The Official Cubs Win The World Series Thread

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Haha.  Ok.

This you bro?

https://thekicker.com/guy-in-suspiciously-new-cubs-hat-ive-waited-a-long-time-for-this/

Was that one intended for me?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Bingo

I often wonder how complete idiots don't realize they are complete idiots. You're doing a great job of answering that question.

[wadesworld]

I often wonder how complete idiots don't realize they are complete idiots. You're doing a great job of answering that question.

Yeah you typically see pitchers increase their average pitch speed by 2 mph and go from complete garbage to best pitcher in baseball at 26 years old naturally.

By the way, what is the conclusion that I led you to to the question you were pondering?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Yeah you typically see pitchers increase their average pitch speed by 2 mph and go from complete garbage to best pitcher in baseball at 26 years old naturally.

By the way, what is the conclusion that I led you to to the question you were pondering?

Nothing you wrote there is accurate. Accusing Arrieta of juicing is pure idiocy and nothing more. 

[wadesworld]

Nothing you wrote there is accurate. Accusing Arrieta of juicing is pure idiocy and nothing more.

You're right. I was wrong. He went from garbage to the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28. Nothing abnormal about that at all. Totally common that athletes in any sport don't develop one bit in their early to mid 20s but then hit those late 20s and not only get solid, but get historically good. That's usually when pitchers start throwing harder than they ever did before too.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

You're right. I was wrong. He went from garbage to the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 28. Nothing abnormal about that at all. Totally common that athletes in any sport don't develop one bit in their early to mid 20s but then hit those late 20s and not only get solid, but get historically good. That's usually when pitchers start throwing harder than they ever did before too.

I'd suggest you do a bit more research.

Moron.

You sound like Stephen A. Smith.

[wadesworld]

I'd suggest you do a bit more research.

Moron.

You sound like Stephen A. Smith.

Lol. Please do tell! I can't wait to hear. Staring at his pitch velocity now. Oddly enough it was down until 3 seasons ago, way up the past 2 seasons, and back down this season. And his numbers aren't even debateable. So I'd love to know what's wrong. Very intrigued.

[LAZER]

Lol. Please do tell! I can't wait to hear. Staring at his pitch velocity now. Oddly enough it was down until 3 seasons ago, way up the past 2 seasons, and back down this season. And his numbers aren't even debateable. So I'd love to know what's wrong. Very intrigued.

Eh, I think you're grasping at straws here. I don't think his velocity chart is enough to definitively conclude PED's. Also the fact that he has never failed a test might be relevant too.

[wadesworld]

Eh, I think you're grasping at straws here. I don't think his velocity chart is enough to definitively conclude PED's. Also the fact that he has never failed a test might be relevant too.

Again, unless you're an idiot like Braun it's harder to get caught while using PEDs than it is to take them but still beat the system. Not failing a drug test in baseball proves absolutely nothing.

Like I said, it's completely common for athletes in all sports to be bad (relative to their competition) at that sport through their early and mid 20s and then all of a sudden develop into a historically good player at whatever sport it is when they're 28 years old. Late 20s are definitely when you see the biggest improvement in athletes performances.

[warriorchick]

Not taking a position on Arrieta either way, but plenty of guys have tested negative for PEDs.  Until they didn't.

[wadesworld]

Not taking a position on Arrieta either way, but plenty of guys have tested negative for PEDs.  Until they didn't.

Right.  If people here really believe that only 8 MLB players have used PEDs this year then I have a bridge to sell a lot of people here.

[MerrittsMustache]

Again, unless you're an idiot like Braun it's harder to get caught while using PEDs than it is to take them but still beat the system. Not failing a drug test in baseball proves absolutely nothing.

Like I said, it's completely common for athletes in all sports to be bad (relative to their competition) at that sport through their early and mid 20s and then all of a sudden develop into a historically good player at whatever sport it is when they're 28 years old. Late 20s are definitely when you see the biggest improvement in athletes performances.

Arrieta was a top 70 prospect coming up in the Orioles' system. He wasn't just some guy who came out of no where. He always had great stuff but struggled with command. He also had 3 different pitching coaches in his first 2 big league seasons. In 2013, he had a 7.23 ERA with Baltimore before finishing the season with a 3.66 ERA for the Cubs. Did he start juicing as soon as he was traded?

Jason Hammel has a 3.59 career ERA as a Cub and a 4.77 ERA for 3 other teams. Does he only juice when he's a Cub?

Scott Feldman had a 3.46 ERA as a Cub and has a 4.47 ERA with other teams. Did he only juice for his 15 starts with the Cubs?

Trevor Cahill, Travis Wood, Pedro Strop - all of those pitchers were better as Cubs than they were with their previous teams. Is Theo making sure everyone is juiced or do you think that Chris Bosio might have something to do with it?

[GGGG]

Didn't Arietta also completely change his release points when he came to Chicago?  I have no idea if he is using PEDs or not, but he did significantly change his mechanics from what I recall under Bosio. 

[wadesworld]

Arrieta was a top 70 prospect coming up in the Orioles' system. He wasn't just some guy who came out of no where. He always had great stuff but struggled with command. He also had 3 different pitching coaches in his first 2 big league seasons. In 2013, he had a 7.23 ERA with Baltimore before finishing the season with a 3.66 ERA for the Cubs. Did he start juicing as soon as he was traded?

Jason Hammel has a 3.59 career ERA as a Cub and a 4.77 ERA for 3 other teams. Does he only juice when he's a Cub?

Scott Feldman had a 3.46 ERA as a Cub and has a 4.47 ERA with other teams. Did he only juice for his 15 starts with the Cubs?

Trevor Cahill, Travis Wood, Pedro Strop - all of those pitchers were better as Cubs than they were with their previous teams. Is Theo making sure everyone is juiced or do you think that Chris Bosio might have something to do with it?

I don't recall any of those players going from a garbage pitcher to a historically good pitcher in 1 offseason's time.  But I could be wrong there.  There's a big difference dropping your ERA by 1 run to dropping your ERA by 4.5 runs at 28 years old.  Did those guys go 2 seasons of historical pitching, then vehemently deny any PED use, and then magically his average pitch speeds go back to what they were before he magically became the best pitcher in baseball at 28 years old?  If so, we can compare the situations.  I'm fairly confident in saying that wasn't the case though.

I just think it's funny that Chicago sports fans get all hot and bothered when someone even considers the possibility that a 28 year old started throwing the ball harder and went from a guy with a career ERA of over 5 to someone who had a couple of the best seasons in the history of baseball in one offseason probably used PEDs, but then cry and scream at every chance that "Oh my gosh an NFL linebacker took HGH!  Clay Matthews is such a doper!"  There's no doubt in my mind that Clay Matthews took PEDs.  BUT if either of Jake Arrieta's rise or Clay Matthews's rise makes sense as "natural" it's without a doubt Clay Matthews.  NFL bloodline, developed at 18-20 years old (you know, when athletes actually do develop physically), has been a fairly dominant, but not the greatest football player on the planet.  Meanwhile Arrieta is just as jacked up as the OLB that Clay Matthews is and completely stunk until he hit the age of 28 years old, where not only do his statistics suddenly become historically good, but his pitch speeds increase across the board.

Again, no doubt Clay Matthews did PEDs somewhere along the line.  But if there's one athlete whose development matches that of someone who did it "naturally" it is certainly not Jake Arrieta.  The guy PED'd his ass off.  And good for him, it's paid off and he's going to be an even richer man for it.  Again, those who don't have an insanely uphill battle in baseball.

[brewcity77]

Like I said, it's completely common for athletes in all sports to be bad (relative to their competition) at that sport through their early and mid 20s and then all of a sudden develop into a historically good player at whatever sport it is when they're 28 years old. Late 20s are definitely when you see the biggest improvement in athletes performances.

No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
.

• Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
• Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
• Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
• Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.

.
Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.

I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.

[wadesworld]

No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
.

• Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
• Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
• Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
• Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.

.
Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.

I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.

Not sure I can really speak of Davvy Vance in the 1920s or Dave Stewart in the 1970s, but Randy Johnson admits himself that he doesn't even know what he took.  Randy endorsed Champion Nutrition, who is linked to Big Mac/androstenedione.

"I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."

[brewcity77]

Not sure I can really speak of Davvy Vance in the 1920s or Dave Stewart in the 1970s, but Randy Johnson admits himself that he doesn't even know what he took.  Randy endorsed Champion Nutrition, who is linked to Big Mac/androstenedione.

"I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."

Which proves my point that you can't definitively say "look at the stats, he must be juicing." Maybe Johnson used illegal substances, maybe he didn't. Who knows, maybe Vance had a secret super chemist back in the 1920s. But guys improving vastly isn't a new thing. Arrieta isn't the first and certainly won't be the last.

[MerrittsMustache]

Didn't Arietta also completely change his release points when he came to Chicago?  I have no idea if he is using PEDs or not, but he did significantly change his mechanics from what I recall under Bosio.

Correct. He also added a slider/cutter and began using his sinker more.

Jonah Keri wrote a very good breakdown about it last year.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/

[LAZER]

Right.  If people here really believe that only 8 MLB players have used PEDs this year then I have a bridge to sell a lot of people here.

I'm not saying I believe this. I disagree with your definitive assertion that he used PED's because you've analyzed a velocity chart.

[RushmoreAcademy]

I was one in the court of not putting Schwarber on the playoff roster.  I've never been so happy to be wrong.
That said, I don't know about playing him in LF.   Leverage a good situation to get him in with runners on base and let him pinch, but memories of him in left against NY in the NLCS are still a little fresh and that's when he was healthy.
Weather reports saying that there could be a 20 mph wind blowing out on Friday night at Wrigley.  Certainly better than blowing in against a team that can manufacture a run better than you.  In Hendricks we believe.

[brewcity77]

I was one in the court of not putting Schwarber on the playoff roster.  I've never been so happy to be wrong.
That said, I don't know about playing him in LF.   Leverage a good situation to get him in with runners on base and let him pinch, but memories of him in left against NY in the NLCS are still a little fresh and that's when he was healthy.
Weather reports saying that there could be a 20 mph wind blowing out on Friday night at Wrigley.  Certainly better than blowing in against a team that can manufacture a run better than you.  In Hendricks we believe.

I was completely on the fence on Schwarber and would have leaned toward leaving him off. Also glad to be wrong. From what I heard last night, he's not cleared to play in the field yet. They'd have to get him approved by a doctor for that. Really hope they just leave him as a pinch hitter at home, though his bat is certainly hot. I'd like to see Heyward back in there, I know his bat is ice cold, but his defense is fantastic.

[RushmoreAcademy]

I'd like to see Heyward back in there, I know his bat is ice cold, but his defense is fantastic.

I'm not against Heyward playing. Worst case, play Almora until you get a lead.

[🏀]

Not sure I can really speak of Davvy Vance in the 1920s or Dave Stewart in the 1970s, but Randy Johnson admits himself that he doesn't even know what he took.  Randy endorsed Champion Nutrition, who is linked to Big Mac/androstenedione.

"I took a lot of different things that, you know, maybe at that time, maybe early enough if I would've been tested, who knows? I could have been taking stuff had they tested me back then. Maybe I would have tested (positive for a banned supplement). I don't know."

Dude, effing relax. It's not PEDs, STFU.

He grew a beard after Baltimore, that did it.

[GGGG]

No one is saying it's completely common, but it's hardly unprecedented.
.

• Dave Stewart had a 30-35 record when he was traded to the Oakland A's at age 29. In the next 5 seasons, he posted a 93-40 record while winning 20 games in 4 straight years.
• Randy Johnson had a 56-61 record after 7 seasons in the bigs. At age 29, he erupted as a dominant pitcher, going 19-8 that season enroute to 303 career wins.
• Dazzy Vance had an 0-4 career record when he signed with Brooklyn at age 31 way back in 1922. He went on to record 197 wins, including going 28-6 with a 2.16 ERA and 262 strikeouts in 1924 to win the pitching Triple Crown.
• Jamie Moyer was 59-76 at age 32 when suddenly he found his stuff, and from ages 33-40 went 126-56.

.
Joe Nathan, Curt Davis, Hoyt Wilhelm, R.A. Dickey, Sandy Koufax, baseball has plenty of pitchers who didn't blossom until they were in their mid-20s or even into their 30s. It's easy to say steroids, but many of these guys became great pitchers after a change in scenery, similar to what Arrieta went through.

I'm not saying it's definitively not steroids. I don't think it is, but I don't truly know. But even if he keeps this up for the next 10 years, it wouldn't be unprecedented (Johnson pitched at an elite level into his 40s) and it wouldn't be definitively indicative of anything other than him being a great pitcher.

David Stewart isn't a great example because he was primarily used out of the bullpen for most of his early career.  The guy had almost 300 appearances though age 29, only about 60 were starts.  He became a full-time starter when it got to Oakland.  He had his best ERA years early on in his career though.

Jamie Moyer is a very good example though.  He was always a starter and his ERA actually dropped as he got into his 30s.  Finished high up on some Cy Young ballots too.

[tower912]

Last year, there was an article in SI about JA and how/why he was throwing so much better as a Cub.    The crux of it was that (A) in Baltimore they wanted him to throw more traditionally.   They were worried about him hurting his arm throwing across his body.   In Chicago, they allowed him to throw in the way that was more natural for him.   (B) He got into a workout regime that seriously strengthened his core and improved his flexibility.   

Better conditioning and a return to his natural motion equals a drastic leap.