MU picked for 7th in Big East

[wadesworld]

Lots of needless energy wasted on trying to refute a 7th place, preseason prediction in a sport which crowns an overall champion at it's year end, anyway.  Who cares where we are "picked?" All I care about is where we finish after we play........ Results based on performance, not projection.

But, how can anyone expect any lofty predictions anyway. We had a so-so 20 win season with an NBA first rounder who was one and done with us and as we were not invited to any post season dance. Especially the big one, NCAA. Remaining guys don't exactly strike fear into others in the league at this moment to be considered any higher. I think a degree of "homerism" afflicts those of us with lofty thoughts......

Luke is 6' 11", that is all.... If he is our "MVP" we are in a bit of trouble, really. He may be a nice enough guy but is slow, unathletic, has fair hands, poor free throw shooting, is foul prone and isn't really smooth around the basket. Forget about holding his own vs other bigs who are more aggressive. He AND Henry didn't dominate nearly enough when they were on the floor together last year.....really. Why do you think Indiana let him escape in the first place?????

The other guys have a lot to prove this year before we can anoint them improved from last year..... Have to find shooters who can shoot/score. A true point guard to run and control the offense and get us down the court, etc.......... Defense that can create stops....blah, blah, blah...... Much said before by lots of others....

Just my thoughts but let's just start playing and see where we are and where we go. I hope to be better in March than November if we are making progress here............

Lol.

[muwarrior69]

Unfortunately, you will understand it better on 12-28-16.

Sadly, agree.

[muwarrior69]

Look out people, the boxer said good day, that means you must be quiet.

I did not know he spoke Australian.

[BM1090]

Yeah we've sucked in the tournament but Hoyas Are just 4 years removed from winning the conference and Just 2 years removed from a second place finish in the conference. Let's not act like we're DePaul.

Marquette is also 4 years removed from winning the conference.

[hoyasincebirth]

Marquette is also 4 years removed from winning the conference.

I know that. I never stated Marquette consistently underachieved though. Besides.

#1 seed = true champ everyone knows this. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

I'd bet they'll finish better than 7th. Returning 4 starters but they don't mention the 2 transfers that started and played major roles for their respective teams. They'll need to rebound at every position and figure out how to play average defense. I think they're a NIT team and dark horse for the tourney. I'm bullish.

Duane and Sandy started last year too at various times.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Duane and Sandy started last year too at various times.

Unless something drastic happened this offseason, Sandy is going to be very low on the totem pole. Especially with the addition of Katin.

Kinda OT but I was looking at the top 100 from 2012 and i'm pretty sure Katin and Teve are the only two that are still in college. Denzel Valentine was also ranked behind both of them.

[brewcity77]

Unfortunately, you will understand it better on 12-28-16.

Even if they beat us, that's just not at all true. I look at the season, not just one game. Same reason I don't overrate a player just because they had a good night against us.

[Jay Bee]

Kinda OT but I was looking at the top 100 from 2012 and i'm pretty sure Katin and Teve are the only two that are still in college. Denzel Valentine was also ranked behind both of them.

Say what? How you get pretty sure with that? There's a bunch... a couple of I4's... Hollowell & Hanner... Shaq Cleare... LJ Rose... Chicken Knowles

[The Lens]

Basis for this evaluation?

Just based on watching him play.  He seems to me to be a high floor, low ceiling guy. 

[MUDPT]

Some pre-season rankings are out:

Matchup Rank: http://www.matchup-zone.com/conferences/BigEast, picked 4th, 57% chance of making the tournament

T-Rank: http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html picked 6th

[keefe]

I'll never forget when Tanned Tommy took the 3 freshmen but left Joe Chapman at home.

What a clueless, classless tool

[Marcus92]

Some pre-season rankings are out:

Matchup Rank: http://www.matchup-zone.com/conferences/BigEast, picked 4th, 57% chance of making the tournament

T-Rank: http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html picked 6th

Interesting. The projections for Marquette are very similar: either 17-12 or 18-11 overall, 9-9 in the Big East.

Matchup Zone has Creighton, Georgetown, MU and Seton Hall separated by the slimmest of margins (8.7 to 9.3 conference wins). T-Rank puts Butler, Georgetown, MU and Seton Hall at 9-9, with Creighton a game better at 10-8.

I have no idea how valid or predictive either of these are. But they do seem to agree with the general consensus that the difference between 4th and 7th in the Big East this season will be razor thin.

[Babybluejeans]

I agree somewhat. We didn't know for sure if Steve could be "the man" and maybe you could say the same about Lazar and Jae. But we knew if we were going to be any good Lazar and Steve HAD to be the man. Ditto for Jae if we were going to be great.

I'm not even sure this year which of 8 or 9 guys needs to be "the man".

Fair point. In the end, I think this season will tell us more about Wojo's coaching abilities than any individual player's. There are deficiencies on the roster, yes, but there's loads of talent, too.

I know comparisons are odious but let's be honest: this is a team (talented + underestimated) that Buzz and TC would thrive with. It's also the type of team that the post-2000 Marquette program routinely produces, so a successful MU coach will have to be able to win with these ingredients.

[Warriors, Come Out and Playeeyay]

[muwarrior69]

Fair point. In the end, I think this season will tell us more about Wojo's coaching abilities than any individual player's. There are deficiencies on the roster, yes, but there's loads of talent, too.

I know comparisons are odious but let's be honest: this is a team (talented + underestimated) that Buzz and TC would thrive with. It's also the type of team that the post-2000 Marquette program routinely produces, so a successful MU coach will have to be able to win with these ingredients.

Over the last 3 seasons looks like everyone else's "talent" is better than ours on the court.

[The Lens]

Some would say there is talent there...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Over the last 3 seasons looks like everyone else's "talent" is better than ours on the court.

.....wojos talent has only been here for one season and it won 20 games despite being one of the 7 most inexperienced rosters in the country.....

[fjm]

.....wojos talent has only been here for one season and it won 20 games despite being one of the 7 most inexperienced rosters in the country.....

My favorite is when everyone freaks out and say it's his second talent. Cause his first recruiting class was technically carlino! 

[Galway Eagle]

My favorite is when everyone freaks out and say it's his second talent. Cause his first recruiting class was technically carlino! 

And sandy

[Lennys Tap]

Some would say there is talent there...

Experienced talent, too.

[BM1090]

Experienced talent, too.

This year, sure. Last year? No.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Experienced talent, too.

Yes! We have a senior C and wing scorer, and almost everyone else that will get significant minutes has at least 1 year of BEast experience under their belts along with pedigrees/reputations out of high school. I'm thinking top 4 finish with NCAA berth at minimum this year.

[Marcus92]

Experienced talent, too.

I don't think this can be overstated.

We didn't have a single senior on the active roster last season. We'll have 3 for the 2016-17 campaign, each projected to be a major contributor: Luke Fischer, Jajuan Johnson and Katin Reinhardt. Beyond that, Duane Wilson and Andrew Rowsey are redshirt juniors (effectively seniors as fourth-year players) and Sandy Cohen enters his junior year.

That's 6 upperclassmen versus just 3 a year ago (Fischer, Johnson and Wally). And they've all seen significant playing time:

Reinhardt: 2822 minutes
Rowsey: 2166 minutes
Wilson: 1838 minutes
Fischer: 1766 minutes
Johnson: 1613 minutes
Cohen: 1210 minutes

Combined, that's almost 300 games of on-court time. Compare that to fewer than 50 games worth of playing time between Fischer, Johnson and Wally going into last season.

That kind of experience is invaluable in college basketball — especially in dealing with pressure situations and helping younger players (like Traci Carter, Haanif Cheatham, Markus Howard, Matt Heldt or Sam Hauser) play smarter, protect the ball, know where to be on defense, et cetera. Wojo should be able to count on the upperclassmen as coaches on the court.

No guarantees, of course. Years on campus don't automatically translate into wins. But it's potentially another very strong positive indicator for this team.

[mu03eng]

I don't think this can be overstated.

We didn't have a single senior on the active roster last season. We'll have 3 for the 2016-17 campaign, each projected to be a major contributor: Luke Fischer, Jajuan Johnson and Katin Reinhardt. Beyond that, Duane Wilson and Andrew Rowsey are redshirt juniors (effectively seniors as fourth-year players) and Sandy Cohen enters his junior year.

That's 6 upperclassmen versus just 3 a year ago (Fischer, Johnson and Wally). And they've all seen significant playing time:

Reinhardt: 2822 minutes
Rowsey: 2166 minutes
Wilson: 1838 minutes
Fischer: 1766 minutes
Johnson: 1613 minutes
Cohen: 1210 minutes

Combined, that's almost 300 games of on-court time. Compare that to fewer than 50 games worth of playing time between Fischer, Johnson and Wally going into last season.

That kind of experience is invaluable in college basketball — especially in dealing with pressure situations and helping younger players (like Traci Carter, Haanif Cheatham, Markus Howard, Matt Heldt or Sam Hauser) play smarter, protect the ball, know where to be on defense, et cetera. Wojo should be able to count on the upperclassmen as coaches on the court.

No guarantees, of course. Years on campus don't automatically translate into wins. But it's potentially another very strong positive indicator for this team.

And this is why I don't get how so many are automatically down on this team before the season starts. There is a potential they stink, but it is at least as likely if not more that this team will exceed expectations based on the significant improvement in experience.