Why A Wisconsin National Championship Would Be Good For College Basketball

[Tugg Speedman]

Despite what he says below, I still think he seems to be saying if the "white guys" win that would be good for college basketball?

-------------------------------------

Why A Wisconsin National Championship Would Be Good For College Basketball

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogergroves/2015/03/15/why-a-wisconsin-national-championship-is-good-for-college-basketball/

arning It The Old Fashioned Way While Still A Novelty:

The Wisconsin Badgers are 31-3 on the season. They won the regular season conference championship. They won the Big Ten tournament championship. All of which earned them a number 1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

But they did not get that way through the instant recruiting of the top McDonalds’ All-Americans. They had a core group who prioritized academics and continued to grow physical and academic maturity each season. At least two, Frank Kaminsky and Sam Dekker could have become impatient with this process and become millionaires via the NBA draft last year. But they came back for all the right reasons – a degree and a championship – presumably in that order. It would be nice to provide the ultimate prize for that – a National Championship.

They are not the only team with these characteristics, or with the items mentioned below. But Wisconsin is not a perennial like Duke. Wisconsin even playing for a national championship would be a novelty factor that is off the charts, as would the ratings against say, Kentucky.

Playing the game the way it should be played:

The Badgers are methodical. They are mature. They do not lose their mind in difficult circumstances. To the contrary, they are mentally stronger than many of their opponents.

Saliently, they are so fundamentally sound they do not beat themselves. The Badgers did not have a single turnover until 5:28 left in the semifinal game of the Big Ten Tournament against Purdue. By then they had a 15 point lead, and lost their edge. Shame, Shame – run the bleachers.  They ended the game with just two turnovers in a 20-point blowout against a very good Purdue team. They were down to Michigan State by 11 points at a critical stage in the second half in the championship game. Yet Michigan State made critical turnovers down the stretch that Wisconsin did not make, and the Badgers found a way to win despite being outplayed.

Low turnover ratios are merely the offspring of discipline, unselfishness, and playing with a sense of togetherness and well-coached offensive schemes that includes precise floor spacing, passing perfection, and recognition and response to defensive schemes.

Senior Rewards:

Frank Kaminsky is the best poster child for everything good about college athletics. He is a freakishly nimble athlete, with outside touch and inside moves, who happens to be a 7-footer. In other words, he defies the myths. Let America see him shine. He is also the College Player of the Year in the minds of several experts. He would trade the accolades for a championship. It would be nice to see him get his wish.

Traevon Jackson, dubbed by his teammates as a great teammate and leader, played virtually injury free for his first three years. He was as much a stalwart for this team as anyone over that span. But a foot injury sidelined him for several games late in the season. He could return for the first game of the NCAA tournament. A reward for him too would be well deserved fate.

Only hoops aficionados say Bo Ryan is one of the best coaches in college basketball. Ryan has led the Badgers to more Sweet 16 appearances since 2003 than everyone except Duke, Kansas and Michigan State. And for those with amnesia, his team made the Final Four just last year. Yet few can form their lips to say he’s among the elite coaches in America.

The excuse that “he’s never won the big ones” would be extinguished. No excuses for an objective mind would remain.

And Ryan’s program has been without major scandal. They can speak of high graduation rates without the one-and-done stigma among historic purists of the college game.  So for the Badgers to win the crown would be validation that playing the “right way” is indeed the way to winning it all. Other teams may even mimic them instead of the one-and-doners.

Cross Cultural Economics

Wisconsin is one of the few elite level teams where the majority of the star players and bench players are white. Yet I suspect too many people suffer with an undiagnosed implicit bias that somehow they are less athletic because of it. I hope America gets to see these very talented players defy those myths.

And then there are the economic benefits of growing an audience across cultural boundaries. The majority of America is white – for now. So are the majority of advertisers, business interests connected with the game. I would like to think for the majority of those college constituencies, those racial dynamics do not matter. But it would not surprise me, and I could understand why there may be a heightened sense of self-interest for some if Wisconsin made that magical run to the championship, much like when Larry Bird was playing for it against Michigan State and Magic Johnson.

No one should be surprised if the March Madness media frenzy has a little extra pop if Wisconsin makes that run. Higher TV ratings and higher advertising rates would not be far behind. Capturing the “imagination” of the overall public would not be surprising either. And any time the viewers can grow beyond traditional boundaries, it’s a good thing.

[GGGG]

Oh...my goodness....that is awful.

I was going to bitch about the "playing the game the right way" line.  There are many different ways to play basketball.

But the whole white thing crosses cultural boundaries?  Ick.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The Badgers as methodical white boys is a total cliche. I've said it before, but what Wisconsin has become is what Indiana once was...a true "program." Nothing to do with skin color.

By the way, Virginia is much more methodical than Wisconsin.

[brewcity77]

Would you believe the writer of the article is black?

[Dawson Rental]

Despite what he says below, I still think he seems to be saying if the "white guys" win that would be good for college basketball?

That's what he's saying.  From a racial stereotype perspective, he's arguing that a Wisconsin win would reduce rather than increase stereotypes.  When you read his discussion of what makes Wisconsin a great team, however, it could be implied that he is doing the opposite.

I'm skeptical that his argument that the audience for the tournament would be expanded is correct.  I don't necessarily see that the tournament will pull in a larger white audience with a Wisconsin run.  The majority of Marquette players are African-American.  Are the majority of Marquette fans?  That hasn't been my experience.  I believe that the base of college basketball fandom is largely college graduates (or at least attendees) who developed their love of the sport in school rooting for their school's team.  Are a group of Illinois State fans (whose team just missed the tournament by losing a conference tournament final game) going to be more likely to follow the NCAA tournament just because Wisconsin made it as a high seed this year?  I don't see it.  For the most part thinking that the tournament will suddenly appeal to non college basketball fans is delusional.  You'll get a state pride related pickup in fans from Wisconsin, but that's all that I think can reasonably be expected.

[Dawson Rental]

Would you believe the writer of the article is black?

If the writer was white, I'm skeptical that the article could have been published.

[CTWarrior]

I think the author is way off base.  I would think a school like Butler with their back to back Final Four runs would do a lot more to attract the audience that the author says Wisconsin would.  They were a true underdog with four year kids that built a program by playing the "right" way. 

I honestly don't know because I'm not too interested in TV ratings.  Were Butler's Final Four games particularly highly rated?

At any rate, since I don't live in Wisconsin I can appreciate what UW does because I don't have to deal with their fanbase.  I coach at a low level and profess to love back door cuts and the extra pass leading to layups, but I often find myself kinda bored when I watch Wisconsin, though they undoubtedly play a very smart style.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm firmly of the belief that avoiding all the one and dones is a good strategy unless you are a Kentucky or someone that can get many of them and just reload.  Wisconsin has continuity, very little roster shifting, they don't take JUCOs very often, the kids learn the system.  It's old school, and it's paying remarkable dividends.  If a Diamond Stone one and done happens along, sure you take him, but some of the higher profile programs are learning the hard way with all the early exits, primma donna players demanding time and disrupting chemistry, transferring, etc.

You need talent to win, but you continuity works wonders as well, especially for programs that aren't going to get 5 stars all the time.  My two cents.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Terrible article riddled with factual errors.  Wisconsin graduates there players?  Checkout this link from last year:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/03/17/ncaa-men-basketball-tournament-teams-see-record-graduation-rates/P3QxfXSFvfLBDJUmDDmLML/story.html

For those who didn't click through it says the Wisconsin Men's Basketball Graduation rates are:

Black: 0.0
White: 100.0
Overall: 44.0

Purdue is a good team?  I'd say mediocre but that's an opinion, not fact.  Dekker and Kaminsky returned for degrees?  Well Dekker is a junior so unless he's set to graduate early he didn't return for his degree.  Let's see what happens this year and what he thinks of coming back for his degree.  Improving draft stock and winning a national championship were probably the biggest factors for their return.  Let's see if Kaminsky has time to finish while going through the draft process.  Some do, some don't.

And I haven't even touched on the racial comments at the end of the article.  Regardless of the writers race, saying essentially "White people want the white people to win" is a sad commentary on the perception race plays in American society.  I don't give two $h*t$ if the National Champs are predominantly white, all black, or purple & green!  For the record, I'm white.  And I'm insulted!

[Eldon]

This argument is both tired and false.

Anyone remember when people were making this claim (white players fill the seats/TV ratings) about the Timberwolves a few years back?

[CTWarrior]

This argument is both tired and false.

Anyone remember when people were making this claim (white players fill the seats/TV ratings) about the Timberwolves a few years back?

It amazes me that people think this way.  Anybody involved in professional sports should know that by far the best way to boost attendance is to win, and win a lot.  Everything else is noise level by comparison.  If you are a regular winner and still don't draw (I'm looking at you Tampa Bay Rays) you need to think about moving.

[bilsu]

Any team besides the usual Blue Blood winning the NCAA tournament is good for college basketball. However, I will be rooting for Kentucky, if they play again. Actually, I want Kentucky to win it all, because I am sick of hearing how Indiana was the last team to go undefeated.

[GGGG]

I'm firmly of the belief that avoiding all the one and dones is a good strategy unless you are a Kentucky or someone that can get many of them and just reload.  Wisconsin has continuity, very little roster shifting, they don't take JUCOs very often, the kids learn the system.  It's old school, and it's paying remarkable dividends.  If a Diamond Stone one and done happens along, sure you take him, but some of the higher profile programs are learning the hard way with all the early exits, primma donna players demanding time and disrupting chemistry, transferring, etc.

You need talent to win, but you continuity works wonders as well, especially for programs that aren't going to get 5 stars all the time.  My two cents.

I agree with you, and I think that is the main reason college basketball has suffered over the past few years.

However, I don't think many white people say "Man, I would really get into this more if more of the players were white."

I also don't think many people, regardless of race, say "I love watching this Wisconsin team.  They are so methodical!"

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I don't want Wisconsin winning anything in basketball!

That goes for Notre Dame also!

[MUfan12]

However, I don't think many white people say "Man, I would really get into this more if more of the players were white."

You'd be surprised. I have heard far too many complaints from people in WI about MU's team being "too black."

[GGGG]

You'd be surprised. I have heard far too many complaints from people in WI about MU's team being "too black."

Yeah I probably would be.  But that is why I used "many" instead of "most."  (Something an English composition prof taught me first semester, freshman year in some classroom deep in the bowels of the Schroeder Complex.)

[The Man in Gold]

Assuming one accepts his racial premise ... You'd think Wisco's Final 4 run would have been enough to rally White America last year?  Or is losing to UK not enough time for everyone to hop on the white team bandwagon?

More broadly, I don't understand most of this article 1) because its generally nonsensical and 2) considering that Wisconsin is in almost the exact same situation as last year.  Shipped out to the West Region, high seed, projected Rd 32 game against Oregon, elite 8 vs. Arizona and Final 4 vs. Kentucky if chalk holds.  This is literally deja vu from last year.

[Tugg Speedman]

Terrible article riddled with factual errors.  Wisconsin graduates there players?  Checkout this link from last year:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/03/17/ncaa-men-basketball-tournament-teams-see-record-graduation-rates/P3QxfXSFvfLBDJUmDDmLML/story.html

For those who didn't click through it says the Wisconsin Men's Basketball Graduation rates are:

Black: 0.0
White: 100.0
Overall: 44.0

Given the size of Bucky's endowment and these numbers, I shocked that Jesse Jackson has not tried to shake them down.

Maybe I'm speaking too early.

[#UnleashSean]

If the writer was white, I'm skeptical that the article could have been published.

^^^
This says it all. This race thing is a one way street.

[Pakuni]

^^^
This says it all. This race thing is a one way street.

White people got it tough in this country, amirite?

[GGGG]

^^^
This says it all. This race thing is a one way street.

Exactly.  Really, as a white, middle class male, I have it so rough.  Good thing I have Badger basketball to help me cope.

[#UnleashSean]

Exactly.  Really, as a white, middle class male, I have it so rough.  Good thing I have Badger basketball to help me cope.

No, its Methodical basketball.

[Johnny B]

White people got it tough in this country, amirite?

What. Smh

[Anti-Dentite]

On a personal level as one who resides in Wisconsin, the rodents winning it all would be catastrophic. I'm convinced it would lead to my early demise. I will buy the jersey of any team that knocks them out and wear it in any public setting where there is a chance it would piss somebody off.

[breadtree]

Terrible article riddled with factual errors.  Wisconsin graduates there players?  Checkout this link from last year:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/03/17/ncaa-men-basketball-tournament-teams-see-record-graduation-rates/P3QxfXSFvfLBDJUmDDmLML/story.html

For those who didn't click through it says the Wisconsin Men's Basketball Graduation rates are:

Black: 0.0
White: 100.0
Overall: 44.0

Either Ryan Evans, Jordan Taylor, Rob Wilson are white, or that Boston Globe article is wrong.  

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051812aaa.html

JD Wise: also white http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-high-bench-marks-for-dan-fahey/article_e2fbec4c-7a34-11e2-895f-0019bb2963f4.html

[brewcity77]

The guys at Anonymous Eagle absolutely destroyed that article. Seriously, read this. It's pretty epic:

http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/3/17/8228591/forbes-roger-groves-wisconsin-basketball-fire-joe-morgan-style-kaminsky-ryan-dekker-bucky

[Eldon]

The guys at Anonymous Eagle absolutely destroyed that article. Seriously, read this. It's pretty epic:

http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/3/17/8228591/forbes-roger-groves-wisconsin-basketball-fire-joe-morgan-style-kaminsky-ryan-dekker-bucky

Good stuff.  Can someone tweet the link to the original author?  I loved the B-Mad quote at the end.  Very well done.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The Forbes article is laughable. Gotta get those white people in the seats!

I really don't care who wins the tournament, as long as Bucky loses

[jakeec]

The guys at Anonymous Eagle absolutely destroyed that article. Seriously, read this. It's pretty epic:

http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/3/17/8228591/forbes-roger-groves-wisconsin-basketball-fire-joe-morgan-style-kaminsky-ryan-dekker-bucky

This is a bad article and fitting with all of the delusion here.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Either Ryan Evans, Jordan Taylor, Rob Wilson are white, or that Boston Globe article is wrong.  

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051812aaa.html

JD Wise: also white http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-high-bench-marks-for-dan-fahey/article_e2fbec4c-7a34-11e2-895f-0019bb2963f4.html

Thanks for the info.  Looks like both articles are wrong on some levels.

[GGGG]

This is a bad article and fitting with all of the delusion here.

I don't think the Anonymous Eagle article is all that great, but you have to admit that Forbes article is REALLY odd.  I mean the whole "white basketball" thing is beyond insulting to everyone involved.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Some big fans of the response article

http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/79066/Forbes-Article-Wisconsin-Insane-Marquette-Response


Breadtree is always an interesting guy in how he posts here vs there.....

[brandx]

Given the size of Bucky's endowment and these numbers, I shocked that Jesse Jackson has not tried to shake them down.

Maybe I'm speaking too early.

Cuz that what blacks do?

[MarquetteDano]

What would be good for college basketball is the following in the Final Four:

• Kentucky (takes care of the blue blood)
• A mid major conference team (Gonzaga?)
• A small school that goes on a unlikely run (e.g. #7 seed or worse)
• Another major conference school in the Top 10

And of the teams on that list hopefully differing styles of offense and defense.  Of course all three Final Four games close with Kentucky playing in the final.

That would be good for college basketball.

[ecompt]

I love the moron who called the Big East Conference "second-rate." In no universe is their conference ahead of the Big East, unless of course you want to claim the number of schools who have been put on probation for various offenses.

[MU82]

Both articles had many mess-ups.

However, I do think it is noteworthy that in 2015, a mostly white team -- and Wisconsin goes all-white whenever Hayes leaves the floor -- is a legitimate title contender.

I don't know about advertisers, it being good for basketball, etc., but I do know that casual viewers (even non-racists!) do notice when they look up and see an all-white team on the floor, especially when that team happens to be one of the best few in the land.

As a former newspaper journalist, I really do think there is a story there. I'm not even exactly sure what it is, and it obviously would have to be carefully researched and written, but I do think it is interesting, both from the basketball perspective and the societal perspective (in other words, what do observers think).

I like any examination of the human condition that makes me think, and I would welcome a well-done article on this topic.

In a related opinion, I agree totally that Kentucky advancing to the title game would be best for the interest in this tournament. Either you want to see Kentucky make history or you want to see David slay Goliath. Either way, you need Kentucky.

[Tugg Speedman]

Cuz that what blacks do?

Wow are you becoming unhinged ...

It's because that is what Jesse Jackson does.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Some big fans of the response article

http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/79066/Forbes-Article-Wisconsin-Insane-Marquette-Response


Breadtree is always an interesting guy in how he posts here vs there.....

Always good for a laugh. My favorite part is how none of them actually dispute anything in the article. They just automatically go to "Marquette sucks." That being said, there were errors in the AE post, but it was still funny. Loved the vines

[breadtree]

I love the moron who called the Big East Conference "second-rate." In no universe is their conference ahead of the Big East, unless of course you want to claim the number of schools who have been put on probation for various offenses.

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekend-sports-tv-ratings-3-14-15-2015.html

The ratings below are household ratings from the 56 television markets with local Nielsen meters for Saturday March 14 and Sunday March 15, 2015. The 56 markets (out of 210 total) cover about 70% of the US television population.

College Basketball

Saturday
1.55 rating CBS 1:00 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Purdue vs #6-Wisconsin
1.90 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Michigan State vs #8-Maryland
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.55 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Auburn vs #1-Kentucky
0.94 rating ESPN 3:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Georgia vs #21-Arkansas
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU

3.86 rating CBS 6:00 NCAA Tournament Selection Show

[GGGG]

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekend-sports-tv-ratings-3-14-15-2015.html

The ratings below are household ratings from the 56 television markets with local Nielsen meters for Saturday March 14 and Sunday March 15, 2015. The 56 markets (out of 210 total) cover about 70% of the US television population.

College Basketball

Saturday
1.55 rating CBS 1:00 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Purdue vs #6-Wisconsin
1.90 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Michigan State vs #8-Maryland
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.55 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Auburn vs #1-Kentucky
0.94 rating ESPN 3:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Georgia vs #21-Arkansas
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU

3.86 rating CBS 6:00 NCAA Tournament Selection Show

And?  The value of a conference isn't based on their television ratings.  And of course the ratings are smaller on FS1.

**Smaller schools with smaller alumni bases
**FS1 isn't a "destination" like ESPN for viewers
**It was a bad game.

The conference is fine...you know...on the basketball court.  Where it matters.

[cheebs09]

The Badgers have their best team ever, and the day before the tournament starts breadtree is over here debating TV ratings. We aren't a rival though.

[brewcity77]

(Some irrelevant crap about TV ratings)

Second-rate conference doesn't mean ratings. It means how good the conference is.

NCAA RPI Conference Ratings:

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) ACC
4) Big 10
5) SEC

Pomeroy Conference Ratings:

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) ACC
4) SEC
5) Big 10

Sagarin Conference Ratings

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) Big 10
4) ACC
5) SEC

Massey Conference Ratings

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) ACC
4) Big 10
5) SEC

If you'd like, I can keep going. Quite simply, your conference isn't as good as ours is. Your big, bad, Big Tweleventeen might have more teams and (1) more bid, but in terms of team for team value, the Big East is better. The only way the Big East is a "second-rate conference" is in that we are the second-rated conference by EVERYONE. Does that make the Big 10 a mid-major? No. But your league is still behind our league.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekend-sports-tv-ratings-3-14-15-2015.html

The ratings below are household ratings from the 56 television markets with local Nielsen meters for Saturday March 14 and Sunday March 15, 2015. The 56 markets (out of 210 total) cover about 70% of the US television population.

College Basketball

Saturday
1.55 rating CBS 1:00 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Purdue vs #6-Wisconsin
1.90 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Michigan State vs #8-Maryland
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.55 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Auburn vs #1-Kentucky
0.94 rating ESPN 3:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Georgia vs #21-Arkansas
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU

3.86 rating CBS 6:00 NCAA Tournament Selection Show

Pretty sure KenPom, Sagarin, RPI and others all say the Big East is better than the Big Ten this year.  TV ratings....wait, you're saying Big Ten schools with the largest student bodies and alumni bases in the country outperform small, Catholic, private universities on TV?  OMG.  I believe I have truly learned something today....15+ years in the television industry and never would have known this....thank you so much.

You also realize that one major provider, AT&T, doesn't have the game on due to a carriage dispute which impacted the TV ratings numbers...of course you did.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Second-rate conference doesn't mean ratings. It means how good the conference is.

NCAA RPI Conference Ratings:

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) ACC
4) Big 10
5) SEC

Pomeroy Conference Ratings:

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) ACC
4) SEC
5) Big 10

Sagarin Conference Ratings

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) Big 10
4) ACC
5) SEC

Massey Conference Ratings

1) Big 12
2) Big East
3) ACC
4) Big 10
5) SEC

If you'd like, I can keep going. Quite simply, your conference isn't as good as ours is. Your big, bad, Big Tweleventeen might have more teams and (1) more bid, but in terms of team for team value, the Big East is better. The only way the Big East is a "second-rate conference" is in that we are the second-rated conference by EVERYONE. Does that make the Big 10 a mid-major? No. But your league is still behind our league.

60% of the Big East made the dance....Big Televen less.    I suppose they think the Horizon league was the 2nd best league in the country when Butler went to the Final Four, but that's essentially what the would be saying.  Big East 7-5 vs the Big 14 this year....legends....leaders....

When I saw this photo, I had to ask myself if they photo shopped anyone in as they have had to do in the past.....

[mu-rara]

However, I don't think many white people say "Man, I would really get into this more if more of the players were white."

I also don't think many people, regardless of race, say "I love watching this Wisconsin team.  They are so methodical!"

C'mon Sultan.  You're from that part of the world.  There are a lot of Badger fans who are not so closeted racists.  They live outside Dane County with their bretheran.

[brandx]

Big East 7-5 vs the Big 14 this year....legends....leaders....

Meaningless. The Big East was 1-7 against the top half (top 7 teams) of the Big 10.

I often disagree with ratings and this is just one more case. I've thought the BE was overrated all year. Maybe it's partly because I been spoiled by the quality of the old BE where it really was one of the top conferences every year.

Unlike most, I will give a prediction - the BE will not have the 2nd best record among Conferences after this weekend. I see Villanova and mediocrity.

If I'm wrong, feel free to come back and let me know I was wrong.

I welcome any other predictions. The BE has the possibility of 12 wins this weekend. How many will they get?

[JWags85]

Unlike most, I will give a prediction - the BE will not have the 2nd best record among Conferences after this weekend. I see Villanova and mediocrity.

Kind of like Wisconsin and mediocrity in the B10?  Maryland is better than any other BE team, but Iowa, MSU, OSU, Purdue?  I'd be comfortable with GT, Butler, or even Xavier over any of them.

3 of those 7 losses were Marquette in their worst season in 20 years, and another was GT in a coin flip game against Wisconsin, hardly representative of conference dominance.

[brandx]

Kind of like Wisconsin and mediocrity in the B10?  Maryland is better than any other BE team, but Iowa, MSU, OSU, Purdue?  I'd be comfortable with GT, Butler, or even Xavier over any of them.

3 of those 7 losses were Marquette in their worst season in 20 years, and another was GT in a coin flip game against Wisconsin, hardly representative of conference dominance.

All of the conferences are top heavy. But the BE only has 1 clear quality team (like the Pac 12), the ACC has 4, the Big 10 has 3 (if B. dawson is healthy).


So, you got any predictions for the weekend?

[brewcity77]

Meaningless. The Big East was 1-7 against the top half (top 7 teams) of the Big 10.

Okay, someone must be using that new math, because I'm not sure it's possible for the Big East to be 7-5 vs the Big 10 and 1-7 against the top half. Also, three of those top half losses came from our second-last place team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Okay, someone must be using that new math, because I'm not sure it's possible for the Big East to be 7-5 vs the Big 10 and 1-7 against the top half. Also, three of those top half losses came from our second-last place team.

LOL

[brandx]

Okay, someone must be using that new math, because I'm not sure it's possible for the Big East to be 7-5 vs the Big 10 and 1-7 against the top half. Also, three of those top half losses came from our second-last place team.

Obviously I meant 1-5 since it was 7-5 as a whole. (I'm sure if I hadn't written it, I would have been the one pointing this out.)

But I would still like to see some predictions by anyone here on how they think conferences will do comparatively this weekend. And if you think how they do reflects on the conference as a whole.

[GGGG]

But I would still like to see some predictions by anyone here on how they think conferences will do comparatively this weekend. And if you think how they do reflects on the conference as a whole.

In 2008-09, we all made a big deal out of half of the E8 and F4 being Big East teams.  We crowed about the Big East being the best conference around.  That year, the BE was fourth in conference RPI behind the ACC, B10 and B12.  

So conference strength is oftentimes cherry picked by those statistics that make it look good.  In reality it is a mix of the following...

**Conference RPI
**Strength at the top
**Number of NCAA bids
**Advancement in the tournament: S16, E8, F4.

The 2008-09 BE wasn't great at the first, but real good at the the last three.  This year's BE looks real good on the first and third.  But I have to admit, I am worried about the second and fourth.  Really there is only one "elite" BE team this year.  You have to go down in the polls a long way before you find another BE member.

If the seeds hold out, only two BE teams will make the S16.  And one of them is Georgetown - a program that never fails to disappoint.  And while I think Nova might make the Final Four, I really can't say that I am "confident" in it.

So I understand where you are coming from.

[GGGG]

One more point, if Creighton is better than Rutgers, that helps the BE's RPI when compared to the B10.  But in reality, no one really cares if the bottom of a conference is better than the bottom of another conference. 

[brewcity77]

I'm not home so I couldn't look up the numbers, but I will say that a 7-2 record by non-Marquette teams (we weren't good) isn't bad.

I do think NCAA results are a bit overrated, but I have the Big East going 10-6. Villanova with half of those wins. Of course, the average fan only watches in March and will base their opinions on this month. While I'd love to say we'll have a banner year, I think some of the matchups just suck. Most notably the 4-seed and theoretical pod favorite Georgetown likely having to play two veritable road games to reach the Sweet 16.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Conference rankings examine the entire conference, the best through the worst.  On that level, Big East was rated 2nd best in the country.

How well teams do in the tournament is a different animal.  Those are individual teams that were at the top of their conference.  For those making the argument that how a conference does in the tournament is the end all be all, then they have to be on board with the notion the Horizon League was somehow one of the top leagues in the country because of how one team, Butler did.  Or the Colonial Athletic Association with George Mason, etc, etc.

[MarquetteDano]

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/skedball-weekend-sports-tv-ratings-3-14-15-2015.html

The ratings below are household ratings from the 56 television markets with local Nielsen meters for Saturday March 14 and Sunday March 15, 2015. The 56 markets (out of 210 total) cover about 70% of the US television population.

College Basketball

Saturday
1.55 rating CBS 1:00 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Purdue vs #6-Wisconsin
1.90 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Michigan State vs #8-Maryland
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.55 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Auburn vs #1-Kentucky
0.94 rating ESPN 3:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Georgia vs #21-Arkansas
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU

3.86 rating CBS 6:00 NCAA Tournament Selection Show

This is the equivalent of Yankees fans coming other's boards to show their tv ratings and budgets are better than other teams.

Congrats... you are the Yankees.  Only difference is they have  25 championships.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Terrible article riddled with factual errors.  Wisconsin graduates there players?  Checkout this link from last year:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/03/17/ncaa-men-basketball-tournament-teams-see-record-graduation-rates/P3QxfXSFvfLBDJUmDDmLML/story.html

For those who didn't click through it says the Wisconsin Men's Basketball Graduation rates are:

Black: 0.0
White: 100.0
Overall: 44.0

Purdue is a good team?  I'd say mediocre but that's an opinion, not fact.  Dekker and Kaminsky returned for degrees?  Well Dekker is a junior so unless he's set to graduate early he didn't return for his degree.  Let's see what happens this year and what he thinks of coming back for his degree.  Improving draft stock and winning a national championship were probably the biggest factors for their return.  Let's see if Kaminsky has time to finish while going through the draft process.  Some do, some don't.

And I haven't even touched on the racial comments at the end of the article.  Regardless of the writers race, saying essentially "White people want the white people to win" is a sad commentary on the perception race plays in American society.  I don't give two $h*t$ if the National Champs are predominantly white, all black, or purple & green!  For the record, I'm white.  And I'm insulted!

the article doesn't mention what time period those graduation rates are from but it possibly could be the 2013-2014 season. WI only had Brust for their senior class that year so pretty misleading to state that only white players graduate but 0 black players do, accurate but misleading.

[CTWarrior]

Both articles had many mess-ups.

However, I do think it is noteworthy that in 2015, a mostly white team -- and Wisconsin goes all-white whenever Hayes leaves the floor -- is a legitimate title contender.

I have to admit, I was flipping channels one night (I think it was this season) and I stumbled across a T-wolves game and immediately noticed they had a "white-out" on the floor.  It was so surprising that I watched for a few minutes (until the next commercial break, probably), which I don't normally do for the NBA unless a former MU player is involved or it is the playoffs.  I don't think of myself as racist at all, but I definitely did that.  I think it was just that it was so unusual/surprising to see.

[JWags85]

Obviously I meant 1-5 since it was 7-5 as a whole. (I'm sure if I hadn't written it, I would have been the one pointing this out.)

But I would still like to see some predictions by anyone here on how they think conferences will do comparatively this weekend. And if you think how they do reflects on the conference as a whole.

I have the BE as 6-4 through the weekend (Nova and GT in the S16; Xavier and SJU falling first round) and B10 as 5-5 (UW and Maryland in the S16; Purdue, OSU, Iowa, and Indiana all losing their first games.)

[brandx]

I have the BE as 6-4 through the weekend (Nova and GT in the S16; Xavier and SJU falling first round) and B10 as 5-5 (UW and Maryland in the S16; Purdue, OSU, Iowa, and Indiana all losing their first games.)

I hope they go 6-4 with 2 teams advancing.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Jackson is back.....time to disrupt chemistry.

[brewcity77]

Jackson is back.....time to disrupt chemistry.

The whole Jackson thing reminds me of Dominic in 2008-09.