Marquette's Offense

[Dr. Blackheart]

Looking at Pomeroy team ratings over the 14 seasons that his system has been up, this is the worst offensively efficient season for a Marquette team....and it not even close. MU is also last in the Big East.

MU started the season very poorly defensively and Wojo made great adjustments. What does he have to do to on the offensive end?

I have commented in various threads about my ideas, so I will refrain here, but what do others think? At this point, with three transfers who would have been the future gone, and now JJJ in the doghouse, there really is no playing for tomorrow. So, his real only option is his sticking with the upperclassmen who are limited. Thoughts?

[mattyv1908]

Look, I've been the most vocal postgame about JJJ not playing with an eight man roster but I think it's premature to say he's in the dog house don't you?  It's only one game.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Look, I've been the most vocal postgame about JJJ not playing with an eight man roster but I think it's premature to say he's in the dog house don't you?  It's only one game.

Huh? He was held out of a game for his effort, was called out publically by his coach, was getting reamed in the Creighton game in public by the coaches...how is that not in the doghouse? Outhouse, maybe not.

[79Warrior]

Huh? He was held out of a game for his effort, was called out publically by his coach, was getting reamed in the Creighton game in public by the coaches...how is that not in the doghouse? Outhouse, maybe not.

He put himself there. If he does not want to put forth the effort he can move on. The whining about a coach doing is job is laughable.

[MuMark]

I see this as a talent problem.

When MU has had good offensive teams that they have had guys who could make plays off the dribble. Wade, Jae  DJO, Jimmy, Jerel, Wes, DJ, Vander and even Jamil and Junior could all make plays for themselves or others off the dribble.

We have nobody who can do that consistently on this team. I think Duane will in time but because his handle isn't strong yet he defers to Derrick and Carlino.

Shooting is obviously also a big problem.

 You have to have at least 1 or the other and obviously you would love both(MU final 4 team).

[Blackhat]

Need more paint touches, imo.

[brandx]

Simple answer. Eight players on the roster - only two of whom have played a lot of minutes before this year.

The offense is as good as could be expected given the situation.

[tower912]

There is no problem with this team.   There is a problem with preseason expectations by some people for this team.   Anybody who looked at this team and, based on what they had accomplished at the COLLEGE level, not the HIGH SCHOOL level, and thought this was a tourney team was deluding themselves.   Wojo has done a really nice job with the hand he has been dealt.    Just not enough bullets in the gun. 

[NersEllenson]

We won't be better on offense until next season.  Period.

Going into this season prior to the defection of Mayo, then Burton - there was a lot of reason for optimism, with the Carlino transfer.

Sadly, for whatever reasons, Wojo couldn't make it work with Mayo, Burton, Dawson, and now apparently JJJ.

I do find it slightly ridiculous to say Wojo was dealt a bad hand this season.  Wojo inherited/recruited a roster of 8 Top 100 players to start the season - Cohen, Duane, JJJ, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan, Carlino - and add Mayo to that mix - there was PLENTY of ability and talent on this team to be an NCAA tourney team.

[GGGG]

We won't be better on offense until next season.  Period.

Going into this season prior to the defection of Mayo, then Burton - there was a lot of reason for optimism, with the Carlino transfer.

Sadly, for whatever reasons, Wojo couldn't make it work with Mayo, Burton, Dawson, and now apparently JJJ.

I do find it slightly ridiculous to say Wojo was dealt a bad hand this season.  Wojo inherited/recruited a roster of 8 Top 100 players to start the season - Cohen, Duane, JJJ, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan, Carlino - and add Mayo to that mix - there was PLENTY of ability and talent on this team to be an NCAA tourney team.

There was a reason Marquette was picked to finish near the bottom of the BE by a lot of people.  Unless you have one-and-done type talent, raw talent without experience isn't going to win a lot of basketball games.

[muwarrior97]

Hurts to watch our O at times, especially 2nd half performances

BTW - hope no one's watching McKay flying around Hilton for ISU, him and Burton gonna make a bunch of highlight reels next couple years and to think we have limited options in our frontcourt

[esotericmindguy]

Nm

[esotericmindguy]

How do you expect to have a good offense when Juan and Derrick play over 30 minutes each. They're flat out awful on the offensive end. Hard to get mad because there is no alternative. McKay would be nice.

Another thing. Without even looking for it, there was at least 4 times Fischer had post position and he didn't get the ball. Part of the problem is derricks player sags off 5 feet off, but there seems to be no focus to get him the ball. I cannot fathom why he doesn't touch the ball nearly every time down. Drives me insane how many 3s Marquette chucks. However, if you're going to do it, why not let Fischer draw a double team and shoot wide open 3s?

And I'm not buying the defense. That zone allows wide open shots every time down. It seems to me the strategy is hope they miss..

[Dr. Blackheart]

He put himself there. If he does not want to put forth the effort he can move on. The whining about a coach doing is job is laughable.

Where did I whine? None of us know what is behind the current situation, but on the surface I agree with the coach. This thread is about MU's offense and the adjustments considering the current roster situation, not JJJ's DNP, other than the fact he is getting less time.

[brewcity77]

Fischer will be a good offensive player, but right now is swarmed under by defenses focused on stopping him.

Duane will be a good offensive player, but right now is a bit too erratic and playing like a freshman.

Sandy and Jajuan both have good offensive potential, but right now look like young guys, which they are.

Carlino, Derrick, and Juan have been better than anyone should have expected them to look on offense. Each has had their most efficient offensive season as a collegiate player.

Steve looks like a guy who will never reach his potential because he doesn't have the legs he did as a freshman.

That's everyone. Until we get some more bodies up front to take pressure off Luke, until Duane, Sandy, and Jajuan grow up, and until we get more and better offensive options than Carlino, Derrick, and Juan, I can't see it improving. We have some shooters, but not enough to shoot us out of slumps.

What encourages me is watching those upperclassmen. That tells me that Wojo knows how to get through to guys and bring out their best. It will take time, but if he can ultimately bring the best out of Fischer, Duane, Jajuan, Sandy, Henry, Wally, Haanif, Matt, and the other numerous players we are in on for next year, I'm confident the offense will be better as we go forward.

[Class71]

We won't be better on offense until next season.  Period.

Going into this season prior to the defection of Mayo, then Burton - there was a lot of reason for optimism, with the Carlino transfer.

Sadly, for whatever reasons, Wojo couldn't make it work with Mayo, Burton, Dawson, and now apparently JJJ.

I do find it slightly ridiculous to say Wojo was dealt a bad hand this season.  Wojo inherited/recruited a roster of 8 Top 100 players to start the season - Cohen, Duane, JJJ, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan, Carlino - and add Mayo to that mix - there was PLENTY of ability and talent on this team to be an NCAA tourney team.

Sure, the talent was there but are/were they coachable? For some is it has been clearly questionable.

[GGGG]

Sure, the talent was there but are/were they coachable? For some is it has been clearly questionable.

Remember, there are a lot of people on this board who think that a player's problem with the coach is pretty much always the fault of the coach.

[NersEllenson]

There was a reason Marquette was picked to finish near the bottom of the BE by a lot of people.  Unless you have one-and-done type talent, raw talent without experience isn't going to win a lot of basketball games.

Yes, preseason expectations weren't high for this MU team.  However, the year before, expectations were incredibly high - Win the Big East - with Buzz's most veteran team - yet we missed the NIT...proof of course the pre-season expectations and projections aren't frequently accurate.

This year we return a highly experienced senior PG, the only guy who isn't a Top 100 player on the roster, yet the 7 other guys all at least 2+ years into their college careers other than Cohen - and we are supposed to be awful?  Now, if Wojo were able to work it out with Todd, retain Burton - add those two guys to this team??  I just disagree with those who want to say Wojo was dealt a tough hand - he came into a program with 6 Top 100 players, (Mayo not in that mix) retained Buzz's recruit Cohen and added Carlino to make the Number 8 Top 100.  We had legit 22+ win potential with a depth chart/lineup of:

Carlino/Derrick
Todd/Duane
JJJ/Cohen
Juan/Burton
Luke/Steve

[Jay Bee]

Fischer will be a good offensive player, but right now is swarmed under by defenses focused on stopping him.

Duane will be a good offensive player, but right now is a bit too erratic and playing like a freshman.

Sandy and Jajuan both have good offensive potential, but right now look like young guys, which they are.

Carlino, Derrick, and Juan have been better than anyone should have expected them to look on offense. Each has had their most efficient offensive season as a collegiate player.

Steve looks like a guy who will never reach his potential because he doesn't have the legs he did as a freshman.

That's everyone. Until we get some more bodies up front to take pressure off Luke, until Duane, Sandy, and Jajuan grow up, and until we get more and better offensive options than Carlino, Derrick, and Juan, I can't see it improving. We have some shooters, but not enough to shoot us out of slumps.

What encourages me is watching those upperclassmen. That tells me that Wojo knows how to get through to guys and bring out their best. It will take time, but if he can ultimately bring the best out of Fischer, Duane, Jajuan, Sandy, Henry, Wally, Haanif, Matt, and the other numerous players we are in on for next year, I'm confident the offense will be better as we go forward.

I'd echo most of this. You can disagree with brewcity on this, but you'll be wrong.

The one thing I would say is.. it can (and should) get better ... MU's avg ppp of 95 in the BEast is unacceptable and will rise.

[jesmu84]

Remember, there are a lot of people on this board who think that a player's problem with the coach is pretty much always the fault of the coach.

And a lot who believe that because a player was a top 100, that each and every one of them should pan out to all-conference players. Because zero top 100 players have ever been "busts".

[jesmu84]

Yes, preseason expectations weren't high for this MU team.  However, the year before, expectations were incredibly high - Win the Big East - with Buzz's most veteran team - yet we missed the NIT...proof of course the pre-season expectations and projections aren't frequently accurate.

This year we return a highly experienced senior PG, the only guy who isn't a Top 100 player on the roster, yet the 7 other guys all at least 2+ years into their college careers other than Cohen - and we are supposed to be awful?  Now, if Wojo were able to work it out with Todd, retain Burton - add those two guys to this team??  I just disagree with those who want to say Wojo was dealt a tough hand - he came into a program with 6 Top 100 players, (Mayo not in that mix) retained Buzz's recruit Cohen and added Carlino to make the Number 8 Top 100.  We had legit 22+ win potential with a depth chart/lineup of:

Carlino/Derrick
Todd/Duane
JJJ/Cohen
Juan/Burton
Luke/Steve

So, I might be wrong, but didn't you use the preseason expectations/rankings all throughout last season and this off-season as comparable proof of how bad Buzz did last season? And now you're saying those same expectations/rankings can be wrong? And because of your sudden 180, you're attacking Wojo for this season? Weird.

[NersEllenson]

So, I might be wrong, but didn't you use the preseason expectations/rankings all throughout last season and this off-season as comparable proof of how bad Buzz did last season? And now you're saying those same expectations/rankings can be wrong? And because of your sudden 180, you're attacking Wojo for this season? Weird.

I know you want to immediately jump on anything I post Jesu - look at the context of the post.  Sultan used this season's preseason expectations to justify our performance thus far.  Yet, many, Sultan included, did NOT want to use last season's pre-season predictions as evidence or proof that the team greatly underachieved.  So, if you follow, there was incongruence in the initial point made, to which I responded.

If you follow, we essentially are performing to preseason expectations this season, yet drastically underachieved and missed on last year's preseason expectations.  So which way is it if we are going to use preseason expectations as a benchmark for assessing a coach:  Did Buzz blow it last year, or is Wojo underachieving this year?

Additionally, please look at the depth chart and lineup composition of what could have been, and help me understand how Wojo was dealt such a tough hand upon taking the MU job?

Lastly, Top 100 recruits have a MUCH better chance of having success at the college level than those not Top 100 - yet it guarantees nothing.  However, it is beyond reasonable to think that if you have 7 on a team, all 7 are going to be "misses."  Is our coaching staff then not to share some of the blame for not developing the skills many talent evaluators assessed as putting these kids in the Top 100 High School players for their class?

[GGGG]

Yes, preseason expectations weren't high for this MU team.  However, the year before, expectations were incredibly high - Win the Big East - with Buzz's most veteran team - yet we missed the NIT...proof of course the pre-season expectations and projections aren't frequently accurate.

This year we return a highly experienced senior PG, the only guy who isn't a Top 100 player on the roster, yet the 7 other guys all at least 2+ years into their college careers other than Cohen - and we are supposed to be awful?  Now, if Wojo were able to work it out with Todd, retain Burton - add those two guys to this team??  I just disagree with those who want to say Wojo was dealt a tough hand - he came into a program with 6 Top 100 players, (Mayo not in that mix) retained Buzz's recruit Cohen and added Carlino to make the Number 8 Top 100.  We had legit 22+ win potential with a depth chart/lineup of:

Carlino/Derrick
Todd/Duane
JJJ/Cohen
Juan/Burton
Luke/Steve

All last year you went on and on about how Buzz was a failure due to not meeting pre-season expectations because pre-season expectations matter.

This year you are going on and one about how Wojo should be exceeding pre-season expectations because pre-season expectations don't matter.

Got it.

[GGGG]

I know you want to immediately jump on anything I post Jesu - look at the context of the post.  Sultan used this season's preseason expectations to justify our performance thus far.  Yet, many, Sultan included, did NOT want to use last season's pre-season predictions as evidence or proof that the team greatly underachieved. 

I never said last year's team didn't underachieve.

[jesmu84]

I know you want to immediately jump on anything I post Jesu - look at the context of the post.  Sultan used this season's preseason expectations to justify our performance thus far.  Yet, many, Sultan included, did NOT want to use last season's pre-season predictions as evidence or proof that the team greatly underachieved.  So, if you follow, there was incongruence in the initial point made, to which I responded.

If you follow, we essentially are performing to preseason expectations this season, yet drastically underachieved and missed on last year's preseason expectations.  So which way is it if we are going to use preseason expectations as a benchmark for assessing a coach:  Did Buzz blow it last year, or is Wojo underachieving this year?

Additionally, please look at the depth chart and lineup composition of what could have been, and help me understand how Wojo was dealt such a tough hand upon taking the MU job?

Lastly, Top 100 recruits have a MUCH better chance of having success at the college level than those not Top 100 - yet it guarantees nothing.  However, it is beyond reasonable to think that if you have 7 on a team, all 7 are going to be "misses."  Is our coaching staff then not to share some of the blame for not developing the skills many talent evaluators assessed as putting these kids in the Top 100 High School players for their class?

IMO, last season's pre-season predictions were wildly off. But that's just me. I do think Buzz underachieved last season, to a point. I do believe Wojo is doing about what I expected him to achieve this season.

IMO, any first year coach, in a rough transition, is going to have at least a little bit of a "tough hand."

IMO, not all players are created equal, regardless of their ranking. I think there were some definite "misses" by our prior coaching staff (as well as recruiting services). As well, I think it's gotta be tough to try and instill a new culture in players who weren't brought in under the current regime - and, by no fault of their own, some of those players will have a more difficult time adjusting than others.