2017 US News Ranking

[mu-rara]

Heisy, for da record, dude, it was 1881, ai na?

Now I get it.  Its Heisy.

[forgetful]

Getting smaller as part of a longer term plan does not have to mean tuition going way up.  In fact there are a lot of smaller colleges that keep tuition down in the mid 20's before scholarships.  If a student reduction is sudden, of course it is harder to manage fixed assets/costs and severance packages, etc in the short term.  If it is planned via attraction and reducing fixed costs, dorms, etc, it does not have to mean tuition going way up. 

I see a trend about to take place that will effect all but the more elite schools.  A mass exodus, no.  But at the margins in the short term and deeper into the margins in the future.  I do see online and cheaper education alternatives gaining much sooner than later.  That is the business plan of places like coursera.org, edx, etc.  They will be offering degrees soon. 

Like it or not, we will be competing with these type of schools.  Will it be the core MU student who has parents more than willing to pay out for an MU education and want and are willing to pay for the 4 year on campus degree, no.  Paying 200K for a mid-tier school will look a lot less like a value proposition in the future, especially if one is taking loans out to do it, or working and trying to go to class, etc. 

New alternatives that are really cheap and online may not be MU's primary competition, but it is wrong to think this will not impact MU and schools like MU.  I think it is wrong to think these changes won't effect MU.  A kid that wants to go to law school and study humanities maybe best served with a nearly free degree if he/she can do well on the LSAT and complete the degree in 3 years for next to nothing.

That's my view and I believe it to be right.  I suspected most would disagree.

I'd be planning for fewer students OR having to admit more and more just to keep the numbers up which is only going to pull MU reputation down and possibly face a downward spiral of having to keep admitting more and more students... OR get $ for scholarships to compete.   Smaller and having scholarship money is the key, of course.   

Choices have to be made between buildings and scholarship money and size.  MU seems to be trying to stay the same size by admitting more and more students and competing with nice buildings.

I don't think you understand the economics and business of a University very well based on your comments in this thread. 

I'll put it simply.  Expect MU, if possible, to increase enrollment in the near future.  Honestly, that is about the only way they can continue to be a major University moving forward.

[StillAWarrior]

Fair enough

My point is their os a lot of discounting going on from the list price at a lot of schools.   If MU has a problem, it's tuition is too high.  The need a bigger endowment so they can offer breaks to those that need it to make the yield go up (which makes their acceptance rate go down).  That will improve the ranking.

Harvard with a $33 billion endowment is the extreme cases that proves the rule.

Funny that you mention $33 billion, because when I googled that information yesterday, I saw a figures of $36.4 and $37.6.  I'm not sure what the current value is, but they probably make rounding errors that exceed Marquette's total endowment.  Incidentally, this is the reason that the "nobody pays" statement is actually believable (and may actually happen at some point) -- they could offer full tuition scholarships to every undergraduate and it would cost a fraction of a percent of their endowment.  And after all these comments about Harvard, I want to reiterate that I am genuinely impressed by how generous their financial aid is -- my comments have not been intended to be critical of Harvard.

[GGGG]

I don't think you understand the economics and business of a University very well based on your comments in this thread. 

I'll put it simply.  Expect MU, if possible, to increase enrollment in the near future.  Honestly, that is about the only way they can continue to be a major University moving forward.

Agreed.  And I am certainly not discounting the new educational alternatives.  But really how much do you plan for something like that?  If its not going to impact your environment in the next five to seven years, it's too far out in the future to radically change how you operate.

I tend to agree that the best way Marquette can impact its future is to increase its endowment.

[Tugg Speedman]

Funny that you mention $33 billion, because when I googled that information yesterday, I saw a figures of $36.4 and $37.6.  I'm not sure what the current value is, but they probably make rounding errors that exceed Marquette's total endowment.  Incidentally, this is the reason that the "nobody pays" statement is actually believable (and may actually happen at some point) -- they could offer full tuition scholarships to every undergraduate and it would cost a fraction of a percent of their endowment.  And after all these comments about Harvard, I want to reiterate that I am genuinely impressed by how generous their financial aid is -- my comments have not been intended to be critical of Harvard.

I've started threads of this before ... I think they are slowly moving to no tuition.  The other high endowment schools will follow.  The next tier of "large endowment schools will have to follow with a drastic cut in tuition.

Let me sum this up simply ... If MU is falling in the rankings it means tuition is too high.  Want to fix the acceptance rate, yield, USNWR Ranking and the rest, cut the tuition.

To do that need a bigger tuition.

[Disco Hippie]

It seems like the school has a model that targets an enrollment of 2,000 or so each year. My view is to increase the number of applicants significantly.  When kids get their admissions decisions it will help our cause when there are several kids from a high school who don't get it to the one who does get it in. Makes the one who got in value the acceptance more. Human nature.  The snob appeal factor can not be understated in college admissions and acceptance. We all know MU is a great school but I contend the school has to be much more intelligent about how it markets itself.

I could not agree more but they went in the polar opposite direction.  Applications were down 40% from prior year which is huge but that was by design.  They hired consultants with a proven track record in extremely targeted marketing only going after students who were very interested in MU in the first place.  Give them credit....it worked and the freshman class was up 200 students from prior year so they met the enrollment goal but the downside of that is a 77% acceptance rate which is ridiculous.   Obviously 2100 Freshman is obviously way better than 1850 but If they have to admit 77% to get there something is way off.  Personally I'd rather they shrink slightly enroll 1700 with an acceptance rate closer to 50% or high 40's.  3 years ago our acceptance rate was in the high 50's.  WTF?  I don't care if standardized test scores graduation rates, and all these other metrics keep going higher.  As long as MU admits 7.7 out of 10 who apply they're never going to be taken seriously.  Why is it only us coasties care about these things???  How could everyone else not?  Prestige shouldn't have boundaries.

[GGGG]

So Marquette attracts a larger freshman class, that is measurably better, and did so in a more efficient manner...

AND THAT'S A PROBLEM???

See why acceptance rate is a STUPID metric to determine the quality of a school?  Kudos to the school for figuring out what's important and not buying into the ridiculousness. 

[Disco Hippie]

So Marquette attracts a larger freshman class, that is measurably better, and did so in a more efficient manner...

AND THAT'S A PROBLEM???

See why acceptance rate is a STUPID metric to determine the quality of a school?  Kudos to the school for figuring out what's important and not buying into the ridiculousness.

YES IT IS

I agree it's all superficial and ridiculous and is not a reflection of the quality of the institution, but I still care.  When will MU be in a position where there is no doubt they will fill the class and not have to cross their fingers and swipe their foreheads phew over the fact that 200 more students enrolled this year so they're not running a deficit? I get they're very tuition dependent compared to $1B+ endowed schools, but cast a wider net!  Instead they're doubling down on a very small segment.  How can MU go from a school where 80% of students grew up within 100 miles of the place to a school where 60% of it's students come from 500 miles or more.  They need to expand their geographic footprint big time.

[GGGG]

YES IT IS

I agree it's all superficial and ridiculous and is not a reflection of the quality of the institution, but I still care.  When will MU be in a position where there is no doubt they will fill the class and not have to cross their fingers and swipe their foreheads phew over the fact that 200 more students enrolled this year so they're not running a deficit? I get they're very tuition dependent compared to $1B+ endowed schools, but cast a wider net!  Instead they're doubling down on a very small segment.  How can MU go from a school where 80% of students grew up within 100 miles of the place to a school where 60% of it's students come from 500 miles or more.  They need to expand their geographic footprint big time.

By buying into superficiality?

NOPE!!! 

[forgetful]

YES IT IS

I agree it's all superficial and ridiculous and is not a reflection of the quality of the institution, but I still care.  When will MU be in a position where there is no doubt they will fill the class and not have to cross their fingers and swipe their foreheads phew over the fact that 200 more students enrolled this year so they're not running a deficit? I get they're very tuition dependent compared to $1B+ endowed schools, but cast a wider net!  Instead they're doubling down on a very small segment.  How can MU go from a school where 80% of students grew up within 100 miles of the place to a school where 60% of it's students come from 500 miles or more.  They need to expand their geographic footprint big time.

Newsflash for you, $1B+ endowment schools are equally tuition dependent and sometimes more so.  Only when you start getting in the range of $10B+ endowments is it much different (and even then it depends on total enrollment).

Universities operate essentially a zero sum game.  To remain competitive they are essentially spending all revenue they bring in to improve and still having to rely heavily on endowment earnings to just get by.

Look at a school like TCU at #82.  Tuition is $42,670; with a total cost of enrollment of ~$55k.  They have an endowment of $1.5B.  They have annual budget shortfalls and significant budget cuts each year because they can't increase tuition fast enough to offset rising costs. 

Triple the endowment of MU, higher tuition and still barely scraping by. 

[Herman Cain]

I could not agree more but they went in the polar opposite direction.  Applications were down 40% from prior year which is huge but that was by design.  They hired consultants with a proven track record in extremely targeted marketing only going after students who were very interested in MU in the first place.  Give them credit....it worked and the freshman class was up 200 students from prior year so they met the enrollment goal but the downside of that is a 77% acceptance rate which is ridiculous.   Obviously 2100 Freshman is obviously way better than 1850 but If they have to admit 77% to get there something is way off.  Personally I'd rather they shrink slightly enroll 1700 with an acceptance rate closer to 50% or high 40's.  3 years ago our acceptance rate was in the high 50's.  WTF?  I don't care if standardized test scores graduation rates, and all these other metrics keep going higher.  As long as MU admits 7.7 out of 10 who apply they're never going to be taken seriously.  Why is it only us coasties care about these things???  How could everyone else not?  Prestige shouldn't have boundaries.

I think the targeted marketing is exactly the opposite of what they need to do. Broad and Wide and as many applicants as possible. 

Look at Boston College for example , why are they any different than us? Midsize Jesuit School in major city . Yes they are in Chestnut Hill but that appeals more to parents than kids.  The one thing they do is have a lot of kids they reject. A lot of they kids they reject apply there as their safety school .  So BC gets the acceptance percentage low and by virtue of that gets more street cred with guidance counselors who are also part of the rating, and they get more money from alums who want to see the school stay at the top of the ratings. It is an insane cycle but it is the game that needs to be played.

The net result of all of this is once we start falling it becomes a death spiral rating wise.

And again, I beg the admissions department, please show at the great public schools. It can only help the cause. Show up in Scarsdale, Edgemont,  Garden City,Great Neck., New Canaan , Darien , Etc It can only help your cause.  While your in the neighborhood of those you can stop at Hackley, Brunswick, Friends etc which are all short stops from your traditional Catholic schools.

Marquette Administration is way too parochial. Small time thinking makes you a small time school in the eyes of the people that are going to put the money up.

We have a great story to tell the world , so get off your butt work harder and start telling it.  The competitive world is not an 8 to 4:30 place .

Lovell needs to stop worrying about being PC and get out and work hard for the betterment of Marquette.

We also need better board members. Too many local stuffed shirts who are just doing it for prestige and padding their resumes .

[forgetful]

I think the targeted marketing is exactly the opposite of what they need to do. Broad and Wide and as many applicants as possible. 

Look at Boston College for example , why are they any different than us? Midsize Jesuit School in major city . Yes they are in Chestnut Hill but that appeals more to parents than kids.  The one thing they do is have a lot of kids they reject. A lot of they kids they reject apply there as their safety school .  So BC gets the acceptance percentage low and by virtue of that gets more street cred with guidance counselors who are also part of the rating, and they get more money from alums who want to see the school stay at the top of the ratings. It is an insane cycle but it is the game that needs to be played.

The net result of all of this is once we start falling it becomes a death spiral rating wise.

And again, I beg the admissions department, please show at the great public schools. It can only help the cause. Show up in Scarsdale, Edgemont,  Garden City,Great Neck., New Canaan , Darien , Etc It can only help your cause.  While your in the neighborhood of those you can stop at Hackley, Brunswick, Friends etc which are all short stops from your traditional Catholic schools.

Marquette Administration is way too parochial. Small time thinking makes you a small time school in the eyes of the people that are going to put the money up.

We have a great story to tell the world , so get off your butt work harder and start telling it.  The competitive world is not an 8 to 4:30 place .

Lovell needs to stop worrying about being PC and get out and work hard for the betterment of Marquette.

We also need better board members. Too many local stuffed shirts who are just doing it for prestige and padding their resumes .

Before you go too far off the rails on the whole not marketing to counselors well enough at least realize that one of the strongest aspects of MUs ranking is their National High School Counselors ranking at 67.  So they are doing above expectations on that aspect that you are so concerned about.