College football championship

[MU82]

I'm not even a big college football fan, but what a game that was last night.

Lots of drama throughout, the nation's best offense vs the nation's best defense, the winning play scored with 1 second to play, an upset of the sport's reigning dynasty, the vanquishing of Darth Saban, the coronation of Deshaun Watson, etc etc etc. Lots of great storylines and lots of fun.

The playoffs need to be expanded to at least 8 teams and the system still isn't perfect, but this postseason system is so much more satisfying than the BCS and its predecessors.

Best of all, because I DVRed the game and didn't start watching until about 90 minutes after it started, I didn't have to sit through the 3 minute commercials or the 30-minute halftime!

[injuryBug]

great game but NCAA needs to get a better replay system and figure out a way to stop the games from lasting forever.  4 hour games are a bit much.

Was glad to see Bama go down

[wadesworld]

All I know is that a game that starts at 7 PM shouldn't be ending after 11 PM.

And that there were clear cut illegal picks on each of the Tigers' final 2 touchdowns.

[4everwarriors]

Rolled Tide, ai na?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

All I know is that a game that starts at 7 PM shouldn't be ending after 11 PM.

And that there were clear cut illegal picks on each of the Tigers' final 2 touchdowns.

Maybe (didn't see them that closely) but picks are rarely called in a normal game without much meaning, as long as it's consistent with the season it's pretty much meh.

[jesmu84]

Someone on my twitter timeline with this gem after Watson's game-winning TD:

"@markstrot: Deshaun Watson probably lost Ryan Pace his job tonight"

[GGGG]

I might be wrong, but I don't think pushing your defender into another defender is a pick within three yards of the LOS.  But holy hell do I agree with the time of the game and replay.  They were reviewing EVERYTHING out there toward the end.

[MerrittsMustache]

The replay system and pace of the game definitely need some work but with a "7:00 game" starting after 7:15 and an extended halftime, the game is going to feel drawn out regardless. I do feel like social media's constant scrutiny of any remotely questionable call has put officials on edge and has led to over analysis of any close play, especially late in big games.


In addition, between Nova-Carolina, Warriors-Cavs, Cubs-Indians and now Bama-Clemson, it's been quite the run of amazing championship games.

[brandx]

great game but NCAA needs to get a better replay system and figure out a way to stop the games from lasting forever.  4 hour games are a bit much.

Was glad to see Bama go down

That is why I no longer watch college football. It a just brutal to sit through any game.

And the hype is 10x worse than the Super Bowl. If I ever hear again how Alabama has one of the greatest defenses of all time, I will puke.

Yeah, they were pretty good this year, but the SEC hype totally turns me off to college football. Remember a few years ago when we had to listen to the line that Tebow may have been the greatest college player ever.

[MerrittsMustache]

And that there were clear cut illegal picks on each of the Tigers' final 2 touchdowns.

On the final play, the DB grabbed the WR high and the WR just went down. Smart play. Nothing illegal about that. The Bama DB even said after the game that it wasn't a penalty. Also, pick plays aren't illegal unless the WR goes out of his way to grab the DB, committing offensive PI. He can run straight ahead and if he bumps into a defender or two along the way, so be it.

[GGGG]

Tebow was a pretty damn good college football player.  Greatest ever?  No.  But probably one of the best five over the last 20 years.

[wadesworld]

On the final play, the DB grabbed the WR high and the WR just went down. Smart play. Nothing illegal about that. The Bama DB even said after the game that it wasn't a penalty. Also, pick plays aren't illegal unless the WR goes out of his way to grab the DB, committing offensive PI. He can run straight ahead and if he bumps into a defender or two along the way, so be it.

The 2nd to last touchdown the WR shoves the DB with 2 hands to the chest before "turning for the ball" (aka throwing his hands above his head like the ball is in the air to him even though he knew he was never getting the ball).  On the last play he basically chop blocked the DB.  Even in Watson's post game interview he said "(enter WR's name) set a great pick and (enter other WR's name) came wide open and we made sure we secured the catch" (paraphrasing).

[Tugg Speedman]

great game but NCAA needs to get a better replay system and figure out a way to stop the games from lasting forever.  4 hour games are a bit much.

Was glad to see Bama go down

Amen!

The length of the game made took away from the drama and great play.

Ever notice it takes the announcers 3 seconds and two replays to figure out the correct call but the refs on the field take FOREVER!

They have to do what the NHL does, ref in the booth that just tells the ref on the field to change the play and get on with it!!!

[ATL MU Warrior]

The 2nd to last touchdown the WR shoves the DB with 2 hands to the chest before "turning for the ball" (aka throwing his hands above his head like the ball is in the air to him even though he knew he was never getting the ball).  On the last play he basically chop blocked the DB.  Even in Watson's post game interview he said "(enter WR's name) set a great pick and (enter other WR's name) came wide open and we made sure we secured the catch" (paraphrasing).

No.  You are seeing what you want to see.

[wadesworld]

No.  You are seeing what you want to see.

I couldn't care much less about college football. I like seeing Bama dominate it because I don't like college football in general, but I had no interest in the outcome of that game. But this is pretty much the definition of a chop block. All of the contact is initiated by the WR, he goes low into the DB's legs, etc.

[mu03eng]

Amen!

The length of the game made took away from the drama and great play.

Ever notice it takes the announcers 3 seconds and two replays to figure out the correct call but the refs on the field take FOREVER!

They have to do what the NHL does, ref in the booth that just tells the ref on the field to change the play and get on with it!!!

Hate to break it to you but that's how they do it in College Football. There is a replay official in the stadium that is monitoring the replay and decides to initiate a replay and then makes the determination with the field official.

[MerrittsMustache]

The 2nd to last touchdown the WR shoves the DB with 2 hands to the chest before "turning for the ball" (aka throwing his hands above his head like the ball is in the air to him even though he knew he was never getting the ball).  On the last play he basically chop blocked the DB.  Even in Watson's post game interview he said "(enter WR's name) set a great pick and (enter other WR's name) came wide open and we made sure we secured the catch" (paraphrasing).

Clemson second to last TD was a 1-yard run. I assume you mean on the TD to make it 24-21. The WR blocked his defender, stopped and the other DB ran into him. It is NOT illegal to get run into by a DB.

Again, setting a pick is NOT illegal. On the final play, the DB grabbed the WR near the shoulders and the WR went down at the DB's legs. The other DB who was trying to cover Renfrow got caught up with his own guy. Clemson's WR never touched him. There is NOTHING illegal about that.

[MerrittsMustache]

I couldn't care much less about college football. I like seeing Bama dominate it because I don't like college football in general, but I had no interest in the outcome of that game. But this is pretty much the definition of a chop block. All of the contact is initiated by the WR, he goes low into the DB's legs, etc.

I notice you left out the initial screenshot of the DB wrapping his arms around the WR's shoulder.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I couldn't care much less about college football. I like seeing Bama dominate it because I don't like college football in general, but I had no interest in the outcome of that game. But this is pretty much the definition of a chop block. All of the contact is initiated by the WR, he goes low into the DB's legs, etc.

I don't really care enough to continue to argue with you about it, but you are suggesting that the DB had nothing to do with the contact which is just absolutely incorrect. 

[wadesworld]

Clemson second to last TD was a 1-yard run. I assume you mean on the TD to make it 24-21. The WR blocked his defender, stopped and the other DB ran into him. It is NOT illegal to get run into by a DB.

Again, setting a pick is NOT illegal. On the final play, the DB grabbed the WR near the shoulders and the WR went down at the DB's legs. The other DB who was trying to cover Renfrow got caught up with his own guy. Clemson's WR never touched him. There is NOTHING illegal about that.

I notice you left out the initial screenshot of the DB wrapping his arms around the WR's shoulder.

I don't really care enough to continue to argue with you about it, but you are suggesting that the DB had nothing to do with the contact which is just absolutely incorrect. 

Yeah...no. The WR is clearly initiating the contact.  The Bama DB is getting knocked backwards, and then the Clemson WR continues to plow forward low into the DB's legs, as seen above.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Yeah...no. The WR is clearly initiating the contact.

ok

[MerrittsMustache]

Yeah...no. The WR is clearly initiating the contact.

[wadesworld]

Also the PI that set Clemson up at the 2 occurred outside of the end zone.  The ball landed in the end zone, but the contact between the DB and the WR was pretty clearly at the 2 yard line.  So instead of being at the 2 yard line that should've been a half the distance to the goal.

[MerrittsMustache]

Also the PI that set Clemson up at the 2 occurred outside of the end zone.  The ball landed in the end zone, but the contact between the DB and the WR was pretty clearly at the 2 yard line.  So instead of being at the 2 yard line that should've been a half the distance to the goal.

Nope. In college football, PI is a spot foul within 15 yards of the LOS.

[wadesworld]

Nope. In college football, PI is a spot foul within 15 yards of the LOS.

Okay.  So you put the ball at the 4 yard line, where the infraction occurred.  The ref said over the loud speaker "PI in the end zone.  The ball will be placed at the 2."  Pretty clear the PI did not occur in the end zone...

[MerrittsMustache]

Okay.  So you put the ball at the 4 yard line, where the infraction occurred.  The ref said over the loud speaker "PI in the end zone.  The ball will be placed at the 2."  Pretty clear the PI did not occur in the end zone...

Yeesh. Think of how much nit-picking you'd be doing if it weren't for the fact that you "had no interest in the outcome."

[naginiF]

Yeah, they were pretty good this year, but the SEC hype totally turns me off to college football. Remember a few years ago when we had to listen to the line that Tebow may have been the greatest college player ever.

We went to bed with about 10 min left when i checked the score this AM ESPN headline didn't disappoint (paraphrasing) "Clemson beats Alabama by playing like Alabama".  Crediting the SEC after a loss - classic.

[wadesworld]

Yeesh. Think of how much nit-picking you'd be doing if it weren't for the fact that you "had no interest in the outcome."

Yeah.  Probably a lot more.  You don't think the 2 yards make a difference?

I mean, it's pretty simple.  Did the PI occur in the end zone as the referee stated, and as they assessed the penalty?

Maybe what I'm seeing is ridiculous, but I don't think my eye sight is that bad.  He's pretty clearly nowhere near the end zone when there's PI.  So they get the ball at the 4 instead of the 2 with 9 seconds to go.  They run their fade.  Does that take an extra second off the clock and get it down to 5, maybe 4 seconds instead of 6?  If it does, does Dabo feel like he has time to run a shot to the end zone and still have time left on the clock if it doesn't work?  If he doesn't, does he kick the field goal?  Are we in overtime?

It's not really like that's a small deal.  His playcalling and clock management probably change quite a bit.  Are you calling an illegal pick if you're at the 4 and not the 2?  I mean, the play ended with 1 second left on the clock.  Let's say they're at the 4, no extra time ran off on the previous play, and Clemson completes the pass but gets tackled at the 1.  Is that extra yard they went enough to run the clock to 0:00?

You might think 2 extra yards is nitpicking, but I'd suggest you don't understand time and situation then.

[MU82]

A few things (don't want to address each individually) ...

The interference wasn't in the end zone, but it was at about the 2, and it's a spot foul when the LOS is inside the 15, so either way spotting it at the 2 was about right. In the grand scheme, 5 more yards might have mattered, another half-yard or yard wouldn't have.

Swinney has 'nads the size of grapefruits. It would have been very easy - and very understandable - to play for the tying FG. Had Clemson turned the ball over, Swinney would have been second-guessed for years.

I thought the TD that made it 24-14 should have been offensive interference, and so did Herbstreit, whom I think is a very knowledgeable commentator. I thought the winning TD was not an illegal pick at all. The receiver made the initial contact, which is legal, and the DB then grabbed the receiver by the shoulder pads to cause everything that happened afterward.

There were at least a half-dozen bad interference or no-interference calls in the game. College refs are as bad at that call as NFL refs are. They seem to have no clue, often calling interference when there is barely any contact and making no call when the WR gets blatantly interfered with. I agree that the whole situation is exacerbated by slo-mo replay, hi-def, etc - the viewers have advantages the refs do not. But the refs are wrong so often, and those are such huge plays - especially in the NFL, where a penalty can be 50+ yards.

I live in the ET zone, which is brutal for TV sports to begin with. College football is the worst. Thank goodness for the DVR - I had to watch the game into the wee hours, but I did not see one second of one commercial, didn't have to sit through countless showings of replays, etc. Bliss.

Tebow was a heck of a college football player and I'd even give him being one of the best of his generation. But he wasn't the best ever and if somebody pointed that out, he/she often was accused of being anti-Christian, which was pretty funny.

So happy to see Saban lose. Tyrant, jagoff, bully, micromanager, hypocrite ... he is everything I hate about many (most?) D1 college football coaches.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yeah.  Probably a lot more.  You don't think the 2 yards make a difference?

I mean, it's pretty simple.  Did the PI occur in the end zone as the referee stated, and as they assessed the penalty?

Maybe what I'm seeing is ridiculous, but I don't think my eye sight is that bad.  He's pretty clearly nowhere near the end zone when there's PI.  So they get the ball at the 4 instead of the 2 with 9 seconds to go.  They run their fade.  Does that take an extra second off the clock and get it down to 5, maybe 4 seconds instead of 6?  If it does, does Dabo feel like he has time to run a shot to the end zone and still have time left on the clock if it doesn't work?  If he doesn't, does he kick the field goal?  Are we in overtime?

It's not like that's a small deal.  But hey, what I believe is ridiculous.

What you believe about the picks is both ridiculous and wrong.

No where near the end zone?! Seriously?! He was at the 2 yard line! That's where they placed the ball. The ref may have said that the PI was in the end zone but the result was the same. The ball was placed at the 2.

[wadesworld]

What you believe about the picks is both ridiculous and wrong.

No where near the end zone?! Seriously?! He was at the 2 yard line! That's where they placed the ball. The ref may have said that the PI was in the end zone but the result was the same. The ball was placed at the 2.

Go check out the middle screenshot I included.  The PI is clearly occurring, and he's clearly 1 step inside the 5 yard line.  He's much closer to the 5 yard line than he is the goal line.

[MU B2002]

If we want to start picking nits on picks and PI calls on Clemson, we can break down what seemed to be 3-5 non-calls on helmet to helmet contact by Alabama defense.  Including what appeared to be clear targeting on Mike Williams by the Alabama DB arriving late to the play in Q1. 

[wadesworld]

If we want to start picking nits on picks and PI calls on Clemson, we can break down what seemed to be 3-5 non-calls on helmet to helmet contact by Alabama defense.  Including what appeared to be clear targeting on Mike Williams by the Alabama DB arriving late to the play in Q1.

Unfortunately I only sat the last 10 minutes of the game.

[MU B2002]

Unfortunately I only sat the last 10 minutes of the game.

So, about 90 minutes of clock time.

That was a good 10 minutes to tune in for.

[MU82]

If we want to start picking nits on picks and PI calls on Clemson, we can break down what seemed to be 3-5 non-calls on helmet to helmet contact by Alabama defense.  Including what appeared to be clear targeting on Mike Williams by the Alabama DB arriving late to the play in Q1.

Word.

That was blatant and vicious. Bad miss by the refs.

[GGGG]

Yeah...no. The WR is clearly initiating the contact.  The Bama DB is getting knocked backwards, and then the Clemson WR continues to plow forward low into the DB's legs, as seen above.

A receiver can initiate contact on the defender that is guarding him. 

This article pretty much says that the game winning TD was not illegal.  The first one was a bit more of a gray area left to the discretion of the officials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/01/10/yes-clemson-ran-a-pick-play-to-beat-alabama-but-it-was-a-legal-play/?utm_term=.cb1d673710ee

Interesting that the article supposes that Alabama may have been intentionally trying to commit a PI on the last play trying to make sure that Clemson kicks the FG to tie.

[Tugg Speedman]

Hate to break it to you but that's how they do it in College Football. There is a replay official in the stadium that is monitoring the replay and decides to initiate a replay and then makes the determination with the field official.

It is still WAY too slow. 

The booth official should make the call, like the announcements can in about 8 seconds.  Then TELL the field official where to spot the ball, blow the whistle and run the next play.  Do not slow it down by asking him, move the game along.

The current procedure is terrible.

[brandx]

Tebow was a pretty damn good college football player.  Greatest ever?  No.  But probably one of the best five over the last 20 years.

Which makes my point.

Alabama's defense was very good this year - not last night - but was not "maybe the greatest ever".

[Spotcheck Billy]

If we want to start picking nits on picks and PI calls on Clemson, we can break down what seemed to be 3-5 non-calls on helmet to helmet contact by Alabama defense.  Including what appeared to be clear targeting on Mike Williams by the Alabama DB arriving late to the play in Q1. 

If we're thinking about the same play the announcers ran that by their official who stated it was not targeting because the defender did not connect with the crown of his helmet but the side of his helmet.

[jesmu84]

If we're thinking about the same play the announcers ran that by their official who stated it was not targeting because the defender did not connect with the crown of his helmet but the side of his helmet.

Wasn't paying attention to the announcers at the time, but what about the one that sent Watson helicoptering through the air? Tore the white stripe right at the top of the Alabama defender's helmet.

[MU B2002]

If we're thinking about the same play the announcers ran that by their official who stated it was not targeting because the defender did not connect with the crown of his helmet but the side of his helmet.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/1/9/14209178/alabama-clemson-2017-national-championship


can't get the gifs to load.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Wasn't paying attention to the announcers at the time, but what about the one that sent Watson helicoptering through the air? Tore the white stripe right at the top of the Alabama defender's helmet.

Against who? Watson or the Bama defender. Watson pretty much went head first for the first down and got spun. Dont thing there was any foul play there.

Hes more lucky his leg didnt plant while he was spinning and shred his knee, looked close there for a second. I mean cmon now, cant let the Bears future starting QB get hurt in the national championship game now, can we?

[jesmu84]

Against who? Watson or the Bama defender. Watson pretty much went head first for the first down and got spun. Dont thing there was any foul play there.

Hes more lucky his leg didnt plant while he was spinning and shred his knee, looked close there for a second. I mean cmon now, cant let the Bears future starting QB get hurt in the national championship game now, can we?

Bama defender. Crown of his helmet into Watson's facemask. I understand Watson lowered his head a bit, but I've seen targeting called for less

[JWags85]

Which makes my point.

Alabama's defense was very good this year - not last night - but was not "maybe the greatest ever".

Greatest ever is a bit of a stretch, but people called this the best college team since '01 Miami, and I can't disagree.  This was probably Saban's best Bama team.  Monday night was exceptional, but they absolutely dismantled very good teams all year.  Look what they did to Washington.  I think people don't realize the true effect of losing Kiffin for that game.  He shaped Hurts most of the year with play calling.  Scarborough getting hurt just amplified it.

[GGGG]

Greatest ever is a bit of a stretch, but people called this the best college team since '01 Miami, and I can't disagree.  This was probably Saban's best Bama team.  Monday night was exceptional, but they absolutely dismantled very good teams all year.  Look what they did to Washington.  I think people don't realize the true effect of losing Kiffin for that game.  He shaped Hurts most of the year with play calling.  Scarborough getting hurt just amplified it.

I would say the '04 USC team would be in the running along with the '01 Miami team and any Bama team under Saban.  (Yeah I know they had their wins vacated, but holy hell did they destroy Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl that year.)

[brandx]

Greatest ever is a bit of a stretch, but people called this the best college team since '01 Miami, and I can't disagree.  This was probably Saban's best Bama team.  Monday night was exceptional, but they absolutely dismantled very good teams all year.  Look what they did to Washington.  I think people don't realize the true effect of losing Kiffin for that game.  He shaped Hurts most of the year with play calling.  Scarborough getting hurt just amplified it.

I only brought up defense. The '11 Alabama team had a better defense for starters. I could name a few others as well.

[bradley center bat]

I'm not even a big college football fan.

Oh heartbreaking! Greatest thing in the world!