Watching Jameel McKay

[VegasWarrior77]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  59 minutes ago
Iowa State's Jameel McKay in five Big 12 games: 9.0 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 3.4 BPG, 23.2 MPG. The motor NEVER STOPS. Impact addition for Cyclones.

[tower912]

When McKay signed with MU, I think nobody was really thinking about a 6th year for Otule.   The assumption was that he would be done.    Starting frontcourt of McKay, Gardner, and Jamil, with STjr, Juan, and Deonte coming off of the bench.    Chris returned and instead of McKay starting, Buzz wanted him to red shirt.   And if not, he was going to be on the bench not seeing minutes while Otule/Gardner started at the 4/5.  McKay arrived, did not see the playing time that he wanted, and left.     

[StillWarriors]

Having watched McKay a few times now, there is no way he wouldn't have deserved significant minutes last year (not saying he would have gotten them), and likely would have changed the complexion of the team. There is no way they would have been as lethargic as they were at times with his energy out there. Something about the way the guy plays, and even the look with the hair flying around, is exciting and seems to generate energy. That was a huge loss. It appears the move will work out best for McKay though, he will be a key cog on a team with legitimate Final 4 hopes this year. It's tough to watch and wonder what might have been, but that's the current climate of college hoops. I hope it works out as well for Deonte.

[GOO]

I sure missed on my evaluation McKay, as I didn't think a whole lot of him, other than athletic potential.  However, he may not have had a great impact on our team last year since we had no shooters and teams packed the lane.  He would have had bodies on him all the time and he didn't have the strength/size to overcome last year.  He would have helped, but I'm not sure how much given the other talent we had inside. 

Is it true that Buzz wanted to red shirt him and this was part of wanting to leave?  I heard that, but I don't know if it was true. 

A shooter last year would have had a big impact on last years team. 

[Goose]

It is my understanding that Buzz wanted him to redshirt and that main reason for his departure.

[willie warrior]

It is my understanding that Buzz wanted him to redshirt and that main reason for his departure.

If that is the case, then it still is a shining example of Buzz's great personnel moves. The guy obviously chose to redshirt somewhere else and not put up with the Buzzster.

[tower912]

It is my understanding that Buzz wanted him to redshirt and that main reason for his departure.

Another example of Buzz having not checked out prior to the season.   FWIW, he tried to get Steve to take a medical redshirt.  IMO, at the beginning of last season, Buzz thought he could be successful with Otule and Gardner starting and both playing 25+ minutes a game, alongside Jamil up front with his 35 minutes.   He asked McKay and Taylor to redshirt, as he didn't think he could find minutes for them and they would be a year stronger (and healed) for this season.  And then it all fell apart.   

[bilsu]

Part of me thinks that Gardner wanting to play the four is what set last season going downhill. Buzz gave him a chance, but in the end it did not really work. Playing Gardner at 4 in practice resulted in McKay playing center in practice, which led to McKay transferring. I do not think we would of lost McKay, if Gardner had been told he was playing center. However, I cannot really blame Buzz for giving a senior a chance, but somehow he should of got the message to McKay from day 1 that he would be playing forward and not center.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It is my understanding that Buzz wanted him to redshirt and that main reason for his departure.

Interesting. Do you know if it was because Buzz wanted to save him for later? Or was it an administration decision to try and make sure that McKay was caught up academically coming from a juco?

[Goose]

TAMU

My understanding was a Buzz decision. That said, do not know behind the scenes on the topic. Regardless I do not think the idea was well received. Now two former Milwaukee kids are ISU and wish both were here.

[Lennys Tap]

Part of me thinks that Gardner wanting to play the four is what set last season going downhill. Buzz gave him a chance, but in the end it did not really work. Playing Gardner at 4 in practice resulted in McKay playing center in practice, which led to McKay transferring. I do not think we would of lost McKay, if Gardner had been told he was playing center. However, I cannot really blame Buzz for giving a senior a chance, but somehow he should of got the message to McKay from day 1 that he would be playing forward and not center.

If Vander and McKay stay, our line up/minutes distribution can look like this:

PG: Derrick 20, Vander 20
2G: Todd 25, Vander 15
3  : Juan 15, Deonte 15, Jamil 10
4  : Jamil 20, McKay 20
5  : Davante 25, Otule 15

That's a top 15 team capable of winning the Big East. Sub out Vander and Jameel for Thomas, Dawson and Steve Taylor Jr (with a sprinkling of JJJ) and you've got a train wreck. Buzz the GM was caught with his pants down on Vander. Buzz the coach miscalculated on Davante being able to play the 4 - probably was too loyal. Ultimately it falls (and should fall) on him. But all the other crap (checking out, not trying to win, etc.) is just that - crap.

[GGGG]

If Vander and McKay stay, our line up/minutes distribution can look like this:

PG: Derrick 20, Vander 20
2G: Todd 25, Vander 15
3  : Juan 15, Deonte 15, Jamil 10
4  : Jamil 20, McKay 20
5  : Davante 25, Otule 15

That's a top 15 team capable of winning the Big East. Sub out Vander and Jameel for Thomas, Dawson and Steve Taylor Jr (with a sprinkling of JJJ) and you've got a train wreck. Buzz the GM was caught with his pants down on Vander. Buzz the coach miscalculated on Davante being able to play the 4 - probably was too loyal. Ultimately it falls (and should fall) on him. But all the other crap (checking out, not trying to win, etc.) is just that - crap.

Buzz also should be blamed for not having adequate back ups at the guard positions.  Jamail Jones, TJ Taylor and Jamal Ferguson were all clear mistakes that sapped depth.

[tower912]

Yes-ish.   He had Duane, JJJ, and Dawson coming in.   None of them panned out the way he probably thought they would.   Also, I seem to recall that this was the first time the administration told him 'no' in regards to signing a late JUCO to take Vander's place. 

[GGGG]

Yes-ish.   He had Duane, JJJ, and Dawson coming in.   None of them panned out the way he probably thought they would.   Also, I seem to recall that this was the first time the administration told him 'no' in regards to signing a late JUCO to take Vander's place. 

Except Jamail Jones and TJ Taylor both transferred before John Dawson and JJJ committed.  Simply put, if Buzz doesn't make a mistake, we don't have to take a commit from the likes of Dawson.

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz also should be blamed for not having adequate back ups at the guard positions. 

Duane's injury hurt but you're right. The dropoff from Vander to Jake was huge.

[mu03eng]

TAMU

My understanding was a Buzz decision. That said, do not know behind the scenes on the topic. Regardless I do not think the idea was well received. Now two former Milwaukee kids are ISU and wish both were here.

It was a Buzz call as I've been told

[mu03eng]

Another example of Buzz having not checked out prior to the season.   FWIW, he tried to get Steve to take a medical redshirt.  IMO, at the beginning of last season, Buzz thought he could be successful with Otule and Gardner starting and both playing 25+ minutes a game, alongside Jamil up front with his 35 minutes.   He asked McKay and Taylor to redshirt, as he didn't think he could find minutes for them and they would be a year stronger (and healed) for this season.  And then it all fell apart.   

I think Buzz checked out that season, but not until later.  The turmoil, with McKay as part of it, is what led to administration actions/opinions plus some new "JUCO rules" turning Buzz off to MU. 

Jae Crowder was actually the starting point for the "JUCO issue" that gets thrown around here a lot so it goes way back.

[MUfan12]

The turmoil, with McKay as part of it, is what led to administration actions/opinions plus some new "JUCO rules" turning Buzz off to MU. 

Hadn't heard that. My understanding was that Buzz wasn't pleased (and rightfully so) that McKay had to add on a bunch of classes his second year at Indian Hills because MU changed the standards for JUCO transfers.

That's what made the transfer so puzzling. He had to bust his ass to get enough of the right credits to get to MU, only to leave so soon.

[mu03eng]

Hadn't heard that. My understanding was that Buzz wasn't pleased (and rightfully so) that McKay had to add on a bunch of classes his second year at Indian Hills because MU changed the standards for JUCO transfers.

That's what made the transfer so puzzling. He had to bust his ass to get enough of the right credits to get to MU, only to leave so soon.

Standards didn't change, MU took more "control" of the classes because of what happened with Jae.

[GGGG]

I think some of the new Juco rules were implemented before McKay even announced that he was going to attend MU.  McKay had to take a bunch of credits because MU was no longer going to take Phy Ed credit as part of a transfer.  (Which makes some sense without a Phy Ed degree.)  But that is the main reason players like Jae aren't close to graduating.  It does make we wonder about some of the Jucos we are tracking now.

EDIT:  Here is the policy in question.  http://www.marquette.edu/explore/transfer/transfer-students-credits.php

"Trade school, job training, military experience, physical education or continuing education courses typically do not transfer."

[MUfan12]

I think some of the new Juco rules were implemented before McKay even announced that he was going to attend MU.  McKay had to take a bunch of credits because MU was no longer going to take Phy Ed credit as part of a transfer.  (Which makes some sense without a Phy Ed degree.)

I'd have to check, but I think the Phy Ed thing went into effect after he had committed.

[GGGG]

I'd have to check, but I think the Phy Ed thing went into effect after he had committed.

Yeah I think you are correct now that I look back on it.  Its just that McKay committed so early that they had time to work on his credit issue.

[mu03eng]

I think some of the new Juco rules were implemented before McKay even announced that he was going to attend MU.  McKay had to take a bunch of credits because MU was no longer going to take Phy Ed credit as part of a transfer.  (Which makes some sense without a Phy Ed degree.)  But that is the main reason players like Jae aren't close to graduating.  It does make we wonder about some of the Jucos we are tracking now.

EDIT:  Here is the policy in question.  http://www.marquette.edu/explore/transfer/transfer-students-credits.php

"Trade school, job training, military experience, physical education or continuing education courses typically do not transfer."

Jae's transcript was a mess, and I'm not bagging on him, but it took some spit and bailing wire to pull that off and MU just didn't want to have to deal with that and expose the program if they ran too long without a guide rail.

[bilsu]

Interesting. Do you know if it was because Buzz wanted to save him for later? Or was it an administration decision to try and make sure that McKay was caught up academically coming from a juco?

Buzz did not want to redshirt him. However, McKay said he was transferring, because he did not think he was going to play where and as much as he wanted to. My understanding was that Buzz said you have to sit out, if you want to transfer and as long as your willing to sit out, you could redshirt here. It basically, was a last ditch effort to keep McKay.

[Earl Tatum]

Whoever wrote Jamal Ferguson, Jamail Jones as Buzz's mistakes, don't forget D J Newbill. Buzz let the convicts
run the show.