nice piece by Reid Forgrave at Fox Sports on "Great Things Ahead" for MU

[tower912]

Cool statistic.   In 129 minutes played for MU this season, Burton had as many turnovers as rebounds. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Burton didn't want to be in Milwaukee anymore. Mayo didn't want to be in school anymore. Burton could have been a contributor and Mayo would likely be in Carlino's role. Had they stayed, MU's record would not be much different.

The thing too many fans forget is that Wojo is not building for this season. He's building for the long-term. Quick frankly, this season's W-L record doesn't matter. Sure, the coaches and players obviously want to win every game (and ever day ), but this season is more about getting players to buy in to the system and getting them experience in the system and laying the groundwork to "build the program" to what Wojo wants it to be.

[mu-rara]

The thing too many fans forget is that Wojo is not building for this season. He's building for the long-term. Quick frankly, this season's W-L record doesn't matter. Sure, the coaches and players obviously want to win every game (and ever day ), but this season is more about getting players to buy in to the system and getting them experience in the system and laying the groundwork to "build the program" to what Wojo wants it to be.

This post should be reviewed by all MU fans before they post on Scoop.

[brewcity77]

Burton didn't want to be in Milwaukee anymore. Mayo didn't want to be in school anymore. Burton could have been a contributor and Mayo would likely be in Carlino's role. Had they stayed, MU's record would not be much different.

Actually, that's not accurate. Carlino committed in late April. Mayo "left" in late July. For 3+ months it appeared we would have them both. Had that stayed the same I imagine we would see more 4-guard sets. Doubt he would have made a radical difference, maybe a few more wins but still unlikely that we'd be a tourney team, but initially Todd and Matt would have been slated to coexist.

[MerrittsMustache]

Actually, that's not accurate. Carlino committed in late April. Mayo "left" in late July. For 3+ months it appeared we would have them both. Had that stayed the same I imagine we would see more 4-guard sets. Doubt he would have made a radical difference, maybe a few more wins but still unlikely that we'd be a tourney team, but initially Todd and Matt would have been slated to coexist.

Fair enough. I was under the impression that Carlino was brought in, at least in part, because it was all but a given that Mayo and his scoring ability wouldn't be back. Could be wrong about that though.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Fair enough. I was under the impression that Carlino was brought in, at least in part, because it was all but a given that Mayo and his scoring ability wouldn't be back. Could be wrong about that though.

Mayo got a clean slate when Wojo took over. He didn't take advantage of it though.

[NersEllenson]

There's also no reason to believe Burton would have been a reliable 3rd scorer. While the kid has a wealth of athletic talent, he was averaging 4.6 ppg/1.0 rpg in 15.4 mpg against high-major teams. Even if you doubled his minutes and he had no drop in scoring and rebounding output (usually it is the other way around) would the 9.2/2.0 be that much more valuable than what Juan, Steve, and Sandy are giving us at the position?

It is possible that Burton would have flourished more with Luke entering the fold. I do believe that having a big down there would have made his job easier, so maybe he could have blossomed come league play, but regardless, it's water under the bridge now. Kid didn't want to be in Milwaukee. Best of luck to him.

This is rich - and some here talk about me cherry picking stats.  LOL.  Burton had exactly 5 games this season against "high major teams" this season.  Wojo clearly couldn't figure out how to effectively use Deonte, as his production under Wojo greatly regressed from what he accomplished under Buzz against "high major" teams.

IN a much larger sample size - just during Big East conference play last season in games Burton got 10+ minutes - which was 11 games.  He averaged 16 minutes per game, 10.1ppg. 

It is absolutely hilarious you and others here try to discredit Burton - sadly - it largely stems from  dislike toward me.  Anything you and the other clowns can do to try to discredit guys I champion - you go to all lengths to do so.

Fortunately for me, the guy I discredit - I don't have to go to great lengths to prove how poor of basketball player he is.  He gives me great evidence 9 times out of 10 - all while being given the optimum opportunity to perform - lots of minutes, and consistent minutes.  No inconsistency in playing time or role whatsoever the last two years and still can't produce.  And meanwhile guys like you try to tell the board Derrick Wilson is a better PG than Junior Cadougan or Dwight Buycks.  LOL.  Delusional.

[keefe]

Mayo got a clean slate when Wojo took over.

Uh, kinda..

[MUfan12]

And meanwhile guys like you try to tell the board Derrick Wilson is a better PG than Junior Cadougan or Dwight Buycks.  LOL.  Delusional.

Buycks played off the ball, so yes, I think Derrick is a better point guard than him.

[NersEllenson]

Buycks played off the ball, so yes, I think Derrick is a better point guard than him.

Buycks played some PG his first year at MU.  But also spent time off the ball as well.  It was a dumb comment to even bring Buycks into a comparison to Derrick Wilson in the first place.  But, certainly are entitled to your opinion as well - that Derrick is better in his role than Buycks was when playing PG. 

[LAZER]

Burton didn't want to be in Milwaukee anymore. Mayo didn't want to be in school anymore. Burton could have been a contributor and Mayo would likely be in Carlino's role. Had they stayed, MU's record would not be much different.

The thing too many fans forget is that Wojo is not building for this season. He's building for the long-term. Quick frankly, this season's W-L record doesn't matter. Sure, the coaches and players obviously want to win every game (and ever day ), but this season is more about getting players to buy in to the system and getting them experience in the system and laying the groundwork to "build the program" to what Wojo wants it to be.

I agree the t W-L record this season isn't that important, but are you pleased with the progress/development of the players of the future (Wilson, Cohen, Fischer, Johnson) so far this season?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is rich - and some here talk about me cherry picking stats.  LOL.  Burton had exactly 5 games this season against "high major teams" this season.  Wojo clearly couldn't figure out how to effectively use Deonte, as his production under Wojo greatly regressed from what he accomplished under Buzz against "high major" teams.

IN a much larger sample size - just during Big East conference play last season in games Burton got 10+ minutes - which was 11 games.  He averaged 16 minutes per game, 10.1ppg. 

It is absolutely hilarious you and others here try to discredit Burton - sadly - it largely stems from  dislike toward me.  Anything you and the other clowns can do to try to discredit guys I champion - you go to all lengths to do so.

Fortunately for me, the guy I discredit - I don't have to go to great lengths to prove how poor of basketball player he is.  He gives me great evidence 9 times out of 10 - all while being given the optimum opportunity to perform - lots of minutes, and consistent minutes.  No inconsistency in playing time or role whatsoever the last two years and still can't produce.  And meanwhile guys like you try to tell the board Derrick Wilson is a better PG than Junior Cadougan or Dwight Buycks.  LOL.  Delusional.

Fun, a post about Deonte turns into Derrick bashing. Original.  

I don't think using stats from the most recent season is "cherry picking stats." Are you saying because Burton was a better player last season that we should ignore that he struggled this season? In that case, give Steve all the minutes because his freshman year he was awesome! I don't know for sure why Burton regressed, but it certainly seemed to be because he was playing out of position and was dealing with a tragedy in his personal life. Like Brew said, I think Luke's arrival would have done wonders for Deonte.

Do you seriously believe that people try to "discredit" players because they don't like you? How big of an ego do you have? I don't give two sh*ts about which players you like. I don't think anyone else does either. Just because when you watch Marquette games you are praying that Derrick screws up so you can rub it into everyone's face doesn't mean the rest of us do. The rest of us want to see Marquette win, no matter which player is stepping up. You are the only scooper I know of who has ever actively hoped that Marquette loses to prove a point.

[LloydsLegs]

I am curious: How does this article attract virtually no response while the same old sh1t fights consume the passion and attention of Scoop??

Great perspective on Fischer, Wojo, and the future of Marquette hoops.

Well, now you know why there was almost no response...all osts lead to Ners/Derrick.

[NersEllenson]

Fun, a post about Deonte turns into Derrick bashing. Original.  

I don't think using stats from the most recent season is "cherry picking stats." Are you saying because Burton was a better player last season that we should ignore that he struggled this season? In that case, give Steve all the minutes because his freshman year he was awesome! I don't know for sure why Burton regressed, but it certainly seemed to be because he was playing out of position and was dealing with a tragedy in his personal life. Like Brew said, I think Luke's arrival would have done wonders for Deonte.

Do you seriously believe that people try to "discredit" players because they don't like you? How big of an ego do you have? I don't give two sh*ts about which players you like. I don't think anyone else does either. Just because when you watch Marquette games you are praying that Derrick screws up so you can rub it into everyone's face doesn't mean the rest of us do. The rest of us want to see Marquette win, no matter which player is stepping up. You are the only scooper I know of who has ever actively hoped that Marquette loses to prove a point.

Most players don't regress between their freshman and sophomore years.  It's clear Wojo's coaching style clashed with Deonte. 

Comparing Steve Taylor to Deonte as freshman going into sophomore years was ridiculous.  One guy was All Big East freshman, whose numbers got better as his freshman season progressed into conference play and did not have any injuries coming into his sophomore year.  The other guy was regressing as conference play began as a freshman, and then had offseason leg issues going into his sophomore year.

My ego that big??  LOL.  Not at all.  Yet if you and some of the others in your "group" want to discredit Burton as a player out of a sincere belief that he isn't/wasn't a good basketball player with great potential, much as you do JJJ - it really reeks of basketball ignorance.  Then again considering your same group tends to think Derrick Wilson is a solid basketball player, or along with Buzz wasn't the source of the problems on last year's team - I guess I shouldn't be surprised or think that your takes are personal.  They are just basketball ignorant.

And no, I don't sit at home and root for Derrick to fail.  I hate MU losing - yet I do get a degree of comical relief with regard to watching what I'm predicting to unfold (major struggles/losses) come true while you and your "friends" continue to manufacture all kinds of excuses for both Buzz and Wojo, as to why our team sucks, yet has had a LOT of talent on it last year, and again this year.

[MerrittsMustache]

I agree the t W-L record this season isn't that important, but are you pleased with the progress/development of the players of the future (Wilson, Cohen, Fischer, Johnson) so far this season?

Duane and Cohen have both definitely progressed since the beginning of the season. Fischer is definitely a much improved player since his time at IU. They all obviously have room to improve and need to get stronger but they're off to a good start. JJJ is still a bit of a mystery. He's been all over the place this season but he definitely has the ability to get back on track.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Most players don't regress between their freshman and sophomore years.  It's clear Wojo's coaching style clashed with Deonte.  

Comparing Steve Taylor to Deonte as freshman going into sophomore years was ridiculous.  One guy was All Big East freshman, whose numbers got better as his freshman season progressed into conference play and did not have any injuries coming into his sophomore year.  The other guy was regressing as conference play began as a freshman, and then had offseason leg issues going into his sophomore year.

My ego that big??  LOL.  Not at all.  Yet if you and some of the others in your "group" want to discredit Burton as a player out of a sincere belief that he isn't/wasn't a good basketball player with great potential, much as you do JJJ - it really reeks of basketball ignorance.  Then again considering your same group tends to think Derrick Wilson is a solid basketball player, or along with Buzz wasn't the source of the problems on last year's team - I guess I shouldn't be surprised or think that your takes are personal.  They are just basketball ignorant.

And no, I don't sit at home and root for Derrick to fail.  I hate MU losing - yet I do get a degree of comical relief with regard to watching what I'm predicting to unfold (major struggles/losses) come true while you and your "friends" continue to manufacture all kinds of excuses for both Buzz and Wojo, as to why our team sucks, yet has had a LOT of talent on it last year, and again this year.

You know what. Keefe and Lloyd are right. This thread is supposed to be about a really positive article about our alma mater. I let you suck me into the usual arguments. If you want to continue these types of debates, I'll gladly continue in the appropriate threads. I will no longer respond to any of these types of arguments if they are brought up in a thread that has nothing to do with the topic. I'll see you in the JjJ 25 minutes thread

Sorry everybody.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Well, now you know why there was almost no response...all osts lead to Ners/Derrick.

EVERY.FRIGGIN.THREAD

[brewcity77]

Fair enough. I was under the impression that Carlino was brought in, at least in part, because it was all but a given that Mayo and his scoring ability wouldn't be back. Could be wrong about that though.

It wouldn't surprise me if Carlino was an insurance plan, but I do believe Todd had a fair chance to put in the work over the summer with the rest of the guys to make the team. Instead he spent the summer in Chicago with his brother and didn't show up until the end of July.

[wadesworld]

It wouldn't surprise me if Carlino was an insurance plan, but I do believe Todd had a fair chance to put in the work over the summer with the rest of the guys to make the team. Instead he spent the summer in Chicago with his brother and didn't show up until the end of July.

Exactly.

[NersEllenson]

It wouldn't surprise me if Carlino was an insurance plan, but I do believe Todd had a fair chance to put in the work over the summer with the rest of the guys to make the team. Instead he spent the summer in Chicago with his brother and didn't show up until the end of July.

Is it really a cardinal sin to go play ball with your professional brother with better competition than he'd get on campus at Milwaukee?  You may recall DJO went back and played in the better North Carolina Pro Am prior to his senior season at MU.  These fringe NBA prospects want to play against the best competition they can get.  Wojo's agenda of course was more important to Wojo, than was Todd's agenda and feeling of what was best for Todd.  Certainly Todd felt what was best for his game was to play against pros in the summer.  Wojo felt he needed to be on campus working on "skill development."  Personally, I'd prefer a coach who were a little more flexible in their approach.  (As Buzz was with letting guys leave MU during the summer.)

[TeamOh]

Is it really a cardinal sin to go play ball with your professional brother with better competition than he'd get on campus at Milwaukee?  You may recall DJO went back and played in the better North Carolina Pro Am prior to his senior season at MU.  These fringe NBA prospects want to play against the best competition they can get.  Wojo's agenda of course was more important to Wojo, than was Todd's agenda and feeling of what was best for Todd.  Certainly Todd felt what was best for his game was to play against pros in the summer.  Wojo felt he needed to be on campus working on "skill development."  Personally, I'd prefer a coach who were a little more flexible in their approach.  (As Buzz was with letting guys leave MU during the summer.)

Christ.  For as much as you flaunt your superior basketball knowledge, you of all people should know there's a difference between discussing off season plans with a coach during times where the team is not doing anything organized and is gets the coach's approval to go home for the summer and just going MIA with no notice whatsoever for 6 weeks.  But of course, blame it on Wojo!  Absolutely ridiculous.  This coming from a kid who was suspended multiple times by the most lenient coach in Marquette's storied history!  And on top of that, it was a transition year!  That's perfect, during the offseason when the new coach is getting acclimated to all the players he is inheriting you go off and do your own thing and don't give the relationship a chance.  But you're right, this is on Wojo!  Unfrigginbelievable kid.  Clueless!

Do you think Bozz was letting DJO skip Bootcamp in order to play in a pickup league?  I think not!  Why would Wojo let Mayo, a kid with a checked past, do that to what is his Bootcamp (thank God it entails more than just making kids puke and actually focuses on skill development)?

But hey, guys, Wojo is the source of every single problem Mayo has had!  Todd did nothing wrong!

Hold the god damn Mayo, and thank God we have a coach who saw that and knows what the hell he's doing.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Mayo got a clean slate when Wojo took over. He didn't take advantage of it though.

......not really.....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

......not really.....

Maybe clean slate isn't the right term. But he had a slot on the team

[Dawson Rental]

Burton didn't want to be in Milwaukee anymore. Mayo didn't want to be in school anymore. Burton could have been a contributor and Mayo would likely be in Carlino's role. Had they stayed, MU's record would not be much different.

The thing too many fans forget is that Wojo is not building for this season. He's building for the long-term. Quick frankly, this season's W-L record doesn't matter. Sure, the coaches and players obviously want to win every game (and ever day ), but this season is more about getting players to buy in to the system and getting them experience in the system and laying the groundwork to "build the program" to what Wojo wants it to be.

I'm not sure what you mean about not building for this season.  It's difficult to put a wheel on when you're driving the car.  When he got here, he stopped two likely player transfers before they happened, he got Carlino (for this year only), he salvaged Cohen from a recruiting class that saw they guy who recruited them bolt from the school.  I'm not sure that installing his system is quite the shock you make it out to be.  He couldn't really be expected to try and continue what Buzz was doing, you've got to expect that he going to go with what he knows and believes in.

I guess all the above is my long winded way of saying that I can't think of a single decision that Wojo has made that can be interpreted as Wojo selling short this year in order to build for the future.  Even sitting JjJ was needed to ensure that he would get the effort he needed from players this year.  Giving a schollie to Wally Ellenson was the only decision that one could even make an argument for, but I don't know of anyone else who was available for that schollie that provided a realistic possibility of help for this year's team.  Wally is helping out this year as another high major player who is available for practice daily.

Last year was tough, this year is tougher.  The reasons have nothing to do with Wojo. Buzz had a couple of bad recruiting years and then there was a coaching change resulting in the loss of 3 or 4 recruits who would have helped.  IMO, consistent excellence is the result of two things;

   1. Get a very good coach, and
   2. keep the sucker around for at least 15 years.

Failing that, the only other alternative (very rare) is to be a Butler where the next coach is always already there ready to take over.