Giannis because there isn't anyone to consistently make them pay for doing so.  Not many "adjustments" will solve that problem.

They've shot the ball pretty well in this series, save G4. Tied for best 3PT% in the playoffs at 42%.

Two major issues I see... 1) They cannot win if Khris Middleton is not playing well. Even though he was off in G1, he racked up assists and took care of the ball. He has been really bad the last two games. 2) Kidd/Sweeney need to back off the pressure a bit in the halfcourt. I'd sag on most of their guys and make them beat you from three, rather than extend the defense and allow a straight-line drive. Throwing the immediate double at DeRozan was naive, and it hurt them badly.

[wadesworld]

The problem that plagues the Bucks isn't easily fixed over the course of a series.  Lack of consistent outside shooting has been a problem all year.  Toronto is sagging into the lane to stop Giannis because there isn't anyone to consistently make them pay for doing so.  Not many "adjustments" will solve that problem.

Sure, but you can still at least try to make it easier.  I didn't get to watch the 2nd-4th quarters (and it looks like I should be thankful for that) last night.  It looks like Giannis went off.  I would guess Kidd put him more on the wing and mid post?  If so, how hard was it to see that he needed to stop having Giannis try to attack from the top of the 3 point line?  They literally had 5 guys with at least 1 foot in the paint when they were doing that in games 3 and 4.  At least move Giannis to the mid post so only 2-3 defenders have a chance to close in on him, not all 5.  Also, put Brogdon into pick and rolls with him if you want to get a switch for Giannis.  Having Delly run down the lane isn't going to scare the Raptors, he's not a threat to finish whatsoever.  Brogdon?  He at least has a chance to score at the rim.

[Eldon]

The problem that plagues the Bucks isn't easily fixed over the course of a series.  Lack of consistent outside shooting has been a problem all year.  Toronto is sagging into the lane to stop Giannis because there isn't anyone to consistently make them pay for doing so.  Not many "adjustments" will solve that problem.

We know that problem all too well.

[GoldenDieners32]

They played hard last night, one of the best games i've watched

[4everwarriors]

Basically, dey ain't got 'nough shot makas butt #34 shot his load and wuz spent. Oh, and Kidd's know Pop, ai na?