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Author Topic: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?  (Read 54148 times)

MU82

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #400 on: August 07, 2018, 04:20:33 PM »
I can only think of one.

The one who in 2015 told Jones: "Your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down”?

If so, I never talk about that one, so forget I mentioned him or her.
I'm so old and so stubborn, I still call our early-80s PG "Glenn."

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #401 on: August 08, 2018, 02:15:25 AM »
The one who in 2015 told Jones: "Your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down”?

If so, I never talk about that one, so forget I mentioned him or her.

He's kind of like Voldemort, "He who should not be named."
Unfortunately he's in our face all the time.

WarriorDad

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #402 on: August 08, 2018, 07:40:59 AM »
Apple - along with Facebook, YouTube and Spotify - finally kicked the d-bag conspiracy theorist Alex Jones off their sites.

For those who might not know, Jones is now being sued for repeatedly claiming that Sandy Hook didn't really happen, the government is running a conspiracy to make us think it happened, and 20 little kids actually faked their deaths.

Jones is claiming this is a First Amendment issue. Of course it isn't. Apple can take any podcast it wants off iTunes, and Jones still can spew his demented world view any time he wants.

If there are 10 bigger d-bags in the world than Alex Jones, I can't name 'em.

Never even heard of the guy until last two days.  Nutcase.  However, I think those tech companies made a mistake. They are making him into a martyr, for one. Secondly, with them all acting at the same time, they will be accused of colluding.  Finally, I may disagree with someone but will defend their right to the death for them to say what they want.  This becomes more than a slippery slope, but a straight down cliff.   So much division in this country already with camps going to different media, this will result in people going to their havens for social media, too. 

Then I read about the latest member of the NY Times editorial board. Wow.  These are crazy times.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
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mu03eng

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #403 on: August 08, 2018, 07:49:52 AM »
Never even heard of the guy until last two days.  Nutcase.  However, I think those tech companies made a mistake. They are making him into a martyr, for one. Secondly, with them all acting at the same time, they will be accused of colluding.  Finally, I may disagree with someone but will defend their right to the death for them to say what they want.  This becomes more than a slippery slope, but a straight down cliff.   So much division in this country already with camps going to different media, this will result in people going to their havens for social media, too. 

Then I read about the latest member of the NY Times editorial board. Wow.  These are crazy times.

The difference between Alex Jones and Sarah Jeong is comparing black holes to apples, thats whataboutism in the most classic sense. And BTW it's not universal, twitter is getting hammered for not banning him.

The tech companies are walking a difficult path because they are basically having to police speech because the consumers of speech are unwilling to do it for themselves. Alex Jones is a despicable human being and his lies hurt people, but shouldn't that be on the people who may or may not hear his speech to just not listen? I'm hard pressed to believe there is speech so dangerous it should be suppressed in any form but I admit I could be wrong or overly libertarian.

To bring it back to the point of the thread though....does this type of expectation of moderation need to get priced into the risk for some tech companies like Facebook, Spotify, Apple, etc who are platforms for speech but now they are suddenly burdened with cost and PR considerations around policing speech?
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GGGG

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #404 on: August 08, 2018, 07:50:30 AM »
Never even heard of the guy until last two days.  Nutcase.  However, I think those tech companies made a mistake. They are making him into a martyr, for one. Secondly, with them all acting at the same time, they will be accused of colluding.  Finally, I may disagree with someone but will defend their right to the death for them to say what they want.  This becomes more than a slippery slope, but a straight down cliff.   So much division in this country already with camps going to different media, this will result in people going to their havens for social media, too. 

Then I read about the latest member of the NY Times editorial board. Wow.  These are crazy times.


I couldn't write a "Chicos trying so hard not to sound like Chicos" post if I tried.

NWarsh

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #405 on: August 08, 2018, 10:19:47 AM »
Never even heard of the guy until last two days.  Nutcase.  However, I think those tech companies made a mistake. They are making him into a martyr, for one. Secondly, with them all acting at the same time, they will be accused of colluding.  Finally, I may disagree with someone but will defend their right to the death for them to say what they want.  This becomes more than a slippery slope, but a straight down cliff.   So much division in this country already with camps going to different media, this will result in people going to their havens for social media, too. 

Then I read about the latest member of the NY Times editorial board. Wow.  These are crazy times.

The tech companies are not stopping him from saying what he wants to.  He can still say what he wants, but he cannot say it on their private corporation platforms.  Nowhere in the 1st amendment does it say private corporations need to provide a platform for people to say what they want to say.  This can be a slippery slope, agreed, but as long as they are not discriminating based on gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc I have no problem with private companies determining who can and cannot speak on their platforms.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

tower912

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #406 on: August 08, 2018, 10:35:57 AM »
Those corporations refusing to provide a platform for 'that guy' is no different than moderators here cleaning up threads, giving people time outs, or banning them.   It is their playground and therefore their rules.  When moderators here decide someone is being a bully, or racist, or a demagogue, they get banned.    It is their playground and therefore their rules.   
   The big platforms have decided that an individual is more trouble than he is worth and does not reflect their corporate values.

Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

TSmith34

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #407 on: August 08, 2018, 12:39:11 PM »

I couldn't write a "Chicos trying so hard not to sound like Chicos" post if I tried.
Trying not to sound like himself while making his same arguments.  Never heard of the guy until two days ago?  Laughable.  Arguing that Jones should be given a platform to spew hate while not understanding that this isn't a 1st amendment case?  Classic Chicos.
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Babybluejeans

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #408 on: August 08, 2018, 01:11:15 PM »
Trying not to sound like himself while making his same arguments.  Never heard of the guy until two days ago?  Laughable.  Arguing that Jones should be given a platform to spew hate while not understanding that this isn't a 1st amendment case?  Classic Chicos.

My favorite is the false equivalence to the NYT writer that has only Tucker Carlson, and cheesedicks like him, pretending to be outraged. No one else. And yet Chicos walked into that like a bear into a trap.

TSmith34

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #409 on: August 08, 2018, 01:39:13 PM »
Finally, I may disagree with someone but will defend their right to the death for them to say what they want.
Here, Chicos, maybe this will help.



This is what happened to you, at least six times on this very site.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 01:41:10 PM by TSmith34 »
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Jockey

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #410 on: August 08, 2018, 05:21:44 PM »
My favorite is the false equivalence to the NYT writer that has only Tucker Carlson, and cheesedicks like him, pretending to be outraged. No one else. And yet Chicos walked into that like a bear into a trap.

Jones can still say whatever he wants. And the gov't can't prevent him from doing it.

Sadly, chicos doesn't understand the difference between gov't and a private business.

JWags85

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #411 on: August 08, 2018, 06:12:55 PM »
My favorite is the false equivalence to the NYT writer that has only Tucker Carlson, and cheesedicks like him, pretending to be outraged. No one else. And yet Chicos walked into that like a bear into a trap.

Welcome to 2018 where you can't say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifaoKZfQpdA

about one or more people without trying to use it to prop up someone else terrible from the other side of the fence.

WarriorDad

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #412 on: August 08, 2018, 10:51:41 PM »
The difference between Alex Jones and Sarah Jeong is comparing black holes to apples, thats whataboutism in the most classic sense. And BTW it's not universal, twitter is getting hammered for not banning him.

The tech companies are walking a difficult path because they are basically having to police speech because the consumers of speech are unwilling to do it for themselves. Alex Jones is a despicable human being and his lies hurt people, but shouldn't that be on the people who may or may not hear his speech to just not listen? I'm hard pressed to believe there is speech so dangerous it should be suppressed in any form but I admit I could be wrong or overly libertarian.

To bring it back to the point of the thread though....does this type of expectation of moderation need to get priced into the risk for some tech companies like Facebook, Spotify, Apple, etc who are platforms for speech but now they are suddenly burdened with cost and PR considerations around policing speech?

It matters because it is another unforced error.  1/2 the country already calls the news fake and hypocritical, actions like this for right or wrong cement that further.  Slate had a good article on this.  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/sarah-jeong-shouldnt-be-fired-for-her-tweets-that-doesnt-mean-liberals-have-to-defend-them.html

I am also a reader of the Atlantic, and her attacks on one of their journalists was uncalled for.  https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/sarah-jeong-proposed-banning-atlantic-editor-who-exposed-hunting-ground

More of the pull toward the extremes in my opinion, which is unfortunate. These are crazy times. This is an action that the Times would not have taken in the past and I question their motives now as an avid reader for at least 30 years.

Twitter doesn't have much of a leg to stand on when one considers whom they allow to tweet. If you ban someone on these sites as they collectively did, you better be ready to defend why someone else isn't banned. You can call it Whataboutism, but it is perception and bad optics.  Benefits only the extremes and makes it appear these entities are picking sides.  With that, people will leave those platforms and that is bad for business.  That doesn't mean anything goes, but it can't be two sets of rules either.

Michael Jordan famously said Republicans buy sneakers, too. He was no dummy.  If these sites alienate one side or the other, they will lose followers and that means advertising revenue.  Unneeded.  I say this as an owner of FANG, got out of some of the Facebook a few months ago, but still own some.  Do not own Twitter, think it is the easiest to copy with GAB or something else someone dreams up.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

WarriorDad

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #413 on: August 08, 2018, 10:54:50 PM »
The tech companies are not stopping him from saying what he wants to.  He can still say what he wants, but he cannot say it on their private corporation platforms.  Nowhere in the 1st amendment does it say private corporations need to provide a platform for people to say what they want to say.  This can be a slippery slope, agreed, but as long as they are not discriminating based on gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc I have no problem with private companies determining who can and cannot speak on their platforms.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Define private company.  They are publicly traded and in some cases receive government assistance, are they truly private?  Regardless, I'm not advocating a 1st amendment issue at all.  Not sure why you are claiming I have.  I'm well aware of the difference.

It comes down to whether these entities are an exchange of free thinking ideas or only those that they support. In my view, even if I disagree with those views, that is a mistake and further pulls both sides apart.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

MU82

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #414 on: August 08, 2018, 11:16:23 PM »
I agree that Apple, etc, might make Jones a martyr. Otherwise, I don't agree with much of what  chicos2 says.

Those platforms refusing to air Jones' crapola is no different than CBS refusing to air hard-core pornography, Fox News refusing to have a left-wing host, MSNBC refusing to have a right-wing host, etc.

Nobody is stopping Alex Jones from spewing his hate, racism and conspiracy theories. He just has to find outlets that will accept them. Maybe Hannity needs a co-host.

Oh, and most of the same people who are outraged that Jones is being "denied his freedom of speech" believe the NFL not only has the right to blackball Kaepernick but has a duty to do so.
I'm so old and so stubborn, I still call our early-80s PG "Glenn."

WarriorDad

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:19:07 AM by WarriorDad »
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #416 on: August 09, 2018, 02:53:15 AM »
I agree that Apple, etc, might make Jones a martyr. Otherwise, I don't agree with much of what  chicos2 says.

Those platforms refusing to air Jones' crapola is no different than CBS refusing to air hard-core pornography, Fox News refusing to have a left-wing host, MSNBC refusing to have a right-wing host, etc.

Nobody is stopping Alex Jones from spewing his hate, racism and conspiracy theories. He just has to find outlets that will accept them. Maybe Hannity needs a co-host.

Oh, and most of the same people who are outraged that Jones is being "denied his freedom of speech" believe the NFL not only has the right to blackball Kaepernick but has a duty to do so.

MSNBC does have hosts from the right.  Joe Scarborough, Nicole Wallace, Steve Schmidt, Michael Steele, and that nuttier-than-a-fruitcake Hugh Hewitt.  MSNBC is left opinionated for sure, but they don't repeatadly make crap up or pitch utter BS and conspiracy theories like it's normal news.

Jay Bee

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #417 on: August 09, 2018, 08:09:15 AM »
MSNBC does have hosts from the right.  Joe Scarborough

Yeah, dude left the Republican Party

tower912

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #418 on: August 09, 2018, 08:25:23 AM »
Dude argues the republican party left him.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

WarriorDad

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #419 on: August 09, 2018, 09:14:54 AM »
MSNBC does have hosts from the right.  Joe Scarborough, Nicole Wallace, Steve Schmidt, Michael Steele, and that nuttier-than-a-fruitcake Hugh Hewitt.  MSNBC is left opinionated for sure, but they don't repeatadly make crap up or pitch utter BS and conspiracy theories like it's normal news.

I agree with this.  Fox has hosts from the left, too.  Chris Wallace, is a Democrat.   Alan Colmes (RIP) was there for years,a  Democrats.  According to one list I found, at least 20 contributors.  Sally Kohn wrote a piece in Time about her work there.  http://time.com/5233477/sally-kohn-the-opposite-of-hate/

I believe it was only 24 hours ago that MU82 accused others of making a statement(s) without a shred of evidence to back it up, but then he comes out with that statement.   :P
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
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MU82

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #420 on: August 09, 2018, 09:20:10 AM »
MSNBC does have hosts from the right.  Joe Scarborough, Nicole Wallace, Steve Schmidt, Michael Steele, and that nuttier-than-a-fruitcake Hugh Hewitt.  MSNBC is left opinionated for sure, but they don't repeatadly make crap up or pitch utter BS and conspiracy theories like it's normal news.

This is true, fair enough, but I did say "right-wing," and I'm usually talking about extreme when I use that term.

Schmidt is now a Democrat, I believe.

I agree with this.  Fox has hosts from the left, too.  Chris Wallace, is a Democrat.   Alan Colmes (RIP) was there for years,a  Democrats.  According to one list I found, at least 20 contributors.  Sally Kohn wrote a piece in Time about her work there.  http://time.com/5233477/sally-kohn-the-opposite-of-hate/

I believe it was only 24 hours ago that MU82 accused others of making a statement(s) without a shred of evidence to back it up, but then he comes out with that statement.   :P

Again, I said "left-wing," and I was talking about the extreme. I should have said "extreme," chicos2, I admit that. I think you'd agree with me that when one thinks of "left-wingers," one doesn't think of Chris Wallace.

Unlike some (you might want to look in the mirror), I don't just fabricate stuff. But nice try.

Anyway, this was about Alex Jones. One does not have to devolve into politics at all to discuss his brand of hate and his tin-foil BS.
I'm so old and so stubborn, I still call our early-80s PG "Glenn."

TSmith34

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #421 on: August 09, 2018, 09:22:29 AM »
This is true, fair enough, but I did say "right-wing," and I'm usually talking about extreme when I use that term.

Schmidt is now a Democrat, I believe.

Schmidt became an independent.  It's going to take the dude who helped foist Sarah Palin on us a long time to atone for his misdeeds.
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MU82

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #422 on: August 09, 2018, 09:28:17 AM »
(Another) new all-time high for AAPL today.

Smuggles sure owes a lot of Scoopers money!
I'm so old and so stubborn, I still call our early-80s PG "Glenn."

Jay Bee

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #423 on: August 09, 2018, 09:52:06 AM »
SONO back under $17. I hopped back in. #pray

MUBurrow

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Re: What's Wrong With Apple (stock)?
« Reply #424 on: August 09, 2018, 10:31:06 AM »
SONO back under $17. I hopped back in. #pray

Smart. There's a lot more room to go up than down at only $1.50 above offering. Everyone's scared of the bad comps (fitbit) and stiff competition (Alexa) but they'll keep their niche long enough to get out with a little profit.

 

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