Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[GGGG]

I want JJJ to be good. But I couldn't help noticing 4 occasions tonight in which he went for a steal he had no chance of getting and all 4 led to wide-open 3s for Nova, which made three of the four.

This is why I say that steals and poor positional defense is NOT the signs of a good defender. 

[jsglow]

It actually would be fun to see Derrick become a 'chucker' for one game.  But that'll never happen as he's the son of an army discipline.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Are you serious?  Says the guy who went on a rant of combative dislike for me within the last 48 hours?  Didn't even respond to it, as I chose to be the bigger person on that.  I thought about sharing some choice views I have on you, yet felt it was unnecessary to stoop to your level.

As for this post - yes - I served up an offer/challenge of giving someone 120+ games to pick the best 6 of Derrick's entire career to exceed JJJ's 6 of this year.  Per usual, the usual suspects all chime in with crickets, BWAHHHHH, etc., when someone posts stats that get close to JJJ's - and what's hilarious about it??  The challenge ultimately wasn't met.  

Sorry I find it laughable that when given a 3.5 year pool of games to choose from, all the Derrick supporters here (many of whom discredit JJJ), can't even grab the best 6 games of Derrick's career and exceed JJJ's production of the 6 games this season JJJ's gotten 25+ minutes.

If you have a rebuttal to ANYTHING I've ever posted, feel free to share. I openly admit when I've been wrong, and it has certainly happened a lot over the years.

I stand by my post. I didn't call you names. I didn't attack your character. I know in the past you felt my takes weren't hot enough, so I hope you can appreciate that my post was HOT thanks to your previous feedback.

I gave you a brutally honest opinion and evaluation of your posts. If you would like to do the same to me, feel free. I'm certainly not beyond critique.

[CTWarrior]

It actually would be fun to see Derrick become a 'chucker' for one game.  But that'll never happen as he's the son of an army discipline.

It would certainly be interesting, but I doubt it would be 'fun'.  'Painful to watch' is probably closer to the correct description.  Derrick shoots a decent percentage basically because unless he is stuck with the ball in an expiring shot clock situation he only shoots wide open, uncontested jump shots and on drives to the hoop.  Bulk shooting would not be his friend, as his FT% would attest.  The kid is disciplined and knows his limitations.

[Lighthouse 84]

This is also what we hear from TW regarding his relationship to JjJ. Texas Western, if you're a relative or former coach of JjJ, or of John Dawson, I think you should either let us know where your bias comes from or leave the board.  If you're simply a passionate Warrior fan, you've got some blinders on about JjJ's ability that only you, Ners, Wojo's Mojo and few others see.

[We R Final Four]

I want JJJ to be good. But I couldn't help noticing 4 occasions tonight in which he went for a steal he had no chance of getting and all 4 led to wide-open 3s for Nova, which made three of the four.

Now, I don't know from all the fancy schmancy defensive metrics that are out there now, but in my mind, that's 9 points against my team that might not have been scored had one player shown a bit more discipline.

+1.  I have been saying this same thing for awhile now.  On MU D, I find myself watching JJJ exclusively, and am amazed at how fundamentally unsound that he is. Also, by doing what you described 82, JJJ has put our bigs is a bad spot where they have picked up fouls cuz JJJ's man (if he doesn't shoot the open J like Nova) drives to the hoop and draws the foul. 
People can come on here and tell me all about his D1 ranking on steals, etc.  but his D is still brutal.

[GOO]

I think that a couple of posters, Texas and Ners, give us great insight into what people around players are telling them.  And why the family and those around players can be detriments to the player.

We wonder why some players make poor decisions, just imagine a group of people like Ners around you telling you how great you are, how the coach's don't know what they are doing, etc, etc.  Look at Ners approach to Dawson and imagine a group around you pumping you up and how the coach is an idiot and is out to get you, etc. 

As for debating Ners, I know it is hard to stop, but face the facts that he never will and is not able to face the facts.  You get drawn into a bad position of having to put down an MU player inorder to debate Ners.  So, maybe stop. I know most of you don't want to put down JJJ over and over, but that is what you end up doing inorder to try to engage with Ners.  It isn't worth it. Leave JJJ alone, even at the expense of having Ners assertions not being disproven.

I'm beyond tired of having Ners taking over scoop in thread after thread with the same stuff over and over and over.  But the good news, is that I'm not visiting here as often, which can only be a good thing.

[brandx]

This is why I say that steals and poor positional defense is NOT the signs of a good defender. 

This is why I challenged Bama's Value Added earlier this year. Steals were way overrated, but more importantly, all steals are treated the same whether it's a guy cheating on defensen and getting burned most of the time - but coming up with a couple steals or a guy playing sound defense and getting steals through hard work.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I want JJJ to be good. But I couldn't help noticing 4 occasions tonight in which he went for a steal he had no chance of getting and all 4 led to wide-open 3s for Nova, which made three of the four.

Yup, I cringed every time he went flying towards half court on a steal attempt and left his man.

On the positive side, he has a nice mid-range touch.  He'll be even better in that aspect when he isn't flying around off-balance on those.  Vander made huge strides in his pull up game, no reason JJJ can't.

But my god, he needs to fix his defense.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

This is why I say that steals and poor positional defense is NOT the signs of a good defender. 

Which were exactly Deonte's problem as well.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think that a couple of posters, Texas and Ners, give us great insight into what people around players are telling them.  And why the family and those around players can be detriments to the player.

We wonder why some players make poor decisions, just imagine a group of people like Ners around you telling you how great you are, how the coach's don't know what they are doing, etc, etc.  Look at Ners approach to Dawson and imagine a group around you pumping you up and how the coach is an idiot and is out to get you, etc. 

A good comparison. It's even worse when its friends and family. Players trust their friends and family and if they are telling him not to trust the coach, it can destroy the coach/player relationship. Of course, parents and friends can also be great allies to coaches. If a player gets frustrated with a coach and vents to the parent, the best thing the parent could do would be to tell the student to trust the coach and go earn their spot in the rotation. This used to be a very common practice. Now, parents think their little angels are the best at everything and deserve special treatment.

I've posted it before but I'll post it again because it is such a good representation of today's culture:

[79Warrior]

I think that a couple of posters, Texas and Ners, give us great insight into what people around players are telling them.  And why the family and those around players can be detriments to the player.

We wonder why some players make poor decisions, just imagine a group of people like Ners around you telling you how great you are, how the coach's don't know what they are doing, etc, etc.  Look at Ners approach to Dawson and imagine a group around you pumping you up and how the coach is an idiot and is out to get you, etc. 

As for debating Ners, I know it is hard to stop, but face the facts that he never will and is not able to face the facts.  You get drawn into a bad position of having to put down an MU player inorder to debate Ners.  So, maybe stop. I know most of you don't want to put down JJJ over and over, but that is what you end up doing inorder to try to engage with Ners.  It isn't worth it. Leave JJJ alone, even at the expense of having Ners assertions not being disproven.

I'm beyond tired of having Ners taking over scoop in thread after thread with the same stuff over and over and over.  But the good news, is that I'm not visiting here as often, which can only be a good thing.

Well said.

[jakeec]

How does a top 25 player like Johnson not develop? 

[tower912]

How does a top 25 player like Johnson not develop? 

His career isn't over.   The same could be asked of Butch.

[MUfan12]

His career isn't over.   The same could be asked of Butch.

If only JJJ had redshirted...

[brewcity77]

How does a top 25 player like Johnson not develop? 

Better question, how did a top-40 player that would go on to have a NBA career in Greg Stiemsma never average more than 3.5 ppg in college? Must just be poor coaching, I guess.

[NersEllenson]

I think that a couple of posters, Texas and Ners, give us great insight into what people around players are telling them.  And why the family and those around players can be detriments to the player.

We wonder why some players make poor decisions, just imagine a group of people like Ners around you telling you how great you are, how the coach's don't know what they are doing, etc, etc.  Look at Ners approach to Dawson and imagine a group around you pumping you up and how the coach is an idiot and is out to get you, etc. 

As for debating Ners, I know it is hard to stop, but face the facts that he never will and is not able to face the facts.  You get drawn into a bad position of having to put down an MU player inorder to debate Ners.  So, maybe stop. I know most of you don't want to put down JJJ over and over, but that is what you end up doing inorder to try to engage with Ners.  It isn't worth it. Leave JJJ alone, even at the expense of having Ners assertions not being disproven.

I'm beyond tired of having Ners taking over scoop in thread after thread with the same stuff over and over and over.  But the good news, is that I'm not visiting here as often, which can only be a good thing.

LOL - You think Jameel McKay is thinking:  Damn, I sure screwed up leaving Marquette?  Think Burton or Dawson are thinking "Damn wish I was still at MU," seeing MU at 10-12, 2-8 in conference play?  Nothing better than showing up to practice, and riding the bench 20+ minutes per game, on a losing team, behind a highly ineffective vet -  that apparently does a better job of acting as if they are hustling and playing to the scouting report - yet largely produces nothing in the box score of any significance.

I guess some here would stick around their organization for a butt plugging, rather than take their talents elsewhere where a different organization/leader can recognize those talents and utilize them effectively.

And PS - Nothing has been disproven about JJJ.  They guy has so much more business being on the basketball court at this point than Derrick Wilson, it is laughable Wojo still can't adapt...just as laughable that the same usual suspects can't see the folly of their ways, and the ways of our head coach.

But let's face it:  Because coaches are paid millions of dollars - it absolves them of EVER making wrong decisions.  Even when your record is 2-8 in conference play.

[willie warrior]

It actually would be fun to see Derrick become a 'chucker' for one game.  But that'll never happen as he's the son of an army discipline.

No, actually it would not be "fun". More like Brutal.

[g0lden3agle]

LOL - You think Jameel McKay is thinking:  Damn, I sure screwed up leaving Marquette?  Think Burton or Dawson are thinking "Damn wish I was still at MU," seeing MU at 10-12, 2-8 in conference play?  Nothing better than showing up to practice, and riding the bench 20+ minutes per game, on a losing team, behind a highly ineffective vet -  that apparently does a better job of acting as if they are hustling and playing to the scouting report - yet largely produces nothing in the box score of any significance.

I guess some here would stick around their organization for a butt plugging, rather than take their talents elsewhere where a different organization/leader can recognize those talents and utilize them effectively.

And PS - Nothing has been disproven about JJJ.  They guy has so much more business being on the basketball court at this point than Derrick Wilson, it is laughable Wojo still can't adapt...just as laughable that the same usual suspects can't see the folly of their ways, and the ways of our head coach.

But let's face it:  Because coaches are paid millions of dollars - it absolves them of EVER making wrong decisions.  Even when your record is 2-8 in conference play.

McKay has nothing to do with the conversation as he left under Buzz.  We have no idea how Burton is going to perform elsewhere, and Dawson had to go to a school that's made the dance 3 times in 20 years to get playing time. 

JJJ's first play in the game was throwing it to Derrick while he was out of bounds.  Where was his tight leash then?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

LOL - You think Jameel McKay is thinking:  Damn, I sure screwed up leaving Marquette?  Think Burton or Dawson are thinking "Damn wish I was still at MU," seeing MU at 10-12, 2-8 in conference play?  

No. But Jameel McKay is probably thinking, damn, I wish I didn't have to sit out for a year and a half and waste a half of year of eligibility. He probably would have even more minutes here than at Iowa state if that was his priority. And who knows? I think with a dominant rebounder like McKay on the squad, we might have had a much better last two years.

Dawson will probably be happier at Liberty but a player who needed to transfer to a Big South bottomfeeder that is graduating four of its starters this seasons to find playing time probably wasn't good enough for Marquette anyway.

Burton I'm sure will be happier elsewhere. It sounds like he needed to get away from Milwaukee after his mother's passing. But I think he would have been a star here if he had stayed. Luke's arrival would have shifted him over to the three and I think he would have returned to the Burton we knew and loved. He was simply getting outmuscled and outsized at the four position. But with our roster, what else could we do? I think next season could have been something really special with Duane, Burton, Henry, and Luke.

But it's not just about transfers. Outside influences can have negative impact on players even if they stay. It's better to trust the coach. They are going to knew more than any outside influences 99% of the time

[jakeec]

His career isn't over.   The same could be asked of Butch.

Good point. Bigs do take longer to develop.  There is still time for Johnson though.

[mu-rara]

JjJ still has a lot of work to do.  If he truly buys what Wojo is selling I think he can be a contributor in his last 2 years.

[NersEllenson]

McKay has nothing to do with the conversation as he left under Buzz.  We have no idea how Burton is going to perform elsewhere, and Dawson had to go to a school that's made the dance 3 times in 20 years to get playing time. 

JJJ's first play in the game was throwing it to Derrick while he was out of bounds.  Where was his tight leash then?

McKay is relevant because the point being made was "kids making bad decisions to transfer" based on feedback from friends/family.  Burton will do just fine at ISU.  Will be a star.  Dawson will do just fine at Liberty.  

As for JJJ throwing it to Derrick in first play of the game.  Looked to me like that was a designed intention/play - as upon catching it immediately, without any hesitation JJJ threw it back to Derrick.  And Derrick certainly didn't seem surprised by the pass coming to him whatsoever.  But, perhaps JJJ just made that play on his own thinking it was a good idea/play.  Who knows.  Wojo did do a better job of extending the leash for JJJ last night.

[NersEllenson]

No. But Jameel McKay is probably thinking, damn, I wish I didn't have to sit out for a year and a half and waste a half of year of eligibility. He probably would have even more minutes here than at Iowa state if that was his priority. And who knows? I think with a dominant rebounder like McKay on the squad, we might have had a much better last two years.

Dawson will probably be happier at Liberty but a player who needed to transfer to a Big South bottomfeeder that is graduating four of its starters this seasons to find playing time probably wasn't good enough for Marquette anyway.

Burton I'm sure will be happier elsewhere. It sounds like he needed to get away from Milwaukee after his mother's passing. But I think he would have been a star here if he had stayed. Luke's arrival would have shifted him over to the three and I think he would have returned to the Burton we knew and loved. He was simply getting outmuscled and outsized at the four position. But with our roster, what else could we do? I think next season could have been something really special with Duane, Burton, Henry, and Luke.

But it's not just about transfers. Outside influences can have negative impact on players even if they stay. It's better to trust the coach. They are going to knew more than any outside influences 99% of the time

And yes, that is a big sacrifice - to sit out for 1.5 years and waste a half a year of eligibility.  Speaks to how bad McKay, Burton and Dawson all perceived their situations to be.

You can keep believing the burn no bridges quotes Deonte made to the Journal Sentinel.  If he was happy with his role, and felt Wojo was a good fit for him as a coach - he would have stayed at MU.  Period.  It had nothing to do with "needing to get away from Milwaukee."  

I do agree with you that the below lineup would have been really fun to see develop next season, not to mention how good they could be in 2016-2017.  We still should be pretty darn good in 2016-2017 assuming Duane, JJJ and Henry are all still here.

Duane
JJJ/Cohen
Burton
Henry
Luke

[We R Final Four]

Good point. Bigs do take longer to develop.  There is still time for Johnson though.

...and some don't develop at all.