Marquette raises tuition 3.5 percent

[Benny B]

I assume that all of y'all that are bitching about the cost of a Marquette education have donated generously to the endowment.  I also assume that none of you are among those that have proposed that Marquette needs to get all new dorms/build its own arena/buy back the medical school/purchase naming rights to the BC/restart the football team/have all classes taught by tenured professors.

Hey now... MU's on-campus MBB arena, a/k/a The Benny B Memorial Thunderdome, which is slated for groundbreaking sometime in the late 2030s will be entirely funded by donations from the MUScoop Foundation and the Benny B Family Trust.

[muwarrior69]

I love the people who say that we have an increase in standard of living compared to 25 or 50 years ago. (I'm not talking about social change, etc. etc.). It just seems like we're paying substantially more for housing, education, food and transportation as a percentage of our overall spending than we have for generations. New home prices are at their highest ever (adjusted for inflation). Cars have practically doubled the last decade or so. Tuition up 300% or 400% the last couple decades.

But, hey, iPads. So we're all even.

Not to mention the cost of government. When I attended MU the sales tax in New Jersey was 2%, now 7%; there was no state income tax, now 3.5 -10% based on income; property tax was 400/year, now 10000 per year. I could go on but you get the picture.

[chapman]

That's a fair point too. Almost everyone I know who went to a UW-something school took at least 5 years.

One of the reasons I got out after one semester at UW.  My advisor told me I would be on a five year schedule.  MU promised I could get out in four if I took a reasonable course load.  I stayed one summer and came away with an extra major and minor on top of it.  

Not to mention the cost of government. When I attended MU the sales tax in New Jersey was 2%, now 7%; there was no state income tax, now 3.5 -10% based on income; property tax was 400/year, now 10000 per year. I could go on but you get the picture.

A co-worker in Jersey pays $11,000 more in property taxes than me, on a home valued at $100k more.  Just crazy.

[GGGG]

That's a fair point too. Almost everyone I know who went to a UW-something school took at least 5 years.

How many of those people either changed majors or were undecided for a length of time? 

[Coleman]

How many of those people either changed majors or were undecided for a length of time? 

Perhaps some, but certainly not all.

My mom teaches and advises at UW-Oshkosh. She has also said that 5 years is par for the course, at least in her department. There just aren't enough spaces in many classes, so you have to wait to take your requirements.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not really. There's no *incentive* to reduce cost because federally backed student loans are available to everyone of any circumstance, for damn near any amount, regardless of the risks of repayment ***because the school always gets paid by the feds even if the student defaults***

The schools can charge ANYTHING THEY WANT and they will get paid. There is 0 reason for them to compete on price (besides not screwing their students... but who cares about them right?)

Took awhile, but someone nailed it.

[LloydsLegs]

My son is a senior in high school and we are dealing with these questions in a very real and direct way right now.  We're very fortunate.  We have been able to invest in a quality private high school (after investing in private elementary school) and my son has worked very hard and done well.  As someone who attended (and loved) a private college, this has become very difficult for me.  To illustrate, I'll address three schools that my son applied to, was accepted by, and offered merit-based aid.  The third school, one he really likes, I'll include the scholarship he's already been offered and the best case scenario for the one he's still pursuing.

School No. 1 (In-State Public)
Tuition:  14,000
R&B:  11,000
Scholarship:  9,000 (renewable - another 2,000 possible, but not awarded yet)
Net Cost Per Year:  16,000

School No. 2 (Out-of-State Jesuit)
Tuition:  44,000
R&B:  13,000
Scholarship:  26,000 (renewable)
Net Cost Per Year:  31,000

School No. 3 (Out-of-State Private)
Tuition:  31,000
R&B:  11,000
Scholarship:  19,500 (renewable -- this is best case scenario; only $6,000 awarded so far)
Net Cost Per Year:  22,500


It is really hard for us to justify paying the difference -- either currently or spread out over the next 20 years or so.  In fact, we can't justify it.  This is made all the more apparent by the fact that the public school is pretty clearly the best school of the three.  The Jesuit school offered scholarships totaling more than $100,000 and they're still not even close.  It's been a bit of a slow awakening for us, but we're coming to the conclusion that our four kids are almost certainly going to attend public colleges unless we/they can figure out a way to make the cost of the privates competitive.

With only two kids, it's not as rough.  Son is a sophomore at private Catholic college that offers no automatic scholarships (the kind Sultan described), but lots of aid to those with need (those in the middle get squeezed).  Basically paying max tuition.

Daughter is a senior in high school, applying to 7 catholic colleges plus one private non-Catholic.  She has heard from 4, and 3 of those (including MU) give the "automatic" scholarship of between $10,000 and $24,000 per year (Nova does not).  To a certain extent, it seems to be based on grades/test scores, but it is not clear at all and it seems that most kids get them.

The three schools from which she has not heard do not offer the automatic (we call it "the Sheesh"), so I am pretty sure she will go to one of those or Nova. 

BTW, Dayton does it right.  They give you a number that you will pay all four years.  If tuition increases, so does your aid package.  In addition, as long as you fill out a FAFSA form, your books are covered - doesn't matter whether you qualify for any aid.  Given that some of these freakin' books are $250 plus, that is huge.

As we started saving for this before the kids were born, they have a choice - they can get a "credit" for any 529 money saved due to a scholarship that we will apply to grad school or use all of that 529 money now.  My parents did a similar thing for me (when tuition at MU was around $2,500 for the year):  I was able to bank for grad school the semester they didn't have to pay tuition when I finished MU a semester early.  (And to make it better, I stayed at MU for that last semester and worked but didn't take any classes-worst roommate ever).

[StillAWarrior]

BTW, Dayton does it right.  They give you a number that you will pay all four years.  If tuition increases, so does your aid package.  In addition, as long as you fill out a FAFSA form, your books are covered - doesn't matter whether you qualify for any aid.  Given that some of these freakin' books are $250 plus, that is huge.

Still waiting to hear from Dayton.  Based on what I've heard, I think we should get a pretty decent package there, and I really like the locked in price.  I also like the campus owned houses.  But it's still going to be hard for them to compete with the public school. 

[LloydsLegs]

No doubt.  And those essentially university owned neighborhoods are impressive.

[jsglow]

Lloyd, I'd like to be careful about the term 'automatic'.  What's being described are the merit based scholarships that private universities offer to entice their most attractive applicants to matriculate.  Think of it a bit like airline seat pricing.  Schools like Marquette attempt to raise their profile/ranking by attracting the best.  Besides all the nice buildings and fancy programs, they all compete with the almighty dollar.

First, I don't want to raise the false hope that a majority of applicants qualify for significant merit based money.  The mean enrolled Frosh each August is a Top 25% approximate 27 ACT kid.  I looked for statistics on the application pool (I used to know these when I served on the Admissions Committee) and couldn't come up with them quickly but I believe the average ACT for the 22,000 annual applications is right around 24.  So that sets our universe these days.  As I think most here know, Marquette accepts roughly 50% of the applicant pool (about 11,000) to achieve the desired 1,950-2,000 Frosh enrollment.

Okay, now to merit based scholarships.  It varies year to year and this way oversimplifies it but I believe that very modest scholarships (like $2,000 - $3,000 annually) start at right around 27 or 28 on the ACT, among many other factors of course, basically right at the average enrolled student line but at a dollar figure that doesn't make much of a difference.  Of course they go up from there as the student becomes more attractive to the university getting up to approximately 50% of tuition for the best and the brightest.  (Yes, there are a handful of full rides but I digress.)  Marquette like to mention that 90% of their students get some form of either need based or merit based financial support.  But its important to know that for many it's not huge money.

One more reality.  Marquette traditionally lags its competition by a meaningful amount.  This can be traced directly to the endowment and represents a very major hurdle if the goal is to move from US News #75 to something like US News #50.  Not saying that's the goal these days but we like to talk like we're BC or GTown.  The good news is that fundraising has really picked up in the last 6 months.  Hope that's informative for folks.  

[Benny B]

Still waiting to hear from Dayton.  Based on what I've heard, I think we should get a pretty decent package there, and I really like the locked in price.  I also like the campus owned houses.  But it's still going to be hard for them to compete with the public school. 

A major bonus with UD.... you don't have to worry about your kid begging you for a new Jetta, BMW, Grand Cherokee, etc. to take to college.   Just buy them a used Chevy Cavalier for their HS graduation and they'll fit right in.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

A major bonus with UD.... you don't have to worry about your kid begging you for a new Jetta, BMW, Grand Cherokee, etc. to take to college.   Just buy them a used Chevy Cavalier for their HS graduation and they'll fit right in.

A new Jetta?

[Dr. Blackheart]

MU has over a half billion in endowment, so things like building new dorms and classroom facilities should not be an issue as it relates to tuition. It has been historically low but on the rise finally with the new regime. That said, in the near past, MU has spent a lot of this money on administrative buildings, rehabbing outdated existing schools, and a new Jesuit Residence. The new Law school is a prime addition but does not benefit the undergrad student who is burdened with the overwhelming majority of the operating costs.

Lovell has stated he wants to return the focus back to the general student body via tuition cost control and scholarship grants, an innovation curriculum agenda, and direct general facilities like modern day dorm and academic facilities. Let's hope so.

http://www.marquette.edu/endowment/endowment-performance.shtml

[GooooMarquette]

Took awhile, but someone nailed it.

Yep.  Why control costs when you can make everyone think they can "afford"  higher prices with federal loans?

[mu-rara]

Raise it more! Help keep the riff raff out!

There are members of the BOT who believe this.

[jsglow]

MU has over a half billion in endowment, so things like building new dorms and classroom facilities should not be an issue as it relates to tuition. It has been historically low but on the rise finally with the new regime. That said, in the near past, MU has spent a lot of this money on administrative buildings, rehabbing outdated existing schools, and a new Jesuit Residence. The new Law school is a prime addition but does not benefit the undergrad student who is burdened with the overwhelming majority of the operating costs.

Lovell has stated he wants to return the focus back to the general student body via tuition cost control and scholarship grants, an innovation curriculum agenda, and direct general facilities like modern day dorm and academic facilities. Let's hope so.

http://www.marquette.edu/endowment/endowment-performance.shtml

I'm sure you appreciate that endowment gifts must be used for the purpose intended by the donor.  Buildings are relatively easy because folks get to put their names over the front door.  But no doubt big money donors can be guided to a certain extent.  (Fund this building for $xx or endow this Chair for $xx.)  Merit based direct scholarships come out of 'Current Use' scholarship funds just as athletic scholarships come out of the current use Blue/Gold Fund.

Nice to see that we've passed $500 million.  I hadn't known that until now.  Thanks Dr. 

[jficke13]

The question I have is when the student loan bubble bursts, and hundreds of schools die off, how will MU fare? How are we preparing for that eventuality?

[jsglow]

The question I have is when the student loan bubble bursts, and hundreds of schools die off, how will MU fare? How are we preparing for that eventuality?

Well, the simple answer is that we're working very hard to alter the curve.  It's a little like fixing Social Security for the government.  Bottom line, MU absolutely understands that changes are necessary.  The process began with the Strategic Plan.  Real cost containment began in the last couple of years.  Fundraising has picked up considerably under Lovell.  But it's a challenge for all private universities, especially the small regional ones.

[GGGG]

Not really. There's no *incentive* to reduce cost because federally backed student loans are available to everyone of any circumstance, for damn near any amount, regardless of the risks of repayment ***because the school always gets paid by the feds even if the student defaults***

The schools can charge ANYTHING THEY WANT and they will get paid. There is 0 reason for them to compete on price (besides not screwing their students... but who cares about them right?)

Federal loans are a tricky business.  I understand the issue vis-a-vis cost control.  However IMO you have to have a loan program otherwise you are simply making higher education only affordable to those who can write a check.  The other issue is that people who want to eliminate (or modify) the program seem to have the attitude that the consumer is dumb.  And yeah, there are a lot of dumb consumers.  But there are also a lot of smart consumers that understand that a monthly student loan payment with a degree is better than a high school education.

If you can find a way to balance the loan programs with a cost control aspect, I am all for it.  

[Benny B]

Federal loans are a tricky business.  I understand the issue vis-a-vis cost control.  However IMO you have to have a loan program otherwise you are simply making higher education only affordable to those who can write a check.  The other issue is that people who want to eliminate (or modify) the program seem to have the attitude that the consumer is dumb.  And yeah, there are a lot of dumb consumers.  But there are also a lot of smart consumers that understand that a monthly student loan payment with a degree is better than a high school education.

If you can find a way to balance the loan programs with a cost control aspect, I am all for it.  

Simple - Remove the discharge exemption on student loans in bankruptcy court and require the recipient institution to carry a portion of all loans granted to their students on their own balance sheet.  You'd be surprised at how quickly tuition and loans would get under control.

[GGGG]

Simple - Remove the discharge exemption on student loans in bankruptcy court and require the recipient institution to carry a portion of all loans granted to their students on their own balance sheet.  You'd be surprised at how quickly tuition and loans would get under control.

Not bad.

I would also limit the increase "cost of attendance" that is reported to the Department of Education to the rate of inflation.

[jficke13]

Federal loans are a tricky business.  I understand the issue vis-a-vis cost control.  However IMO you have to have a loan program otherwise you are simply making higher education only affordable to those who can write a check.  The other issue is that people who want to eliminate (or modify) the program seem to have the attitude that the consumer is dumb.  And yeah, there are a lot of dumb consumers.  But there are also a lot of smart consumers that understand that a monthly student loan payment with a degree is better than a high school education.

If you can find a way to balance the loan programs with a cost control aspect, I am all for it.  

Step one: Make the issuance of loans contingent on a showing of reasonable chance of successful repayment. Do this by evaluating schools and (just spitballing here) making an aggressive accreditation process to weed out the scam schools.

For those of us unfortunate enough to be lawyers, we complain that schools like Thomas Cooley and Thomas Jefferson School of Law exist and are ABA accredited. Those (God awful) schools charge almost as much as Harvard, because they can and will still get paid. If the feds looked at the school and said "hmmm, 35% employment rate, we're not backing loans to students who matriculate there," then we might be able to stop the truly oppressive loaning of money.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

MU has over a half billion in endowment, so things like building new dorms and classroom facilities should not be an issue as it relates to tuition. It has been historically low but on the rise finally with the new regime. That said, in the near past, MU has spent a lot of this money on administrative buildings, rehabbing outdated existing schools, and a new Jesuit Residence. The new Law school is a prime addition but does not benefit the undergrad student who is burdened with the overwhelming majority of the operating costs.

Lovell has stated he wants to return the focus back to the general student body via tuition cost control and scholarship grants, an innovation curriculum agenda, and direct general facilities like modern day dorm and academic facilities. Let's hope so.

http://www.marquette.edu/endowment/endowment-performance.shtml

This is good to hear... and from a big picture perspective:

MU struggled with enrollment in the late 80's and early 90's. The neighborhood was bad, most of the dorms were outdated, enrollment was down.

MU did get a new the new AMU, Campus Town, and Cudahy, but for the most part, capital improvements were limited/differed. (I'm not sure when the Rec Center was built)

Therefore, in the past 20 years, MU has had a good deal of "catching up" to do with some capital improvements (dorms, admin. buildings, classrooms, etc.).

Now, I completely understand this, and I understand why MU has been spending money on improving the school facilities, and needs the money to afford these facilities.

BUT, we are reaching a point where MU is going to have to learn to "make do" with some of what they have. IMO, they can't just keep cranking up the capitol campaigns and the yearly tuition and shrug and say they "have to keep up with other schools". That's a mistake of epic proportions.

MU doesn't need to be a used Honda, but it also doesn't need to be a Range Rover either. There is a good amount of middle ground where MU can provide a high end education and experience at a competitive rate.

VALUE is going to become more and more important. Federal loans or not, people are eventually compare X to Y, and if X is 30% cheaper, the prospective student will live without the brand new Rec Center that Y just built.

Sorry for the rant, but over the past couple of years I've come to the stark realization that my kids will likely NOT have the option to attend MU because the costs are just becoming too burdensome.

MU needs to have a good long term vision of how they are going to attract students 15-20 years from now. $150K in tuition probably isn't going to work.

[StillAWarrior]

Sorry for the rant, but over the past couple of years I've come to the stark realization that my kids will likely NOT have the option to attend MU because the costs are just becoming too burdensome.

Welcome to the club.  It's a sad thing for a parent to realize. I'm finding that the five stages of grief apply. 

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

The question I have is when the student loan bubble bursts, and hundreds of schools die off, how will MU fare? How are we preparing for that eventuality?

I wonder when this will happen. We've kept other federal programs going long after they should have bellied up. We did escalate extremely quickly.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/FGCCSAQ027S

Will be incredibly interesting to see. I think MU would do just fine, because I think all the smarter kids at the USN&WR 100-200 ranked schools will have to go somewhere.

Even at MU, professor salaries and administrator headcounts would have to come down dramatically.