How Bad Are The Chicago Bears?

[Tugg Speedman]

The bears suffered their first shutout since 2002.

Dating back to last year, the bears are on an eight game losing that ties a franchise record.  Next week they have to beat a now good Raiders team at home to not set a new mark.

The Bears ran only two plays in Seattle territory.

The Bears ran 10 offensive series and punted on all 10.  That is the first time since 1980 that an NFL team punted at the end of every offensive series.

Now if you’re still not sure the bears are the worst team in the draft and destine to get the first pick in the draft, the next story will seal it … the bears punter is now day-to-day with a sprained knee from overuse!  I kid you not, they actually overused their punter and he is now injured!

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/9/28/9409391/bears-punter-pat-odonnell-injury-sprained-knee
Bears punter punted so many times he sprained his knee
By Adam Stites @AdamBCC on Sep 28, 2015, 12:57p

Pat O'Donnell punted 10 times on Sunday and now he's day-to-day with a knee sprain.
Chicago Bears punter Pat O'Donnell was called on to punt after every single one of his team's drives on Sunday and now has a sprained knee, according to Rand Getlin of NFL Network.

O'Donnell is "day-to-day" with the knee injury after punting 10 times in a Week 3 game against the Seattle Seahawks. The Bears finished the game with seven first downs, but never scored in the 26-0 loss and instead punted on every drive.

While that means the Bears were able to avoid a turnover with Jimmy Clausen under center, it also means the team was never even close enough to warrant a field goal attempt or a shot at going for a fourth down conversion.

O'Donnell didn't approach the record for punts or punting yards in a game as a punter has been called on 11 or more times in 30 different instances. The record for punts is held by Leo Araguz of the Oakland Raiders, who was called on 16 times in a 7-6 victory over the San Diego Chargers in 1998, racking up 709 total yards of punting. The opposite punter in that game, Darren Bennett of the Chargers, punted 11 times for 522 yards.

In the first week of the season, O'Donnell was called on just once for the Bears in a 31-23 loss to the Green Bay Packers. In Week 2, he punted five times against the Arizona Cardinals.

[rocky_warrior]

I'm a Bears fan, and they're bad. 

Maybe you missed this article...
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/fire-sale-starting--chicago-bears-trade-jared-allen-to-the-carolina-panthers-204656381.html

I do have a bit of faith in (John) Fox, but Cutlers contract is the poison pill for the bears.  I don't see any way around them keeping him through the '17-18 season (to meet the $54MM guarantee).  Of course, with Fox being crafty, that might be a good year and they might keep him through the contract.  Otherwise,Fox and Cutler are gone with a new coach and new QB to build around again.  Too bad for Fox really....he'll make his money, and he'll build a decent team around Cutler, but I don't know if he'll be able to survive after that season with Cutler leading the charge.

[Tugg Speedman]

As I said above, they are on-track to have the first pick in the draft. 

Will they pick Connor Cook (MSU), Jared Goff (Cal) or whoever is the top QB this year, cut Cutler and start over.

While the circumstances are a bit different, the Packers had the courage to get rid of Favre for Rodgers.  The Colts had the courage to get rid of Manning for Luck.

Do the bears have the courage to get rid of Cutler for the best QB in college?

[jsglow]

As I said above, they are on-track to have the first pick in the draft. 

Will they pick Connor Cook (MSU), Jared Goff (Cal) or whoever is the top QB this year, cut Cutler and start over.

While the circumstances are a bit different, the Packers had the courage to get rid of Favre for Rodgers.  The Colts had the courage to get rid of Manning for Luck.

Do the bears have the courage to get rid of Cutler for the best QB in college?

The Packers situation was somewhat different.  Rodgers had been in the system for 3 years and was approaching the final year of his rookie contract.  Ted Thompson knew what he had (although the public hadn't seen much of it yet).  And he endured the wrath of the fans when Favre un-retired.

Funny.  The conversation has shifted around the NFL from 'Is Rodgers the best player in the league today to is Rodgers the best player in the league ever?'  I'm not ready to go there but I do think it's clear that he's on pace for his third MVP right now.  I also have a sense that the Packers know that the 'iron is hot'.  It's time to win another Superbowl.  Getting and staying healthy is the key.

Good luck to the Bears.  Seriously.  John Fox has them headed in the right direction.  But they're a bad team right now.  It'll take a few years.

[NavinRJohnson]

John Fox has them headed in the right direction.  But they're a bad team right now.  It'll take a few years.

That's the conclusion everyone, myself included, seems inclined to draw, but I have seen little actual evidence of that. Granted, the roster is a complete disaster, but all the excitement after week one, about how they looked like a real, professional football team, has been completely absent the past couple weeks. If I'm being honest, and granted it is only three games into year one, I see little from a personel or coaching standpoint that indicates they are headed in the right direction.

Really gonna come down to next year's number 1 pick/the choices they make at QB. If they get Goff, as an example, he HAS TO work out. If he doesn't, they're screwed all over again. They've just put themselves in a terrible position.

[MerrittsMustache]

The Bears ran 10 offensive series and punted on all 10.  That is the first time since 1980 that an NFL team punted at the end of every offensive series.

At least they didn't turn the ball over!

[rocket surgeon]

bad news...

whoever decided it was a good idea to re-sign cutler to $$$ extension-that put them back 3-5 years.  and that is providing they can find and train an adequate quarterback.  how many have they gone thru since the brett favre era began?  i know it's a lot, but...

[jsglow]

That's the conclusion everyone, myself included, seems inclined to draw, but I have seen little actual evidence of that. Granted, the roster is a complete disaster, but all the excitement after week one, about how they looked like a real, professional football team, has been completely absent the past couple weeks. If I'm being honest, and granted it is only three games into year one, I see little from a personel or coaching standpoint that indicates they are headed in the right direction.

Really gonna come down to next year's number 1 pick/the choices they make at QB. If they get Goff, as an example, he HAS TO work out. If he doesn't, they're screwed all over again. They've just put themselves in a terrible position.

I disagree.  And remember that I'm a Packer fan so I think I can be objective.  They played Seattle very solidly for the first half.  Remember, the Bears have NO QB at the moment and NO receivers because of injury.  They were not going to be able to move the ball whatsoever with the available personnel.  This is never about one player and it's not about a single 1st round pick next year.  You simply can't assume that next year's 1st is the next coming of ARodg.

Let me see if I can draw a comparison.  The 46th man on the Packers roster last night was LB Joe Thomas, an undrafted 2014 FA.  While he's 'our guy', we had to let him go in final cuts this year after stashing him on IR last year.  For reasons unknown (frustration?), he made the decision to head to the Dallas PS.  An injury to second string DL Boyd allowed Ted to make a call and all of a sudden Thomas is back, starting in the dime, and contributing effectively in his first game on MNF.  Right now the Bears have almost no players worth keeping.  And the Packers have effective players stashed on OTHER teams practice squads.  The Packers are literally 70 players deep while the Bears can count maybe 20.  No coach in the world can compensate for that.   

[jsglow]

bad news...

whoever decided it was a good idea to re-sign cutler to $$$ extension-that put them back 3-5 years.  and that is providing they can find and train an adequate quarterback.  how many have they gone thru since the brett favre era began?  i know it's a lot, but...

100% true.  But Jay isn't the only problem.  The Bears' cupboard is bare.

[Tugg Speedman]

Saying they should also trade Forte and Alshon Jeffrey too. 

With Jared Allen gone, Bears should listen to offers for Matt Forte

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago-bears/post/_/id/4700153/with-jared-allen-trade-complete-bears-should-listen-to-offers-for-matt-forte-and-alshon-jeffery

LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- Jared Allen's sudden departure to Carolina is a sign the Chicago Bears are open for business.

With almost zero shot of making the playoffs, the Bears (0-3) need to be active in advance of the NFL's Nov. 3 trade deadline.

Don't expect a fire sale. That's not how it usually works in professional football. But the Bears have a pair of high-profile offensive players to shop: Matt Forte and Alshon Jeffery. Both are scheduled to be free agents after this season.

Forte, 29, became expendable the moment in January when general manager Ryan Pace rebuffed his request for a new contract. A two-time Pro Bowl selection, Forte is an effective, all-purpose back who can carry the load on offense. Forte would be a welcome addition to any contender that suffers a key injury at running back prior to the deadline.

Unless the Bears are secretly intent on re-signing Forte, they have to explore all trade options.

That line of thinking extends to Jeffery, who missed the past two weeks with a hamstring injury. Jeffery is different than Forte. The 25-year-old former Pro Bowl wide receiver is entering the prime of his career.

Why listen to trade offers for him? Because there's no guarantee Jeffery wants to re-sign with the Bears in the offseason. He probably wants to test the market. Imagine Jeffery and Brandon Marshall reuniting in New York. You never know. Besides, Jeffery probably isn't a guy to slap with the franchise tag just to keep him around for another year.

Let's be clear: The Bears are rebuilding the roster. Under no circumstances can teams in the middle of a rebuild afford to overpay for a player in free agency. That throws the whole plan out of whack.

In theory, 2015 first-round pick Kevin White has the physical skills to play Jeffery's role next year. At tailback, the club invested a fourth-round pick in Jeremy Langford to replace Forte in the future. The Bears have protected themselves at both positions -- just as long as White can successfully recover from the stress fracture in his ankle.

The Bears should also gauge interest in Jay Cutler and Martellus Bennett. Remember, the Bears engaged in trade talks with the Tennessee Titans regarding Cutler prior to the draft. The discussions went nowhere, reportedly because of Cutler's hefty contract, but he is definitely not untouchable. The same holds true with Bennett, who missed the offseason program due to a contract dispute. Bennett still wants new money from someone next year.

[MerrittsMustache]

I disagree.  And remember that I'm a Packer fan so I think I can be objective.  They played Seattle very solidly for the first half.  Remember, the Bears have NO QB at the moment and NO receivers because of injury.  They were not going to be able to move the ball whatsoever with the available personnel.  This is never about one player and it's not about a single 1st round pick next year.  You simply can't assume that next year's 1st is the next coming of ARodg.

Agreed. The Bears' current coaching staff is significantly better than the last couple of seasons. Last year, there was mass confusion on both sides of the ball, TOs being wasted to open possessions, defenders playing different defenses on the same play, opposing DBs stating postgame that they knew what plays were coming, etc. This season, Gase understands that ball control needs to be a priority and they're doing a decent job of that. Defensively, players are at least in the right position - they just don't have anyone who can make plays. Gone are the massive blown coverages and huge holes in the D-line. Unfortunately, coaching can't make up for an immense lack of talent. Most of the Bears' defensive starters should be special teamers/back-ups, while most of the special teamers should be on practice squads somewhere. The lack of talent filters down throughout the entire roster.

Let me see if I can draw a comparison.  The 46th man on the Packers roster last night was LB Joe Thomas, an undrafted 2014 FA.  While he's 'our guy', we had to let him go in final cuts this year after stashing him on IR last year.  For reasons unknown (frustration?), he made the decision to head to the Dallas PS.  An injury to second string DL Boyd allowed Ted to make a call and all of a sudden Thomas is back, starting in the dime, and contributing effectively in his first game on MNF.  Right now the Bears have almost no players worth keeping.  And the Packers have effective players stashed on OTHER teams practice squads.  The Packers are literally 70 players deep while the Bears can count maybe 20.  No coach in the world can compensate for that.

One major advantage that GB has over most NFL teams is consistency. Quite a few teams would have bailed on McCarthy after the 6-10 season but TT didn't and it's paid off. The Packers have basically run the same offensive system since 2006 and the same defensive system since 2009. The coaches and FO know the systems in and out, they know who can fit into the systems, who knows the systems and they can confidently plug them in. In addition, they draft well and they draft players who fit with their overall scheme. They've built enough depth that, like you point out, they cut players who have the ability to be contributors. For all we know, Joe Thomas could be the best LB on the Bears's roster, but he was a cast-off for a team with depth.

Over the course of 4 seasons, the Bears have had 3 different GMs and have gone from Lovie's Cover-2 defense to Tucker's WTF defense to Fangio's 3-4 defense. Those are all very different systems. In 7 seasons, they've also gone from Ron Turner to Mike Martz to Mike Tice to Marc Trestman to Adam Gase, all of whom ran vastly different systems. There's been no consistency. Under Lovie, the Bears drafted poorly but, defensively, they had veteran players who'd been in the system long enough and knew it well enough to still be very effective players. There's a reason why the Bears are bringing in veterans like Eddie Royal, Tracy Porter and Mitch Unrein - they know the systems. Players still have to make plays but having multiple years' experience in a system is a HUGE and underrated benefit.

[GGGG]

Also the stat that was presented last on MNF.  Of the Packers 53 players, only three of them have been on another team's regular season roster.  (And the Packers drafted and developed one of those guys - James Jones.)  That is really an incredible statistic.  It shows how good they are at identifying and coaching up talent.  And yes the scheme consistency matters.

[brandx]

As I said above, they are on-track to have the first pick in the draft. 

Will they pick Connor Cook (MSU), Jared Goff (Cal) or whoever is the top QB this year, cut Cutler and start over.

While the circumstances are a bit different, the Packers had the courage to get rid of Favre for Rodgers.  The Colts had the courage to get rid of Manning for Luck.

Do the bears have the courage to get rid of Cutler for the best QB in college?

Unless Cutler is out for a long time, they will not get the 1st pick. They just played the 3 best teams in the NFC.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Unless Cutler is out for a long time, they will not get the 1st pick. They just played the 3 best teams in the NFC.

but what effect will these trades have on locker room morale?

[MerrittsMustache]

but what effect will these trades have on locker room morale?

None.

If they trade Forte or Jeffrey, it might have an effect. Trading a past-his-prime DE who was playing out of position and a back-up LB will have none.

[GOO]

If the bears are in the top 5, they probably should and probably will take a QB.  However, the last thing they should do is throw a rookie QB into the fire on a poor team.  Let him learn for a year.  That ties an unreasonable amount up at the QB stop for one or two years, but maybe worth it.

Cutler isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.  If he was surrounded by a solid team, on defense and offense, he could be serviceable.  Was McMahon better?  I'd say no, but he had a stellar D and just had to manage the game.   If you put a rookie QB in place of Cutler on this team, the rookie would probably have worse results and then you'd have to worry about injury and stunted long term development. 

Maybe I'm way off, and I'm sure there are a lot of studies that I'm not aware of, but it seems to me that too may rookie QB's are thrown to the wolves on less than solid teams and either sink or swim.  Some may excel, but the risk is permanently stunting the development of a QB that would excel if gradually brought into the mix.  I can't imagine being a rookie QB, with the game moving too fast, not having a full grasp of the offense, and being on a bad team with limited weapons and a poor O line.  Recipe for post traumatic stress and potential stunted development/low confidence.

A rookie QB that can pull the ball in and run, seems like the type that most likely can excel in that first year.  Just the ability to run if they feel pressure and don't know the offense well enough or it it moves to fast to check down for open receivers.  If they don't get hurt doing so.  The guys that develop into true QB's with the patience and ability to check down to that 3rd and 4th receiver, without just tucking and running, is probably the type of QB that you want to develop for the long term.

As an old time Packer fan, look what happened to Lynn Dickey when he was forced to drop back and pass, and get hit over and over... a shell of a QB at the end.  And he was a veteran. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Unless Cutler is out for a long time, they will not get the 1st pick. They just played the 3 best teams in the NFC.

Not quite but close enough ...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings

They played #2, #3 and #7 so far.

BUT ... the bears are dead last in this week's power rankings.

[Tugg Speedman]

Regarding Cutler ...

Is he better or worse than Romo (who I think is the closest comparison to him)?

[Tugg Speedman]

If the bears are in the top 5, they probably should and probably will take a QB.  However, the last thing they should do is throw a rookie QB into the fire on a poor team.  Let him learn for a year.  That ties an unreasonable amount up at the QB stop for one or two years, but maybe worth it.

Cutler isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.  If he was surrounded by a solid team, on defense and offense, he could be serviceable.  Was McMahon better?  I'd say no, but he had a stellar D and just had to manage the game.   If you put a rookie QB in place of Cutler on this team, the rookie would probably have worse results and then you'd have to worry about injury and stunted long term development. 

Maybe I'm way off, and I'm sure there are a lot of studies that I'm not aware of, but it seems to me that too may rookie QB's are thrown to the wolves on less than solid teams and either sink or swim.  Some may excel, but the risk is permanently stunting the development of a QB that would excel if gradually brought into the mix.  I can't imagine being a rookie QB, with the game moving too fast, not having a full grasp of the offense, and being on a bad team with limited weapons and a poor O line.  Recipe for post traumatic stress and potential stunted development/low confidence.

You mean like RG III who thought he was as invincible as his glowing media adulation, so he thought he was bullet proof and put his head down to get first downs and then spent the next two years hurt?

If he learned the nuisances of the game, like sliding and avoiding the hit, he might still be playing.

[rocket surgeon]

If the bears are in the top 5, they probably should and probably will take a QB.  However, the last thing they should do is throw a rookie QB into the fire on a poor team.  Let him learn for a year.  That ties an unreasonable amount up at the QB stop for one or two years, but maybe worth it.

Cutler isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.  If he was surrounded by a solid team, on defense and offense, he could be serviceable.  Was McMahon better?  I'd say no, but he had a stellar D and just had to manage the game.   If you put a rookie QB in place of Cutler on this team, the rookie would probably have worse results and then you'd have to worry about injury and stunted long term development. 

Maybe I'm way off, and I'm sure there are a lot of studies that I'm not aware of, but it seems to me that too may rookie QB's are thrown to the wolves on less than solid teams and either sink or swim.  Some may excel, but the risk is permanently stunting the development of a QB that would excel if gradually brought into the mix.  I can't imagine being a rookie QB, with the game moving too fast, not having a full grasp of the offense, and being on a bad team with limited weapons and a poor O line.  Recipe for post traumatic stress and potential stunted development/low confidence.

A rookie QB that can pull the ball in and run, seems like the type that most likely can excel in that first year.  Just the ability to run if they feel pressure and don't know the offense well enough or it it moves to fast to check down for open receivers.  If they don't get hurt doing so.  The guys that develop into true QB's with the patience and ability to check down to that 3rd and 4th receiver, without just tucking and running, is probably the type of QB that you want to develop for the long term.

As an old time Packer fan, look what happened to Lynn Dickey when he was forced to drop back and pass, and get hit over and over... a shell of a QB at the end.  And he was a veteran.

right on GOO-
both favre and rodgers did their share of clipboard holding and that turned out pretty good

as for paying cutler so much-i'll tell ya, when cutler was down 2 years ago, josh mccown filled in pretty good and he actually scared me more than cutler.  mccown threw a ball very similar to rodgers, soft lasers that the players seemed to adapt well to.  i know, mccown went on to have a bad year at tampa and now is ?? but i think he was more comfortable with the bears offense and coaches??  oh well...

hopefully cutler has a few years left in him as a bear for our sake anyway

[chapman]

Sun Dec. 6   San Francisco @ Chicago  may be for the first pick in the draft.

Thanks, Jed York.   

[brandx]

Not quite but close enough ...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings

They played #2, #3 and #7 so far.

BUT ... the bears are dead last in this week's power rankings.

Read my post - I said the 3 best teams in the NFC - not the NFL.

[brandx]

Regarding Cutler ...

Is he better or worse than Romo (who I think is the closest comparison to him)?

Really - no comparison at all.

Romo is top 10. Jay may be top 20.

[Tugg Speedman]

Read my post - I said the 3 best teams in the NFC - not the NFL.

The have to Raiders at home this weekend.

#21 on the power rankings.

Lose this and they are getting the #1 pick.

[jsglow]

Agreed. The Bears' current coaching staff is significantly better than the last couple of seasons. Last year, there was mass confusion on both sides of the ball, TOs being wasted to open possessions, defenders playing different defenses on the same play, opposing DBs stating postgame that they knew what plays were coming, etc. This season, Gase understands that ball control needs to be a priority and they're doing a decent job of that. Defensively, players are at least in the right position - they just don't have anyone who can make plays. Gone are the massive blown coverages and huge holes in the D-line. Unfortunately, coaching can't make up for an immense lack of talent. Most of the Bears' defensive starters should be special teamers/back-ups, while most of the special teamers should be on practice squads somewhere. The lack of talent filters down throughout the entire roster.


One major advantage that GB has over most NFL teams is consistency. Quite a few teams would have bailed on McCarthy after the 6-10 season but TT didn't and it's paid off. The Packers have basically run the same offensive system since 2006 and the same defensive system since 2009. The coaches and FO know the systems in and out, they know who can fit into the systems, who knows the systems and they can confidently plug them in. In addition, they draft well and they draft players who fit with their overall scheme. They've built enough depth that, like you point out, they cut players who have the ability to be contributors. For all we know, Joe Thomas could be the best LB on the Bears's roster, but he was a cast-off for a team with depth.

Over the course of 4 seasons, the Bears have had 3 different GMs and have gone from Lovie's Cover-2 defense to Tucker's WTF defense to Fangio's 3-4 defense. Those are all very different systems. In 7 seasons, they've also gone from Ron Turner to Mike Martz to Mike Tice to Marc Trestman to Adam Gase, all of whom ran vastly different systems. There's been no consistency. Under Lovie, the Bears drafted poorly but, defensively, they had veteran players who'd been in the system long enough and knew it well enough to still be very effective players. There's a reason why the Bears are bringing in veterans like Eddie Royal, Tracy Porter and Mitch Unrein - they know the systems. Players still have to make plays but having multiple years' experience in a system is a HUGE and underrated benefit.

Absolutely correct. Great analysis.

[jsglow]

Also the stat that was presented last on MNF.  Of the Packers 53 players, only three of them have been on another team's regular season roster.  (And the Packers drafted and developed one of those guys - James Jones.)  That is really an incredible statistic.  It shows how good they are at identifying and coaching up talent.  And yes the scheme consistency matters.

Actually 2. Kuhn is a Packer except for a cup of coffee with the Steelers.  Only Peppers is imported right now.  Pretty special.

Some guys out there criticize Ted for reasons I can't grasp.  I guess it can be argued that he could be more willing to 'plug in' in an emergency but the Packers are regularly in a position to make SB runs.  I think it can be argued that two years in a row that was partially derailed by Rodgers injuries.  Let's hope he stays clean all year this time.

[MerrittsMustache]

If the bears are in the top 5, they probably should and probably will take a QB.  However, the last thing they should do is throw a rookie QB into the fire on a poor team.  Let him learn for a year.  That ties an unreasonable amount up at the QB stop for one or two years, but maybe worth it.

Cutler isn't great, but he isn't terrible either.  If he was surrounded by a solid team, on defense and offense, he could be serviceable.  Was McMahon better?  I'd say no, but he had a stellar D and just had to manage the game.   If you put a rookie QB in place of Cutler on this team, the rookie would probably have worse results and then you'd have to worry about injury and stunted long term development. 

Maybe I'm way off, and I'm sure there are a lot of studies that I'm not aware of, but it seems to me that too may rookie QB's are thrown to the wolves on less than solid teams and either sink or swim.  Some may excel, but the risk is permanently stunting the development of a QB that would excel if gradually brought into the mix.  I can't imagine being a rookie QB, with the game moving too fast, not having a full grasp of the offense, and being on a bad team with limited weapons and a poor O line.  Recipe for post traumatic stress and potential stunted development/low confidence.

A rookie QB that can pull the ball in and run, seems like the type that most likely can excel in that first year.  Just the ability to run if they feel pressure and don't know the offense well enough or it it moves to fast to check down for open receivers.  If they don't get hurt doing so.  The guys that develop into true QB's with the patience and ability to check down to that 3rd and 4th receiver, without just tucking and running, is probably the type of QB that you want to develop for the long term.

As an old time Packer fan, look what happened to Lynn Dickey when he was forced to drop back and pass, and get hit over and over... a shell of a QB at the end.  And he was a veteran.

Not all QB situations are created equal. The Bears' primary issues are on defense. If a rookie QB has Jeffery, White, Royal and Bennett (big "if" on Bennett) along with a decent running game (even sans Forte), a solid o-line and a very good OC, he'd be in a much better position than most rookie QBs.

Many rookie QBs who are busts  were going to be busts whether they played right away or not. Others, like Rodgers, were going to be good no matter when and where they played. There's also a gray area of guys who never quite made it but were not quite busts. Whether it's being thrown into a terrible situation (David Carr) or having a revolving door of coordinators (Campbell, Cutler, Smith), some guys seem to have the skills but can't quite get it together.

What would Alex Smith's career look like if he had dropped to GB instead of Rodgers? Would David Carr have become a Pro Bowler if he sat behind Tony Banks for a year or two? If Denver had kept Shanahan, would he have gotten Cutler to live up to his potential?

[MU B2002]

Would rather have this in the top 5

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The have to Raiders at home this weekend.

#21 on the power rankings.

Lose this and they are getting the #1 pick.

Raiders aren't terrible though. Carr looks much improved, Murray and Cooper look legit and Crabtree is a good second option. I don't know how good their defense is but that's not gonna matter too much with jimmy Clausen starting.

[jesmu84]

Like someone else mentioned, i Don't know if there are studies out there, but I'd have to imagine it would be much better for a rookie QB to walk into a situation where they weren't expected to be the starter day 1. Further, if they had a solid team already and were surrounded by a long term coaching staff/system. Otherwise you end up like David Carr or Jay Cutler - one was expected to be the man on a crappy team, the other has had so many different staffs/systems that it no doubt hurt them.

So, when we examine the Bears next year, do they have either/both of those situations? You could maybe argue they have a decent squad around the QB on offense. I don't think you can argue the same for coaching. Is Fox going to be around that much longer? Is there a successor to Fox on the team and will he run the same system? What is Pace's philosophy with system/coaching?

All questions that need to be answered before we jump on the "BEARS NEED TO DRAFT QB" train.

Either build up a solid roster, then draft a day 1 starting QB who can develop within the team without being the man. Or draft a QB who can sit for a few years while the rest of the roster is built up. Those would be my 2 preferences.

Yes, you can have an Eli, Big Ben, Rivers, Luck, etc. But more often you end up with a David Carr, Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, etc

[jesmu84]

I will make 2 positive comments about the Bears this year.

1. They were arguably the best team at moving the ball against the Cardinals and Packers while Jay was still in the game.

2. The defense seems to be improving each game - after playing against 3 super bowl contending teams.

[Tugg Speedman]

I will make 2 positive comments about the Bears this year.

1. They were arguably the best team at moving the ball against the Cardinals and Packers while Jay was still in the game.

2. The defense seems to be improving each game - after playing against 3 super bowl contending teams.

Dating back to last year, the bears are on an eight game losing that ties a franchise record.  Next week they have to beat a now good Raiders team at home to not set a new mark.

The bears are 3 - 13 in their last 16 games, The worst record in the NFL over the last 16 games.

The Bears ran only two plays in Seattle territory.

Torture the arguments all your want, they are the worst team in football.  They won't go 0 - 16 but they will have the first pick.

[jesmu84]

Dating back to last year, the bears are on an eight game losing that ties a franchise record.  Next week they have to beat a now good Raiders team at home to not set a new mark.

The bears are 3 - 13 in their last 16 games, The worst record in the NFL over the last 16 games.

The Bears ran only two plays in Seattle territory.

Torture the arguments all your want, they are the worst team in football.  They won't go 0 - 16 but they will have the first pick.

Understanding the record, I think you also have to take into account the complete overhaul of the coaching staff and some of the roster. Still makes them 0-3 this season, I agree.

Two plays in Seattle territory is AWFUL. Of course, missing the starting QB, both starting receivers, etc.

Ultimately, yes, they are terrible and likely will get the first pick. Doesn't mean there aren't good things happening as well. I'm clearly not arguing that they'll be a playoff team or anything as insane.

[warriorchick]

This is still my favorite clip from that game:

https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/C099F9D1D41260063685712711680_3531c70ee03.1.5.8626420964079241255.mp4?versionId=I_xiRpjIArJMOi9HlVivcSeRs.9zYQP_

[martyconlonontherun]

Not quite but close enough ...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings

They played #2, #3 and #7 so far.

BUT ... the bears are dead last in this week's power rankings.

Am I reading that right? How are the Seahawks #7 this week at 1-2, (not even touching last week at being #7 at 0-2)

[martyconlonontherun]

Good new for the Bears are a lot of the bottom ten teams have QBs already.

NO-Brees
TB-Winston
Tenn-Marcus
Det-Stafford
9ers- Kaperick (He's in Cutler's boat but younger and just got paid)

They could be picking fourth and still get the franchise QB.

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/648983348329644032

[MU82]

At least they didn't turn the ball over!

That was my initial reaction when I heard the 10-for-10 stat, too!

I remember a game in San Fran about 15 years ago in which the McNown-led offense never got the ball past midfield and the defense gave up a record 20 catches to T.O.

So it could be worse.

[Tugg Speedman]

Warren Buffett likes to say when a company with a bad reputation hires a manager with a good reputation, the company's reputation wins out.

The Bears will ruin John Fox, Fox will not save them.

The bears are the worst team in football.  On the third head coach in four years, and have been to the playoffs 5 times in the last 28 years.

They will forever be one of the leagues most pitiful franchises until (sorry to say it) Virginia McCaskey dies and the family sells the team.

Until then, watch them continue to take high first round pricks and watch them do nothing.

See ...

2015 Kevin White
2011 Gabe Carimi
2008 Chris Williams
2005 Cedric Benson
2003 Rex Grossman
2003 Michael Haynes
2002 Marc Columbo (who did well at Dallas, after the Bears released him)
2001 David Terrell
1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
(I could keep going back to Salaam in 1994, John Thierry 1994, Alnozo Spellman 1992 and Stan Thomas 1991 but you get the point)

To be fair ...
2013 Kyle Long
2007 Greg Olsen (who only became good after they traded him)
2004 Tommie Harris
2000 Brian Urlacher

How can an organization miss this much with first round picks?

[jesmu84]

Warren Buffett likes to say when a company with a bad reputation hires a manager with a good reputation, the company's reputation wins out.

The Bears will ruin John Fox, Fox will not save them.

The bears are the worst team in football.  On the third head coach in four years, and have been to the playoffs 5 times in the last 28 years.

They will forever be one of the leagues most pitiful franchises until (sorry to say it) Virginia McCaskey dies and the family sells the team.

Until then, watch them continue to take high first round pricks and watch them do nothing.

See ...

2015 Kevin White
2011 Gabe Carimi
2008 Chris Williams
2005 Cedric Benson
2003 Rex Grossman
2003 Michael Haynes
2002 Marc Columbo (who did well at Dallas, after the Bears released him)
2001 David Terrell
1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
(I could keep going back to Salaam in 1994, John Thierry 1994, Alnozo Spellman 1992 and Stan Thomas 1991 but you get the point)

To be fair ...
2013 Kyle Long
2007 Greg Olsen (who only became good after they traded him)
2004 Tommie Harris
2000 Brian Urlacher

How can an organization miss this much with first round picks?

Makes me depressed. Thanks

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The bears have more success at picking 2nd rounders. Forte, Hester and Alshon come to mind.

[MerrittsMustache]

Warren Buffett likes to say when a company with a bad reputation hires a manager with a good reputation, the company's reputation wins out.

The Bears will ruin John Fox, Fox will not save them.

The bears are the worst team in football.  On the third head coach in four years, and have been to the playoffs 5 times in the last 28 years.

They will forever be one of the leagues most pitiful franchises until (sorry to say it) Virginia McCaskey dies and the family sells the team.

Until then, watch them continue to take high first round pricks and watch them do nothing.

See ...

2015 Kevin White
2011 Gabe Carimi
2008 Chris Williams
2005 Cedric Benson
2003 Rex Grossman
2003 Michael Haynes
2002 Marc Columbo (who did well at Dallas, after the Bears released him)
2001 David Terrell
1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
(I could keep going back to Salaam in 1994, John Thierry 1994, Alnozo Spellman 1992 and Stan Thomas 1991 but you get the point)

To be fair ...
2013 Kyle Long
2007 Greg Olsen (who only became good after they traded him)
2004 Tommie Harris
2000 Brian Urlacher

How can an organization miss this much with first round picks?

Olsen was very good with the Bears but TEs don't fit into Mike Martz's offense so they dealt him for a 3rd Rounder. Not a good move.

Also, Kyle Long was a good pick, but he could have been had in the 2nd Round...where they took the recently-traded Jon Bostic.

Looking at that this though, it's amazing they managed to make the playoffs 5 times in 28 years!

[Tugg Speedman]

This is what happens to crappy football orgainzations.

‏@Ticketmaster Sep 22
Epic Starts Here! Great Seats to Chicago Bears Games Are Always Available.

[MU B2002]

That was my initial reaction when I heard the 10-for-10 stat, too!

I remember a game in San Fran about 15 years ago in which the McNown-led offense never got the ball past midfield and the defense gave up a record 20 catches to T.O.

So it could be worse.

When 3 and out is never enough.

www.FireJohnShoop.com
I still have my shirt.

Never forget.

[MU B2002]

Warren Buffett likes to say when a company with a bad reputation hires a manager with a good reputation, the company's reputation wins out.

The Bears will ruin John Fox, Fox will not save them.

The bears are the worst team in football.  On the third head coach in four years, and have been to the playoffs 5 times in the last 28 years.

They will forever be one of the leagues most pitiful franchises until (sorry to say it) Virginia McCaskey dies and the family sells the team.

Until then, watch them continue to take high first round pricks and watch them do nothing.

See ...

2015 Kevin White
2011 Gabe Carimi
2008 Chris Williams
2005 Cedric Benson
2003 Rex Grossman
2003 Michael Haynes
2002 Marc Columbo (who did well at Dallas, after the Bears released him)
2001 David Terrell
1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
(I could keep going back to Salaam in 1994, John Thierry 1994, Alnozo Spellman 1992 and Stan Thomas 1991 but you get the point)

To be fair ...
2013 Kyle Long
2007 Greg Olsen (who only became good after they traded him)
2004 Tommie Harris
2000 Brian Urlacher

How can an organization miss this much with first round picks?

Don't think we can write off Kevin White.  Yet.
Why isn't McClellin on that list?  He should be.

[wadesworld]

Olsen was very good with the Bears but TEs don't fit into Mike Martz's offense so they dealt him for a 3rd Rounder. Not a good move.

Also, Kyle Long was a good pick, but he could have been had in the 2nd Round...where they took the recently-traded Jon Bostic.

Looking at that this though, it's amazing they managed to make the playoffs 5 times in 28 years!

Obviously a different sport and you build teams differently in the NBA, but this list is nothing compared to the run the Bucks had with their first round picks.  Holy cow was it brutal.  Luckily, there have been some better picks made recently and it's been part of the turn around.

The first 2 are sadly some of the better picks in this list:
2010 Larry Sanders
2009 Brandon Jennings (Thanks, Pistons, for making this pick work out)
2008 Joe Alexander
2007 Yi Jianlian
2005 Andrew Bogut (at #1 overall)
2004 no first round pick
2003 TJ Ford
2002 Marcus Haslip
2001 no first round pick
2000 Jason Collier
1999 no first round pick
1998 traded the rights to Dirk Nowitzki for Tractor Trailer
1998 Pat Garrity
1997 Danny Fortson

Sorry for the tangent, but wow.

[MU82]

Warren Buffett likes to say when a company with a bad reputation hires a manager with a good reputation, the company's reputation wins out.

The Bears will ruin John Fox, Fox will not save them.

The bears are the worst team in football.  On the third head coach in four years, and have been to the playoffs 5 times in the last 28 years.

They will forever be one of the leagues most pitiful franchises until (sorry to say it) Virginia McCaskey dies and the family sells the team.

Until then, watch them continue to take high first round pricks and watch them do nothing.

See ...

2015 Kevin White
2011 Gabe Carimi
2008 Chris Williams
2005 Cedric Benson
2003 Rex Grossman
2003 Michael Haynes
2002 Marc Columbo (who did well at Dallas, after the Bears released him)
2001 David Terrell
1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
(I could keep going back to Salaam in 1994, John Thierry 1994, Alnozo Spellman 1992 and Stan Thomas 1991 but you get the point)

To be fair ...
2013 Kyle Long
2007 Greg Olsen (who only became good after they traded him)
2004 Tommie Harris
2000 Brian Urlacher

How can an organization miss this much with first round picks?

That is a scary list.

And you are almost surely right that Fox will end up being just another disposable Bears coach.

[DegenerateDish]

It's interesting when you look at the art of drafting across all sports. As a White Sox fan, I get sick looking at how incredibly awful they've been at drafting.

I think when you look at it, the successful organizations have management committed to a specific type of organization they want to run/how they want to play, and they don't deviate from it. Just thinking out loud, look at the Packers, Spurs, Twins (haven't won a title, but they have a top/bottom plan throughout their organization), Blackhawks.

I realize talent pools coming out of college/high school are limited, and there are only so many superstars, but for billion dollar organizations, who are 100% dependent on finding/developing talent, miss so poorly and so often as teams like the Bears and White Sox do, it's dumbfounding.

[Spotcheck Billy]

The bears have more success at picking 2nd rounders. Forte, Hester and Alshon come to mind.

Ted Thompson also has a better record in rounds 2-3 than the 1st round

[MU B2002]

Ted Thompson also has a better record in rounds 2-3 than the 1st round

Do you think that has anything to do with expectations?  Many times 1st round picks are expected to immediately deliver and are thrust into spots they may not be ready for.  The bar is set lower for later rounds, so maybe guys get a little more time.

[JuniorCardigan]

Warren Buffett likes to say when a company with a bad reputation hires a manager with a good reputation, the company's reputation wins out.

The Bears will ruin John Fox, Fox will not save them.

The bears are the worst team in football.  On the third head coach in four years, and have been to the playoffs 5 times in the last 28 years.

They will forever be one of the leagues most pitiful franchises until (sorry to say it) Virginia McCaskey dies and the family sells the team.

Until then, watch them continue to take high first round pricks and watch them do nothing.

See ...

2015 Kevin White
2011 Gabe Carimi
2008 Chris Williams
2005 Cedric Benson
2003 Rex Grossman
2003 Michael Haynes
2002 Marc Columbo (who did well at Dallas, after the Bears released him)
2001 David Terrell
1999 Cade McNown
1998 Curtis Enis
(I could keep going back to Salaam in 1994, John Thierry 1994, Alnozo Spellman 1992 and Stan Thomas 1991 but you get the point)

To be fair ...
2013 Kyle Long
2007 Greg Olsen (who only became good after they traded him)
2004 Tommie Harris
2000 Brian Urlacher

How can an organization miss this much with first round picks?

What I also found fascinating was that they dealt Brandon Marshall and then used their high first round pick to get another wide receiver. Don't get me wrong I think Kevin White is going to be pretty good when he's healthy but it just seemed like a total waste of a first round pick. I would have been a lot happier with a d-lineman.

Also, how on earth could you compare Romo to Cutler in that earlier post? They have a completely different game. If anything the closest QB to Cutler in the NFL is Stafford.

[GGGG]

Do you think that has anything to do with expectations?  Many times 1st round picks are expected to immediately deliver and are thrust into spots they may not be ready for.  The bar is set lower for later rounds, so maybe guys get a little more time.

Ron Wolf had the same problem though.  Wolf oversaw ten Packer drafts and only drafted one All Pro in the first round - Javon Walker.  A number of solid players - Simmons, Taylor, Verba, Holliday.  But a number of busts who probably should have never been drafted -Michels, Edwards, Reynolds.

Thompson on the other had has already had four all Pros drafted in the first round.  Rodgers, Hawk, Raji and Matthews.  Bulaga and Clinton-Dix are solid players.  Busts are Harrell and Sherrod (injury) for sure.  Perry and Jones aren't much better.

[GGGG]

What I also found fascinating was that they dealt Brandon Marshall and then used their high first round pick to get another wide receiver. Don't get me wrong I think Kevin White is going to be pretty good when he's healthy but it just seemed like a total waste of a first round pick. I would have been a lot happier with a d-lineman.

Also, how on earth could you compare Romo to Cutler in that earlier post? They have a completely different game. If anything the closest QB to Cutler in the NFL is Stafford.

There are very few receivers IMO that are worth first round picks.  They have to be extremely gifted physically IMO.  (Megatron, Julio Jones)  You can get really good receivers in later rounds.

[brandx]

There are very few receivers IMO that are worth first round picks.  They have to be extremely gifted physically IMO.  (Megatron, Julio Jones)  You can get really good receivers in later rounds.

Very true. Unless it is an elite guy like those you mentioned along with a couple others.

Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Mongomery - no 1st rounders.

[JuniorCardigan]

There are very few receivers IMO that are worth first round picks.  They have to be extremely gifted physically IMO.  (Megatron, Julio Jones)  You can get really good receivers in later rounds.

This year Amari Cooper definitely deserved to go the first round. He's not particularly physically gifted - but the Raiders really did well with that pick. He absolutely owned Joe Haden last Sunday. I would agree that most of the time they have to be a monster athlete like Julio though

[JWags85]

This year Amari Cooper definitely deserved to go the first round. He's not particularly physically gifted - but the Raiders really did well with that pick. He absolutely owned Joe Haden last Sunday. I would agree that most of the time they have to be a monster athlete like Julio though

Say wha?  He's not that far behind Julio in measurables.  Within 10 lbs of each other despite Julio being 2 inches taller, same speed (fast as hell for a non-burner).  Julio just outdoes him in leaping ability.  Oakland is gonna have Cooper return punts.  That usually doesn't fall to average athletes.

[jesmu84]

Very true. Unless it is an elite guy like those you mentioned along with a couple others.

Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Mongomery - no 1st rounders.

Of course, this is always like the Chicken/Egg argument. Are those WRs great? Or did Rodgers make them great? What happened to Eric Decker after he left Denver? Same for Julius Thomas. What would Demaryius Thomas look like post Manning?

Not to say those WRs aren't talented, but I tend to think the QB makes the WR more than the other way around.

[JuniorCardigan]

Say wha?  He's not that far behind Julio in measurables.  Within 10 lbs of each other despite Julio being 2 inches taller, same speed (fast as hell for a non-burner).  Julio just outdoes him in leaping ability.  Oakland is gonna have Cooper return punts.  That usually doesn't fall to average athletes.

I probably worded that incorrectly. What I probably meant to say is he isn't quite the best athlete in the 2015 WR class but he is easily the best receiver.

[brandx]

Of course, this is always like the Chicken/Egg argument. Are those WRs great? Or did Rodgers make them great? What happened to Eric Decker after he left Denver? Same for Julius Thomas. What would Demaryius Thomas look like post Manning?

Not to say those WRs aren't talented, but I tend to think the QB makes the WR more than the other way around.

I can't argue at all with your point.

What I was saying though is that there is plenty of talent outside of the 1st round with WRs and it is a complete waste to take one in the 1st if you don't have the QB to throw to him - Sammy Watkins being the best example i can think of.

[martyconlonontherun]

Very true. Unless it is an elite guy like those you mentioned along with a couple others.

Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Mongomery - no 1st rounders.

Those guys were all pretty high picks, though, for a team with an already solid offense. Kind of crazy the Packers to think the have very little need on the offensive side of the ball and can almost go straight D. Besides a possible offensive linemen just for the purpose of trying to have the deepest/best line to protect the franchise, I don't see any holes if they can sign Quarless and Starks cheap.

2016 Free Agents
Offense

QB Scott Tolzien
RB James Starks
TE Andrew Quarless
G/T Don Barclay
G Lane Taylor*

Defense
DE Mike Daniels
CB Casey Hayward
S Sean Richardson
OLB Mike Neal
OLB Andy Mulumba*
Specialists
K Mason Crosby
LS Brett Goode

[MU82]

Very true. Unless it is an elite guy like those you mentioned along with a couple others.

Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Adams, Mongomery - no 1st rounders.

Shyte ... Jones was on the waiver wire available to any team just a few weeks ago. He has looked like a star this season. The QB might have a teeny, tiny bit to do with that, but damn!

[JWags85]

I can't argue at all with your point.

What I was saying though is that there is plenty of talent outside of the 1st round with WRs and it is a complete waste to take one in the 1st if you don't have the QB to throw to him - Sammy Watkins being the best example i can think of.

Poor Sammy.  An elite talent, who has actually looked good in the NFL, but was screwed from the start.  If he didn't go to Buffalo, he was going to end up in Cleveland.  Though, there is a decent chance that Tyrod Taylor could turn out alright, so maybe there is a silver lining.

[PBRme]

There is no way that they would have had 10 consecutive punts if Cutler had been playing.  No more than 8 because he would have thrown an interception and botched a handoff for a fumble or something.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

There is no way that they would have had 10 consecutive punts if Cutler had been playing.  No more than 8 because he would have thrown an interception and botched a handoff for a fumble or something.

So we aren't even going to pretend like we watched the games before making these statements eh?

[jficke13]

[...]
2011 Gabe Carimi
[...]

I remember that draft because he was a Badger and everyone was really high on him around these parts. I recall having two thoughts: 1. He was (is?) a giant, like 6'7"+ and strong as an ox. 2. Shouldn't it be easy to get under his pad level if he's that tall?