Levi Stockard

[Aircraftcarrier]

Does anyone know if he is visiting MU this weekend?

[Herman Cain]

Does anyone know if he is visiting MU this weekend?

We need to get him here soon....

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/6341688/57bf1a2e842eb257002210f2

Levi is a top priority.

[wadesworld]

We need to get him here soon....

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/6341688/57bf1a2e842eb257002210f2

Levi is a top priority.

If by "top priority" you mean "backup plan," then I agree with this analysis.

[Herman Cain]

If by "top priority" you mean "backup plan," then I agree with this analysis.

This kid is extremely agile and has incredible footwork. A stone wall of muscle and quick reflexes.  I think his upside is enormous  and that is why he is on the priority list. So do Xavier , K State, Texas A and M and others. 

With a year of Training from Todd this kid could be 275 of lean muscle.

[brandx]

This kid is extremely agile and has incredible footwork. A stone wall of muscle and quick reflexes.  I think his upside is enormous  and that is why he is on the priority list. So do Xavier , K State, Texas A and M and others. 

With a year of Training from Todd this kid could be 275 of lean muscle.

Not to disparage Todd in any way at all, but all major college teams have their own Todd Smith.

[Herman Cain]

Not to disparage Todd in any way at all, but all major college teams have their own Todd Smith.

Todd is better .

[cheebs09]

Todd is better .

Everything I've heard is very good, but we have been overmatched physically recently in the Big East. It may be that they just couldn't put it down n the muscle due to their frames, but I now hesitate assuming anyone can just put on muscle to get to a Big a East level. Wojo seems to be correcting that with this class. Also, it sounds like Hauser came in stronger than expected.

[muwarrior69]

We have a football team?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We need to get him here soon....

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/6341688/57bf1a2e842eb257002210f2

Levi is a top priority.

So are you saying that Stockard should be valued above Tillman, Nwora, Cain, French, and Epperson? Or are all of them top priorities? IMHO, Stockard has great potential and I would love to have him, but I'd place him sixth on my wish list. We're only gonna sign four max this fall and we already have two who have lined up to volunteer.

[4everwarriors]

From what I'm seein', the cat should concentrate on football. Could be da next Ted Hendricks, ai na?

[Galway Eagle]

Everything I've heard is very good, but we have been overmatched physically recently in the Big East. It may be that they just couldn't put it down n the muscle due to their frames, but I now hesitate assuming anyone can just put on muscle to get to a Big a East level. Wojo seems to be correcting that with this class. Also, it sounds like Hauser came in stronger than expected.

This we've been trying to play ACC style players in the Big East. I wonder how much input a coach has in Todds strategy, could be Wojo made some tweeks he shouldn't have

[wadesworld]

We had a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids.  Not many guys enter college at 6'6", 220 lbs.  Jimmy Butler wasn't exactly a jacked up kid when he got to Marquette, and he even had a year at a JUCO under him.  For a lot of college basketball players, their freshman year is their first year in a (real) weight training program.

Carter, Hank, Cheatham, Heldt, and Sacar (see: Wojo's first recruiting class) all have the frame to be Big East bodies.

[Herman Cain]

We had a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids.  Not many guys enter college at 6'6", 220 lbs.  Jimmy Butler wasn't exactly a jacked up kid when he got to Marquette, and he even had a year at a JUCO under him.  For a lot of college basketball players, their freshman year is their first year in a (real) weight training program.

Carter, Hank, Cheatham, Heldt, and Sacar (see: Wojo's first recruiting class) all have the frame to be Big East bodies.

Matt Heldt is a great example of what we do with a kid in our strength and conditioning program. He came in as a puffy pasty soft marshmellow and now the kid is lean and has the muscle mass.

Sacar is an absolute beast now after a year pounding iron. Haanif is significantly bigger as well. Even a guy like Rowsey is getting stronger.

We have even made progress with the beanpole guys like JJJ and Sandy. I think JJJ is around 205 now.  It is hard to put muscle on those kind of guys.

One of the guys who has benefited heavily is Luke , with all his injuries, the strength and conditioning really helped him get ready to play and this year he is finally getting some more mass.

Sam did hard work this summer and is a much different body. He will only get better with time in that regard.

Last year we got pushed around because we were running a lot of freshman and remember they took  time out of the strength program to go to Europe.

One of the things I like about Theo John is he has a very good baseline to build off of an Ike Eke has incredible shoulder span so his potential is very good .

I really have great respect for the whole training staff at MU they are first tier.

[cheebs09]

We had a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids.  Not many guys enter college at 6'6", 220 lbs.  Jimmy Butler wasn't exactly a jacked up kid when he got to Marquette, and he even had a year at a JUCO under him.  For a lot of college basketball players, their freshman year is their first year in a (real) weight training program.

Carter, Hank, Cheatham, Heldt, and Sacar (see: Wojo's first recruiting class) all have the frame to be Big East bodies.

I agree. I was thinking more of guys like JJJ, Duane, and Sandy. Sandy has put on some muscle, but still overmatched physically. JJJ took a big step last year, but I don't see him being a physical wing that we have had in the past. Juan Anderson was a guy that we hoped would get stronger once getting to college. He did, but still locked the strength he needed.

You're right, the guards will be much stronger thanks to this last class, and now he's getting the big guys to go with it. With some patience, I think we will have a fun ride in the next few years.

[wadesworld]

I agree. I was thinking more of guys like JJJ, Duane, and Sandy. Sandy has put on some muscle, but still overmatched physically. JJJ took a big step last year, but I don't see him being a physical wing that we have had in the past. Juan Anderson was a guy that we hoped would get stronger once getting to college. He did, but still locked the strength he needed.

You're right, the guards will be much stronger thanks to this last class, and now he's getting the big guys to go with it. With some patience, I think we will have a fun ride in the next few years.

Agreed, and I think that just further proves the point that Wojo hasn't suddenly come to some epiphany that he can't just recruit some skinny "ACC" kids and now realizes that the Big East is a "man's game."  All those guys you listed who are overmatched physically were Buzz recruits, a guy that everyone credits with getting tough, physical players on his teams.

My point is that Wojo isn't going to stop looking at guys like Haanif Cheatham because as a junior in high school he's a lean kid and now we're only interested in 17 year olds who are already physical specimen.  Wojo sees we need multiple bigs going into next year, and he's addressing the need.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So are you saying that Stockard should be valued above Tillman, Nwora, Cain, French, and Epperson? Or are all of them top priorities? IMHO, Stockard has great potential and I would love to have him, but I'd place him sixth on my wish list. We're only gonna sign four max this fall and we already have two who have lined up to volunteer.

Every single kid whose name is mentioned becomes a top priority must get for him. MUNY would have us sign 16-18 new kids every year. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Agreed, and I think that just further proves the point that Wojo hasn't suddenly come to some epiphany that he can't just recruit some skinny "ACC" kids and now realizes that the Big East is a "man's game."  All those guys you listed who are overmatched physically were Buzz recruits, a guy that everyone credits with getting tough, physical players on his teams.

My point is that Wojo isn't going to stop looking at guys like Haanif Cheatham because as a junior in high school he's a lean kid and now we're only interested in 17 year olds who are already physical specimen.  Wojo sees we need multiple bigs going into next year, and he's addressing the need.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I think we lost a lot in this area from the tone of the group of upperclassman that were there when Buzz left.  Of all the players with the crazy workout mindset MU has had, I wouldn't put Gardner, Wilson & Mayo on that list.  It wasn't the same as Lazar, then Jimmy/Jae/DJO whipping everyone into shape.

I also wonder if Todd changed strategy/focus a bit with a new coach as well - but cant prove anything there.

Hopefully we start to see progress and get much stronger this year-- our defense and rebounding depend on it.

[Loose Cannon]

Matt Heldt is a great example of what we do with a kid in our strength and conditioning program. He came in as a puffy pasty soft marshmellow and now the kid is lean and has the muscle mass.

Sacar is an absolute beast now after a year pounding iron. Haanif is significantly bigger as well. Even a guy like Rowsey is getting stronger.

We have even made progress with the beanpole guys like JJJ and Sandy. I think JJJ is around 205 now.  It is hard to put muscle on those kind of guys.

One of the guys who has benefited heavily is Luke , with all his injuries, the strength and conditioning really helped him get ready to play and this year he is finally getting some more mass.

Sam did hard work this summer and is a much different body. He will only get better with time in that regard.

Last year we got pushed around because we were running a lot of freshman and remember they took  time out of the strength program to go to Europe.

One of the things I like about Theo John is he has a very good baseline to build off of an Ike Eke has incredible shoulder span so his potential is very good .

I really have great respect for the whole training staff at MU they are first tier.

Just curious, are these your First hand observations or things you read?  Last year Sacar was listed at 205 and this year he is listed at 205.  I read he was in the weight room a lot this summer, is the roster incorrect?

[Herman Cain]

So are you saying that Stockard should be valued above Tillman, Nwora, Cain, French, and Epperson? Or are all of them top priorities? IMHO, Stockard has great potential and I would love to have him, but I'd place him sixth on my wish list. We're only gonna sign four max this fall and we already have two who have lined up to volunteer.

I am not saying Stockard is above Tillman etc . I think all our prospects bring different skill sets to the table.  Recruiting is very competitive, So If any of the 6 say yes I am delighted. Ideally we want one more big and one 3. I am looking at Nwora as a 3 with a great shot and Cain as a slashing 3. Tillman super soft hands great offensive threat inside, French a man amongst boys with length and real basketball pedigree. Epperson is a rim protecting 5 who could possibly even redshirt which would be a big benefit. As I mentioned Stockard has incredible agility for guy his size. That is why I am so intrigued, that kind of agility and footwork simply cannot be taught. God Given.

 I have already reconciled the fact that French is highly sought after and if we can't close on him we may have to deal with him on one of several big East teams.  However, I would prefer not to see Stockard go to Xavier or DePaul especially after we were one of the early guys after him. 

[Herman Cain]

Just curious, are these your First hand observations or things you read?  Last year Sacar was listed at 205 and this year he is listed at 205.  I read he was in the weight room a lot this summer, is the roster incorrect?

These are my first hand observations.

[cheebs09]

Agreed, and I think that just further proves the point that Wojo hasn't suddenly come to some epiphany that he can't just recruit some skinny "ACC" kids and now realizes that the Big East is a "man's game."  All those guys you listed who are overmatched physically were Buzz recruits, a guy that everyone credits with getting tough, physical players on his teams.

My point is that Wojo isn't going to stop looking at guys like Haanif Cheatham because as a junior in high school he's a lean kid and now we're only interested in 17 year olds who are already physical specimen.  Wojo sees we need multiple bigs going into next year, and he's addressing the need.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Good point. I do fall into the trap of forgetting this past freshman class was Wojo's first full class.

I totally agree with the thought that the upperclassmen on Buzz's last team weren't nearly the leaders Buzz had on his earlier teams and that caused a huge negative impact.

[Loose Cannon]

These are my first hand observations.

Thanks

[Dawson Rental]

This kid is extremely agile and has incredible footwork. A stone wall of muscle and quick reflexes.  I think his upside is enormous  and that is why he is on the priority list. So do Xavier , K State, Texas A and M and others. 

With a year of Training from Todd this kid could be 275 of lean muscle.

You're unbelievable.  You've only known that this kid even exists for what? a day? and now he's a top priority.  Because you've seen a YouTube video of him playing football?  And we know Todd Smith is going to turn this kid into an All-American.  Why?  Because any prospect who has never stepped on campus is sure to be the savior of MU basketball.

What is guaranteed to be a result of Todd Smith working with this kid for a year?  The kid will rise to the top - of your list - of kids who should self select themselves to transfer out so that Wojo can offer a scholarship to the next HS kid you just learned existed (or formally highly rated recruit who is transferring from another school) that you have instantly fallen in love with.  You are the prototypical the grass is always greener guy.  Again recruits are not an end in themselves, they are a means to an end which is wins on the floor which at a school like MU usually comes from finding guys who stay in the program for four years and develop into a cohesive team.

[LAMUfan]

Sacar is an absolute beast now after a year pounding iron.

Not trying to make fun of you, but I read this and hear Ted Cruz talking about strength training and it amuses me.  Keep pounding and putting the orange sphere into the hoops.   

[4everwarriors]

Murray, did ya down yo smart pills dis mornin'? First coherent paragraph ya put together in years, hey?

[Herman Cain]

You're unbelievable.  You've only known that this kid even exists for what? a day? and now he's a top priority.  Because you've seen a YouTube video of him playing football?  And we know Todd Smith is going to turn this kid into an All-American.  Why?  Because any prospect who has never stepped on campus is sure to be the savior of MU basketball.

What is guaranteed to be a result of Todd Smith working with this kid for a year?  The kid will rise to the top - of your list - of kids who should self select themselves to transfer out so that Wojo can offer a scholarship to the next HS kid you just learned existed (or formally highly rated recruit who is transferring from another school) that you have instantly fallen in love with.  You are the prototypical the grass is always greener guy.  Again recruits are not an end in themselves, they are a means to an end which is wins on the floor which at a school like MU usually comes from finding guys who stay in the program for four years and develop into a cohesive team.

I have been following this kid since we first offered. He has not been discussed as all the focus is on the guys we are doing the officials and home visits. It is like Epperson, not a lot of talk about him.

I Like each and every one of our existing players a lot. So definitely not a grass is greener mentality at all. People have often accused me of being too supportive of JJJ for example, which is why I have not posted a JJJ is ready for a break out season thread.

I just want to see MU get the best possible players we can . I love MU.

Recruiting is a very competitive thing . I have been on the record as saying that Wojo is a very good recruiter. I like that about him a lot. His coaching is a different matter ,primarily because I agree with your point about cohesion., I don't think Wojo has the head coaching experience  to foster that cohesion.  I am hoping it comes with time.

However in the meantime, he keeps identifying good prospects and for the most part these are all reportedly good level headed kids . So I figure they can persevere through Wojos growing pains.

[HoopsterBC]

I have been following this kid since we first offered. He has not been discussed as all the focus is on the guys we are doing the officials and home visits. It is like Epperson, not a lot of talk about him.

I Like each and every one of our existing players a lot. So definitely not a grass is greener mentality at all. People have often accused me of being too supportive of JJJ for example, which is why I have not posted a JJJ is ready for a break out season thread.

I just want to see MU get the best possible players we can . I love MU.

Recruiting is a very competitive thing . I have been on the record as saying that Wojo is a very good recruiter. I like that about him a lot. His coaching is a different matter ,primarily because I agree with your point about cohesion., I don't think Wojo has the head coaching experience  to foster that cohesion.  I am hoping it comes with time.

However in the meantime, he keeps identifying good prospects and for the most part these are all reportedly good level headed kids . So I figure they can persevere through Wojos growing pains.

Its hard to believe that you and others believe Wojo has coaching issues.  The first year he had a miserable team and last year he was led by a freshman who only
had one interest and that was getting to the pros.  Henry was given free reign last year to do what he wanted, and he did.  If there was upper class players that were better than him, he might still be in college where he belongs.   This year will be the first year where he has experienced college players, I expect better results.

better than him it would not have been that way.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am not saying Stockard is above Tillman etc . I think all our prospects bring different skill sets to the table.  Recruiting is very competitive, So If any of the 6 say yes I am delighted. Ideally we want one more big and one 3. I am looking at Nwora as a 3 with a great shot and Cain as a slashing 3. Tillman super soft hands great offensive threat inside, French a man amongst boys with length and real basketball pedigree. Epperson is a rim protecting 5 who could possibly even redshirt which would be a big benefit. As I mentioned Stockard has incredible agility for guy his size. That is why I am so intrigued, that kind of agility and footwork simply cannot be taught. God Given.

 I have already reconciled the fact that French is highly sought after and if we can't close on him we may have to deal with him on one of several big East teams.  However, I would prefer not to see Stockard go to Xavier or DePaul especially after we were one of the early guys after him.

Makes sense and I tend to agree. I would be stoked with any combination of two out of these six. Nwora and Tillman is my dream scenario but would still be ecstatic with Stockard and Cain.

I disagree about not wanting other BEast programs to get the players we don't. I don't want to win in the Big East because the competition isn't as good as it could be. I want the BEast to be the most dominate conference in basketball and still have Marquette win.

[GGGG]

This we've been trying to play ACC style players in the Big East. I wonder how much input a coach has in Todds strategy, could be Wojo made some tweeks he shouldn't have

I am with you on this.  I think Wojo has figured something out about the BE.  You just look at guys like French and Stockard and there seems to be a level of physicality that hasn't existed in his first couple years.

I think Todd Smith is very good.  I think there are a lot of good S&C coaches out there.  One of the reasons for UW's improvement was the hiring of Erik Helland away from the Chicago Bulls as their S&C coach.  It isn't a coincidence that he joined the very year they made their first final four. 

[naginiF]

  You've only known that this kid even exists for what? a day? and now he's a top priority. 

I generally scoff at the "this shiny new kid is a must get", "Wojo can't recruit", and "because we didn't get ______ we are a mid major" lines of thinking because they seem to be rooted in either a) getting WAY too personally attached to the decision of a kid or b) ignoring the complexities of the recruiting environment.  The latter of which I, and few here, don't fully understand because we are not in that world.

In order to help me understand that complexity here's my 'recruiting 101' question:  for the next two years (and i know these ratios can change) we have an 8(ish):2 offer to scholarship ratio.........how big is the pool of kids that the coaching staff has to manage from aware of/evaluating, to ongoing relationship/serious consideration, to targeting, to offer?  And, how many coaches/youth athletic league personnel do they need to maintain a relationship with?

[Herman Cain]

Makes sense and I tend to agree. I would be stoked with any combination of two out of these six. Nwora and Tillman is my dream scenario but would still be ecstatic with Stockard and Cain.

I disagree about not wanting other BEast programs to get the players we don't. I don't want to win in the Big East because the competition isn't as good as it could be. I want the BEast to be the most dominate conference in basketball and still have Marquette win.

I think we need to start getting pumped for the possibility of Cain. We are getting a nice mulligan here in that we lost out on Terrence Lewis but have a very similar prospect in Cain.

[GGGG]

I generally scoff at the "this shiny new kid is a must get", "Wojo can't recruit", and "because we didn't get ______ we are a mid major" lines of thinking because they seem to be rooted in either a) getting WAY too personally attached to the decision of a kid or b) ignoring the complexities of the recruiting environment.  The latter of which I, and few here, don't fully understand because we are not in that world.

In order to help me understand that complexity here's my 'recruiting 101' question:  for the next two years (and i know these ratios can change) we have an 8(ish):2 offer to scholarship ratio.........how big is the pool of kids that the coaching staff has to manage from aware of/evaluating, to ongoing relationship/serious consideration, to targeting, to offer?  And, how many coaches/youth athletic league personnel do they need to maintain a relationship with?

I tend to look at is as...what qualities do we need on the basketball court?  And I have said before, it seems like we have lacked some physicality under Wojo's first two years.  So I look at who we are recruiting...Eke, John, Tillman, French, Stockard...they seem like they are the type of physical players that MU has lacked.

Whether or not any of these guys are better than the others, that's for the coaches to decide.  But I like this class we are bringing in so far.

[jsglow]

I am with you on this.  I think Wojo has figured something out about the BE.  You just look at guys like French and Stockard and there seems to be a level of physicality that hasn't existed in his first couple years.

I think Todd Smith is very good.  I think there are a lot of good S&C coaches out there.  One of the reasons for UW's improvement was the hiring of Erik Helland away from the Chicago Bulls as their S&C coach.  It isn't a coincidence that he joined the very year they made their first final four.

Part of that might have been the fact that Wojo first had to find some guys that could actually play basketball. Two years ago was so bleak I've blocked it out of my mind.

[Dawson Rental]

Murray, did ya down yo smart pills dis mornin'? First coherent paragraph ya put together in years, hey?

Thanks Doc.  Nice to have a fan.

[Dawson Rental]

Makes sense and I tend to agree. I would be stoked with any combination of two out of these six. Nwora and Tillman is my dream scenario but would still be ecstatic with Stockard and Cain.

I disagree about not wanting other BEast programs to get the players we don't. I don't want to win in the Big East because the competition isn't as good as it could be. I want the BEast to be the most dominate conference in basketball and still have Marquette win.

I Agree.  Playing better competition gives a program a leg up in recruiting.  And you don't have to win yur conference to win the NCAA tournament.  But you are better prepared for the NCAA tournament if you went through a tough conference season.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think we need to start getting pumped for the possibility of Cain. We are getting a nice mulligan here in that we lost out on Terrence Lewis but have a very similar prospect in Cain.

Oh I'm very excited about Cain. Of the four visitors, he's second best on my wish list. I like Nwora a little more but not by much.

[Herman Cain]

I generally scoff at the "this shiny new kid is a must get", "Wojo can't recruit", and "because we didn't get ______ we are a mid major" lines of thinking because they seem to be rooted in either a) getting WAY too personally attached to the decision of a kid or b) ignoring the complexities of the recruiting environment.  The latter of which I, and few here, don't fully understand because we are not in that world.

In order to help me understand that complexity here's my 'recruiting 101' question:  for the next two years (and i know these ratios can change) we have an 8(ish):2 offer to scholarship ratio.........how big is the pool of kids that the coaching staff has to manage from aware of/evaluating, to ongoing relationship/serious consideration, to targeting, to offer?  And, how many coaches/youth athletic league personnel do they need to maintain a relationship with?

Here is my thumbnail take on your question.

Start out at a very high level early on. The schools get names of as many as 300 to 500 kids. Club Coach and High School coach provide this pipe line by providing names of  their best kids for the schools   to look at camps etc . There are lots and lots of clubs and high school so the numbers add up.  Some coaches stick to certain areas others recruit nationally. Izzo for example likes kids within a certain radius of MSU, he rarely goes beyond that. Fishes in the same ponds over and over. AAU is an efficient method for these coaches as they can see lots of kids on one trip. Foreign prospects are also a big factor for certain schools.

Filter out to about a  100 125 or so that they actually watch in the early days of a recruiting class and are blinking on the Radar Screen so to speak.  Worth noting  they are looking at multiple years of prospects. So while they will spend the most time on the current year, they will be sure to at least get some eye contact on the out years.  These coaches have incredible memories for kids.

40 50 or Identified as worth pursuing based on needs. Prioritize investment investment in time on these. Unofficial visits are a great indicator of a kids interest , although not all kids can afford those. Want to focus on the kids that have a potentially sincere interest. Also more than just playing ability comes in to play, coachability character etc are important too.

Try to top  15-25 list  where there is a real chance to close. Put those in priority order and probability order etc. This point is a real juggling act. Substantial time commitment involved on candidates at this point.

Work the orders and try to get officials or home visits with key prospects. Then start closing.

The order of magnitude of numbers will vary from school to school. Obviously the Blue Bloods have a smaller initial filter because they can.

Remember as all of this evaluation and filtering is going on from the schools perspective, the prospects themselves are also going through their own version of this.

Many of the prospects have dream schools and as those become unattainable through lack of interest or spots filled, the prospects move on. I thought the Matt Ryan recruitment a couple years ago was an interesting example. The kid had his heart set on going to UNC Duke Kentucky .  Those coaches were looking at him very closely and liked him a lot and indicated offers would be coming .  Notre Dame actually offered to get first in line. Then the kid had surgery on both hips and was told by the Blue Bloods they needed to see how he recovered before they offered. So the kid opened his recruitment up to a wider group of schools and was considering Creighton and MU among others.  The kid held out as long as he could for the Blue Bloods but then eventually took the Notre Dame deal. I heard first hand from the kid that the reason he took Notre Dame was he did not want to wait any more for the others and in the meantime risk seeing the Notre Dame deal evaporate and go to someone else.  He had a good first season last year so it worked out for him.

[GGGG]

Does Marquette, or other D1 teams, purchase the info of high school scouting services?  I know this is done at the lower levels because they simply don't have the budget, but I don't know if many D1 programs use them.

[Jay Bee]

Does Marquette, or other D1 teams, purchase the info of high school scouting services?  I know this is done at the lower levels because they simply don't have the budget, but I don't know if many D1 programs use them.

Yes, multiple

[GGGG]

OK thanks JB.  That's what I figured. 

[Herman Cain]

Does Marquette, or other D1 teams, purchase the info of high school scouting services?  I know this is done at the lower levels because they simply don't have the budget, but I don't know if many D1 programs use them.

In the very old days before internet, cable tv, cell phone,  fax and no AAU etc the  coaches would rely on informal networks of guys who would provide leads. You could literally pick up the phone and call a Big Ten level head coach in his office and you could talk to him about prospect x or prospect Y. Literally guys that would be on MU Scoop today would have these discussions and the coaches would actually listen and take notes. It was kind of a fun thing.

[Newsdreams]

We have a football team?

Undefeated since '61!

[vogue65]

I am with you on this.  I think Wojo has figured something out about the BE.  You just look at guys like French and Stockard and there seems to be a level of physicality that hasn't existed in his first couple years.

I think Todd Smith is very good.  I think there are a lot of good S&C coaches out there.  One of the reasons for UW's improvement was the hiring of Erik Helland away from the Chicago Bulls as their S&C coach.  It isn't a coincidence that he joined the very year they made their first final four.

What do we mean by physicality?  Are we talking about strength or speed?  Last year when I spoke with Todd Smith I heard a lot about speed, quickness, and not much about building bulk or strength except in how it relates to speed. 

My local gym is now moving away from bulk and mass and toward explosive speed for all sports, I think it is a national movement.  Your thoughts?

[brandx]

Not trying to make fun of you, but I read this and hear Ted Cruz talking about strength training and it amuses me.  Keep pounding and putting the orange sphere into the hoops.

Hey, it was from his "first hand observations". None of us are privy to Todd's daily workouts in NY.

[MuMark]

I am not saying Stockard is above Tillman etc . I think all our prospects bring different skill sets to the table.  Recruiting is very competitive, So If any of the 6 say yes I am delighted. Ideally we want one more big and one 3. I am looking at Nwora as a 3 with a great shot and Cain as a slashing 3. Tillman super soft hands great offensive threat inside, French a man amongst boys with length and real basketball pedigree. Epperson is a rim protecting 5 who could possibly even redshirt which would be a big benefit. As I mentioned Stockard has incredible agility for guy his size. That is why I am so intrigued, that kind of agility and footwork simply cannot be taught. God Given.

I have already reconciled the fact that French is highly sought after and if we can't close on him we may have to deal with him on one of several big East teams.  However, I would prefer not to see Stockard go to Xavier or DePaul especially after we were one of the early guys after him.

No we won't have to deal with French on another Big East team
Adam Finkelstein ‏@AdamFinkelstein  4h4 hours ago
Adam Finkelstein Retweeted Has ™
.@CATornados & @PSACardinals PF Hasahn French has cut his list to UNLV, St Louis, Marquette, UMass, Minnesota & VCU.

[GGGG]

What do we mean by physicality?  Are we talking about strength or speed?  Last year when I spoke with Todd Smith I heard a lot about speed, quickness, and not much about building bulk or strength except in how it relates to speed. 

My local gym is now moving away from bulk and mass and toward explosive speed for all sports, I think it is a national movement.  Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that the BE is a physical basketball league, and I am talking about strength without sacrificing speed. 

[Herman Cain]

Hey, it was from his "first hand observations". None of us are privy to Todd's daily workouts in NY.

get on plane fly out to mitchell field and go to MU and spend some time there. Amazing how much you can learn.

[avid1010]

Yes, multiple

do they utilize the information...or is it a way to get $$$ in the right people's hands?

[jsglow]

get on plane fly out to mitchell field and go to MU and spend some time there. Amazing how much you can learn.

Chick and I are never on campus for anything.  I wonder why I don't know anything?   

[muwarrior69]

Undefeated since '61!

So that is why were going after Stockard; to keep the string going.

[muwarrior69]

What do we mean by physicality?  Are we talking about strength or speed?  Last year when I spoke with Todd Smith I heard a lot about speed, quickness, and not much about building bulk or strength except in how it relates to speed. 

My local gym is now moving away from bulk and mass and toward explosive speed for all sports, I think it is a national movement.  Your thoughts?

I would settle for explosive rebounding.

[Jay Bee]

do they utilize the information...or is it a way to get $$$ in the right people's hands?

Utilize.  And I'm NOT speaking about Marquette here, but many coaches talk to and seek the heads up on potential recruits from various people.

[MU82]

No we won't have to deal with French on another Big East team
Adam Finkelstein ‏@AdamFinkelstein  4h4 hours ago
Adam Finkelstein Retweeted Has ™
.@CATornados & @PSACardinals PF Hasahn French has cut his list to UNLV, St Louis, Marquette, UMass, Minnesota & VCU.

Facts is fun!

[brandx]

I think Todd Smith is very good.  I think there are a lot of good S&C coaches out there.  One of the reasons for UW's improvement was the hiring of Erik Helland away from the Chicago Bulls as their S&C coach.  It isn't a coincidence that he joined the very year they made their first final four.

There are good S&C coaches everywhere.

As far as making the Final 4, I'd say Bo, Kaminsky, Dekker, and Co. were much more responsible. BTW, they managed to make a Final Four, Elite 8, and a couple Sweet 16s in the twelve years before Helland was hired.

[Dawson Rental]

In the very old days before internet, cable tv, cell phone,  fax and no AAU etc the  coaches would rely on informal networks of guys who would provide leads. You could literally pick up the phone and call a Big Ten level head coach in his office and you could talk to him about prospect x or prospect Y. Literally guys that would be on MU Scoop today would have these discussions and the coaches would actually listen and take notes. It was kind of a fun thing.

An interesting bit of history.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

There are good S&C coaches everywhere.

As far as making the Final 4, I'd say Bo, Kaminsky, Dekker, and Co. were much more responsible. BTW, they managed to make a Final Four, Elite 8, and a couple Sweet 16s in the twelve years before Helland was hired.

I remember reading an article where the players actually talked about Helland helping take them to the next level.  I'll see if I can find it on the interwebs and provide a link.

[GGGG]

There are good S&C coaches everywhere.

As far as making the Final 4, I'd say Bo, Kaminsky, Dekker, and Co. were much more responsible. BTW, they managed to make a Final Four, Elite 8, and a couple Sweet 16s in the twelve years before Helland was hired.

I will post an article from the MJS that spoke specifically to how UW needed to get stronger after getting pushed around by Ole Miss in the NCAAs and that ushered in Helland.

Frank making the leap he did the very next year was not a coincidence.

[ecompt]

We all know what a fine job UW does with its "conditioning" of redshirt freshman football players. By the end of their sit-out year they're all 320 pounds.

[Stretchdeltsig]

And they all grow 1-2" taller according to their roster.

[brandx]

In the very old days before internet, cable tv, cell phone,  fax and no AAU etc the  coaches would rely on informal networks of guys who would provide leads. You could literally pick up the phone and call a Big Ten level head coach in his office and you could talk to him about prospect x or prospect Y. Literally guys that would be on MU Scoop today would have these discussions and the coaches would actually listen and take notes. It was kind of a fun thing.

You must be talking back in the 50's and 60's.

In the 70s and 80s - before the interent - there were quite a few recruiting services around.

Van Coleman is one who comes to mind - I'm sure I still have his recruiting newsletters up in the attic somewhere. But there were also many others.

And Street & Smith Magazine back in the 80s was used in the old days as well as a recruiting tool. Still have a lot of those as well, if anyone is interested in buying.

[Herman Cain]

You must be talking back in the 50's and 60's.

In the 70s and 80s - before the interent - there were quite a few recruiting services around.

Van Coleman is one who comes to mind - I'm sure I still have his recruiting newsletters up in the attic somewhere. But there were also many others.

And Street & Smith Magazine back in the 80s was used in the old days as well as a recruiting tool. Still have a lot of those as well, if anyone is interested in buying.

I am talking mostly 60s 70s a little in to the 80s. The networks ( very loosely defined) were supplements to High School coaches and Services, Street and Smith etc  as you point out.

The quality of recruits in the old days had lots of variable. Big hits and spectacular flops. Hidden gems were possible to be found , or simply some coaches had no idea what was going on two states over,which is why some coaches were open minded to these sources. They needed them to offset some truly horrible dogs that some in state high school coach foisted on them simply because the guy was tall. Coaches were also obsessed with finding some sharp shooting kid who practiced in his family barn or hearing about a playground star.

A poster on this site( i forgot who) relayed a story about finding out that Bernard Toone was interested in MU  and helping him and his mother move in our direction.

Todays system is very good at flushing out and identifying talent. It makes it harder for the non powerhouse programs to sign up a great player who is flying under the radar which are fewer and far between.

Also the whole concept of being a representative of the university athletic interest makes it impossible for boosters to get involved with recruiting and scouting like they did in the by gone days.

[nyg]

I am talking mostly 60s 70s a little in to the 80s. The networks ( very loosely defined) were supplements to High School coaches and Services, Street and Smith etc  as you point out.

The quality of recruits in the old days had lots of variable. Big hits and spectacular flops. Hidden gems were possible to be found , or simply some coaches had no idea what was going on two states over,which is why some coaches were open minded to these sources. They needed them to offset some truly horrible dogs that some in state high school coach foisted on them simply because the guy was tall. Coaches were also obsessed with finding some sharp shooting kid who practiced in his family barn or hearing about a playground star.

A poster on this site( i forgot who) relayed a story about finding out that Bernard Toone was interested in MU  and helping him and his mother move in our direction.

Todays system is very good at flushing out and identifying talent. It makes it harder for the non powerhouse programs to sign up a great player who is flying under the radar which are fewer and far between.

Also the whole concept of being a representative of the university athletic interest makes it impossible for boosters to get involved with recruiting and scouting like they did in the by gone days.

Street and Smith was fine, but the "Bible" of recruiting from the mid 1970s to mid 1980's was Bob Gibbons' All Star Reports.  Those interested can easily wiki it and read about background of Gibbons and his reports. 

[Nukem2]

Street and Smith was fine, but the "Bible" of recruiting from the mid 1970s to mid 1980's was Bob Gibbons' All Star Reports.  Those interested can easily wiki it and read about background of Gibbons and his reports.

Gibbons was more in the 80s and 90s.  A good one in the 70s was Cats Pause, which was/is a KY rag.

[brandx]

Street and Smith was fine, but the "Bible" of recruiting from the mid 1970s to mid 1980's was Bob Gibbons' All Star Reports.  Those interested can easily wiki it and read about background of Gibbons and his reports.

Absolutely. His was the name I couldn't remember. I'd rate him a cut above Coleman.

[Logi4three]

Bazz to George Washington?

[rocket surgeon]

  Yous guyses think Levi is a potential project?  Well, get this dude proficient with a jump rope and a few free weights, and put him in the lane-whoooo doggies!!  We gots ourselves not only that wall that mr. T is talkin about, but 3 aircraft carriers in one, eyna'l?  Say hello to mr. Brave Williams-



http://www.maxpreps.com/news/N8moENxix0G3tlQCjJuVvg/at-7-foot-1-and-400-pounds,-high-school-football-player-brave-williams-is-larger-than-life.htm

[MUDPT]

I will post an article from the MJS that spoke specifically to how UW needed to get stronger after getting pushed around by Ole Miss in the NCAAs and that ushered in Helland.

Frank making the leap he did the very next year was not a coincidence.

Don't know any details but Helland may have been buzz-cut by the Jen Swanson regime with the Bulls. I have heard a lot of positive about him. Their hockey strength coach is the best of them supposedly and those results haven't translated to the ice.