2015-16 NFC North/NFL Thread

[Sir Lawrence]

I reckon it's time to start a fresh thread for a fresh season.

Packers/Bears Thanksgiving night, Lambeau Field, Favre #4 retirement celebration:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/300820581.html

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Celebrating against the team that ended his career. Pretty funny.

[NavinRJohnson]

Celebrating against the team that ended his career. Pretty funny.

Could also argue they're celebrating against the team that made his career. That dude owned the Bears.

[jesmu84]

Bears entertaining trade offers for TE Martellus Bennett. Apparently he wants a new contract in Chicago or wants out. Well, hope we get something decent for the guy. Wouldn't mind another mid-round pick.

[DegenerateDish]

I'm going to put this out there, feel free to shoot this down when it doesn't happen, but the Jags are taking Gurley at #3.

[jesmu84]

I'm going to put this out there, feel free to shoot this down when it doesn't happen, but the Jags are taking Gurley at #3.

Dish -

Any insight on the Bears preference? The conventional thinking is best pass rusher left or Kevin White/Amari Cooper.

[DegenerateDish]

Dish -

Any insight on the Bears preference? The conventional thinking is best pass rusher left or Kevin White/Amari Cooper.

My Bears guys are long gone and the second/third hand info I've gotten the last year has been hot garbage. I have no clue, I think they trade with the Rams though.

[MU82]

The NFL draft used to be the worst day on the sports calendar. Then it became the worst two days on the sports calendar. Now it's the worst three days on the sports calendar ... and it's actually more like the worst month because the incessant talk about the draft seems to have started earlier than ever this year -- kind of like the political campaign season!

[Sir Lawrence]

Any of you Chicagoland folks attending the draft?  Or visit the NFL display/square or whatever theyre calling it?

[jsglow]

Any of you Chicagoland folks attending the draft?  Or visit the NFL display/square or whatever theyre calling it?

I had thought about it but decided against.  They're actually closing streets in downtown.  Pretty crazy if you ask me.

Here's what I've learned through the years.  By Saturday you will still have no idea if your favorite team got materially better.

[hairy worthen]

I had thought about it but decided against.  They're actually closing streets in downtown.  Pretty crazy if you ask me.

Here's what I've learned through the years.  By Saturday you will still have no idea if your favorite team got materially better.

This is definitely true to some extent, but I still like the draft. I'm not a geek that watches every second, but it does make for good theater as long as you take it with a grain of salt. How is it any different than getting geeked up on recruits? We have no idea how they will perform either, but it is still fun to get excited about them.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Draft predictions are worthless but heres mine. Unless Amari Cooper is still on the board, Bears trade down.

[JWags85]

Draft predictions are worthless but heres mine. Unless Amari Cooper is still on the board, Bears trade down.

Vic Beasley?

If its Kevin White vs trade down, then I hope they trade down

[jsglow]

This is definitely true to some extent, but I still like the draft. I'm not a geek that watches every second, but it does make for good theater as long as you take it with a grain of salt. How is it any different than getting geeked up on recruits? We have no idea how they will perform either, but it is still fun to get excited about them.

I enjoy it as well.  And I think I know football as well as any sport but it is really hard to determine how a college kid translates to the next level.  What I do know is even the best GMs make mistakes.

[DegenerateDish]

Bears are actively trying to trade up to #2. I believe it's to get Fowler.

[hairy worthen]

Bears are actively trying to trade up to #2. I believe it's to get Fowler.

I could see them going after Mariotta although heard nothing like that.

[Sir Lawrence]

Dish, good to see you participating in life on a more regular basis again. 

[hairy worthen]

Dish, good to see you participating in life on a more regular basis again. 

Yea, the NFL thread would suck without Dish’s input.

[jsglow]

I could see them going after Mariotta although heard nothing like that.

As a Packer fan, I'd be thrilled.

[jesmu84]

As a Packer fan, I'd be thrilled.

I would hate it. Although...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/marcus-mariota-is-projected-to-be-better-than-jameis-winston/

[withoutbias]

I would hate it. Although...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/marcus-mariota-is-projected-to-be-better-than-jameis-winston/

not saying much.

[jesmu84]

Well, here we go...

and twitter saying Bears and Eagles still trying to trade up to #2

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Please don't trade up Bears....For the love of god.

[jesmu84]

"REMEMBER KIDS, IF YOU STEAL THINGS AND ASSAULT PEOPLE THEN YOU MIGHT BE THE #1 PICK AND GET SUPER RICH BUT wait what is the lesson I forgot"

https://twitter.com/FauxPelini/status/593931209568190464

[jesmu84]

First surprise pick - Redskins take Scherff

[Sir Lawrence]

Really thought Bears would go defense with first pick.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Trade down or get Collins. Bears screw it up again. So tired of the Bears drafts.

[DegenerateDish]

Love the Packers pick, was really hoping Bears would take Randall in Rd 2.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Trade down or get Collins. Bears screw it up again. So tired of the Bears drafts.

What's the problem with the White pick?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

What's the problem with the White pick?

Dont think hes worth 7th overall. Bears need defense, theyve needed a safety for the past decade and still have not addressed the problem.

[JWags85]

Trade down or get Collins. Bears screw it up again. So tired of the Bears drafts.

What if they can still get Landon Collins tomorrow?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Dont think hes worth 7th overall. Bears need defense, theyve needed a safety for the past decade and still have not addressed the problem.

So let me get this straight....You're saying White is not worth the #7 pick in the draft yet you're advocating that they should have taken a safety who didn't go in the first round?  Makes perfect sense. 

Picking for need at #7 is not the way to go.  You pick best player available and if that coincides with a need, even better.  And after the Marshall trade the Bears needed a WR. 

[tower912]

Detroit gets two potential starters to protect their most valuable asset.....  Matt Stafford.     Although I am guessing that Ramirez is going to be a back-up at all 3 interior positions. 

[jsglow]

Love the Packers pick, was really hoping Bears would take Randall in Rd 2.

It does seem like he has a ton of upside.  I'm happy with the pick.

[Sir Lawrence]

It does seem like he has a ton of upside.  I'm happy with the pick.

Seems a little undersized to me. 

[hairy worthen]

Seems a little undersized to me. 

5'11, 195.  Not terrible. He will fill out his frame more. That's one of the reasons they want him at cornerback and not safety

[GGGG]

So let me get this straight....You're saying White is not worth the #7 pick in the draft yet you're advocating that they should have taken a safety who didn't go in the first round?  Makes perfect sense. 

Picking for need at #7 is not the way to go.  You pick best player available and if that coincides with a need, even better.  And after the Marshall trade the Bears needed a WR. 

Furthermore, it's not as though the Bears are going anywhere next year anyway.  (Maybe an outside shot at a Wild Card, but that's about it.)  Rebuilding is a multi-year process.  Not done in just one year.  You start picking for need in round one of year one, and you are going to have problems.

[jsglow]

Seems a little undersized to me. 

All the candidates were somewhat undersized this year.  And remember, Ted is thinking slot CB in all likelihood.

[jsglow]

Furthermore, it's not as though the Bears are going anywhere next year anyway.  (Maybe an outside shot at a Wild Card, but that's about it.)  Rebuilding is a multi-year process.  Not done in just one year.  You start picking for need in round one of year one, and you are going to have problems.

Picking for need is fool's gold, especially high in round 1.

[GGGG]

All the candidates were somewhat undersized this year.  And remember, Ted is thinking slot CB in all likelihood.

He's the same size as Tramon, Shields and Hayward.  Ted seems to prefer speed, athleticism and ball-playing abilities versus height and physicality at the CB spot.

[shiloh26]

He's the same size as Tramon, Shields and Hayward.  Ted seems to prefer speed, athleticism and ball-playing abilities versus height and physicality at the CB spot.

It was somewhat surprising, as I feel the Packers have a surplus of slot CBs (Hyde and Hayward, now Randall), without a lot of depth of CBs to cover the outside.  Thompson must feel that Hayward can make that transition.  Or maybe I'm being too adherent to the slot/outside distinction. 

Anyway, in TT I trust, and I'm generally happy to have more versatile guys with good cover skills in the secondary as the league continues to be a passing league.

[DegenerateDish]

Thanks Sir Larry & Hairy for the kind thoughts, much appreciated. Glad to be talking football and not cancer!

I hated the Kevin White pick. To me, this is why self scouting yourself is as important as anything. The Bears aren't going anywhere this year or next (this is part of the reason I hated the Fox hire). They tried like hell to get rid of Cutler (he's gone after next year) and this will be Forte's last season. Why would you draft a kid that had one good year of college production, at a skill position? Especially in a draft deep with wideouts.

As soon as Leonard Williams dropped to six, I felt the Bears should have come up with a package for the Jets to consider. I have not heard that they had a conversation. This team needs to be gutted and built back up, I don't believe Kevin White will get you back to contending any sooner.

[mu03eng]

Not that I want to support Bears fans in anyway but.....all those talking trading back or trading up...that's nice in theory but you have to have trade partners and/or assets to do that.  The Bears don't have any real assets to trade up and there wasn't value at the #7 position to entice a team up to that spot and get the Bears anything.  They were stuck in a bad position.  I don't think the pick will work out, but I'm not sure what the viable alternatives were.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I hated the Kevin White pick. To me, this is why self scouting yourself is as important as anything. The Bears aren't going anywhere this year or next (this is part of the reason I hated the Fox hire). They tried like hell to get rid of Cutler (he's gone after next year) and this will be Forte's last season. Why would you draft a kid that had one good year of college production, at a skill position? Especially in a draft deep with wideouts.

As soon as Leonard Williams dropped to six, I felt the Bears should have come up with a package for the Jets to consider. I have not heard that they had a conversation. This team needs to be gutted and built back up, I don't believe Kevin White will get you back to contending any sooner.

Because they felt he was the best player available at 7.  Who knows if it will work out but I can't fault them for the decision making process.  

[JWags85]

Would have liked Vic Beasley, but figured there was a reason he was falling.

White scares me cause he was sort of the flavor of the week in the post season combines and workouts.  But after living through the early 2000s, its nice to see the Bears will potentially continue with strong WRs even with Marshall leaving

[LAZER]

Because they felt he was the best player available at 7.  Who knows if it will work out but I can't fault them for the decision making process.  

Agreed, they've got a long and ugly rebuild ahead of them, taking best available is the right way to go.

[LAZER]

Not that I want to support Bears fans in anyway but.....all those talking trading back or trading up...that's nice in theory but you have to have trade partners and/or assets to do that.  The Bears don't have any real assets to trade up and there wasn't value at the #7 position to entice a team up to that spot and get the Bears anything.  They were stuck in a bad position.  I don't think the pick will work out, but I'm not sure what the viable alternatives were.

Why don't you think the pick will work out?

[RushmoreAcademy]

Because they felt he was the best player available at 7.  Who knows if it will work out but I can't fault them for the decision making process.  

Right. With as many holes as they have to fill, they just needed the guy they thought was best from all their time spent with these guys. They know they aren't going to win this year.  They aren't trying to build anything around Jay Cutler. No matter what the pick, it was for down the road.
I was most encouraged to hear that they were shopping Cutler and Bennett, just after they got rid of Marshall, because it shows that they are committed to changing the culture, which was really in the toilet.

[mu03eng]

Why don't you think the pick will work out?

Because he's a development pick.  He has raw talent but only a year of production under his belt.  He is going to a team with no locker room leadership I can determine, a QB that might as well have been the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll, and a team deep in a multi-year rebuild.  I would have taken a player with potentially less upside but a more established record.

Maybe John Fox will develop the structure that will develop the kid but the environment he's going to doesn't seem conducive for success as a raw talent.

[GGGG]

Because he's a development pick.  He has raw talent but only a year of production under his belt.  He is going to a team with no locker room leadership I can determine, a QB that might as well have been the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll, and a team deep in a multi-year rebuild.  I would have taken a player with potentially less upside but a more established record.

Maybe John Fox will develop the structure that will develop the kid but the environment he's going to doesn't seem conducive for success as a raw talent.

C'mon.  You just used that reference in the Meme Thread. 

[mu03eng]

C'mon.  You just used that reference in the Meme Thread. 

3rd shooter then??

[brandx]

Thanks Sir Larry & Hairy for the kind thoughts, much appreciated. Glad to be talking football and not cancer!

I hated the Kevin White pick. To me, this is why self scouting yourself is as important as anything. The Bears aren't going anywhere this year or next (this is part of the reason I hated the Fox hire). They tried like hell to get rid of Cutler (he's gone after next year) and this will be Forte's last season. Why would you draft a kid that had one good year of college production, at a skill position? Especially in a draft deep with wideouts.

As soon as Leonard Williams dropped to six, I felt the Bears should have come up with a package for the Jets to consider. I have not heard that they had a conversation. This team needs to be gutted and built back up, I don't believe Kevin White will get you back to contending any sooner.

As a GB fan, the two guys I was hoping the Bears didn't get were Williams and Scherf. Once they went off the board at #5 & #6, I thought it only made sense to trade down to get the extra picks they desperately need.

[jesmu84]

Thoughts on GB using a pick on a QB?

[JWags85]

Thoughts on GB using a pick on a QB?

Brett Hundley could be the worst "good" college QB under pressure I've ever seen.  Has all the tools but was a mental midget in crunch time.

[jesmu84]

Shocking news... Patriots caught cheating again. Not that every player/team probably doesn't as well. But we've definitely got a pattern throughout history with them.

[tower912]

They will pay their fine and win another Super Bowl.

[brandx]

Shocking news... Patriots caught cheating again. Not that every player/team probably doesn't as well. But we've definitely got a pattern throughout history with them.

I'll still take the Patriots over the Cowboys and Jerry Jones anytime.

[jsglow]

Brett Hundley could be the worst "good" college QB under pressure I've ever seen.  Has all the tools but was a mental midget in crunch time.

Agree with that and we'll see what MM can do with him over the next 2-3 years.  Either they spent little (5th round) on an experiment, got good developmental trade bait, or found ARodg's eventual replacement.  I trust Hundley knows he's the luckiest guy in the draft.  Let's hope he's never active this year and only plays 4th Q pre-season mop up.  Scott needs the reps this summer.

[hairy worthen]

Thoughts on GB using a pick on a QB?

Meh,  that's my thought.

They will develop him and hopefully he will show enough in pre season to use as trade bait a few years down the road. He will not be Rodgers replacement.

 Ron Wolf did the same thing numerous times and it paid off for them, IE: Ty Detmer, Brunell, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks. Smart strategy actually.

[jsglow]

Meh,  that's my thought.

They will develop him and hopefully he will show enough in pre season to use as trade bait a few years down the road. He will not be Rodgers replacement.

 Ron Wolf did the same thing numerous times and it paid off for them, IE: Ty Detmer, Brunell, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks. Smart strategy actually.

Wolf was a master at that.  I sense that TT learned his lesson a couple years back.  I think Tolzien is a competent enough backup now after two years in the system and the new kid will be an interesting development prospect.  Who knows if he ever becomes anything.  The reality is that losing the MVP for more than 3-4 games will always threaten a team's playoff chances.

[jsglow]

Some cities aren't meant to have football.  In a tee shirt and shorts? After one hour?

[jsglow]

4 games for Brady and a 2016 first round pick forfeited. 

[Sir Lawrence]

4 games for Brady and a 2016 first round pick forfeited. 

Appeal, arbitration, knocked down substantially is my prediction.

[jesmu84]

This punishment was for 2 reasons, and 2 reasons only:

1. Public opinion
2. Pats history

[ATWizJr]

This punishment was for 2 reasons, and 2 reasons only:

1. Public opinion
2. Pats history

no, the punishment was also for, lying and refusing to cooperate with a league investigation, imo.

[withoutbias]

i don't see this suspension getting reduced.  people siting the fact that there is no hard evidence to prove brady knew about any of this or that brady is guilty need to realize that this is not the court of law.  people are suspended and even fired for things that aren't against the law, but are against a code of conduct expected in their working environment.  no different than this.  sure brady has the right to sue the nfl for whatever pay he is set to make in those first 4 games.  good luck to him, but it doesn't mean the nfl can't suspend him.

[mu03eng]

I don't think that can reduce the number of games, would just further expose what a laughable mess the NFL punishment system is.  The VP of discipline handed down the punishment but it had to be approved by the commissioner before being handed down.  The appeal of the suspension goes to......the commissioner.  So if they reduce the suspension, unless Brady presents some kind of new evidence, the whole thing will be exposed as PR and media driven activity.

Not that they aren't already exposed, but still.

[MerrittsMustache]

i don't see this suspension getting reduced.  people siting the fact that there is no hard evidence to prove brady knew about any of this or that brady is guilty need to realize that this is not the court of law.  people are suspended and even fired for things that aren't against the law, but are against a code of conduct expected in their working environment.  no different than this.  sure brady has the right to sue the nfl for whatever pay he is set to make in those first 4 games.  good luck to him, but it doesn't mean the nfl can't suspend him.

In an actual court of law, Brady's former teammate was just convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence. When people make the argument that there's no "hard evidence" or "smoking gun" to conclude that Brady had knowledge of what was going on, they're showing their ignorance.

[withoutbias]

In an actual court of law, Brady's former teammate was just convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence. When people make the argument that there's no "hard evidence" or "smoking gun" to conclude that Brady had knowledge of what was going on, they're showing their ignorance.

good point.

[Sir Lawrence]

In an actual court of law, Brady's former teammate was just convicted of murder based on circumstantial evidence. When people make the argument that there's no "hard evidence" or "smoking gun" to conclude that Brady had knowledge of what was going on, they're showing their ignorance.

good point.

Agree.  People are convicted of crimes every day with only circumstantial evidence.  Direct evidence, like eye witness observations, can be horribly inaccurate.  I still think, however, that the inevitable appeal will result in a reduction of the punishment. 

[tower912]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/05/14/corey-wootton-detroit-lions/27299857/

Bears fans, Viking fans, is this guy any good or is he just a rotation/depth guy?

[DegenerateDish]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/05/14/corey-wootton-detroit-lions/27299857/

Bears fans, Viking fans, is this guy any good or is he just a rotation/depth guy?

Depth guy, worth the inexpensive contract. Might show something here or there. Ending Favre's career will always be his claim to fame.