UWM AD bans team from post-season play

[Badgerhater]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/uwm-will-pass-on-postseason-basketball-tournaments-b99685711z1-371817131.html

[drewm88]

Can't blame either side in this case. The CBI can be pricey, and they start charging more each round. You can't exactly bow out along the way, but you could easily drop hundreds of thousands. Hard to swallow that pill at a cash-strapped school that's not going to make the money back by selling out the games.

[rocket surgeon]

  what am i missing here?  besides this statement-

 "our option with a fifth-place Horizon League finish is to participate in some other events that are not in the best interests of our program this year."

   so after commending the players/student athletes for their off court accomplishments, are they ABOVE participating in a tournament other than the ncaa and nit?  i mean, it's still good pub for the school and presumptuous of her to disallow the players from post season play.  she may not think it's importamnt, but the players might.  this is just weird.  whenever something doesn't seem right, scratchin my melon...whenever in doubt, follow the money...hmmmmmmm... baby needs new shoes??




   

[brandx]

Can't blame either side in this case. The CBI can be pricey, and they start charging more each round. You can't exactly bow out along the way, but you could easily drop hundreds of thousands. Hard to swallow that pill at a cash-strapped school that's not going to make the money back by selling out the games.

Budget cuts to UW system. They've been struggling with these lately.

[Badgerhater]

Budget cuts to UW system. They've been struggling with these lately.

UWM has run a poorly managed athletic department long before your talking point.

[77ncaachamps]

Budget cuts to UW system. They've been struggling with these lately.

I agree. Paying to play is definitely a NO GO for the cash strapped UW system.

[🏀]

I agree. Paying to play is definitely a NO GO for the cash strapped UW system.

The last river needing tears is the UW system

[rocket surgeon]

 UW-madison sure doesn't have prob;ems with cash-i'm not just saying the athletic dept., but didn't they have this big pile of cash and were admonished for continuing to raise tuition?  call big brotha for a little of that love-ein'a

[GGGG]

My understanding is that donors were willing to underwrite the CBI.  I don't know if it is to the tune of 100% however.

But their athletic department has been incompetent for years. 

[brandx]

UWM has run a poorly managed athletic department long before your talking point.

UWM's share of the budget cut was $30 MIILLION.

Not to mention another $20 MILLION that was promised by the state to put faculty and equipment in the new schools of freshwater science and public health that the state agreed to build. The $20 million never materialized, so UWM had to pull the money from its budget.

These are the FACTS!!

Tell me where the talking point is.

[mu-rara]

Budget cuts to UW system. They've been struggling with these lately.

I thought  revenue sports like Mens BB were self funding.  If a tourney trip will not pay for itself, it doesn't happen.

Didn't Marquette have an opportunity to do the CBI last year, and decide against it?

[Badgerhater]

UWM's share of the budget cut was $30 MIILLION.

Not to mention another $20 MILLION that was promised by the state to put faculty and equipment in the new schools of freshwater science and public health that the state agreed to build. The $20 million never materialized, so UWM had to pull the money from its budget.

These are the FACTS!!

Tell me where the talking point is.

Academics is separate from athletics for funding, so your stats are noise.

[GGGG]

Academics is separate from athletics for funding, so your stats are noise.

Not necessarily.  There are costs that are appropriate for state funding that impact the athletic department.  There isn't a wall between the two.

[keefe]

UWM's share of the budget cut was $30 MIILLION.

Not to mention another $20 MILLION that was promised by the state to put faculty and equipment in the new schools of freshwater science and public health that the state agreed to build. The $20 million never materialized, so UWM had to pull the money from its budget.

These are the FACTS!!

Tell me where the talking point is.

Did Mike Lovell leave behind a steaming turd or did he get out of Dodge while the gettin' was good?

UWM athletics is what it is and most of the world is blissfully unaware.

[GGGG]

UWM has been trying to transform itself over the past 15-20 years from a typical urban commuter school, into a research University second in the state only to Madison.  That has been a very difficult and expensive process.  They have been trying to be more attractive to "traditional" students by increasing on-campus housing, additional scholarships for high merit students, more endowments to recruit top-level faculty, etc.  Part of this was to transform their athletic program as well.

Some of it has worked.  They have a Carnegie research designation.  But their student attendance continues to struggle quantity wise, and quality wise isn't really any better than their UW comprehensive counterparts.  They have some decent benefactors, but they don't raise that much money considering their status. 

And athletics over the past half decade has been a dismal failure for the past decade.  Mismanagement, lack of money, lack of facilities...

Lovell?  He did good work there, but there is really only so much they can do.  If they want to become what they want to become, the state is going to have to invest a lot more and I just don't see that happening.  He did make some poor hires in the athletic department.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Did Mike Lovell leave behind a steaming turd or did he get out of Dodge while the gettin' was good?

UWM athletics is what it is and most of the world is blissfully unaware.

This is why he got out of Dodge.  Marquette is building a $120 million Sports Science complex, while UWM and is serving Crisco sandwiches.  Compare and contrast.

[Sir Lawrence]

And Jeter is fired:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/rob-jeter-fired-as-uwm-mens-basketball-coach-b99689696z1-372401751.html

[keefe]

UWM can't even attract the interest of its students. That school is what it is: a commuter college.

Why the taxpayers should be asked to support the sports program at that school is beyond me.

The Wisconsin system has numerous campuses. As a GE guy I would look at that and see fixed cost leverage opportunity just waiting to happen. Wisconsin should pare down that system to 2-3 campuses total and robust the distance learning for those who won't or can't leave home.

In an age of diminishing resources leaders need to be realistic about what can and should be funded.

 

[GGGG]

UWM can't even attract the interest of its students. That school is what it is: a commuter college.

Why the taxpayers should be asked to support the sports program at that school is beyond me.

The Wisconsin system has numerous campuses. As a GE guy I would look at that and see fixed cost leverage opportunity just waiting to happen. Wisconsin should pare down that system to 2-3 campuses total and robust the distance learning for those who won't or can't leave home.

In an age of diminishing resources leaders need to be realistic about what can and should be funded.

2 to 3 is too small unless your goal is to severely curtail enrollment statewide. 

If you are going to maintain enrollment reasonably at current levels, the only way you can do that is to build a crapload of new residence halls, classrooms, faculty offices, etc. at the selected campuses.  Why do that when you have that infrastructure already existing across the state?

That being said, if you went back in time to build the System from scratch, you would probably have about 6-8 campuses.  13 is too many and campuses like Superior and Parkside could reasonably be closed with their enrollments absorbed by the rest of the System.

[MerrittsMustache]

2 to 3 is too small unless your goal is to severely curtail enrollment statewide. 

If you are going to maintain enrollment reasonably at current levels, the only way you can do that is to build a crapload of new residence halls, classrooms, faculty offices, etc. at the selected campuses.  Why do that when you have that infrastructure already existing across the state?

That being said, if you went back in time to build the System from scratch, you would probably have about 6-8 campuses.  13 is too many and campuses like Superior and Parkside could reasonably be closed with their enrollments absorbed by the rest of the System.

Fittingly, UWM's biggest initiative for 2016 was going to be the creation of a time travel device. Unfortunately, they don't have the resources at this point.

[mu03eng]

2 to 3 is too small unless your goal is to severely curtail enrollment statewide. 

If you are going to maintain enrollment reasonably at current levels, the only way you can do that is to build a crapload of new residence halls, classrooms, faculty offices, etc. at the selected campuses.  Why do that when you have that infrastructure already existing across the state?

That being said, if you went back in time to build the System from scratch, you would probably have about 6-8 campuses.  13 is too many and campuses like Superior and Parkside could reasonably be closed with their enrollments absorbed by the rest of the System.

What the could and should do (maybe they do, not well versed in the UW system) is consolidate classes across campuses remotely so that one professor can teach at multiple campuses for those courses that are redundant.

So Phil 101 should be taught by a single professor at Oskosh, but can be attended by students in Superior or Parkside virtually. So there is a classroom in each location(since it's already there) that students go to and there is local support in the form of professors and/or TAs...but you could save money by not having to pay 7 professors to teach the same courses at the various campuses.

[Badgerhater]

And Jeter is fired:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/rob-jeter-fired-as-uwm-mens-basketball-coach-b99689696z1-372401751.html

From the article: "He has worked under six athletic directors and interim ADs since being hired by Bud Haidet in 2005 to replace Bruce Pearl, who left the Panthers for the University of Tennessee."

How can a department succeed with AD turnover like that?

[GGGG]

How can a department succeed with AD turnover like that?

You can't.  And many of those decisions were made by Lovell.

[warriorchick]

You can't.  And many of those decisions were made by Lovell.

How do you figure that? Mike Lovell was only in charge there for 3 years.

[GGGG]

How do you figure that? Mike Lovell was only in charge there for 3 years.

He was interim when Costello was hired. He brought in the doofus from Ohio state after Costello was let go. He hired Braun.

[warriorchick]

He was interim when Costello was hired. He brought in the doofus from Ohio state after Costello was let go. He hired Braun.

Well. I am no math whiz, but two hires out of six doesn't sound like "most" to me.

[GGGG]

Well. I am no math whiz, but two hires out of six doesn't sound like "most" to me.

Well I'm no reading expert, but I didn't say "most." 

[warriorchick]

Well I'm no reading expert, but I didn't say "most."

My bad.

Let me amend my comment:  Two hiring decisions is not "many".  I am not sure it even qualifies as "several".

[GGGG]

He also brought in the guy from OSU. That is part of the six they mention.

[Badgerhater]

Opinion piece by Gary D'Amato stating that Jeter was hosed.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/jeter-didnt-deserve-ugly-ending-at-uwm-b99689757z1-372494571.html

Essentially the AD has lost the program's biggest booster.

Also mentions that boosters would have covered the CBI costs so the "budget cut" claims are a canard.

[warriorchick]

Opinion piece by Gary D'Amato stating that Jeter was hosed.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/jeter-didnt-deserve-ugly-ending-at-uwm-b99689757z1-372494571.html

Essentially the AD has lost the program's biggest booster.

Also mentions that boosters would have covered the CBI costs so the "budget cut" claims are a canard.

My guess is that the real reason they didn't want the team to play in the CBI is that they had already made the decision to can him and a) they wanted to get a head start on finding his replacement, b) it would have been harder to fire him if they had done well in the tourney or c) both

[keefe]

2 to 3 is too small unless your goal is to severely curtail enrollment statewide. 

If you are going to maintain enrollment reasonably at current levels, the only way you can do that is to build a crapload of new residence halls, classrooms, faculty offices, etc. at the selected campuses.  Why do that when you have that infrastructure already existing across the state?

That being said, if you went back in time to build the System from scratch, you would probably have about 6-8 campuses.  13 is too many and campuses like Superior and Parkside could reasonably be closed with their enrollments absorbed by the rest of the System.

I didn't know the actual number of campuses - I am even more surprised that there are 13 - so I would agree that the system is too large by a half.

Fixed cost leverage is a key metric for both GE and PepsiCo - I know this because I worked in Strat Planning for both. I guarantee that 13 cost centers offers incredible opportunity to reduce costs.

There are many things I don't know about the UW system but while at Marquette I was a part of ASMU and attended some sort of student govt convocation. I recall a guy from UW Stout telling us that he was majoring in Welding Technology. There is a difference between could and should but either would be legitimate inflections in an era of declining resources.

I have always maintained that the US would be better served with the European system of offering both a technical and academic track.  Brits finish up O-Levels then commence an apprenticeship.

In my main project around alt fuels it is apparent that there is a decreasing number of skilled industrial technicians. Because we are on the MSFT campus it is also clear that devs not only don't need a four year degree but wear the lack of one as a badge of honor.

There is an emerging need for systematic technical training that doesn't work within the traditional American model. In the case of coders and devs a form of the British O-Levels and German Realschule would not only prepare kids for careers in Ones ad Zeros but would be something they would actually embrace.

Walk around the MSFT campus and there are far more devs speaking Hindi, Russian, and Mandarin than there are speaking English. 

[keefe]

My guess is that the real reason they didn't want the team to play in the CBI is that they had already made the decision to can him and a) they wanted to get a head start on finding his replacement, b) it would have been harder to fire him if they had done well in the tourney or c) both

Nothing like a freshly stitched banner to hang in the garage to take the sting out of getting fired.

Kinda like the Andes Mint the waiter gives you after a rather poorly done meal. Palate cleaners take many forms other than chocolate.

[warriorchick]

There are many things I don't know about the UW system but while at Marquette I was a part of ASMU and attended some sort of student govt convocation. I recall a guy from UW Stout telling us that he was majoring in Welding Technology. There is a difference between could and should but either would be legitimate inflections in an era of declining resources.

If I have my facts straight, all of the "dash" schools in the UW system started out as junior colleges.  The idea was that you went to those for two years and then transferred to Madison to get your bachelor's degree.  I know that UWM was a 2-year school in the 50's, and I seem to remember that UW-Parkside was more of a community college when I was a student in the '80's.

 At some point they decided to convert most or all of them to 4-year schools.  It looks to me like that was accomplished with varying degrees of success. 

[GGGG]

If I have my facts straight, all of the "dash" schools in the UW system started out as junior colleges.  The idea was that you went to those for two years and then transferred to Madison to get your bachelor's degree.  I know that UWM was a 2-year school in the 50's, and I seem to remember that UW-Parkside was more of a community college when I was a student in the '80's.

 At some point they decided to convert most or all of them to 4-year schools.  It looks to me like that was accomplished with varying degrees of success. 

Not quite true.

UW-Madison was a land grant University.  UW-Green Bay and UW-Parkside were branches of UW-Madison that made up the original University of Wisconsin System.  (Along with all of the current two year schools and the UW Extention.)

All of the other UW schools (minus Stout) started as "normal schools" for teacher preparation.  Back in the day, teachers didn't need bachelor's degrees but only a teaching certificate that took two or three years.  In the 1920s, all of these normal schools changed to "teacher's colleges" because bachelor's degree were now required.  By the 1950s these schools became "Wisconsin State Universities" and were their own stand alone System.

UW-Stout was a private school that offered technical education.  The State bought it and merged it into the Teachers Colleges sometime in the early 1900s.  UWM was actually the merger of a few teacher prep schools but that's neither here nor there.  Fun fact:  UWM was in the conference that is now the WIAC and were known as the "Green Gulls" with colors green and white.

In the early 1970s, the State merged the Wisconsin State System into the UW System.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Opinion piece by Gary D'Amato stating that Jeter was hosed.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/jeter-didnt-deserve-ugly-ending-at-uwm-b99689757z1-372494571.html

Essentially the AD has lost the program's biggest booster.

Also mentions that boosters would have covered the CBI costs so the "budget cut" claims are a canard.

Fran isn't the biggest booster?  Has someone informed him yet?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jester is a good man and class act.  I was lucky to have worked with him when he was on Deane's staff.   


Edit:  My fast typing didn't help me

[mu03eng]

I didn't know the actual number of campuses - I am even more surprised that there are 13 - so I would agree that the system is too large by a half.

Fixed cost leverage is a key metric for both GE and PepsiCo - I know this because I worked in Strat Planning for both. I guarantee that 13 cost centers offers incredible opportunity to reduce costs.

There are many things I don't know about the UW system but while at Marquette I was a part of ASMU and attended some sort of student govt convocation. I recall a guy from UW Stout telling us that he was majoring in Welding Technology. There is a difference between could and should but either would be legitimate inflections in an era of declining resources.

I have always maintained that the US would be better served with the European system of offering both a technical and academic track.  Brits finish up O-Levels then commence an apprenticeship.

In my main project around alt fuels it is apparent that there is a decreasing number of skilled industrial technicians. Because we are on the MSFT campus it is also clear that devs not only don't need a four year degree but wear the lack of one as a badge of honor.

There is an emerging need for systematic technical training that doesn't work within the traditional American model. In the case of coders and devs a form of the British O-Levels and German Realschule would not only prepare kids for careers in Ones ad Zeros but would be something they would actually embrace.

Walk around the MSFT campus and there are far more devs speaking Hindi, Russian, and Mandarin than there are speaking English.

This has largely been my contention for years. Network architecture/infrastructure as well as cyber security don't require 4 year "balanced" degrees with arts and philosophy, etc. Same with coders and developers. CB design doesn't require someone to get an EE, we've just decided it should. I would scale back the 4 year university system within the US and refocus resources to the technical colleges and a technical track within high schools. You don't even have to be particularly smart to do some of these things, just be trained in them.

[mu03eng]

Jester is a good man and class act.  I was lucky to have worked him when he was on Deane's staff.

[warriorchick]

Not quite true.

UW-Madison was a land grant University.  UW-Green Bay and UW-Parkside were branches of UW-Madison that made up the original University of Wisconsin System.  (Along with all of the current two year schools and the UW Extention.)

All of the other UW schools (minus Stout) started as "normal schools" for teacher preparation.  Back in the day, teachers didn't need bachelor's degrees but only a teaching certificate that took two or three years.  In the 1920s, all of these normal schools changed to "teacher's colleges" because bachelor's degree were now required.  By the 1950s these schools became "Wisconsin State Universities" and were their own stand alone System.

UW-Stout was a private school that offered technical education.  The State bought it and merged it into the Teachers Colleges sometime in the early 1900s.  UWM was actually the merger of a few teacher prep schools but that's neither here nor there.  Fun fact:  UWM was in the conference that is now the WIAC and were known as the "Green Gulls" with colors green and white.

In the early 1970s, the State merged the Wisconsin State System into the UW System.

I stand corrected. 

[keefe]

  Fun fact:  UWM was in the conference that is now the WIAC and were known as the "Green Gulls" with colors green and white.

UWM was the "Green Goyim" when Golda Meir was a student there.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL.  I'll fix that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

 Fun fact:  UWM was in the conference that is now the WIAC and were known as the "Green Gulls" with colors green and white.

They've had as many nicknames as MU, it seems.

The Normals, was the first nickname.
The Green Gulls
In the mid 50's became the Cardinals, right around the time we became the Warriors
Mid 60's, colors changes from Cardinal and White, to black and gold = Panthers

[keefe]

The Normals, was the first nickname.

That is really f#cked up, actually.