NFL paid to "thank" the troops

[StillAWarrior]

100% of JTACs gobble Prazosin every night to stave off either the night terrors, the nightmares, or both.

Here is what happens when you get back from the Sandbox:

- You don't go into the Starbucks if it has too many people; too much random movement
- You jump and face the noise when the guy drops a pallet at Home Depot
- You never sit at the bar; you need a booth in the back where you can see the entire room
- You shop for groceries after 2100
- You cross the street if the neighbor has piled up garbage on the street
- You avoid restaurants that use corn oil
- You do not go to Mariner or Seahawk games
- When you wake up at 0200 in a cold sweat you begin your day; there is no going back to sleep
- If there is a line at the checkout stand you set down your things and leave
- You notice and track the woman in a hijab or the man in a taqiyah
- Traffic jams make you extremely nervous; you get off at the next off ramp

I remember coming home from Iraq after a tour as the CAS Chief for MNC-I. As a rated officer I could grab a ride on one of the C 17s. We went VFR direct from BIAP/Baghdad to McGuire in New Jersey where we did a 1 RON before pressing to McChord.

Because of jet lag I was up in the middle of the night. As dawn broke I threw on my running stuff and headed out. We were off base and the hotel was adjacent to a golf course. After 8 months in the desert I was overwhelmed by how green everything was.

As I was soaking in the fact of being home, some grounds keepers fired up their equipment. I was running on a cart path along a stream. At the initial roar of the mowers I took cover on the river bank. I remember my first thought was that I didn't have my weapon. As I got my SA back up I emerged from the brush, covered in mud, as the grounds keepers stared at me while I jogged back towards the hotel. They probably thought I was nuts and, in a very real way, I was not yet ready for everyday life back in The World.

Thank you for this reminder of what those returning from war have to deal with.

I understood all but the highlighted one.  It's probably obvious, but what am I missing?

[keefe]

Keefe, I'm curious as to your opinion on Mr. Junger's piece.  He's been there done that, and it makes some logical sense, so I'm wondering if we are looking at these types of things the wrong way.

Navy

I tend not to read these articles for a variety of reasons. This was actually a very thorough articulation of a complex subject. Perhaps the most important point the author makes is that it is the images of death that haunt vets.

It is not the fear of one's own demise, or even that of comrades, but the results of the destruction you caused or witnessed. We called in air strikes, killed people by the dozens, then watched as the birds fed on the scattered body parts. Doing this several times a day on a series of two week ops for 7-8 months takes its toll. At the time you are just too damned busy to think about what you just did or are witnessing. But once back in suburban America there are many triggers that put you right back in Ramadi or Tora Bora.

Worse, though, is seeing the impact of war on the innocent. We have come across villages where women, children, and old men were eviscerated for not observing Sharia. We have seen marketplaces where IEDs killed dozens of women who went shopping for the family dinner at the wrong time. And we have seen innocents get caught in the crossfire between Coalition forces and insurgents. Imagine 20 kids playing soccer in the street. Forward 10 minutes later and 15 of them are bleeding out in that same street.  

Fear of death causes one to be hyper vigilant - especially in a war where there is no front line or clear demarcation between safety and danger. Adrenaline is raging through one's system every second outside the wire, especially for JTACs who are covert and completely independent 'behind enemy lines.' It is this ultra sensitivity, where every sensation is magnified a thousand fold, that causes the edginess vets experience once back in the world.

For most, the edginess goes away with time. You can go into a crowded restaurant once again. You don't need a seat against the wall. You can spend an afternoon walking around Pike Place Market without that sense of impending doom. What never really goes away, though, are those stark images still buried inside your head that only come out at night.

[keefe]

Thank you for this reminder of what those returning from war have to deal with.

I understood all but the highlighted one.  It's probably obvious, but what am I missing?

Olfactory triggers are probably the most powerful or intense. Corn oil is commonly used for cooking in the Middle East. When I smell corn oil I am back in Ramadi or Najaf. Instantly.

It might seem like a strange connection but the predominant smell after an IED event in a public market is the smell of corn oil. Many vendors have their cooking vats knocked over from the blast concussion.

We were hiding in a copse outside Tikrit doing JTAC overwatch. For 6 days we smelled corn oil as the women made 4 squares a day. 

Shortly after coming back from a deployment the wife wanted to hit a Mexican place. As soon as we got out of the car I knew it wasn't a good idea. We walked in and I immediately said let's have Japanese. There was no way I could stay in that restaurant.

I know for some guys it is diesel fuel. They catch a whiff of diesel and they are back in Iraq or the Stan.

[Benny B]

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/05/ptsd-war-home-sebastian-junger
Basically, Junger theorizes that it's not the trauma of war so much as it is the "trauma" of re-entry into society.  Our society has become so individualized and self-centered that we've lost some of the connective tissue that brings us together.  War is probably the single most unifying thing on this planet (assuming you are wearing the same flag as the person next to you).  This jarring nature of society vs war could be the root cause of some of the difficulties we see with our service personnel coming home.

Actually this is quite an interesting - not to mention an extremely logical - concept.  Exponentially more soldiers fought - and died - on the front lines in WWII than Desert Storm.  Yet PTSD seems to be becoming a much more common phenomenon since Vietnam... not to say PTSD didn't exist pre-60s, but I just don't get the impression that it was nearly as pervasive back in the 50s as it was in the 70s, let alone 90s to present day.

Further, not to take away from anyone who has served over the past 60 years, but couldn't it be argued that what our soldiers encountered in the Pacific and European theaters might have been a much greater mind-fu@k than what might be encountered today, generally speaking?  I'm sure there's sh|t going on today in Durkastan that's every bit as f'd up as Normandy Beach, but we're also not sending 150,000 troops at a time through the line in modern-day warfare.

If so, the increasing self-centeredness of society goes a long ways towards explaining why PTSD is a much greater problem than ever before.    When Paris Hilton, Jersey Shore and the Kardashians make for popular entertainment, I'd be feeling a bit disconnected too coming home from war.  Not to mention, why don't we hear of PTSD being a problem amongst the enemy?   As much as I disagree with their way of life, one has to admit there's probably a much stronger sense of community (shared ideals, beliefs, belonging, etc.) under ISIS than there is in metropolitan America.

It also makes me wonder if one of the best preventative measures for PTSD is to encourage our returning soldiers prone to such to live - or at least decompress for some time - somewhere off the coasts.  If lack of community and a self-centered populace was any sort of PTSD catalyst, the last place our soldiers should be returning to is Texas, California or New York.  I get that this might require someone to re-enter society away from home, but going straight from Afghanistan to Mercer Island can't be the answer.

Just some thoughts.  Part of me hopes I'm way off base.  The other part hopes there might be a viable solution somewhere in this.

[GGGG]

Maybe its not the self-centeredness of society today, but the lack of connection to the war itself.  As keefe said, he went from flying missions in Afghanistan to a Seattle dinner party in 60 hours.  Back in WW2, the war was much more of an even that encompassed all of American society.  Let's face it, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not on the front of mind of most people in the United States.  Most of us went on with our lives without thinking much of it.

To come back to a largely indifferent society was very different than in WW2.

[jesmu84]

Maybe its not the self-centeredness of society today, but the lack of connection to the war itself.  As keefe said, he went from flying missions in Afghanistan to a Seattle dinner party in 60 hours.  Back in WW2, the war was much more of an even that encompassed all of American society.  Let's face it, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not on the front of mind of most people in the United States.  Most of us went on with our lives without thinking much of it.

To come back to a largely indifferent society was very different than in WW2.

I would also say that that is exactly the reason the public allowed those wars to go on for as long as they did.

[brandx]

Maybe its not the self-centeredness of society today, but the lack of connection to the war itself.  As keefe said, he went from flying missions in Afghanistan to a Seattle dinner party in 60 hours.  Back in WW2, the war was much more of an even that encompassed all of American society.  Let's face it, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not on the front of mind of most people in the United States.  Most of us went on with our lives without thinking much of it.

To come back to a largely indifferent society was very different than in WW2.

No draft. The vast majority of families have no investment in the wars. Vietnam was on the front of everyone's mind because almost all families (except for the rich who let others fight their wars - yes I mean you Dickless Cheney, and GWB)) had skin in the game due to the draft.

[rocket surgeon]

100% of JTACs gobble Prazosin every night to stave off either the night terrors, the nightmares, or both.

Here is what happens when you get back from the Sandbox:

- You don't go into the Starbucks if it has too many people; too much random movement
- You jump and face the noise when the guy drops a pallet at Home Depot
- You never sit at the bar; you need a booth in the back where you can see the entire room
- You shop for groceries after 2100
- You cross the street if the neighbor has piled up garbage on the street
- You avoid restaurants that use corn oil
- You do not go to Mariner or Seahawk games
- When you wake up at 0200 in a cold sweat you begin your day; there is no going back to sleep
- If there is a line at the checkout stand you set down your things and leave
- You notice and track the woman in a hijab or the man in a taqiyah
- Traffic jams make you extremely nervous; you get off at the next off ramp

I remember coming home from Iraq after a tour as the CAS Chief for MNC-I. As a rated officer I could grab a ride on one of the C 17s. We went VFR direct from BIAP/Baghdad to McGuire in New Jersey where we did a 1 RON before pressing to McChord.

Because of jet lag I was up in the middle of the night. As dawn broke I threw on my running stuff and headed out. We were off base and the hotel was adjacent to a golf course. After 8 months in the desert I was overwhelmed by how green everything was.

As I was soaking in the fact of being home, some grounds keepers fired up their equipment. I was running on a cart path along a stream. At the initial roar of the mowers I took cover on the river bank. I remember my first thought was that I didn't have my weapon. As I got my SA back up I emerged from the brush, covered in mud, as the grounds keepers stared at me while I jogged back towards the hotel. They probably thought I was nuts and, in a very real way, I was not yet ready for everyday life back in The World.

mouth wide open-wow!!

seriously had tears after reading this-that was powerful.  i guess i didn't figure it was easy coming back from being deployed, but i am honestly... i don't know what i am, but just wow.   i think part of my thoughts are of the soldiers i see in public wearing their uniforms-the individual stories they have and how they are coping inside.  walking a mile in another man's shoes takes on a whole different meaning.  another thought; the stories we heard of returning vietnam(if they were lucky enough to return) vets and getting "spit" upon-sad is only one of the words i could use there.  many of those soldiers probably wished at that point-wtf did i make it back to?? he had to be thinking that he had just left the closest thing to hell he had ever imagined, only to disembark the bus and...but thanks man

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the fact that we as a country pat ourselves on the back for standing up and cheering for soldiers when they return home, yet don't support them enough financially and emotionally through serious problems when they return, is an enormous problem.  This is a symptom of that.

Some of us have no problem supporting the troops at games and away from games.  I'll give them a standing ovation every time.  Just as I thank them at the airport every chance I get with a simple thank you.  I will continue to donate to Wounded Warriors Project, American Snipers, and AMVets.

It's not hard to do both, it really isn't.

[GGGG]

Some of us have no problem supporting the troops at games and away from games.  I'll give them a standing ovation every time.  Just as I thank them at the airport every chance I get with a simple thank you.  I will continue to donate to Wounded Warriors Project, American Snipers, and AMVets.

It's not hard to do both, it really isn't.

Well you are simply a fantastic human being.  Really a model for how each of us can live our lives. 

But of course I never said individuals can't do both.  I was making a statement how society at large feels that it does enough by simply by giving ovations. 

[mu03eng]

Maybe its not the self-centeredness of society today, but the lack of connection to the war itself.  As keefe said, he went from flying missions in Afghanistan to a Seattle dinner party in 60 hours.  Back in WW2, the war was much more of an even that encompassed all of American society.  Let's face it, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were not on the front of mind of most people in the United States.  Most of us went on with our lives without thinking much of it.

To come back to a largely indifferent society was very different than in WW2.

This is why I think mandatory national service is something we should be doing.  Military would be an option but it could be some sort of volunteer organization like habitat for humanity or teach for America or something like that.  Everyone after graduating high school has to give 2 years of national service with no exceptions.

I think it would ultimately bind us so much better as a society if we actually had shared sacrifice in some way.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well you are simply a fantastic human being.  Really a model for how each of us can live our lives. 

But of course I never said individuals can't do both.  I was making a statement how society at large feels that it does enough by simply by giving ovations. 

Is that how society at large feels, or is that your opinion?   I'm going for the latter.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why I think mandatory national service is something we should be doing.  Military would be an option but it could be some sort of volunteer organization like habitat for humanity or teach for America or something like that.  Everyone after graduating high school has to give 2 years of national service with no exceptions.

I think it would ultimately bind us so much better as a society if we actually had shared sacrifice in some way.

But but but, what about the great high school players that should be able to go right to the pros and not have to play college basketball......

For the record, I don't disagree with your idea.  I think Obama also had this idea along with a number of other politicians.  I think it would be an outstanding thing.

[Benny B]

This is why I think mandatory national service is something we should be doing.  Military would be an option but it could be some sort of volunteer organization like habitat for humanity or teach for America or something like that.  Everyone after graduating high school has to give 2 years of national service with no exceptions.

I think it would ultimately bind us so much better as a society if we actually had shared sacrifice in some way.

As much as people are needlessly up in arms about mandatory voting ("we don't want the idiots who don't vote to actually vote"), I don't think mandatory national service is a necessity.  Last thing I want is Billy-Joe-Bob, Bubba and Lumpy framing a wall for anyone, poor or not.  "Sixteen on Center?  Shoot, I never done gone nowhere near there at night."

That said, I believe that that national service should not only be a prerequisite for higher ed, but it should carry some sort of real incentive.  While volunteering at the soup kitchen when you're 15 and living with your parents is great, it's a far cry than doing it for 25-30 hrs/wk 1,000-10,000 miles away from home.

Want to go to a public university at the in-state rate?  Enlist in the reserves or finish two years of national service first.
Want to drink legally at 18?  Enlist full-time or sign up for two years of national service, and get your "Alcohol Card" after the first six months.
Want to increase your eligible subsidized amount under the Stafford loan program?  Two years of national service.
Want to expunge those non-violent misdemeanors on your record before you were 18?  Two years of national service.

Just some examples I can think of off the top of my head.

[GGGG]

Is that how society at large feels, or is that your opinion?   I'm going for the latter.

Considering I said "I think..." in my original post, that's a pretty good bet.

[mu03eng]

As much as people are needlessly up in arms about mandatory voting ("we don't want the idiots who don't vote to actually vote"), I don't think mandatory national service is a necessity.  Last thing I want is Billy-Joe-Bob, Bubba and Lumpy framing a wall for anyone, poor or not.  "Sixteen on Center?  Shoot, I never done gone nowhere near there at night."

That said, I believe that that national service should not only be a prerequisite for higher ed, but it should carry some sort of real incentive.  While volunteering at the soup kitchen when you're 15 and living with your parents is great, it's a far cry than doing it for 25-30 hrs/wk 1,000-10,000 miles away from home.

Want to go to a public university at the in-state rate?  Enlist in the reserves or finish two years of national service first.
Want to drink legally at 18?  Enlist full-time or sign up for two years of national service, and get your "Alcohol Card" after the first six months.
Want to increase your eligible subsidized amount under the Stafford loan program?  Two years of national service.
Want to expunge those non-violent misdemeanors on your record before you were 18?  Two years of national service.

Just some examples I can think of off the top of my head.

Hmm, very interesting.  I kind of like this line of thinking.....but isn't that essentially the plot mechanism in Starship Troopers?  Want to have full privileges, go fight in our wars?

[🏀]

Hmm, very interesting.  I kind of like this line of thinking.....but isn't that essentially the plot mechanism in Starship Troopers?  Want to have full privileges, go fight in our wars?

Is the shower scene included?

[mu03eng]

Is the shower scene included?

Sure that can be one of the privledges

[Benny B]

Hmm, very interesting.  I kind of like this line of thinking.....but isn't that essentially the plot mechanism in Starship Troopers?  Want to have full privileges, go fight in our wars?

Probably the best bad movie ever made, or at least one of the worst good movies.  But no, I was not referencing or even thinking about Starship Troopers, besides, I only saw the first ten minutes of the movie once... usually I just pick it up during the lashings at the academy while flipping through channels.

I'm not necessarily saying full privileges or fighting in wars, because

a) Some people don't want to go to college (or are willing to pay the out-of-state rate), and that's fine;

b) Privileges remain unchanged... e.g. you still get to drink at 21 regardless, but there is a way to get "early access;"

c) You don't necessarily have to "fight" in a war... hell, Doogie Howser wore the military version of a labcoat in the movie, as I recall.  There are plenty of opportunities within the military where you don't have to go anywhere near the front line.  Not sure what it was called in Starship Troopers, but in the U.S., we call it "The Navy."

 

[mu03eng]

c) You don't necessarily have to "fight" in a war... hell, Doogie Howser wore the military version of a labcoat in the movie, as I recall.  There are plenty of opportunities within the military where you don't have to go anywhere near the front line.  Not sure what it was called in Starship Troopers, but in the U.S., we call it "The Navy."

 

[Benny B]

I don't smile or laugh at my own posts very often, but I have to admit... I was quite proud of this one.

[mu03eng]

I don't smile or laugh at my own posts very often, but I have to admit... I was quite proud of this one.

Whatever Myron