Harvard of the Midwest

[HouWarrior]

I need some help on this. What is the MU vs UW rivalry, esp. on degree "cache" and where does it come from...I dont get it, and outside of the state it seems silly and parochial. I know this may upset both sides, but why do adults engage in it...it seems baseless.

I attended MU at time when we thought ND was an arch rival and UW was mired in really bad football and its BB was no big deal. The sports rivalry with UW, back then,  wasnt very strong, at all.

 I chose MU over UW ( I was a Natl Merit Scholar, with many options), because I liked that full professors would teach me at MU, and I wouldn't face mere TA's in accredited classes . Like many, Milwaukee was home back then, and MU would let me take advantage of a very good paying local job through my school years. UW was fine, but I had lived in Madison during elementary years, and UW wasnt for me.

I dont kid myself, ...neither MU or UW is a Harvard. I laugh at the sometime superior attitude of those with a UW undergrad degree, though. That tune only plays in Wisconsin, and it is a scratched and defective record. Anyone who relies on a degree for "status" earned years ago, which likely only had limited cache for their first job interview, tells me they stopped learning in life much beyond their BA degree...how sad. Think back on how little any of us really knew when we got our degree compared to today, and the false nostalgia is obvious.

In Texas, we have the heated rivalry of UT vs TAMU, but few would argue that a Baylor, SMU, Rice, etc undergrad degree is on equal to better footing. Chicos sees the UCLA vs USC issue, but few would argue a Cal degree from Berkley, or Cal Tech aren't really special schools, too.

 Few here in Texas, see UW or even MU as particularly special or unique. UW is simply Big Ten big school, and MU is that Jesuit BB school.

What am I missing? Undergrad degree competition, after one is more than 2 or 3 years out of school is, to me is like worrying how the homecoming king fared after his HS popularity faded. Is it simply that in WI, the UW, and MU are significantly the only two "major" universities...do UWers pretend a superiority, and such grates on MUers...Do MUers fear inferiority (they shouldnt), so they validate and take the bait? What keeps this fire stoked, when logical perspective should've killed off the debate?

The whole thing seems kind of baseless, and silly.

Now I look forward to you setting me straight and explaining this stuff. Feel free to tell me where to get off, as I really am just trying to understand this.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Houwarrior

It is silly...that's what makes it fun.   

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I need some help on this. What is the MU vs UW rivalry, esp. on degree "cache" and where does it come from...I dont get it, and outside of the state it seems silly and parochial. I know this may upset both sides, but why do adults engage in it...it seems baseless.

I attended MU at time when we thought ND was an arch rival and UW was mired in really bad football and its BB was no big deal. The sports rivalry with UW, back then,  wasnt very strong, at all.

 I chose MU over UW ( I was a Natl Merit Scholar, with many options), because I liked that full professors would teach me at MU, and I wouldn't face mere TA's in accredited classes . Like many, Milwaukee was home back then, and MU would let me take advantage of a very good paying local job through my school years. UW was fine, but I had lived in Madison during elementary years, and UW wasnt for me.

I dont kid myself, ...neither MU or UW is a Harvard. I laugh at the sometime superior attitude of those with a UW undergrad degree, though. That tune only plays in Wisconsin, and it is a scratched and defective record. Anyone who relies on a degree for "status" earned years ago, which likely only had limited cache for their first job interview, tells me they stopped learning in life much beyond their BA degree...how sad. Think back on how little any of us really knew when we got our degree compared to today, and the false nostalgia is obvious.

In Texas, we have heated rivalry of UT vs TAMU, but few would argue that a Baylor, SMU, Rice, etc undergrad degree is on equal to better footing. Chicos sees the UCLA vs USC issue, but few would argue a Cal degree from Berkley, or Cal Tech aren't really special schools too.

 Few here in Texas, see UW or even MU as particularly special or unique. UW is simply Big Ten big school, and MU is that Jesuit BB school.

What am I missing? Undergrad degree competition, after one is more than 2 or 3 years out of school is, to me is like worrying how the homecoming king fared after his HS popularity faded. Is it simply that in WI, the UW, and MU are significantly the only two "major" universities...do UWers pretend a superiority, and such grates on MUers...Do MUers fear inferiority (they shouldnt), so they validate and take the bait? What keeps this fire stoked, when logical perspective should've killed off the debate?

The whole thing seems kind of baseless, and silly.

Now I look forward to you setting me straight and explaining this stuff. Feel free to tell me where to get off, as I really am just trying to understand this.

I just browsed this, but from my experience, UW fans consistently explain away any missed recruit or bolting head coach by saying they are soooooo demanding academically (something MU wouldn't understand), that those individuals couldn't cut it.

This, of course, is complete bvllshlt, but it's fun to have some hard evidence to back up what everyone else knows. UW is a good school, just like most other D1 schools.

[Marquette_g]

I don't think anyone is saying UW isn't a great school.  I think this whole thread is really based on the fact that at any opportunity UW fans (many whom didn't attend the school) will tout the academic excellence/superiority of Madison.  See last weekend's Diamond Stone conversation as an example.

I personally don't question the school itself, I just can't stand those that didn't attend acting as though they somehow have a reason for the arrogance.  

I certainly don't believe MU is a better school than UW.  Both of them have their pros and cons.  I just can't stand the UW-Madison arrogance projected from UW-Oshkosh grads.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Why are people continually surprised by this?  It has been explained ad nauseam why some of us feel this way; I'm not expecting everyone to agree with that viewpoint.

If we choose to watch college basketball from a different perspective than you (i.e. hating UW) why do you care?  Rooting against a rival is hardly anything new, and for those of us who live in WI, the endless Badger love gets tiresome.

I am not surprised. If I lived in or grew up in Wisconsin, I would probably feel the same way.  I just find it sort of sad how much the Badgers are talked about on here.  It makes MU fans look like the ugly stepchild that is super jealous of their big step-brother. which may be the case for some, but it certainly isn't for all.

[Marquette_g]

I am not surprised. If I lived in or grew up in Wisconsin, I would probably feel the same way.  I just find it sort of sad how much the Badgers are talked about on here.  It makes MU fans look like the ugly stepchild that is super jealous of their big step-brother. which may be the case for some, but it certainly isn't for all.

That is fair, and i have to admit that I certainly have a bit of that little bother syndrome.  I just can't help not getting annoyed and defensive when my cousin who went to Fox Valley Tech tries to talk to me about "his" school and how "diamond couldn't get in."  

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

That is fair, and i have to admit that I certainly have a bit of that little bother syndrome.  I just can't help not getting annoyed and defensive when my cousin who went to Fox Valley Tech tries to talk to me about "his" school and how "diamond couldn't get in."  

I'm from Michigan and certainly am familiar with the UofM arrogance among fans. I never even thought about UW until moving to Wisconsin seeing their fans. Wisconsin arrogance BLOWS AWAY Michigan arrogance, and it is hilarious to me. Without that I honestly wouldn't cheer against UW save for one game per year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am not surprised. If I lived in or grew up in Wisconsin, I would probably feel the same way.  I just find it sort of sad how much the Badgers are talked about on here.  It makes MU fans look like the ugly stepchild that is super jealous of their big step-brother. which may be the case for some, but it certainly isn't for all.

And if you go to a Wisconsin board and they constantly talk about Marquette, does that make them an ugly stepchild, super jealous, etc, etc?  You can go there any time of the year and there are more threads about MU then any school in their own conference. 

[mu-rara]

This rivalry is most relevant to Wisconsin residents. 

Compares to IU / Purdue, Iowa / Iowa State,  ND / Purdue, etc.  It really only matters for bragging rights for the year.

As far as academics, UW undergrad is nothing special.  Their rankings come from the graduate programs.  The cache of acceptance to UW is strictly financial.  UW needs out of state tuition $$ because the taxpayers of WI subsidize the university so heavily.

The only response you need to a UW hornblower bragging about academics is RON DAYNE.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

And if you go to a Wisconsin board and they constantly talk about Marquette, does that make them an ugly stepchild, super jealous, etc, etc?  You can go there any time of the year and there are more threads about MU then any school in their own conference. 

I have less than zero interest in visiting a UW board to see how a bunch of Sconnies feel about MU.  Why on God's green earth would I give a damn?

[Marquette_g]

I have less than zero interest in visiting a UW board to see how a bunch of Sconnies feel about MU.  Why on God's green earth would I give a damn?

This part we agree on.

[Coleman]

University of Chicago clearly. Most Nobel Laureates of any university in the world.... difficult to get into.... #1 business school in the world.... those are just the factoids I've got off the top of my head. I'm not sure where their law/medicine/etc ranks but I'm sure those are also up there.

Notre Dame is the Douchey Friend of colleges

You're right. I completely forgot about them. But you're right.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

You're right. I completely forgot about them. But you're right.

So that might make them the Cornell, amiright? [rimshot]

[Sheriff]

I agree with Wash U, but I think Northwestern is probably still closer. But those are probably the top 2.

Notre Dame is a good school, but it is not that level.

Duke is the Northwestern of the Southeast.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Errr, not to be a party poop, but don't the little "show details" buttons show that test scores for UW of Madison are actually higher?  Tell me I'm reading those wrong

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have less than zero interest in visiting a UW board to see how a bunch of Sconnies feel about MU.  Why on God's green earth would I give a damn?

Well, you brought up how MU fans act on this board.....I'm giving you a clear path of showing what the other side of the rivalry does....the same exact thing.

It's called a rivalry. Ignore if you wish, but that is what is happening.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Errr, not to be a party poop, but don't the little "show details" buttons show that test scores for UW of Madison are actually higher?  Tell me I'm reading those wrong

Test scores slightly higher, acceptance rate higher.  There is a methodology link that explains it.

[Eldon]

Acceptance rate is not a perfect measure of selectivity.  There comes a point when a school's brand becomes so strong that people know not to even bother applying because they will be rejected.  IMO, a school like Harvard has definitely reached that status (and likely did so a long time ago).  This brand/reputation actually works to increase the school's acceptance rate.

As for the Harvard of the Midwest, I think the University of Chicago takes the cake and it's not even close.  I would put Michigan at second and Northwestern at third.  This coming from absolutely nothing but my own subjective thoughts.

As for Wisconsin, it is a great school but it is hardly Harvard (though who is really?)

[314warrior]

University of Chicago's got to be up there too.

University of Chicago already has a catchy moniker

"University of Chicago - Where Fun Goes to Die"

I think that's official, but I didn't look it up.

[JoeSmith1721]

University of Chicago already has a catchy moniker

"University of Chicago - Where Fun Goes to Die"

I think that's official, but I didn't look it up.

"University of Chicago - I used to be a virgin, I still am, but I used to be, too" - Mitch Hedberg voice

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Acceptance rate is not a perfect measure of selectivity.  There comes a point when a school's brand becomes so strong that people know not to even bother applying because they will be rejected.  IMO, a school like Harvard has definitely reached that status (and likely did so a long time ago).  This brand/reputation actually works to increase the school's acceptance rate.

The data doesn't back up your claim. Harvard is the most selective school in the world for undergrad. If you added back any self-selecting candidates, it would be even more selective.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

"University of Chicago - I used to be a virgin, I still am, but I used to be, too" - Mitch Hedberg voice

The University of Chicago is actually somewhat of a cross between Marquette and Harvard: academics of Harvard, size of Marquette, atheism of Harvard, fancy chapel of Marquette, drinking ability of Harvard, surrounding neighborhood of Marquette.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Errr, not to be a party poop, but don't the little "show details" buttons show that test scores for UW of Madison are actually higher?  Tell me I'm reading those wrong

This would tell me that Madison puts more weight on quantitative measures of a candidate than Marquette. Marquette appears still more selective but maybe putting more thought into the type of student they want to admit. That's the right path to take as your applications increase.

[MUEng92]

I grew up in Rockford, IL, a mere 75 miles straight south of Madison.  I knew nothing about U of Wisconsin except for watching Badger hockey on the local PBS station at 10:30 PM on a Friday night and that Danny Jones, who was 2 grades ahead of me at my high school, went there to play basketball.  I remember thinking, "shoot, he couldn't get a scholarship to Illinois, but hey, at least he gets to play AGAINST good teams."  Academically, I wouldn't have been able to tell you if it was a good school or one step above ITT Tech.

Now, 25 years later, living in the Hartland, WI area, my dislike for the Badgers is at close to an unhealthy level, which is odd, because nearly every Badger fan I interact with personally is not a jerk about it.

[WarriorInNYC]

The data doesn't back up your claim. Harvard is the most selective school in the world for undergrad. If you added back any self-selecting candidates, it would be even more selective.

No, the data exactly backs up his claim.  As you said, if you added back additional candidates that would have been rejected, they would be more selective.  So currently, without those additional candidates, their acceptance rate is increased.

Acceptance rate is not a perfect measure of selectivity.  There comes a point when a school's brand becomes so strong that people know not to even bother applying because they will be rejected.  IMO, a school like Harvard has definitely reached that status (and likely did so a long time ago).  This brand/reputation actually works to increase the school's acceptance rate.