Who would win a Tournament of MU Greats?

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Here in the dog days of summer, there isn't much basketball to discuss, and Midnight Madness is still a month and a half away.

To kill the time, I've assembled three rosters of MUBB greats, based on their high school or place of birth. If those teams could play each other, despite being from different eras, which team of MU greats would prevail in a round robin tournament: MUBB Chicagoland, MUBB Wisconsin, or MUBB Everywhere Else?*

* = Feel free to tell me my player selections are lousy. I simply tried to get the best 11 or 12 players available from each region, looking at MU's All-Americans, Championship teams, and Career Stat Leaders. I attempted to put together a balanced roster positionally, but this was not always possible. Full disclosure, I'm a 2006 MU Grad, so there may be some recency bias.


MUBB Chicagoland

Starters

PG: Doc Rivers (Maywood)
SG: Dwyane Wade (Robbins)
SF: Jerel McNeal (Country Club Hills)
PF: Bo Ellis (Chicago)
C: Jerome Whitehead (Waukegan)

Reserves

PG: Lloyd Walton (Chicago)
PG: William Gates (Chicago)
G: Bob Lackey (Evanston)
G: Amal McKaskill (Maywood)
G: Cordell Henry (Chicago)
G: Brian Wardle (Clarendon Hills)
G: Joe Chapman (Sauk Village)

MUBB Chicago was the hardest roster to construct. It was also the smallest team. While the other two teams had a pretty even positional distribution, Chicagoland sends MU guards, guards, and more guards.

This team would be quick, score a lot of points, and be defensively stingy. However, they may struggle with turnovers, and if shots weren't falling, their lack of height could be a problem.


MUBB Wisconsin

Starters
PG: Travis Diener (Fond du Lac)
SG: Wes Matthews (Madison)
SF: Steve Novak (Brown Deer)
PF: Jim Chones (Racine)
C: Jim McIlvaine (Racine)

Reserves
PG: Vander Blue (Madison)
SG: Tony Smith (Wauwatosa)
SF: Don Kojis (Milwaukee)
PF: Scott Merritt (Wauwatosa)
PF/C: Damon Key (Milwaukee)
C: Henry Ellenson (Rice Lake)
C: Terry Rand (Green Bay)

Where MUBB Chicagoland lacked height, MUBB Wisconsin has it in spades. 5 or 6 different players could play Center. However, MUBB Wisconsin would also have several credible perimeter threats in Diener, Novak, Matthews, and Smith.

MUBB Everywhere Else

Starters
PG: George Thompson (New York)
SG: Butch Lee (New York)
SF: Jimmy Butler (Texas)
PF: Maurice Lucas (Pennsylvania)
C: Jae Crowder (Georgia)

Reserves
PG: Dominic James (Indiana)
PG: Dean Meminger (New York)
SG: Darius Johnson-Odom (North Carolina)
SG: Earl Tatum (New York)
SF: Roney Eford (New York)
SF: Lazar Hayward (New York)
PF/C: Bernard Toone (New York)

Possibly the most well-balanced team. MUBB Everywhere Else boasts depth at every position. Butler and Lucas would be defensive pit bulls, and there is plenty of explosive offensive firepower coming off the bench with Johnson-Odom and James.

[warriorchick]

So who gets the Bye game?

[wadesworld]

Where's it played and what channel is it broadcast on?  Who's wearing the baby blues?

[tower912]

Who is coaching which team?    Al>Buzz>Hank>Majerus>Crean>Deane>Dukiet.     Wojo still grades out as Inc.

[PBRme]

I'd start Toone at center over Crowder

[MuMark]

Lucas would be the center on that team

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Who is coaching which team?    Al>Buzz>Hank>Majerus>Crean>Deane>Dukiet.     Wojo still grades out as Inc.

That begs the question, is this based on MU career or total career? Because Majerus would be #2 if it was whole career and close to last if it was just MU career.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Who is coaching which team?    Al>Buzz>Hank>Majerus>Crean>Deane>Dukiet.     Wojo still grades out as Inc.

Forgot KO, who id probably put right behind Al.

[Dawson Rental]

Jim McIlvaine starting at center for Wisconsin Warriors?  No.
Jim Chones at center, Henry Ellenson at PF with Damon Key backing them both up.  Mac fourth in the rotation.

George Thompson a PG?  Really?  I wasn't around then, but this is the first time I've heard him called that.  Dean Meminger is the everywhere else PG, better yet the just plain everywhere PG.

MUBB Chicagoland

Starters

PG: Doc Rivers (Maywood)
SG: Dwyane Wade (Robbins)
SF: Jerel McNeal (Country Club Hills)
PF: Bo Ellis (Chicago)
C: Jerome Whitehead (Waukegan)

Reserves

PG: Lloyd Walton (Chicago)
PG: William Gates (Chicago)
G: Bob Lackey (Evanston)
G: Amal McKaskill (Maywood)
G: Cordell Henry (Chicago)
G: Brian Wardle (Clarendon Hills)
G: Joe Chapman (Sauk Village)

MUBB Chicago was the hardest roster to construct. It was also the smallest team. While the other two teams had a pretty even positional distribution, Chicagoland sends MU guards, guards, and more guards.

Just call Chicagoland what it is: a three guard lineup, or if your stuck on traditional positions start Lackey (not a guard) or Wardle (also not really a guard) at SF, and put Jerel in a backup role.

Amal McCaskill was a center, not a guard, and despite his size, William Gates ended up playing SF because O'Neill liked his defensive skills there and he really didn't have PG skills.

[Dawson Rental]

I'd start Toone at center over Crowder

Lucas would be the center on that team

And I think that I'd take David Boone over Toone at PF.

[Marcus92]

I voted Chicago, but could have easily went with Everywhere Else. The idea of All Americans like Lloyd Walton and Dean Meminger coming off the bench is insane. Either would be an unbelievably talented roster.

[Dawson Rental]

I went with Wisconsin.  they have the best inside talent, and Novak and Diener would keep teams from packing it in to stop Chones, Ellenson, Key, et. al.

Both Chicagoland and Everywhere Else have better back courts, though.

[tower912]

That begs the question, is this based on MU career or total career? Because Majerus would be #2 if it was whole career and close to last if it was just MU career.

A fair point.   I was thinking of his time at MU. 

[tower912]

Forgot KO, who id probably put right behind Al.

Doh!

[brewcity77]

Who is coaching which team?    Al>Buzz>Hank>Majerus>Crean>Deane>Dukiet.     Wojo still grades out as Inc.

The "Everywhere Else" team would be coached by Al McGuire.

The "Wisconsin" team would be coached by Rick Majerus.

The "Chicagoland" team is the toughest. I would lean toward Brian Wardle, though Bill Chandler or Jerry Wainright would be decent arguments depending on your criteria.

[HouWarrior]

No Knit picking your effort here....thanks for the nice job of putting this together....
I was impressed that each "team" had some pretty solid stars...
This also recalls the strength of Al's ole NY pipeline....
good thread

[Galway Eagle]

The "Everywhere Else" team would be coached by Al McGuire.

The "Wisconsin" team would be coached by Rick Majerus.

The "Chicagoland" team is the toughest. I would lean toward Brian Wardle, though Bill Chandler or Jerry Wainright would be decent arguments depending on your criteria.

Might be worth it to consider Rivers at player/coach

[brewcity77]

Might be worth it to consider Rivers at player/coach

Suppose you could, though I tried for guys that coached at Marquette (though Wardle and Wainright were only here as assistants).

[Dr. Blackheart]

Goose Brell easily knocks off a few on the Wisconsin team.

How does MU not have a Chicago recruit make it to campus since Steve Taylor?

[Herman Cain]

.....How does MU not have a Chicago recruit make it to campus since Steve Taylor?

We don't pay enough

[Galway Eagle]

Suppose you could, though I tried for guys that coached at Marquette (though Wardle and Wainright were only here as assistants).

Well then you could include Jon Harris who's now head coach down at SIU-E or Jim Smith who's second all time in D3 wins.

[real chili 83]

You need to give some thought to Artie Green and Sam Worthen.  Sam was a damn good passer, and no Warrior jumped higher than Artie.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We don't pay enough

I agree with this sarcastic analysis

[WarriorFan]

So as I'm reading the Chicago line-up I'm thinking no-one could beat those guys... then I see the Wisconsin line up and realize that in a best of 7 they would certainly test the Chicago guys, then I see the everywhere else group and realize that it's probably better than both!  Amazing!

[GooooMarquette]

Jim McIlvaine starting at center for Wisconsin Warriors?  No.
Jim Chones at center, Henry Ellenson at PF with Damon Key backing them both up.  Mac fourth in the rotation.

Agree starting Chones at C and Henry at PF, but while Key backs up Henry, Mac easily is the backup to Chones. 

Mac and Key were both seniors on the 1993-94 team...and it was Mac who won Great Midwest Player of the Year.

[keefe]

Sam Worthen and Larry McNeill need to be on that list.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I agree with this sarcastic analysis

The CPL deserves its reputation. However, MU's Chicago history lies mainly with the suburbs and the two Catholic leagues, with the exception of Bo Ellis. Yet, in 2016, for example, Cal, Gonzaga and Northwestern grabbed four of the Top 5, with SJU and DePaul securing top commits.  The year before it was Brunson to Nova and Seton Hall nabbing Carter out of St. Rita.  Bo leaned into Kaminsky and secured Ben from Mundelein.  Ulis was there for Buzz's taking. Hell, Coach K even dips into Chicago like Collins has at NU.

Yet, crickets...not even a real mention any more.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?State=IL

[dgies9156]

And I think that I'd take David Boone over Toone at PF.

Are you nuts. Or just youthfully ignorant?

Toone would eat Boone's lunch!@

[brewcity77]

Well then you could include Jon Harris who's now head coach down at SIU-E or Jim Smith who's second all time in D3 wins.

Smith would have a case, not sure Harris has done enough yet. As far as the coaches go, Al and Rick seemed pretty clear-cut cases. Chicagoland wasn't quite as certain. Chandler had the time on the job as head coach but a losing overall record, Wainright was probably the most successful despite that DePaul stint, while Wardle has been fairly successful and is one of our own in that he played and coached for us.

[Galway Eagle]

Smith would have a case, not sure Harris has done enough yet. As far as the coaches go, Al and Rick seemed pretty clear-cut cases. Chicagoland wasn't quite as certain. Chandler had the time on the job as head coach but a losing overall record, Wainright was probably the most successful despite that DePaul stint, while Wardle has been fairly successful and is one of our own in that he played and coached for us.

Well if we're allowed to use any coach and it's based off their coaching acumen later rather than time at MU is take Tex Winter over majerus. I was just trying to find coaches a bit more associated with MU than being an assistant here a couple years.

[HoopsterBC]

Don Kojis would easily start and be the star over Damon Key.  Worthen and Memminger as back-up guards, no way, one starts.  George was the best scoring
small forward in MU history, he would start over Jimmy Butler.  Have to consider McNeil as well as a starter.  Toone was a trick pony, great shooter, McNeil much
stronger in all other facets of the game, but mainly being mean.

[muwarrior69]

Sam Worthen and Larry McNeill need to be on that list.

So does Jim Boylan.

[brewcity77]

Well if we're allowed to use any coach and it's based off their coaching acumen later rather than time at MU is take Tex Winter over majerus. I was just trying to find coaches a bit more associated with MU than being an assistant here a couple years.

You may have missed my point. Al is the best coach from everywhere else. Tex Winter is from Texas, so he couldn't coach the Wisconsin team, the only way he coaches is if you think he's better than Al McGuire.

That's why it's Rick Majerus in Wisconsin. The best head coach Marquette had from Chicagoland is Chandler, though using assistants, Wardle or Wainright could be argued.

[oldwarrior81]

NYC may warrant it's own team.
You had Dean Meminger, Butch Lee, George Thompson, Earl Tatum, Bernard Toone and Roney Eford on the original Everywhere Else team.

As others mentioned you can add Sam Worthen, Larry McNeill, Jim Boylan, plus Ric Cobb, Mandy Johnson, Artie Green, Dwayne Johnson amongst others.


When the Everywhere Else team loses the NYC guys it probably becomes the weakest team.
Remaining from the original list is Dominic James, DJO, Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, Maurice Lucas plus I'll leave Lazar as he's from Buffalo.

Others that could be considered to fill in for the NYC guys could be Tony Miller, Aaron Hutchins, Michael Wilson, Matt Carlino, Kerry Trotter, Joe Thomas, Oliver Lee, David Boone, Marc Marotta, Mike Moran, Davante Gardner.

[Galway Eagle]

You may have missed my point. Al is the best coach from everywhere else. Tex Winter is from Texas, so he couldn't coach the Wisconsin team, the only way he coaches is if you think he's better than Al McGuire.

That's why it's Rick Majerus in Wisconsin. The best head coach Marquette had from Chicagoland is Chandler, though using assistants, Wardle or Wainright could be argued.

Yes I definitely missed your point.

But definitely not chandler, I've made this argument before but chandler was not a good coach he had 4 good seasons out of 20 (maybe more)

[brewcity77]

Yes I definitely missed your point.

But definitely not chandler, I've made this argument before but chandler was not a good coach he had 4 good seasons out of 20 (maybe more)

Agreed, Chandler had a sub-.500 career record. I'd probably lean towards Jerry, he took two different teams to the NCAA Tournament and three (including DePaul) to the NIT.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

How does MU not have a Chicago recruit make it to campus since Steve Taylor?

There's been surprisingly few MU players from Chicago in recent years. Steve Taylor is the only Chicago-area Marquette recruit in the last 10 years.

Chicago-area MU players since 2000 (not including walk-ons like Tommy Brice, Dylan Flood, etc.)

Steve Taylor (Chicago): 2012-2015
Mo Acker (Hazelcrest): 2006-2010
Jerel McNeal (Chicago/Country Club Hills): 2005-2009
Ousmane Barro (Dakar Senegal by way of Chicago Julian HS): 2004-08
Joe Chapman (Chicago/ Chicago Heights): 2002-2006
Todd Townsend (Chicago): 2001-2005
Dameon Mason (Aurora): 2003-2005
Dwyane Wade (Robbins): 2001-2003
Odartey Blankson (Country Club Hills): 2001-02
Ron Howard (Chicago): 2001-02
Kevin Menard (Frankfort): 2001-02
Cordell Henry (Chicago):1998-2002
Brian Wardle (Clarendon Hills): 1997-2001




That's it.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Who was that Blankson fellow?

[Galway Eagle]

There's been surprisingly few MU players from Chicago in recent years. Steve Taylor is the only Chicago-area Marquette recruit in the last 10 years.

Chicago-area MU players since 2000 (not including walk-ons like Tommy Brice, Dylan Flood, etc.)

Steve Taylor (Chicago): 2012-2015
Mo Acker (Hazelcrest): 2006-2010
Jerel McNeal (Chicago/Country Club Hills): 2005-2009
Ousmane Barro (Dakar Senegal by way of Chicago Julian HS): 2004-08
Joe Chapman (Chicago/ Chicago Heights): 2002-2006
Todd Townsend (Chicago): 2001-2005
Dameon Mason (Aurora): 2003-2005
Dwyane Wade (Robbins): 2001-2003
Odartey Blankson (Country Club Hills): 2001-02
Ron Howard (Chicago): 2001-02
Kevin Menard (Frankfort): 2001-02
Cordell Henry (Chicago):1998-2002
Brian Wardle (Clarendon Hills): 1997-2001




That's it.

Reggie smith

[Dr. Blackheart]

Reggie smith

Also, The Flame was a strong verbal under Buzz to replace Teve.

Novak was born in Libertyville.  And Crean and Buzz where strong second place finishers to many in Chicago.