Why Illinois Is In Trouble - 63,000 Public Employees With $100,000+ Salaries

[Benny B]

No doubt death panels would prove effective in cutting the deficit. Or we could institute and encourage "Ethical Suicide Parlors" like the ones introduced by Vonnegut in "Welcome to the Monkey House".

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you - the amount of money spent to keep people technically "alive" in this country is preposterous. But people (myself included) may still have reservations about some government bureaucrat or arbitrary number (age) determining whether Grandma's life is worth living. Tricky stuff.

I'm not talking about death panels... I'm simply talking about cutting off expensive medical care that seemingly has no quality of life benefit.  Heck, I'll even throw in the stuff for anyone of any age that has minimal extension-of-life benefits, too... take statins for instance... how many of you are shelling out (whether out of pocket or via insurance) thousands of dollars a year because your cholesterol is high not realizing that when you factor in the potential side effects, you're only postponing death by an average of 3-4 days.  Seriously.  http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/9/e007118

[#crickets]

[Sheriff]

Nope.  Not the retirees fault.  The taxpayers didn't live up to their obligations earlier.  They should do so now.

You sound like Mike Madigan.

[Pakuni]

I'm not talking about death panels... I'm simply talking about cutting off expensive medical care that seemingly has no quality of life benefit.  Heck, I'll even throw in the stuff for anyone of any age that has minimal extension-of-life benefits, too... take statins for instance... how many of you are shelling out (whether out of pocket or via insurance) thousands of dollars a year because your cholesterol is high not realizing that when you factor in the potential side effects, you're only postponing death by an average of 3-4 days.  Seriously.  http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/9/e007118

[#crickets]

You;re right, butt hat kind of logic has no chance against a drug industry (BIG PHARMA!) that spends literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year - and that's just what they report - ensuring that the government will continue paying for such drugs, and God knows how much more "persuading" doctors to keep prescribing it.
Not to mention the billions they spend annually on advertising that convinces people they need lots of medication to cure their high cholesterol, acid reflux, aching joints and limp boners.

[Spotcheck Billy]

You;re right, butt hat kind of logic has no chance against a drug industry (BIG PHARMA!) that spends literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year - and that's just what they report - ensuring that the government will continue paying for such drugs, and God knows how much more "persuading" doctors to keep prescribing it.
Not to mention the billions they spend annually on advertising that convinces people they need lots of medication to cure their high cholesterol, acid reflux, aching joints and limp boners.

I think Carlin called that an oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp.

[Benny B]

You;re right, butt hat kind of logic has no chance against a drug industry (BIG PHARMA!) that spends literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year - and that's just what they report - ensuring that the government will continue paying for such drugs, and God knows how much more "persuading" doctors to keep prescribing it.
Not to mention the billions they spend annually on advertising that convinces people they need lots of medication to cure their high cholesterol, acid reflux, aching joints and limp boners.

While I'm no stranger to being told "you're right," I think that's the first time someone's called me a butt hat.

[Lennys Tap]

Not to mention the billions they spend annually on advertising that convinces people they need lots of medication to cure their high cholesterol, acid reflux, aching joints and limp boners.

I've got nothing against anyone spending money advertising and trying to convince people to buy stuff for their aching joints (or their limp ones). People want drugs they don't "need" because they want to get pregnant, not get pregnant, get a boner or soothe aching joints? Fine. Get a prescription and buy them. Stuff people "want" isn't supposed to be what insurance is all about.

[mu-rara]

Interesting chart, but I need more information to know if it really supports what you're saying about the Chicago market.
For example, how does this compare with other similar locales (i.e. Midwestern metropolitan markets)? Let's see the same charts for Milwaukee, Detroit, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, St. Louis, etc. Let's see the same chart for national home sales.

Side note: I've checked a few already and, not surprisingly, they look similar.
Here's Milwaukee:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS33340Q#0

Here's Indy:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ATNHPIUS26900Q

Here, just for giggles, is Phoenix:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PHXRNSA#0

As you can see, Chicago is hardly unique.

Also, I think it's worth noting that the disparity between home sale prices and CPI in Chicago - and in the other markets I've looked at - is the result of a big decline in housing sales between 2010-12. In the 5+ years since, home values have easily outpaced the CPI, including last year, in which values rose nearly three times the rate of inflation.
So, that seems to run contrary to your argument that home values are plummeting as a result of Illinois' fiscal crisis. As the crisis has worsened over the last 3-4 years, the housing market has markedly improved.

Rahm, is that you?

[Pakuni]

While I'm no stranger to being told "you're right," I think that's the first time someone's called me a butt hat.

Maybe Scoop censored what I intended?

[Pakuni]

I've got nothing against anyone spending money advertising and trying to convince people to buy stuff for their aching joints (or their limp ones). People want drugs they don't "need" because they want to get pregnant, not get pregnant, get a boner or soothe aching joints? Fine. Get a prescription and buy them. Stuff people "want" isn't supposed to be what insurance is all about.

I've got nothing against truthful advertising.
I've got lots against the medical industrial complex loading people up on drugs they don't need. Among many other negative consequences, it's contributed to an epidemic of opiate addiction.

[Pakuni]

Rahm, is that you?

Yes, Donald, it's me.

[dgies9156]

My view on why Illinois has problems:

1) We have too much government. This is not liberal/conservative debate over governmental role. This is simply we have too many units of government and power is too diffused. Illinois has more units of local government than any other state in the union. To give you an idea how bad it is, I have 21 agencies collecting off my property tax. That's right, 21! Our little suburb of 20,000 persons is touched by five separate school districts, one of which has only one school. Pat Quinn said something needed to happen about this. Mike Madigan politically garroted him and threatened to do it for real if Quinn ever brought the matter up again. He didn't. These agencies prove useful for parking patronage workers, ensuring loyalty and giving jobs to your supporters.

2) We hate income taxes. OK, we just raised them. But even the goofiest legislator knows the legend of Dick Ogilvie. He was governor who signed into law Illinois' first income tax in 1971. In in 1970 and out in 1972, courtesy of Dan Walker. Every governor since has dodged tax increases. If you watched Madigan in the latest budget fight, he was trying to stick Governor Rauner with the income tax. Didn't work but he did manage to get Republicans to override the governor, which means he has a political edge to his next fight, which will be a doozie.

3) We Love Corruption. We don't know any other way down here. We really don't. In Tennessee, when Governor Ray Blanton was sent to prison for selling prison pardons, corruption was top down and could be cleaned up. In Illinois, it is "bottom's up." It permeates everything we do and brings an inefficiency to government on scale no where else replicated. We've sent Governors, Attorneys General, Chicago Aldermen, Judges, Private Attorneys, you name its galore to prison. And it never stops. Hell, there's one family of Chicago aldermen where father and son both went to prison for accepting zoning bribes 20 years apart.

4) We Can't Say No. We spend money like we have it.

5) Our Government is Our Employer of First Resort. Our tax system likely was originally designed to make industry pay for state operations. As industrym closed, scaled back and moved, somebody had to pick up the burden. The state and city, I'm guessing, hired as much as they could, but couldn't find a way to pay for it. So the boomers sent the bill to the Millennials.

The sad thing is we should be driving the Midwest economy. Our natural resources, highly educated workforce, transportation system and economic support is the best in the region and one of the best in the nation. And yet we have squandered it. Badly.

[Pakuni]

My view on why Illinois has problems:

1) We have too much government. This is not liberal/conservative debate over governmental role. This is simply we have too many units of government and power is too diffused. Illinois has more units of local government than any other state in the union. To give you an idea how bad it is, I have 21 agencies collecting off my property tax. That's right, 21! Our little suburb of 20,000 persons is touched by five separate school districts, one of which has only one school. Pat Quinn said something needed to happen about this. Mike Madigan politically garroted him and threatened to do it for real if Quinn ever brought the matter up again. He didn't. These agencies prove useful for parking patronage workers, ensuring loyalty and giving jobs to your supporters.

2) We hate income taxes. OK, we just raised them. But even the goofiest legislator knows the legend of Dick Ogilvie. He was governor who signed into law Illinois' first income tax in 1971. In in 1970 and out in 1972, courtesy of Dan Walker. Every governor since has dodged tax increases. If you watched Madigan in the latest budget fight, he was trying to stick Governor Rauner with the income tax. Didn't work but he did manage to get Republicans to override the governor, which means he has a political edge to his next fight, which will be a doozie.

3) We Love Corruption. We don't know any other way down here. We really don't. In Tennessee, when Governor Ray Blanton was sent to prison for selling prison pardons, corruption was top down and could be cleaned up. In Illinois, it is "bottom's up." It permeates everything we do and brings an inefficiency to government on scale no where else replicated. We've sent Governors, Attorneys General, Chicago Aldermen, Judges, Private Attorneys, you name its galore to prison. And it never stops. Hell, there's one family of Chicago aldermen where father and son both went to prison for accepting zoning bribes 20 years apart.

4) We Can't Say No. We spend money like we have it.

5) Our Government is Our Employer of First Resort. Our tax system likely was originally designed to make industry pay for state operations. As industrym closed, scaled back and moved, somebody had to pick up the burden. The state and city, I'm guessing, hired as much as they could, but couldn't find a way to pay for it. So the boomers sent the bill to the Millennials.

The sad thing is we should be driving the Midwest economy. Our natural resources, highly educated workforce, transportation system and economic support is the best in the region and one of the best in the nation. And yet we have squandered it. Badly.

This is really excellent, especially regarding points 1-4.
Point 5, I'm less sure about. And your conclusion is spot on.
Surprisingly, when it comes to state and local employees per capita, Illinois ranks 44th in the nation, at 205 per 10,000 residents.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/states-most-government-workers-public-employees-by-job-type.html

[GGGG]

Some of this, like the residency requirements to get 100% were actually in the pension reform passed in 2013 by the state.  But the courts ruled that was unconstitutional because article 8 says you can never change these rules. 

I show article 8 in a post above and the court was correct in its interpretation.

The current system cannot be sustained and will blow up.  This happens in one of three ways.

1. Tax the hell out of the state. Taxpayers leave, dependent people cannot.  The state becomes a giant Detroit. The state is well on its way in this regard as it is losing population (read taxpayers) faster than any other state in the country.  25% of its population is on Medicaid already.

2. Courts rule the state has to pay everyone it owes money too.  That is $15 billion now and growing.  It can no longer prioritize payments like it currently does. The state cannot pay everyone so no one gets paid.  The courts decided who gets partial payments.  In other words, the courts take over running the state.  This is bankruptcy without using the word.  It is messy and ugly.

3. Taxpayers had enough and elect a Walker type and a legislator that agrees with him.  He slashes and burns all the spending and pensions and cut taxes.  He does this via constitutional amendments, that pass.  Unstable lefties crap on the floor of the state capital, Chicago Democrats flee to Milwaukee to orchestrate a resistance movement, public unions strike and the cops stop policing and the trash does not get picked up.  A recall attempt is tried.  It's ugly, messy and eventually works.  But it restores sanity and reasonable/normal levels of spending and taxes.

My bet is on #3.  Again that will not be easy.

Regarding #3, Wisconsin's problem was a relatively small budget deficit, mostly as a result of Thompson, McCallum and Doyle not wanting to make difficult decisions and using one-time money to fix biannual budgets. 

The pension system was fully funded, or mostly so, when Walker took office.  You really can't simply replicate what he did and expect it to work in Illinois

[dgies9156]

This is really excellent, especially regarding points 1-4.
Point 5, I'm less sure about. And your conclusion is spot on.
Surprisingly, when it comes to state and local employees per capita, Illinois ranks 44th in the nation, at 205 per 10,000 residents.

What's unclear is how you define state and local employees. Do you just catch state government, counties and cities? Or do you catch the laberenth of special districts that cover Illinois like the dew?

With all the government we have and the myriad of patronage, we can't possibly be 44th!

[warriorchick]

What's unclear is how you define state and local employees. Do you just catch state government, counties and cities? Or do you catch the laberenth of special districts that cover Illinois like the dew?

With all the government we have and the myriad of patronage, we can't possibly be 44th!

Yeah, my tax bill is a doozy. I have a separate line item for a Mosquito Abatement district. WTF?

And I pay property tax to support the DuPage County Airport. Aren't airports supposed to be revenue sources? Not ours. So I subsidize all the rich guys who land their private planes there and hang out in the ultra swanky pilot's lounge. And let's not forget the golf course they built on airport property that was hemorrhaging money because no one was playing on it. Their solution to make it profitable? It was to - wait for it - increase the greens fees. Because the best way to get more business is to raise your prices.

[tower912]

You are not alone regarding too many government officials and fiefdoms.    My county has more elected officials than congress. 

[jsglow]

[Pakuni]

What's unclear is how you define state and local employees. Do you just catch state government, counties and cities? Or do you catch the laberenth of special districts that cover Illinois like the dew?

With all the government we have and the myriad of patronage, we can't possibly be 44th!

Well, it's not how I define it, it's how the U.S. Census defines it.

I agree that the excessive layers/numbers of local governments in Illinois need to be consolidated, but at the end of the day, it won't make a huge difference in the number of local government workers.
There's no need for a one-school district in the suburbs, but when you fold that district into a larger neighboring district, you're still going to need the same teachers, bus drivers, custodians, etc. You'll rid yourself of some overhead and duplicated specialist/administrative posts, but that's a relatively small number compared to the total.
If you get rid of townships - and Illinois should - you still need employees to pave and plow the townships' roads, drive the senior bus, distribute General Assistance, etc. They'll just become county employees instead of township employees. Again, you'll get rid of some administrators and the like, but relatively speaking, not a huge number.

[Pakuni]

Yeah, my tax bill is a doozy. I have a separate line item for a Mosquito Abatement district. WTF?

And I pay property tax to support the DuPage County Airport. Aren't airports supposed to be revenue sources? Not ours. So I subsidize all the rich guys who land their private planes there and hang out in the ultra swanky pilot's lounge. And let's not forget the golf course they built on airport property that was hemorrhaging money because no one was playing on it. Their solution to make it profitable? It was to - wait for it - increase the greens fees. Because the best way to get more business is to raise your prices.

Oh, gosh no. The large majority of airports lose money. But they're potentially outstanding as engines of economic activity. So while the airport itself loses money, it creates prosperity all around it.
Golf courses, on the other hand, are money pits.

[dgies9156]

Yeah, my tax bill is a doozy. I have a separate line item for a Mosquito Abatement district. WTF?

And I pay property tax to support the DuPage County Airport. Aren't airports supposed to be revenue sources? Not ours. So I subsidize all the rich guys who land their private planes there and hang out in the ultra swanky pilot's lounge. And let's not forget the golf course they built on airport property that was hemorrhaging money because no one was playing on it. Their solution to make it profitable? It was to - wait for it - increase the greens fees. Because the best way to get more business is to raise your prices.

I feel your pain. We used to live in Naperville.

Now we have the Lake County mosquito abatement district and the Waukegan Airport on our tax bill as well.

Republicans can spend big dollars on make work projects just as easy as Democrats can.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I feel your pain. We used to live in Naperville.

Now we have the Lake County mosquito abatement district and the Waukegan Airport on our tax bill as well.

Republicans can spend big dollars on make work projects just as easy as Democrats can.

Illinois is a Home Rule State. Assert your local power.

[dgies9156]

Illinois is a Home Rule State. Assert your local power.

Keep in mind, we did.

We wanted term limits. Friends of Mike Madigan struck the initiative down.

We wanted an independent commission to draw legislative districts too. Like Iowa. Friends of Mike Madigan went to a friendly judge and got that one struck down too.

Doesn't matter what we do. When Friends of Mike Madigan control the legislative and judiciary branches, we're in trouble. When Friends of Mike Madigan are in patronage positions across the state, we're in trouble.

There is a difference between what the law says and how a state operates. We have elections every two years. So did the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. Same result!

[Lennys Tap]

I've got nothing against truthful advertising.
I've got lots against the medical industrial complex loading people up on drugs they don't need. Among many other negative consequences, it's contributed to an epidemic of opiate addiction.

Again, people don't need to get boners, pain relief, pregnant or not pregnant. They want to. So they load themselves up on these drugs they don't need. As far as opiate addiction is concerned, the people who get hooked using the drugs as prescribed have my sympathy. The ones who get scrips for the purpose of getting high? Not so much.