Two year honeymoon is over

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

For a single STH, probably not. But, I gotta think the bean counters at what passes for O'Hara Hall today have some concern over the net profitability of the basketball team if the current slide isn't arrested soon.

The fact remains that we have had three very unsatisfying years in a row after several very high performing seasons. Losses on the floor translate into losses of cash flow. The fastest way for Wojo to find his seatwarmer turned to the high position would be for there to be continued drop-off in season tickets, contribution to the B&G fund and loss of local interest.

Trust me, the Jesuits may have taken a personal vow of poverty, but they understand money as well as any Fortune 500 CEO does!

I don't think Coach Wojo is even close to this point, yet. But it's coming if the cash flow slows.

I really don't think so. Bean counters know that attendance at live sporting events is down at every venue, across all levels, in every kind of sport. MU isn't losing attendance any faster than the average sports team. They also know that once the team starts winning, the casual fans will come running back.

[mu_hilltopper]

I really don't think so. Bean counters know that attendance at live sporting events is down at every venue, across all levels, in every kind of sport. MU isn't losing attendance any faster than the average sports team. They also know that once the team starts winning, the casual fans will come running back.

Disagree with a lot of that. 

I tried to do a quick google check of declining attendance.  NFL was down 4.5% since 2007.  MLB just had 7th highest year.  College football bowls -8% over 5 years.  Maybe you have other data on attendance, feel free to add.

From 2010 to 2015, MU's lowest attended game (likely zero walk ups):

2010 - Tues 12/7 vs Texas A&M-CC - 13,505
2015 - Wednesday 12/2 vs Grambling State - 11,618

So .. down -14%.  That's quite a bit more than those other examples.  Guarantee we lose another X hundred next season, maybe a ton, frankly.

I've posted this before .. I do not think MU's attendance decrease will recover much in the future and will likely continue to decline, (and to your point, at least on -average of all sporting events declines.)

New season ticket holders come from two areas:  Relatively new grads, and perhaps folks who dropped their tickets before.

The newish grads?  The past 3 years have been awful for students .. no post season, very few bright spots .. I'd wager lowest student section attendance in 15+ years.  This upcoming generation of potential ticket buyers .. do not have the fever -- nor the dollars.

As for the "droppers" .. they are not coming back in meaningful numbers.  They dropped for a variety of reasons, but they made a decision to tank their investment in B&G points and aren't going to start from zero again.  They'll come to games, but just buy upper deckers, or scalp a few and sit in the lower bowl.  And the new arena will have more lower seats, helping lower the cost of scalped tickets in the future.

As for casual fans and walk-up sales .. in the Old Big East, maybe.  In the NBE, even if MU gets hot .. you're not going to see significant gains on the Butler/Creighton/Prov/SJU/DePaul vs. MU game by casual walk-up fans buying tickets.

[Benny B]

Not to mention... Millenials are extremely particular with where they spend what disposable income they do have a few years removed from college, and live sporting events is much further down the list than it was for Gen X.  When I graduated college, the first thing I did was buy season tickets for the Brewers... granted, it was a 20-game package in the field bleachers so it only set me back $400 in total (plus I sold my opening day tix for nearly half of that), but that was a pretty big moment for me.  Now days, you have to give the graduates free beer just to get them in the door.

[willie warrior]

Talented....but freshmen.  Some guy you may have heard of once said the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores.  Also zero seniors on this team.

It matters....context is everything.  I'll be happy to get on Wojo when the time is appropriate...this early in, that time has not arrived.

How about this context. Three straight years with no tourney, ant the last 2 are on Wojo, and his illustrious Duke pedigree. I did not say get rid of Wojo, just start applying the pressure. So far, all that has been offered is a contract extension and kissass excuses. Not to mention that attendance is slipping. For over 2 million Zoidies in salary, perks up the wazoo  and a huge budget, more should be expected than "we have a young team."

[AlienWarrior]

All I know is that giving up 90 points a game will not get us many wins.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Simple, because I don't panic anymore.  When I was younger, sure....not anymore.   I see it for what it is.  A team that had freshmen play almost 50% of the minutes, that competed in a tough league, got to 20 wins, had some excellent wins, some bad losses...that's what freshmen teams do. 

His seat will not be hot next season.  He inherited a mess from Buzz, who bailed partly because he wasn't wanted and partly because he knew what he had recruited were the wrong pieces.  Buzz was never a good general manager when it came to high school talent evaluation.  Sure, he did ok with DG....everyone knew VB's talents to lets not go overboard there.  Let's hope Wojo is a good talent evaluator, I don't know.

I feel like JFB was a fairly decent "get" for Buzz

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

it's just getting difficult staying interested and caring. We're losing are best player and bringing in one decent player next year. I just don't see where this gets much better but we'll see Ryan.

Are you just trolling at this point? MU grad here and just honestly there are not very many employable folks misusing words like this even casually.

This is purely advice for something to polish up on your end before the "real world"

[MU82]

Are you just trolling at this point? MU grad here and just honestly there are not very many employable folks misusing words like this even casually.

This is purely advice for something to polish up on your end before the "real world"

O, leeve himm aloan!!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

How about this context. Three straight years with no tourney, ant the last 2 are on Wojo, and his illustrious Duke pedigree. I did not say get rid of Wojo, just start applying the pressure. So far, all that has been offered is a contract extension and kissass excuses. Not to mention that attendance is slipping. For over 2 million Zoidies in salary, perks up the wazoo  and a huge budget, more should be expected than "we have a young team."

I'm quite sure he is applying his own pressure and demands good results.  I hardly think he is one that isn't.  Two years, despite his Duke pedigree means nothing in my opinion.  First year, not his guys.  Second year, his guys but all freshmen.  Process.  No short cuts.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I'm quite sure he is applying his own pressure and demands good results.  I hardly think he is one that isn't.  Two years, despite his Duke pedigree means nothing in my opinion.  First year, not his guys.  Second year, his guys but all freshmen.  Process.  No short cuts.

I agree with Chicos. That alone speaks volumes.

The fact that we have a guy with pedigree and ambition takes care of the motivation. This isn't a washed up dude at the end of his career; Wojo spent every day of his life since he was 18 working for Coach K as a part of the most successful basketball program of the modern era. There's no way he's even close to fine with this.

If this is keeping the casual fan up at night, imagine having your personal legacy and reputation tied to the results.

Wojo is going to do great for MU.

[RocketRodGrosse]

Just like Johnny Dawkins

[ChicosBailBonds]

I feel like JFB was a fairly decent "get" for Buzz

He was, he was also a transfer in.  Like I said, Buzz did well when players were ready made, bodies developed, etc.  Not so great with high school kids, with a few exceptions.

[Hubert Davis]

I think it's great that Wojo is bringing in high character guys, but you know what... character doesn't win basketball games. Talent does. And Wojo's job is to win basketball games. So when/if Henry declares for the NBA draft, we lose our best player and top rebounder and return everybody else from a team that missed out on not only the NCAA but NIT. Next year doesn't look too promising. I'm starting to worry about our beloved program.

JUST WIN BABY

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think it's great that Wojo is bringing in high character guys, but you know what... character doesn't win basketball games. Talent does. And Wojo's job is to win basketball games. So when/if Henry declares for the NBA draft, we lose our best player and top rebounder and return everybody else from a team that missed out on not only the NCAA but NIT. Next year doesn't look too promising. I'm starting to worry about our beloved program.

JUST WIN BABY

Wrong.  This isn't professional sports.  His job, at MU at least, is to win and not put the university in a bad position...that's where Buzz failed, he didn't get the second part.  If you win and keep kids off the evening news, off the police blotter, that's fine.  If you don't, go coach at Va Tech, or Louisville, or Kentucky, or somewhere else....it isn't going to be accepted at MU.

Sorry Al

[RocketRodGrosse]

actually college sports is a lot like professional sports and you're naive to think otherwise. If you don't think every major college football and college basketball team has underhanded things going on you're kidding yourself. It's a matter of the extent of the cheating. We get it-you hate Buzz. You think Saint Al was getting those kids from New York for the weather.

[Benny B]

actually college sports is a lot like professional sports and you're naive to think otherwise. If you don't think every major college football and college basketball team has underhanded things going on you're kidding yourself. It's a matter of the extent of the cheating. We get it-you hate Buzz. You think Saint Al was getting those kids from New York for the weather.

Well, they couldn't exactly go to Lexington and play for a white supremacist named Adolph now, could they?

[ChicosBailBonds]

actually college sports is a lot like professional sports and you're naive to think otherwise. If you don't think every major college football and college basketball team has underhanded things going on you're kidding yourself. It's a matter of the extent of the cheating. We get it-you hate Buzz. You think Saint Al was getting those kids from New York for the weather.

I worked at three schools athletic departments...KU, IU, MU...I'm quite aware.  I'm also quite aware there are degrees to everything and one can be successful without the nonsense, or at least limiting it to a minimum.  No dept is pure, but not every dept has to deal with the drip drip drip we had to either. 

There is also a distinct difference in practice times, the requirement to go to class, stay eligible, etc...which should be obvious.  Remember that 70%to 80% of alumni at most schools don't give a damn about their sports programs....it's a university after all.

[NickelDimer]

He was, he was also a transfer in.  Like I said, Buzz did well when players were ready made, bodies developed, etc.  Not so great with high school kids, with a few exceptions.

Jimmy f*cking Butler is your example of this?! My god chicos, there's such a thing as having an agenda and then there's just utter trash. Did you watch jimmy butler as a sophomore when he transferred in?? Just f*cking stop man. Ridiculous

[Anti-Dentite]

I agree with Chicos. That alone speaks volumes.

The fact that we have a guy with pedigree and ambition takes care of the motivation. This isn't a washed up dude at the end of his career; Wojo spent every day of his life since he was 18 working for Coach K as a part of the most successful basketball program of the modern era. There's no way he's even close to fine with this.

If this is keeping the casual fan up at night, imagine having your personal legacy and reputation tied to the results.

Wojo is going to do great for MU.

Or not...

[real chili 83]

My God....3 dam <sic> years?  Plumitting <sic> you say?   we're losing are <sic> identity.   


Fire your teachers you had growing up

You really have a lot of free time this week.  I recommend some Mama Juana for you.

[rocky_warrior]

You really have a lot of free time this week.  I recommend some Mama Juana for you.

Hah.  That's a +1 for most people posting here, including myself (the trip to Belize wore off fast).

[real chili 83]

Back to reality this week.

Sucks

[ChicosBailBonds]

From 2010 to 2015, MU's lowest attended game (likely zero walk ups):

2010 - Tues 12/7 vs Texas A&M-CC - 13,505
2015 - Wednesday 12/2 vs Grambling State - 11,618

How many idiots out there thought we were playing TEXAS A&M?   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jimmy f*cking Butler is your example of this?! My god chicos, there's such a thing as having an agenda and then there's just utter trash. Did you watch jimmy butler as a sophomore when he transferred in?? Just f*cking stop man. Ridiculous

Was Butler not a transfer in?   Was he not a Junior College All American?  Was he already a more mature, seasoned, veteran of college basketball than any high school kid that plays at MU for the first time?

Yes, I watched him....the same kid that Kentucky wanted.  A good player, and he kept getting better, but he was already a good player when he got to MU.  I'm not saying he did't develop, I'm saying Buzz did better with kids that already played at other schools or JUCOs....do you disagree with this?

If you disagree, fine...tell me why.   In my opinion his work with transfers and JUCOs is different than those with high school kids.  My opinion is because these kids already had 1 or 2 years under their belts...they were more of a proven commodity, easier to determine their production than high school kids.  Again, feel free to disagree.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You really have a lot of free time this week.  I recommend some Mama Juana for you.

+1....enjoy it.  Today was mostly Bloody Marys, kind of the resort's specialty.