Long Form on Jae

[Taint]

Past 5 games?  For Marquette that included two blowout losses.  That is going to screw with playing time decisions consistently.

For most top 20 teams that includes tournaments.  They are going to be much more consistent in those games.

If Pomeroy had season long data in this statistic, I'd share it, and feel it would be quite similar.  Furthermore, I don't feel once a Top 20 teams gets to the NCAA it all of a sudden drastically alters its approach to a more consistent and cohesive lineup.

My over-arching point is this:  Our best lineup combination was Traci, Haanif, JJJ, Henry and Luke.  That lineup was started exactly 2 times all year - in our 30th and 31st game. 

Will be quite interesting to see how Wojo manages the lineup this upcoming season as we have a ton of guards - can see the paradox of choice creating further lineup disarray.

[brewcity77]

This is ridiculous. You're trying to create issues that don't exist. Your ability to posit a rational argument seems to be getting worse as you progress toward the backside of the anatomy.

[wadesworld]

The issue did exist.  My point is there was NO reason JJJ shouldn't have been playing 30 minutes per game ALL year.  No reason he shouldn't have been playing 30 in all 16 of the games we were discussing. We can also look to the Creighton game at home where we lost by 3 and Wojo had JJJ on the bench for basically the whole 2nd half.  He played 17 minutes in that game.  Cohen played 20.

Just because Wojo primarily played 8-9 guys does NOT mean he had a clearly defined rotation.  He didn't.  We had various starting lineups.  Mass substitution, with no consistent pattern.  And RARELY did the lineup of Carter, Cheatham, JJJ, Henry and Luke get to play together for LONG stretches of play.  By my research, that lineup was started only 2 times all year. 

It is nearly impossible to get any kind of consistent performance out of a team when there is virtually NO consistency to the lineup and rotation, and frequent substitution.

I'm glad you brought this game up.  It continues to be beyond hilarious to me that you try to tear apart Wojo's coaching ability at every chance you can when you then go and hold opinions like this.  I was at the Creighton game at home and it was ABUNDANTLY clear that the gameplay was to GET BACK ON DEFENSE whether it was off of a made basket or a rebound or live ball turnover.  The coaching staff had clearly seen plenty of Creighton film and knew that their offense relied on beating the defense down the court and not allowing the defense to set up.  After just about every made basket that entire game Wojo, Stan, and Nelson were all jumping off the bench SCREAMING for everyone to run back.  If I paid attention to Heldt and Mache on the bench I would be willing to be that they were doing the same, as it was clear that everyone should have been well aware what their job was to do first and foremost defensively: SPRINT BACK!

There were 3 straight possessions where JJJ made a layup and lollygagged back, leading to Creighton beating us down the floor and hitting a wide open corner 3, JaJuan chucked up a bad 3 pointer and held the hand up watching it while his man got a run out layup, and then JJJ tried to drive through all 5 defenders, threw up a wild shot at the backboard, and when he knew it had no chances of going in flopped to the ground and just laid there while Creighton hit another wide open 3 to go from down 6 to up 2.  Wojo went to the bench, and absolutely deservedly so.  If you can't follow a game plan then find the pine.  And even if the game plan had nothing to do with transition D (which it clearly did), if you're going to lay on the ground begging for a call after you went completely out of control, you can find the pine.

You think Wojo can't coach, but then when your new favorite guy doesn't follow what the coach had in his game plan you scream and cry about why your favorite player isn't allowed to just do whatever he wants on the court and get 40 mpg.  You just don't understand the game.

[Taint]

I'm glad you brought this game up.  It continues to be beyond hilarious to me that you try to tear apart Wojo's coaching ability at every chance you can when you then go and hold opinions like this.  I was at the Creighton game at home and it was ABUNDANTLY clear that the gameplay was to GET BACK ON DEFENSE whether it was off of a made basket or a rebound or live ball turnover.  The coaching staff had clearly seen plenty of Creighton film and knew that their offense relied on beating the defense down the court and not allowing the defense to set up.  After just about every made basket that entire game Wojo, Stan, and Nelson were all jumping off the bench SCREAMING for everyone to run back.  If I paid attention to Heldt and Mache on the bench I would be willing to be that they were doing the same, as it was clear that everyone should have been well aware what their job was to do first and foremost defensively: SPRINT BACK!

There were 3 straight possessions where JJJ made a layup and lollygagged back, leading to Creighton beating us down the floor and hitting a wide open corner 3, JaJuan chucked up a bad 3 pointer and held the hand up watching it while his man got a run out layup, and then JJJ tried to drive through all 5 defenders, threw up a wild shot at the backboard, and when he knew it had no chances of going in flopped to the ground and just laid there while Creighton hit another wide open 3 to go from down 6 to up 2.  Wojo went to the bench, and absolutely deservedly so.  If you can't follow a game plan then find the pine.  And even if the game plan had nothing to do with transition D (which it clearly did), if you're going to lay on the ground begging for a call after you went completely out of control, you can find the pine.

You think Wojo can't coach, but then when your new favorite guy doesn't follow what the coach had in his game plan you scream and cry about why your favorite player isn't allowed to just do whatever he wants on the court and get 40 mpg.  You just don't understand the game.

I watched the game too.  Saw the plays you referenced.  The weren't as egregious as you make them out to be.  I've seen Duane Wilson jack up countless ill-advised 3's, particularly with respect to time and situation, and no consequence - as well as frequently and feebly "attack" the rim.  Hell I can't imagine JJJ ever getting the leash to go 1-9 from the 3, and continue to be able to fire at will and play 30+ minutes every game - as we saw Duane go 1-8, 1-6, 2-9, 3-9 and 0-4 his first 5 games this season.

I know you are a HUGE Wojo fan - HUGE - which is great.  Considering you predicted the team this past season would make the Elite 8/Sweet 16, where do you place blame for the team so drastically under-performing your expectations?  #trusttheprocess, right Wades?

As for your comment about not understanding the game...that's rich.  Just rich. 

[Taint]

This is ridiculous. You're trying to create issues that don't exist. Your ability to posit a rational argument seems to be getting worse as you progress toward the backside of the anatomy.

I would expect a better rebuttal than this from you Brew.  As I pointed out, JJJ didn't hit 30 minutes in 8 of the 16 games from the Nova game you mentioned.  He was played 20% less than Duane Wilson.  There is NOTHING on the basketball floor Duane Wilson does better than JJJ.  Nothing.  And Sandy Cohen to get equal PT to JJJ?  Come on Man.

[wadesworld]

I watched the game too.  Saw the plays you referenced.  The weren't as egregious as you make them out to be.  I've seen Duane Wilson jack up countless ill-advised 3's, particularly with respect to time and situation, and no consequence - as well as frequently and feebly "attack" the rim.  Hell I can't imagine JJJ ever getting the leash to go 1-9 from the 3, and continue to be able to fire at will and play 30+ minutes every game - as we saw Duane go 1-8, 1-6, 2-9, 3-9 and 0-4 his first 5 games this season.

I know you are a HUGE Wojo fan - HUGE - which is great.  Considering you predicted the team this past season would make the Elite 8/Sweet 16, where do you place blame for the team so drastically under-performing your expectations?  #trusttheprocess, right Wades?

As for your comment about not understanding the game...that's rich.  Just rich.

Letting your guy beat you down the court off of a made basket is inexcusable under any circumstance.  Standing around and watching your shot (a miss) is inexcusable under any circumstance.  If you're going to get beat on a run out it better have been because you were crashing the offensive glass, not because you were admiring a miss.  Getting frustrated because your coach is yelling at you for not following the game plan for 2 straight possessions and trying to force the action as a result is what you do as a 3rd grader when the game isn't going your way, not as a junior in college.  Laying on the floor because you didn't get a phantom foul call out of your flop after forcing said action is inexcusable.  Find the pine kid.

Jack up bad 3s with regard to time and situation and not have any consequences because, well, the next stoppage in play with those plays were the buzzer to end the game.  I'm pretty confident Wojo addressed those situations with Duane after that game.

Duane was not very good, but I saw him get pulled plenty of times after a series of poor plays, just as JJJ did.  Despite your wanting to believe that Wojo has some vendetta out against JJJ, he really doesn't.  His methods clearly worked, as JJJ played a much more complete game towards the end of the season, and was rewarded with extended minutes.  Wojo will give a player the minutes...if he earns those minutes.  JJJ was solid to very good on one side of the court all year.  He was very bad on the other side of the court early in the season, and drastically improved towards the end of the season.  He finally bought in.

Blame?  I guess I'd blame it on myself for thinking that starting 3 freshman when only 1 of the freshman was a 1 and done talent could perform from day 1.  Youth and inexperience led to a need for a weak out of conference schedule, which allowed for very little room for error, and when you're so young you need some room for error.  I thought Traci would be slightly better than he was (and I'm very happy we have Traci and excited for his future).  I thought Duane would be this team's 2nd best player, and he was nowhere near it.  I thought Luke would be able to stay on the floor a lot more than he was able to.  And you got your phrase wrong.  Stick to the process.

[BM1090]

Well, looks like I need a Scoop break for a few days. Someone call me when Ners is banned again.

[wadesworld]

Well, looks like I need a Scoop break for a few days. Someone call me when Ners is banned again.

Probably a good idea.  Don't know why I got sucked in.

[Taint]

Letting your guy beat you down the court off of a made basket is inexcusable under any circumstance.  Standing around and watching your shot (a miss) is inexcusable under any circumstance.  If you're going to get beat on a run out it better have been because you were crashing the offensive glass, not because you were admiring a miss.  Getting frustrated because your coach is yelling at you for not following the game plan for 2 straight possessions and trying to force the action as a result is what you do as a 3rd grader when the game isn't going your way, not as a junior in college.  Laying on the floor because you didn't get a phantom foul call out of your flop after forcing said action is inexcusable.  Find the pine kid.

Jack up bad 3s with regard to time and situation and not have any consequences because, well, the next stoppage in play with those plays were the buzzer to end the game.  I'm pretty confident Wojo addressed those situations with Duane after that game.

Duane was not very good, but I saw him get pulled plenty of times after a series of poor plays, just as JJJ did.  Despite your wanting to believe that Wojo has some vendetta out against JJJ, he really doesn't.  His methods clearly worked, as JJJ played a much more complete game towards the end of the season, and was rewarded with extended minutes.  Wojo will give a player the minutes...if he earns those minutes.  JJJ was solid to very good on one side of the court all year.  He was very bad on the other side of the court early in the season, and drastically improved towards the end of the season.  He finally bought in.

Blame?  I guess I'd blame it on myself for thinking that starting 3 freshman when only 1 of the freshman was a 1 and done talent could perform from day 1.  Youth and inexperience led to a need for a weak out of conference schedule, which allowed for very little room for error, and when you're so young you need some room for error.  I thought Traci would be slightly better than he was (and I'm very happy we have Traci and excited for his future).  I thought Duane would be this team's 2nd best player, and he was nowhere near it.  I thought Luke would be able to stay on the floor a lot more than he was able to.  And you got your phrase wrong.  Stick to the process.

Look - JJJ played practically perfectly the last 10 games of the season - to where Wojo couldn't pull him off the floor. JJJ just didn't all of a sudden become a good player the last 10.  He finally played SO well Wojo couldn't take him out.  You need consistent minutes to perform.  The standard JJJ was held to was MUCH higher than that of Cheatham, Cohen, Duane.   

How about this one Wades:  At Xavier, JJJ had a wide open baseline drive and dribbled the ball off his his foot.  Something that would happen maybe 1 in 200 attempts.  What happens?  Immediate Horn, JJJ to the bench.  That is NOT good coaching..AT ALL.

The fact you and some* others cannot see and identify the double standard JJJ was held to, and had a much shorter leash says all that needs to be said about your knowledge of basketball.

Hit the pine kid?  Are you serious?  JJJ was easily our 2nd best and most talented player last year, with Cheatham a close third.  You don't win, when you only play your 2nd best player 57% of all minutes in a season.

[wadesworld]

Look - JJJ played practically perfectly the last 10 games of the season - to where Wojo couldn't pull him off the floor. JJJ just didn't all of a sudden become a good player the last 10.  He finally played SO well Wojo couldn't take him out.  You need consistent minutes to perform.  The standard JJJ was held to was MUCH higher than that of Cheatham, Cohen, Duane.   

How about this one Wades:  At Xavier, JJJ had a wide open baseline drive and dribbled the ball off his his foot.  Something that would happen maybe 1 in 200 attempts.  What happens?  Immediate Horn, JJJ to the bench.  That is NOT good coaching..AT ALL.

The fact you and some* others cannot see and identify the double standard JJJ was held to, and had a much shorter leash says all that needs to be said about your knowledge of basketball.

Hit the pine kid?  Are you serious?  JJJ was easily our 2nd best and most talented player last year, with Cheatham a close third.  You don't win, when you only play your 2nd best player 57% of all minutes in a season.

You're right Ners. Every season Bazz and Wojo just pick one of the most talented guys and decides to eff with them and play favorites, putting their career at risk.

Good talk Ners. You obviously know a lot about basketball.

[BM1090]

Look - JJJ played practically perfectly the last 10 games of the season - to where Wojo couldn't pull him off the floor. JJJ just didn't all of a sudden become a good player the last 10.  He finally played SO well Wojo couldn't take him out.  You need consistent minutes to perform.  The standard JJJ was held to was MUCH higher than that of Cheatham, Cohen, Duane.   

How about this one Wades:  At Xavier, JJJ had a wide open baseline drive and dribbled the ball off his his foot.  Something that would happen maybe 1 in 200 attempts.  What happens?  Immediate Horn, JJJ to the bench.  That is NOT good coaching..AT ALL.

The fact you and some* others cannot see and identify the double standard JJJ was held to, and had a much shorter leash says all that needs to be said about your knowledge of basketball.

Hit the pine kid?  Are you serious?  JJJ was easily our 2nd best and most talented player last year, with Cheatham a close third.  You don't win, when you only play your 2nd best player 57% of all minutes in a season.

This is either bad memory or a downright lie. I remember the play in question. Wojo looked at JJ, put his hands up at him as if to say "slow down a bit", and that was the end of it. No sub. He stayed in the game.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Why oh why oh why is Ners back and ruining threads like he never left/was banned in the first place?

[brewcity77]

I would expect a better rebuttal than this from you Brew.  As I pointed out, JJJ didn't hit 30 minutes in 8 of the 16 games from the Nova game you mentioned.  He was played 20% less than Duane Wilson.  There is NOTHING on the basketball floor Duane Wilson does better than JJJ.  Nothing.  And Sandy Cohen to get equal PT to JJJ?  Come on Man.

There's nothing to rebut. He averaged 28.4 mpg and only two players played 30+ more times. You're trying to turn nothing into something.

Meanwhile, Sandy was averaging 16 mpg. So when you say you think Sandy should have played less and Jajuan more, that's exactly what happened. For some reason, you got exactly what you wanted and you're still complaining about it.

I don't know why you are so obsessed with complaining about minutes ago season long, but when what you're arguing for something that already happened, I just don't understand your bitch.

[MomofMUltiples]

Why oh why oh why is Ners back and ruining threads like he never left/was banned in the first place?

Here's the thing guys.  It's not Ners.  IT'S YOU. He can come into any thread and spew any bullcrap he wants, but the threads only go downhill when you insist on responding and arguing with him. "Ignore" doesn't have to be a button, it can also be a state of mind. 

Perhaps we should simply institute a Ners Board, where those of you intent on beating a dead horse with a new name can go to respond to his asinine and intentionally provocative comments.

That was a great article on Jae. It's so great to see his success, and he's a real credit to Marquette's program.

BOOM! Back on topic.

[GGGG]

Here's the thing guys.  It's not Ners.  IT'S YOU. He can come into any thread and spew any bullcrap he wants, but the threads only go downhill when you insist on responding and arguing with him. "Ignore" doesn't have to be a button, it can also be a state of mind. 

You are 100% correct here. Argumentative people do what they can to create arguments.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would expect a better rebuttal than this from you Brew.  As I pointed out, JJJ didn't hit 30 minutes in 8 of the 16 games from the Nova game you mentioned.  He was played 20% less than Duane Wilson.  There is NOTHING on the basketball floor Duane Wilson does better than JJJ.  Nothing.  And Sandy Cohen to get equal PT to JJJ?  Come on Man.

Um...I learned from ners last season that 25 minutes was all that was required for a player to get into a groove. Your just getting greedy with those extra 5 minutes.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Here's the thing guys.  It's not Ners.  IT'S YOU. He can come into any thread and spew any bullcrap he wants, but the threads only go downhill when you insist on responding and arguing with him. "Ignore" doesn't have to be a button, it can also be a state of mind. 

Perhaps we should simply institute a Ners Board, where those of you intent on beating a dead horse with a new name can go to respond to his asinine and intentionally provocative comments.

That was a great article on Jae. It's so great to see his success, and he's a real credit to Marquette's program.

BOOM! Back on topic.

Ha!  True enough, although I learned my lesson a long time ago.  Now I'm just annoyed reading it.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Why oh why oh why is Ners back and ruining threads like he never left/was banned in the first place?

I don't understand it either.  He comes in and spews the same endless arguments in every single thread, making the boards unreadable.  This is what he was banned for in the first place.

[rocky_warrior]

I don't understand it either.  He comes in and spews the same endless arguments in every single thread, making the boards unreadable.  This is what he was banned for in the first place.

Sorry guys - it wasn't really an "allowed" thing.  I was traveling this weekend, catching up on work today, and just got to the moderation reports.  He's muted again.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Very much appreciated Rocky. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Very much appreciated Rocky.

Ditto.

[brewcity77]

Very much appreciated Rocky.

+1

[GGGG]

Thanks.

I don't mind contrarian points of view, but the dude is just so darn argumentative.  And utterly obsessed with arguing arguments from years past.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I saw a VW Bug with a DEEZ-NUTZ German/Euro plate on the front this morning, was that you Taint?

[🏀]

Well done, Rock.