More conference expansion nonsense

[GGGG]

IIRC, the SEC is the only conference that has no exit fee.  Now that's confidence.

The B10 doesn't either.  But I believe they both have grant-of-rights agreements in place.

[Knight Commission]

It isn't as much about CSU "having" the Denver market as much as being in it. Rutgers is a non entity in the NYC market when compared to others schools in the region but due to their proximity they got the Big Ten invite so BTN would be on basic cable.  CSU would do that for Denver and a Big 12 network.

As for BYU, you run into the issue of no Sunday games and other demands they make.

This is a pet peeve. New Jersey is a huge market in its own right with or without NYC. Whether Rutgers owns NYC or not is not the primary reason it was added to the Big 10.  It was added because it owns a big market like NJ, like for example Iowa owns Iowa. 

We in the Big East are a bit too focused and jaded by major market share in assessing a program's prominence. People in rural America also watch sports.

[Coleman]

People in rural America also watch sports.

NASCAR is not a sport

[Herman Cain]

NASCAR is not a sport

Correct, it is a religion.

[mu03eng]

I get that its a factor, and all the linked articles said its "a big criteria" and "very important".  Fine, but is it an absolute deal breaker?  Would they turn down ND, or refuse to take OU as a package deal with UT just because of AAU membership?  I'm not convinced of that.  If they were really serious about it they'd kick out Nebraska.

The link that actually said it was a requirement was a UConn message board with a paraphrased quote from Twitter about Delaney testifying in the lawsuit accusing the Big Ten of being a price-fixing cartel.  That's the same testimony where he said the Big Ten would stop sponsoring sports if athletes got paid.  I don't think either of those statements are an absolute hard-line rule they'd stick to.

Nobody is saying it's a hard and fast rule simply that it is a high priority so the money/eye balls generated by a non-AAU school better be great get. ND and Oklahoma as a package deal with Texas are worth it....just about anyone else, probably not worth it if they aren't AAU

[ChicosBailBonds]

I get that its a factor, and all the linked articles said its "a big criteria" and "very important".  Fine, but is it an absolute deal breaker?  Would they turn down ND, or refuse to take OU as a package deal with UT just because of AAU membership?  I'm not convinced of that.  If they were really serious about it they'd kick out Nebraska.

The link that actually said it was a requirement was a UConn message board with a paraphrased quote from Twitter about Delaney testifying in the lawsuit accusing the Big Ten of being a price-fixing cartel.  That's the same testimony where he said the Big Ten would stop sponsoring sports if athletes got paid.  I don't think either of those statements are an absolute hard-line rule they'd stick to.

Very few things in this world are absolute or a deal breaker.  It is just to date, everyone that has ever been invited has been AAU and it's always been very high on the priority list.  I shared a few years ago that when working with the Big Ten Network guys we had to understand who the potential expansion candidates were to properly value any rights deals.  The network and the conference made it clear that almost with total certainty we had to think in terms of AAU membership was a must have.  That allowed us to put a bunch of schools off the list so we knew roughly the possibilities of where expansion might have and determine what the risk could be down the road.

But of course they could change gears.  The AAU stuff is driven by the academics. 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-13/sports/ct-spt-0614-aau-big-ten-expansion--20100613_1_aau-nebraska-chancellor-harvey-perlman-big-ten-members


It matters

http://newsok.com/article/5473247

[Herman Cain]

Here is an interesting article on the BTN.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/purdue/2015/07/16/big-ten-network-big-ten-revenue-money/30229169/
Payout $1million per year per member.

[Billy Hoyle]

This is a pet peeve. New Jersey is a huge market in its own right with or without NYC. Whether Rutgers owns NYC or not is not the primary reason it was added to the Big 10.  It was added because it owns a big market like NJ, like for example Iowa owns Iowa. 

We in the Big East are a bit too focused and jaded by major market share in assessing a program's prominence. People in rural America also watch sports.

People in New Jersey don't give a damn about Rutgers athletics (other than the taxes they pay to supports his a marginal product).  It was about NYC cable.

[DFW HOYA]

IIRC, the SEC is the only conference that has no exit fee.  Now that's confidence.

Correct: $0 exit fee. The last school to take them up on that offer was Tulane in 1966, and history has shown the folly of that decision.

[Herman Cain]

Correct: $0 exit fee. The last school to take them up on that offer was Tulane in 1966, and history has shown the folly of that decision.

Tulane left because they believed there was some new kind of southern Ivy League that was going to be formed called the Magnolia Conference with Duke Virginia Rice etc , it never happened.

[GGGG]

For Tulane, hindsight is 20/20.  If they could have foreseen the future, they wouldn't have left the SEC.  (Georgia Tech wouldn't have either just two years before Tulane did.)

[Spotcheck Billy]

Here's a decent breakdown of what might be the biggest factors regarding BIG 12 expansion, they could care less about AAU membership:
As first reported by Chuck Carlton of the Dallas Morning News, The Big 12's composition committee has settled on a final four: BYU, Cincinnati, Colorado State and UCONN. Whispers are that UCF, USF, Memphis and Houston are no longer being considered. Keep in mind this, if the Big 12 expands who they add will be based more on which school can get the needed eight votes, rather than the merit of the individual programs. Merit does not automatically translate into votes, especially when each of the Group of Five candidates have nearly identical metrics. Compromises will be made and the opinions of Texas and Oklahoma will weigh more heavily than others.

http://landgrantgauntlet.com/2016/05/12/the-big-12-may-have-their-final-four-but-expansion-hinges-on-texas-the-acc/

Here are comments from the ACC commish Swofford about the ACC network, he states there is no deadline although he hints about the rumored $45M annual penalty ESPN might have to pay the ACC, if there is a penalty there must be a deadline, no?

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article77253192.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here's a decent breakdown of what might be the biggest factors regarding BIG 12 expansion, they could care less about AAU membership:

Yup, the Big 12 is at the bottom (of Power 5) when it comes to academics...no question.

http://newsok.com/article/5473247

[mu03eng]

Yup, the Big 12 is at the bottom (of Power 5) when it comes to academics...no question.

http://newsok.com/article/5473247

There is a difference between general academic missions of university where Big 12 is admittedly very low and academic mission of athletic departments within the university. On all measures the $EC is the worst of the academic conferences from an academic perspective with the Big 12 in 4th.

[Herman Cain]

For Tulane, hindsight is 20/20.  If they could have foreseen the future, they wouldn't have left the SEC.  (Georgia Tech wouldn't have either just two years before Tulane did.)

The other unspoken issue in those days was integration on the athletic fields. The Big Ten schools were early adopters and football teams  who truly embraced  integration like Michigan State dominated in football recruiting guys like Bubba Smith. The southern schools were lilly white and eventually had to embrace reality . It is a possibility Tulane saw that future and for their own reasons simply opted out.

[frozena pizza]

People in New Jersey don't give a damn about Rutgers athletics (other than the taxes they pay to supports his a marginal product).  It was about NYC cable.

Penn State and West Virginia have more fans in New Jersey than Rutgers.

[Knight Commission]

That is just plain silly....Rutgers by far

http://www.vividseats.com/blog/most-popular-college-football-teams-by-us-state

[Dawson Rental]

That is just plain silly....Rutgers by far

http://www.vividseats.com/blog/most-popular-college-football-teams-by-us-state

Wait a minute, Texas Tech is the most popular football team in Texas?  Oklahoma State the most popular team in Oklahoma?  The Big 12 should just tell Oklahoma and Texas that they are lucky to even be in the Big 12.

[79Warrior]

Here's a decent breakdown of what might be the biggest factors regarding BIG 12 expansion, they could care less about AAU membership:
As first reported by Chuck Carlton of the Dallas Morning News, The Big 12's composition committee has settled on a final four: BYU, Cincinnati, Colorado State and UCONN. Whispers are that UCF, USF, Memphis and Houston are no longer being considered. Keep in mind this, if the Big 12 expands who they add will be based more on which school can get the needed eight votes, rather than the merit of the individual programs. Merit does not automatically translate into votes, especially when each of the Group of Five candidates have nearly identical metrics. Compromises will be made and the opinions of Texas and Oklahoma will weigh more heavily than others.

http://landgrantgauntlet.com/2016/05/12/the-big-12-may-have-their-final-four-but-expansion-hinges-on-texas-the-acc/

Here are comments from the ACC commish Swofford about the ACC network, he states there is no deadline although he hints about the rumored $45M annual penalty ESPN might have to pay the ACC, if there is a penalty there must be a deadline, no?

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article77253192.html

It would sure to seem to me that UCONN is geographically a bad fit for the big 12.

[GoldenWarrior11]

It would sure to seem to me that UCONN is geographically a bad fit for the big 12.

UConn would join the PAC-12 in a nanosecond if it meant A) joining a power conference and B) leaving the American.  Geography doesn't matter to them.  The opportunity of playing a group of Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, West Virginia, et al., is too strong to be picky about where those games are located.  West Virginia faced the same "issue" in 2011.  At the end of the day, it's either face higher and longer travel or be grouped with a bunch of castoffs and outsiders.  Easy decision for school presidents and athletic directors. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is a difference between general academic missions of university where Big 12 is admittedly very low and academic mission of athletic departments within the university. On all measures the $EC is the worst of the academic conferences from an academic perspective with the Big 12 in 4th.

Not on all measures.  US News Rankings   http://collegespun.com/national/which-of-the-5-major-athletics-conferences-has-the-best-schools-academically

1. ACC – 55.8
2. Big Ten – 58.4
3. PAC-12 – 81.8
4. SEC – 98.7
5. Big 12 – 113.1


Or Reputation rankings

http://www.languagemonitor.com/top-colleges/pac-12-upsets-big-ten-for-top-academic-reputation-after-conference-realignment/


Etc

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903703604576584771531621708

etc

https://infogr.am/2014-power-football-academic-rankings


Big 12, dead last

[GoldenWarrior11]

Not on all measures.  US News Rankings   http://collegespun.com/national/which-of-the-5-major-athletics-conferences-has-the-best-schools-academically

1. ACC – 55.8
2. Big Ten – 58.4
3. PAC-12 – 81.8
4. SEC – 98.7
5. Big 12 – 113.1


Or Reputation rankings

http://www.languagemonitor.com/top-colleges/pac-12-upsets-big-ten-for-top-academic-reputation-after-conference-realignment/


Etc

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903703604576584771531621708

etc

https://infogr.am/2014-power-football-academic-rankings


Big 12, dead last

Tulane and Rice to the Big 12.  Done deal.

[brewcity77]

Wait a minute, Texas Tech is the most popular football team in Texas?  Oklahoma State the most popular team in Oklahoma?  The Big 12 should just tell Oklahoma and Texas that they are lucky to even be in the Big 12.

That list is so ridiculous. Colorado is most popular in Wyoming but not Colorado (K State holds the honor). Illinois may be ridiculed in their home state, but no way is Missouri more popular (Notre Dame could also be #1). Lots to laugh at on this list.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

It would sure to seem to me that UCONN is geographically a bad fit for the big 12.

Geographically maybe.  But for the discussed Big 12 network no one from the G5 is going to deliver more cable boxes.

Interesting I was reading this week that UConn and UT have a good relationship.  Men's and women's basketball teams play regularly.

[Dawson Rental]

It would sure to seem to me that UCONN is geographically a bad fit for the big 12.

UConn would join the PAC-12 in a nanosecond if it meant A) joining a power conference and B) leaving the American.  Geography doesn't matter to them.  The opportunity of playing a group of Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, West Virginia, et al., is too strong to be picky about where those games are located.  West Virginia faced the same "issue" in 2011.  At the end of the day, it's either face higher and longer travel or be grouped with a bunch of castoffs and outsiders.  Easy decision for school presidents and athletic directors. 

As 79 Warrior said UConn is a bad fit for the Big 12, not for UConn.