Should DePaul Be Drummed Out of the Big East?

[dgies9156]

OK, now that Jean Lenti-Ponsetto has gone back to the future, we should ask whether DePaul should be drummed out of the Big East.

Arguments for:
  1) Their athletic director is incapable of managing a head coaching decision?
  2) They are so desperate, they are hopeless
  3) There are teams out there -- including Virginia Commonwealth, Dayton, St. Louis and Gonzaga that offer a stronger program.
  4) When your Chicago entry is as bad as DePaul and as hopeless as DePaul, there is no media benefit to being in Chicago.

Arguments against:
  5) They are in Chicago and give the Big East a presence, no matter how tenuous, in the Chicago market.
  6) They may someday fire Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, or she may retire.
  7) They are good for two wins a year, most years.
  8) If we replace them with Dayton, we will have to move the BIg East tournament from Madison Square Garden to the UD Arena.
 
  

[Boozemon Barro]

Switch them out with UIC.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Keep them at a half share until they start trying again.

[Tugg Speedman]

So membership in the BE is a voluntary based in some arbitrary standard of "trying" at basketball.  And hiring Leiteo rises to the level of "not trying?"  Yes, I'm not a fan of this hire but I do not think it rises to the level of kicking them out.  

DePaul is partnering with the Mayor of Chicago (name TBD next week) to build a $200+ million stadium but apparently this does not qualify as trying.

Other sports and academic achievements apparently do not matter either?

Question, had the B1G kicked Northwestern out in the 1980s/early 1990s when they were very very bad in FB and BB, would they be a better conference today?

 

[brewcity77]

I wanted to offer the A-10 DePaul, a home and home series for each team, and their choice of Big East assistants for the Fordham job in exchange for Dayton, but Fordham made a bad hire of their own today. If anyone has any other ideas, maybe we can get a swap deal done soon.

[Tugg Speedman]

Why not kick MU out?  They finished with a worse record than DePaul and hired a coach with no experience!  Leiteo has won NCAA tourney games.

[Tugg Speedman]

Should the B1G have kicked Bucky out in 1991?  They were a laughingstock back then ... far worse than DePaul is now with a nearly bankrupt athletic department.

From Red Ink to Roses: The Turbulent Transformation of a Big Ten Program
http://www.amazon.com/From-Red-Ink-Roses-Transformation/dp/067174853X

Telander (Heaven is a Playground) describes a year's events in the University of Wisconsin athletic department through a series of vignettes. Three people draw most of his attention: Barry Baum, a reporter for the student newspaper; Rick Aberman, the university's sports psychologist; and Al Fish, the administrative officer for the athletic department. Telander also weaves in the stories of dozens of Wisconsin athletes, coaches and administrators to trace the changes in the university's athletic department throughout 1991. The year was marked by the department's efforts to cut its budget deficit, an endeavor that included eliminating baseball, fencing and three other sports. In well-written, magazine-style prose, Telander (a senior writer for Sports Illustrated ) puts a human face on the University of Wisconsin's athletic department. And although the year held a number of memorable events, Telander, as it turns out, was too quick off the mark, for in 1993 the football team, which struggled in 1991, went 10-1-1 and won the Rose Bowl. Photos not seen by PW .

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Hberg....I think its a joke

[Avenue Commons]

Two of the five First Team All-Americas, Kaminsky and Okafor, are Chicqgo area products. The talent level there is immense. But they have to tap into it like Pat Kennedy did. I don't think Leiato is the guy.

[chapman]

Trade them for Simeon High School!

[MUSF]

Let DePaul stay!!

The phrase "at least we're not DePaul" kept me from physically harming myself and potentially others over the past two years.

[tower912]

MU fans should not be voting to kick out a team that had a better season than MU had. 

[Dawson Rental]

Keep them at a half share until they start trying again.

This.  No coasting on other's earnings.

[Dawson Rental]

Switch them out with UIC Loyola.

FIFY

[Dawson Rental]

So membership in the BE is a voluntary based in some arbitrary standard of "trying" at basketball.  And hiring Leiteo rises to the level of "not trying?"  Yes, I'm not a fan of this hire but I do not think it rises to the level of kicking them out.  

DePaul is partnering with the Mayor of Chicago (name TBD next week) to build a $200+ million stadium but apparently this does not qualify as trying.

Other sports and academic achievements apparently do not matter either?

Question, had the B1G kicked Northwestern out in the 1980s/early 1990s when they were very very bad in FB and BB, would they be a better conference today?

Part of me fears that they will be counting on people coming just to see the new arena.

Question, had the B1G kicked Northwestern out in the 1980s/early 1990s when they were very very bad in FB and BB, would they be a better conference today?

How do you define better?  It would certainly be better off financially with say, Missouri as a part of the Big Ten Network.

[Dawson Rental]

Why not kick MU out?  They finished with a worse record than DePaul and hired a coach with no experience!  Leiteo has won NCAA tourney games.

You are being facetious, not stupid, right?

[dgies9156]

I was a bit tounge in cheek when I wrote this poll, but I appreciate substantially the answeres herein. I acknowledge DePaul had a better record than we did. But, we're doing something about it. Our spending, our recruiting and even our new coach is some of the best in the country.

DePaul's men's team, which should be its primary revenue generator, has been bad for ages. Since the 1960s, we've never been that bad that long. And if we were, management would do something more than bring Mike Deane back.DePaul has really lost its way. Not sure whether Jean Lenti-Ponsetto is being overly politically correct; whether there is a strong anti-basketball undercurrent among their faculty and staff; or, whether they just don't care. But waiting for a new arena to open is akin to the Miami Marlins believing they will be world champions with their new stadium. And even then, they tried.

As to kicking Northwestern out of the BIG, or, for that matter, kicking Vanderbilt out of the SEC (at least Northwestern has won the BIG at least once in football), not sure why the question hasn't been raised. As to Becky Badger, they had some really bad football teams for a really long time, but the conference is built around Ohio State and Michigan and the dozen dwarfs anyway. Too bad Michigan has become a dwarf as of late.

[Loose Cannon]

No Can not lose this market and things will change. Its faster to turnaround basketball than other major sports.

[brewcity77]

My honest thoughts on DePaul are pretty simple...

If they don't get rid of Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, there is a very realistic argument that they should be replaced. This league was founded to capitalize on being a top men's basketball conference. You can argue pros and cons as to whether it's been successful in its infancy, but make no mistake, this is a men's basketball league.

DePaul does a good job with women's sports, fits the mission of the league, and brings a bit of prestige as both the largest catholic university and representative of the third largest media market in the country. That's all well and good. But if they aren't willing to show a commitment to bettering the program this entire league was founded on, why are there here?

I love beating DePaul, hate losing to them (New Year's was gutting), and find them great fun to laugh at. But at the end of the day, this is their third consecutive time hiring the same guy. If it doesn't work this time, who's next? Oliver Purnell again? The ghost of Ray Meyer?

Firing Purnell was the first smart thing that school did in ages. Building a new arena should help, but with the fans and booster in revolt mode, what are the chances they can even fill it? Leitao brought some players to DePaul the last time, but one of the big knocks was that he couldn't recruit Chicago, so how does this hire better their position? The problem, however, is not Leitao.

The problem with DePaul is they cannot let go of their past. Leitao is part of their past, and JLP should be part of their past. Firing Purnell was not enough, JLP had to go as well. They botched that. Further, JLP refused to let another part of their past, assistant Billy Garrett, go, so she hired the only coach that would keep him on the staff.

Obviously we aren't going to kick DePaul out right now. But there is precedent for the Big East kicking a team out for failing to field a competitive team (Temple in 2004) and considering DePaul's track record and seeming desire to continue along the same retread path that got them here, I wouldn't object at all if Stu Jackson gave Father Dennis a call and said "if this one doesn't work out, you might want to swing the axe a little higher up than just the men's basketball coach."

In the past 7 years under two different coaches, DePaul has a 16-110 (0.127) record in Big East play. More than 1/3 of those wins came this past season. 6-12 was their best season in 7 years and they fired their coach because of it. This team is beyond the definition of inept. I get that someone has to lose, but all members should show a legitimate commitment to the most important program on campus and DePaul has consistently failed to do that.

DePaul has an obligation not to their fans, not to their alumni, not to their boosters, but to the rest of the Big East to do everything in their power to field a competitive team. If they can't do that, in all honesty, they should be warned and if they do not improve, yes, they should be drummed out of the Big East. There are plenty of schools that would love their place in this league and have demonstrated the willingness, both in terms of winning and dedication to their program, to deserve that place.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Northwestern and Vanderbilt are top-20 academic institutions in the country.  They bring much more to each respective conference than just athletics.  Also, since they are both private, they both help each conference from being fully public conferences - allowing them to shield information and costs.

If DePaul wishes to just continue taking money from Fox and the conference, thus funding all the other DePaul sports, and have no real interest in competing in men's basketball under the current leadership, then they really have no place or right to continue to be a part of the Big East - which emphasizes a push to becoming an elite basketball conference from top-to-bottom.  Now, this won't happen because neither side will ever publicly state this, but the writing has been on the wall for years.

If anyone actually watched the press conference yesterday introducing Leitao, it was nothing short of being pathetic and downright sad.  JLP spoke about herself and all of the school's accomplishments fort the first 10 minutes, after being 15 minutes late to her own press conference, she then spoke mumbled for the next 10 minutes about how Leitao defeated the likes of Crean, Calipari, Huggins, Brey, R. Williams and Coach K, and is really good friends with several Big East coaches.

[GoldenWarrior11]

My honest thoughts on DePaul are pretty simple...

If they don't get rid of Jean Lenti-Ponsetto, there is a very realistic argument that they should be replaced. This league was founded to capitalize on being a top men's basketball conference. You can argue pros and cons as to whether it's been successful in its infancy, but make no mistake, this is a men's basketball league.

DePaul does a good job with women's sports, fits the mission of the league, and brings a bit of prestige as both the largest catholic university and representative of the third largest media market in the country. That's all well and good. But if they aren't willing to show a commitment to bettering the program this entire league was founded on, why are there here?

I love beating DePaul, hate losing to them (New Year's was gutting), and find them great fun to laugh at. But at the end of the day, this is their third consecutive time hiring the same guy. If it doesn't work this time, who's next? Oliver Purnell again? The ghost of Ray Meyer?

Firing Purnell was the first smart thing that school did in ages. Building a new arena should help, but with the fans and booster in revolt mode, what are the chances they can even fill it? Leitao brought some players to DePaul the last time, but one of the big knocks was that he couldn't recruit Chicago, so how does this hire better their position? The problem, however, is not Leitao.

The problem with DePaul is they cannot let go of their past. Leitao is part of their past, and JLP should be part of their past. Firing Purnell was not enough, JLP had to go as well. They botched that. Further, JLP refused to let another part of their past, assistant Billy Garrett, go, so she hired the only coach that would keep him on the staff.

Obviously we aren't going to kick DePaul out right now. But there is precedent for the Big East kicking a team out for failing to field a competitive team (Temple in 2004) and considering DePaul's track record and seeming desire to continue along the same retread path that got them here, I wouldn't object at all if Stu Jackson gave Father Dennis a call and said "if this one doesn't work out, you might want to swing the axe a little higher up than just the men's basketball coach."

In the past 7 years under two different coaches, DePaul has a 16-110 (0.127) record in Big East play. More than 1/3 of those wins came this past season. 6-12 was their best season in 7 years and they fired their coach because of it. This team is beyond the definition of inept. I get that someone has to lose, but all members should show a legitimate commitment to the most important program on campus and DePaul has consistently failed to do that.

DePaul has an obligation not to their fans, not to their alumni, not to their boosters, but to the rest of the Big East to do everything in their power to field a competitive team. If they can't do that, in all honesty, they should be warned and if they do not improve, yes, they should be drummed out of the Big East. There are plenty of schools that would love their place in this league and have demonstrated the willingness, both in terms of winning and dedication to their program, to deserve that place.

Brew, absolutely excellent post.  +1000

Thanks for being able to articulate my thoughts perfectly.

[brewcity77]

Northwestern and Vanderbilt are top-20 academic institutions in the country.  They bring much more to each respective conference than just athletics.  Also, since they are both private, they both help each conference from being fully public conferences - allowing them to shield information and costs.

If DePaul wishes to just continue taking money from Fox and the conference, thus funding all the other DePaul sports, and have no real interest in competing in men's basketball under the current leadership, then they really have no place or right to continue to be a part of the Big East - which emphasizes a push to becoming an elite basketball conference from top-to-bottom.  Now, this won't happen because neither side will ever publicly state this, but the writing has been on the wall for years.

If anyone actually watched the press conference yesterday introducing Leitao, it was nothing short of being pathetic and downright sad.  JLP spoke about herself and all of the school's accomplishments fort the first 10 minutes, after being 15 minutes late to her own press conference, she then spoke mumbled for the next 10 minutes about how Leitao defeated the likes of Crean, Calipari, Huggins, Brey, R. Williams and Coach K, and is really good friends with several Big East coaches.

Good post,but the two bolded bits especially.

If DePaul fails to put a competitive team on the court in Men's Basketball, they are effectively stealing from the other schools. If they cannot earn NCAA credits of their own, they are effectively stealing from the other schools. It's easy to say this is all comedic, but it really isn't. This conference is relying on all ten members to contribute to a brand that is worth putting on FS1.

It's not just their woeful league play, either. In the past 7 years, DePaul has a 53-35 record against non-conference opponents. That includes 7-21 against high-major teams. While 0.250 certainly isn't good against other high-majors, what's worse is that 46 of their 53 wins (86.8%) came against mid and low major opponents in non-conference! And they have on average 2 losses per year against those types of teams. How is that acceptable?

And that press conference...just brutal. It sounded like 15 minutes of JLP trying to spitshine a turd.

[chapman]

How much television and tournament revenue has been paid to DePaul despite a lack of commitment to field a competitive team? Revenue coming from television - where Fox expects to air basketball people want to see, not pay to show a program nobody wants to see.  And revenue from making and advancing in the NCAA tournament, which they haven't done at all since joining the conference.  They aren't being asked to win every year, but six years in the cellar (including zero and one win years) isn't acceptable.  That was only broken by two schools who do commit to basketball in rebuilding mode; nobody doubts MU or CU's commitment to fielding a quality team.  Do hope that the Big East schools have/plan to communicate that DePaul's product is unacceptable - quiet and out of the press, a censure, light a bag of dog crap on their porch, doesn't matter, it seems they need some push because they don't get it.  It's nice that they commit to their athletes excelling as students and invest in women's sports.  That would be fine in the Patriot League, but men's basketball drives the bus in the Big East.

[Avenue Commons]

I've heard (and I think it was posted on the board before) that DePaul's AD's plan is to just get the revenue from the basketball teams in the Big East and then apply that revenue to all the other sports. The DePaul Vincentian philosphy is that all sports and all student-athletes should be treated the same.

[4everwarriors]

What goes around, comes around, hey?

[Tugg Speedman]

I've heard (and I think it was posted on the board before) that DePaul's AD's plan is to just get the revenue from the basketball teams in the Big East and then apply that revenue to all the other sports. The DePaul Vincentian philosphy is that all sports and all student-athletes should be treated the same.

But they don't treat them the same ... they are competitive in a number of sports but not only consistently last in MBB but "way last."

No one is asking for a repeat of the early 1980s.  Just target being 5th place.  Just be average!!!

[Eldon]

I voted no.

Think about it this way.  If DePaul were not already in the conference, would we be talking about them as a potential candidate?

Come on.  Be honest with yourselves.  The answer is yes, we would.  We would be singing the praises of the Chicago TV market, recruiting, institutional fit, the history, etc.  I mean come on.  There are people drooling over the prospect of SLU.  If SLU has a lot of potential, then DePaul has it in spades.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I voted no.

Think about it this way.  If DePaul were not already in the conference, would we be talking about them as a potential candidate?

Come on.  Be honest with yourselves.  The answer is yes, we would.  We would be singing the praises of the Chicago TV market, recruiting, institutional fit, the history, etc.  I mean come on.  There are people drooling over the prospect of SLU.  If SLU has a lot of potential, then DePaul has it in spades.

There should be another option "No - But Someone Tell Them They Are Obligated To Compete"

[brewcity77]

I'll also say this...I know as a Marquette fan, I should be grateful to DePaul. In the wake of the Dukiet years when men's basketball here was at its lowest point, it was largely due to DePaul that Marquette was invited to the Great Midwest in 1991. However, I also feel that debt was repaid when Marquette made sure that DePaul was brought along from C-USA when we joined the Big East in 2005.

This new league needs to have top-to-bottom success. Yes, some teams will lose, that's the case in any league, but DePaul doesn't even seem to be trying. We repaid our debt to them years ago. Honestly, they should feel fortunate they were even included in the C7 considering the half-decade of ineptitude that led to it. Lots of schools wanted in when we went off on our own. I have no doubt there would still be plenty of interest in the coming years if DePaul can't pull their own weight.

[source?]

I voted no, but would like to add one comment. It is my understanding that the new arena that is being built will not actually be owned by DePaul. They will still be paying rent, albeit at a reduced rate. Technically Loyola could schedule games there as well, although that is unlikely considering they just put a bunch of money into their Gentile Center.

[source?]

I'll also say this...I know as a Marquette fan, I should be grateful to DePaul. In the wake of the Dukiet years when men's basketball here was at its lowest point, it was largely due to DePaul that Marquette was invited to the Great Midwest in 1991. However, I also feel that debt was repaid when Marquette made sure that DePaul was brought along from C-USA when we joined the Big East in 2005.

This new league needs to have top-to-bottom success. Yes, some teams will lose, that's the case in any league, but DePaul doesn't even seem to be trying. We repaid our debt to them years ago. Honestly, they should feel fortunate they were even included in the C7 considering the half-decade of ineptitude that led to it. Lots of schools wanted in when we went off on our own. I have no doubt there would still be plenty of interest in the coming years if DePaul can't pull their own weight.

Just a point, the C7 needed 7 schools who had been playing together for a certain number of years to get the auto-bid to the NCAA tourney. DePaul was the only school it made sense to bring.

[chapman]

I voted no.

Think about it this way.  If DePaul were not already in the conference, would we be talking about them as a potential candidate?

Come on.  Be honest with yourselves.  The answer is yes, we would.  We would be singing the praises of the Chicago TV market, recruiting, institutional fit, the history, etc.  I mean come on.  There are people drooling over the prospect of SLU.  If SLU has a lot of potential, then DePaul has it in spades.

I'm drumming up BU if we have to expand.  But I think I'm alone.  DePaul would have a little less noise than Dayton, and for the opposite reasons.

[Coleman]

Add Dayton, Davidson, or VCU, and stay with 12 for a while. Don't get rid of DePaul.

[RushmoreAcademy]

MU fans should not be voting to kick out a team that had a better season than MU had. 

That makes a lot of sense.

[Galway Eagle]

Somebody's gotta lose and fill the basement.  Personally I'd prefer a bottom feeder that has a winning tradition and is in a major market than a bottom feeder that drags us to some small much farther cities to a school with a fraction of the tradition. 

[slingkong]

I'm drumming up BU if we have to expand.  But I think I'm alone.  DePaul would have a little less noise than Dayton, and for the opposite reasons.

I'm with you. I'd love to be able to easily see two MU games every year - BU and PC.

[brewcity77]

MU fans should not be voting to kick out a team that had a better season than MU had. 

It's not about one season, though. 16-110 in the past 7 years. 8 straight losing Big East campaigns. In the past 2 years, all three new additions (Creighton, Butler, Xavier) have more NCAA credits earned than DePaul in the last 10 years.

[Dawson Rental]

No Can not lose this market and things will change. Its faster to turnaround basketball than other major sports.

I get what you're saying about the potential for a turnaround, but the flip side is that the Big East has already lost this market, even with having DePaul in it.

[MU82]

Should dopey polls stop being presented on Scoop?

[Dawson Rental]

I voted no.

Think about it this way.  If DePaul were not already in the conference, would we be talking about them as a potential candidate?

Come on.  Be honest with yourselves.  The answer is yes, we would.  We would be singing the praises of the Chicago TV market, recruiting, institutional fit, the history, etc.  I mean come on.  There are people drooling over the prospect of SLU.  If SLU has a lot of potential, then DePaul has it in spades.

We'd be kidding ourselves because we'd also be talking about how DePaul was a sleeping giant and how once they had access to the exposure, prestige and financial resources that come with membership in the Big East they would become a formidable men's basketball program.

[brewcity77]

We'd be kidding ourselves because we'd also be talking about how DePaul was a sleeping giant and how once they had access to the exposure, prestige and financial resources that come with membership in the Big East they would become a formidable men's basketball program.

If they were posting these same numbers in the Horizon or MVC, we'd be considering them about as seriously as we are considering UIC or Loyola Chicago.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I'm with you. I'd love to be able to easily see two MU games every year - BU and PC.

Make that 3.

[Eldon]

Should dopey polls stop being presented on Scoop?

Not sure, but it sounds like a good poll

[GoldenWarrior11]

While it is extremely disappointing that DePaul has clearly shown no commitment whatsoever towards improving its men's basketball program, I truly feel that it is only a matter of time before the university starts feeling the pinch from the Big East, Fox and the city of Chicago to get new leadership and actually start putting resources into the program.

The fact that JLP, on camera, during a live press conference, said that fundraising and facilities do not make a program successful (in a current state where the athletic program is barely breaking even) had to have made the Big East and Fox executives (especially Val Ackermann) furious.  Each of the Big East schools has, within the past several years, pumped significant cash into their basketball programs - trying to separate themselves from the A-10, MVC, Horizon and WCC conferences.  We want to be the absolute best basketball conference, not just outside the P5, but a part of it as well.  DePaul directly just showed that not only have they not, but they don't see a need and/or desire to.  Unreal.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

nBC Sports reporting they kicked the tires on Tim Floyd, who would've been a questionable hire but STILL more understandable than Dave Leitao.

[JWags85]

nBC Sports reporting they kicked the tires on Tim Floyd, who would've been a questionable hire but STILL more understandable than Dave Leitao.

Pretty sure Tim Floyd got offered the Zona job before Sean Miller took it.  His age is a concern (besides ethics), but he'd have been a walk off homer compared to Leitao.

[ChicosBailBonds]

nBC Sports reporting they kicked the tires on Tim Floyd, who would've been a questionable hire but STILL more understandable than Dave Leitao.

That would have been fun, but only if Buzz was still in the league.  They could each share Mayo recruiting stories.

[Shark]

DePaul should start by changing their ugly uniforms. What recruit wants to go to that dumpster fire and also look like crap while doing it?

[Avenue Commons]

While it is extremely disappointing that DePaul has clearly shown no commitment whatsoever towards improving its men's basketball program, I truly feel that it is only a matter of time before the university starts feeling the pinch from the Big East, Fox and the city of Chicago to get new leadership and actually start putting resources into the program.

The fact that JLP, on camera, during a live press conference, said that fundraising and facilities do not make a program successful (in a current state where the athletic program is barely breaking even) had to have made the Big East and Fox executives (especially Val Ackermann) furious.  Each of the Big East schools has, within the past several years, pumped significant cash into their basketball programs - trying to separate themselves from the A-10, MVC, Horizon and WCC conferences.  We want to be the absolute best basketball conference, not just outside the P5, but a part of it as well.  DePaul directly just showed that not only have they not, but they don't see a need and/or desire to.  Unreal.

The crazy thing is that DePaul has a ton of alumni. A ton. And many, many, many super succesful alumni who would love to see the Blue Demons reclaim their 1980's glory. It's not like they'd have to ask hard if they just put a winner on the court. DePaul is the most maddening sports program ever.

[Loose Cannon]

I get what you're saying about the potential for a turnaround, but the flip side is that the Big East has already lost this market, even with having DePaul in it.

I think one Super recruit like a Parker or Okafor might START to turn it around.

[Galway Eagle]

I think one Super recruit like a Parker or Okafor might START to turn it around.

The getting of one of those recruits might manage to package some other decent local recruits. 

[Dawson Rental]

Add Dayton, Davidson, or VCU, and stay with 12 for a while. Don't get rid of DePaul.

The Big East will add Richmond before it adds Davidson.  Georgetown has a relationship and likes their academics.

[MU82]

I think one Super recruit like a Parker or Okafor might START to turn it around.

Pat Kennedy got such a Super recruit in 1998. His name was Quentin Richardson. He was one of the best high school players in America, had two great seasons at DePaul and went on to have a long, successful NBA career.

Bobby Simmons and Lance Williams joined Richardson at DePaul, and it was heralded as DePaul's resurgence in the Chicago recruiting world. Steven Hunter, a highly recruited 7-footer, followed the next season.

After two good (but not great) seasons with "Q," DePaul went back into the toilet. Kennedy stopped recruiting great Chicago players, there were all kinds of reports of cheating, and Kennedy soon was gone.

So it takes more than just one Super recruit.

[Dawson Rental]

I think one Super recruit like a Parker or Okafor might START to turn it around.

The problem is super recruits don't go to dumpster fire programs.  DePaul has a lot of work to do before that kind of recruit is simply delusional for them.  BTW, DePaul was the first school to start recruiting Okafor, and he didn't even try to help them out by giving them a University of Wisconsin style second place finish.

[dgies9156]

I think one Super recruit like a Parker or Okafor might START to turn it around.

Gee, kinda like Henry Ellenson?

[Galway Eagle]

The problem is super recruits don't go to dumpster fire programs.  DePaul has a lot of work to do before that kind of recruit is simply delusional for them.  BTW, DePaul was the first school to start recruiting Okafor, and he didn't even try to help them out by giving them a University of Wisconsin style second place finish.

At least Jabari gave Depaul that honorary second place feeling.  But I would argue some super recruits could change a program I mean think of what's been happening with LSU.  They were terrible for a bit there and suddenly they've got like 4? former all americans on their team next year?

[chapman]

The Big East will add Richmond before it adds Davidson.  Georgetown has a relationship and likes their academics.

Davidson also has a size issue - less than 2,000 undergrads.  Richmond isn't even at 3,500 though, not much better.

What's also rough about a current program not achieving - it's easier to take a flier on a program like Richmond or BU, understanding that it could take a few years for them to adapt to a higher level of competition if you have 10 schools already committed.  The "someone needs to lose" mindset is easier to adopt when it feels like everyone is trying.  Seton Hall has been the other boob of our time in the Big East, but they at least give the sense of committing to fielding quality teams even if the results have mostly been a cluster.

Gee, kinda like Henry Ellenson?

I would love if trades were in college basketball only to see what kind of terrible deals JLP would offer, and execute.  She would probably offer two track athletes for Ellenson.

[source?]

I voted no.

Think about it this way.  If DePaul were not already in the conference, would we be talking about them as a potential candidate?

Come on.  Be honest with yourselves.  The answer is yes, we would.  We would be singing the praises of the Chicago TV market, recruiting, institutional fit, the history, etc.  I mean come on.  There are people drooling over the prospect of SLU.  If SLU has a lot of potential, then DePaul has it in spades.

When we were discussing SLU, they had recently hired Majerus, were in the middle of a 3 year run in which they were ranked in the top 15, on their way to 3 NCAA tourney appearances in a row, and had just built a brand new stadium. DePaul has had 14 losing seasons in the last 20 years, SLU has had 6. They are also a much stronger academic institution than DePaul.

If DePaul had not been in the Big East, and had moved to a league like the Horizon, dominated, and gotten a bid every other year or so over that span, then we are talking about them as an expansion possibility. If they remain in Conference USA and struggle similarly to how they did in the Big East, then we are probably picking up SLU.

[manny31]

Maybe it has already been covered but is there a mechanism in place by which a member of the Big East can be kicked out of the league? Fwiw I voted no but as I was reading this thread I started to wonder... Should DePaul be allowed a free ride of TV revenue and NCAA credits indefinitely  If the answer is no when do you pull the plug?

[Dawson Rental]

Maybe it has already been covered but is there a mechanism in place by which a member of the Big East can be kicked out of the league? Fwiw I voted no but as I was reading this thread I started to wonder... Should DePaul be allowed a free ride of TV revenue and NCAA credits indefinitely  If the answer is no when do you pull the plug?

The discussion won't start until Fox Sports decides to start it.  They are the ones putting up the majority of the cash.