Dwyane Wade's outdoor basketball court

[wadesworld]

You sure about that?

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/10/19/up_and_coming_method/?page=full

Sure looks to me like MU bought a Hypoxic chamber, not a hyperbaric chamber as erroneous reported here over the years. 

I'd hate to think Scoop put out some wrong information...or else the Suns, Packers, Pistons, Miami Heat, etc were also wrong at the time.   

Regardless, if you look at the number of NBA and NFL teams using either Hypoxic or Hyperbaric chambers at the team level or by individuals, the list is a who's who.  Maybe they're all buying it just because, maybe it's a placebo. 

Did you even bother reading the article that you just posted?  It might help to do that.  Tom used them exactly as Heisenberg posted.  And that is exactly how they shouldn't be used.  They are used for recovery, not to work out in.  There is a reason as soon as Tommy left Marquette got rid of the chambers...

Thanks for proving our point, though.  Do they have a use for athletes?  Yes.  Did Tommy use them the exact opposite way they are meant for?  Yes.  Not very smart.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did you even bother reading the article that you just posted?  It might help to do that.  Tom used them exactly as Heisenberg posted.  And that is exactly how they shouldn't be used.  They are used for recovery, not to work out in.  There is a reason as soon as Tommy left Marquette got rid of the chambers...

Thanks for proving our point, though.  Do they have a use for athletes?  Yes.  Did Tommy use them the exact opposite way they are meant for?  Yes.  Not very smart.

Several things....the wrong type of chamber seemed to be stated in the post.  I pointed to the article that says it wasn't hyperbaric or hypobaric (those are two distinctly different items), but rather a Hypoxic chamber.  Now, is a Hypoxic chamber the same as a hypobaric chamber? Or a hyperbaric chamber? I ask, I don't know, but clearly there is a difference between a hyperbaric and hypobaric chamber from what I'm reading, and the article talks of a hypoxic chamber.  Sounds confusing, but it seems Heisenberg corrected that part.


If I read the article correctly......"After purchasing a customized altitude unit this summer for $41,700, Marquette became the first college basketball team in the country to integrate the hypoxic chamber into its training regimen, following the lead of professional sports franchises such as the Green Bay Packers, Detroit Pistons, Miami Heat, and Phoenix Suns"

Seems like a good thing, but if MU was using it wrong, then obviously that is a problem.



If I read the article correctly, it also said....."Pistons strength and conditioning coach Arnie Kander predicts more franchises will invest in the technology and "it will be in most [NBA] facilities in give or take 10 years." Marquette head athletic trainer Jayd Grossman foresees the exercise chambers "becoming less a luxury and more the standard," believing it's only a matter of time until a well-funded high school purchases a unit."



So if I understand it correctly, we were using it wrong....despite following in the footsteps of other sports teams, players, etc, but yes we could still be using it wrong.  However, if the head athletic trainer is saying how great it is and he is the person that would be certified to use such equipment, are you saying he was wrong as he is the one putting the athletes through the process and presumably the benefits of that process?

Is that what I am to understand, that the certified professional trainer for Marquette athletics was wrong in its application?  That seems to be what you and Another84 is saying, but please clarify if I am incorrect.  And was the certified professional trainer some guy named Tanned Tommy?

[patso]

I still think Wade would eat Jimmy butler alive in a playoff series. No disrespect to Jimmy.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I still think Wade would eat Jimmy butler alive in a playoff series. No disrespect to Jimmy.

Not a chance with Wade at his age now. In his prime, yea, but he doesn't really live up to his "flash" nickname anymore.

[wadesworld]

Several things....the wrong type of chamber seemed to be stated in the post.  I pointed to the article that says it wasn't hyperbaric or hypobaric (those are two distinctly different items), but rather a Hypoxic chamber.  Now, is a Hypoxic chamber the same as a hypobaric chamber? Or a hyperbaric chamber? I ask, I don't know, but clearly there is a difference between a hyperbaric and hypobaric chamber from what I'm reading, and the article talks of a hypoxic chamber.  Sounds confusing, but it seems Heisenberg corrected that part.


If I read the article correctly......"After purchasing a customized altitude unit this summer for $41,700, Marquette became the first college basketball team in the country to integrate the hypoxic chamber into its training regimen, following the lead of professional sports franchises such as the Green Bay Packers, Detroit Pistons, Miami Heat, and Phoenix Suns"

Seems like a good thing, but if MU was using it wrong, then obviously that is a problem.



If I read the article correctly, it also said....."Pistons strength and conditioning coach Arnie Kander predicts more franchises will invest in the technology and "it will be in most [NBA] facilities in give or take 10 years." Marquette head athletic trainer Jayd Grossman foresees the exercise chambers "becoming less a luxury and more the standard," believing it's only a matter of time until a well-funded high school purchases a unit."



So if I understand it correctly, we were using it wrong....despite following in the footsteps of other sports teams, players, etc, but yes we could still be using it wrong.  However, if the head athletic trainer is saying how great it is and he is the person that would be certified to use such equipment, are you saying he was wrong as he is the one putting the athletes through the process and presumably the benefits of that process?

Is that what I am to understand, that the certified professional trainer for Marquette athletics was wrong in its application?  That seems to be what you and Another84 is saying, but please clarify if I am incorrect.  And was the certified professional trainer some guy named Tanned Tommy?

Whatever kind of chamber it was, it was supposed to be used for recovery.  Which is why the article references players sleeping in these chambers, to recover.  When you use it to work out in, you are just wearing yourself out and wearing your body down.  Tommy was the one who decided it was a good investment, an investment that Marquette University since got rid of.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Whatever kind of chamber it was, it was supposed to be used for recovery.  Which is why the article references players sleeping in these chambers, to recover.  When you use it to work out in, you are just wearing yourself out and wearing your body down.  Tommy was the one who decided it was a good investment, an investment that Marquette University since got rid of.

I don't recall you answering the question.  I can try again.

My assumption would be that if a piece of equipment like this is purchased it is because it is getting good results for other clients, in this case other professional sports teams and individual athletes.  It seems, according to the article, that we were following in their lead to get those kinds of results.

Those teams have trainers and other professionals that know how to use these chambers and other equipment to better the bodies of their athletes.  In fact, the Detroit Pistons trainer was quoted in the article.  As was the Marquette trainer.

So back to the question, we bought this piece of equipment likely because other sports organizations were using it with success and under supervision of training staff.  MU has training staff.  One would think MU bought this based on a lot of information on the benefits of the device, but I think what you are still saying (well you haven't yet) is that MU's training staff was using the machine incorrectly?  Is that correct?  That MU bought this machine with good intentions and despite these other organizations using the chambers seemingly in a proper capacity, our training staff was not?

Is that correct?

The purchase of the chamber, seems to be one of trying to be better and pay similar benefits it had for a number of other teams. Remember, it was going to become the "standard". That's a business \ coaching decision to better a program....get ahead of the curve. Yes?   The use of the chamber is up to those that are trained to put the athletes through the implementation, the training staff...but it seems to me that you are assigning that blame elsewhere.  Is that correct?

[wadesworld]

I don't recall you answering the question.  I can try again.

My assumption would be that if a piece of equipment like this is purchased it is because it is getting good results for other clients, in this case other professional sports teams and individual athletes.  It seems, according to the article, that we were following in their lead to get those kinds of results.

Those teams have trainers and other professionals that know how to use these chambers and other equipment to better the bodies of their athletes.  In fact, the Detroit Pistons trainer was quoted in the article.  As was the Marquette trainer.

So back to the question, we bought this piece of equipment likely because other sports organizations were using it with success and under supervision of training staff.  MU has training staff.  One would think MU bought this based on a lot of information on the benefits of the device, but I think what you are still saying (well you haven't yet) is that MU's training staff was using the machine incorrectly?  Is that correct?  That MU bought this machine with good intentions and despite these other organizations using the chambers seemingly in a proper capacity, our training staff was not?

Is that correct?

The purchase of the chamber, seems to be one of trying to be better and pay similar benefits it had for a number of other teams. Remember, it was going to become the "standard". That's a business \ coaching decision to better a program....get ahead of the curve. Yes?   The use of the chamber is up to those that are trained to put the athletes through the implementation, the training staff...but it seems to me that you are assigning that blame elsewhere.  Is that correct?

It was used incorrectly by Marquette, yes.  Like I said, the professionals use it for recovery, hence the sleeping in these chambers.  You will not see stationary bikes sitting in the Detroit Pistons chamber.

It's funny, because when Bert's assistant coach violated NCAA rules and then lied about them you were all up in arms about how Bert is in charge of the program and needs to be held accountable for the faults of his employees.  Now that the use of whatever kind of chamber has been proven to have been incorrect by Marquette basketball, it's not the coach's fault and it's all on the trainer.

Never the Tan Man's fault.

[The Lens]

I still think Wade would eat Jimmy butler alive in a playoff series. No disrespect to Jimmy.

What I wrote was in great part done in jest.  2006 Wade was a performance for the ages.  Just unreal. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did you even bother reading the article that you just posted?  It might help to do that.  Tom used them exactly as Heisenberg posted.  And that is exactly how they shouldn't be used.  They are used for recovery, not to work out in.  There is a reason as soon as Tommy left Marquette got rid of the chambers...

Thanks for proving our point, though.  Do they have a use for athletes?  Yes.  Did Tommy use them the exact opposite way they are meant for?  Yes.  Not very smart.

Meant to ask this question to you and Heisenberg as well, from the same article.  The one you asked if I read....so I read it again, for the fourth time.  Yes, there is a portion that talks about how some athletes use it to sleep and recover.

However, go to one of the last paragraphs and it talks about how programs are using it in conditioning as well.....interesting.  Sounds like maybe our trainer had it right and so did some of the other teams, though because it was cutting edge at the time (thus the title of the article), there were a great many unknowns, trial and error, etc.

At any rate, here is the paragraph I am referencing.

"Questions, however, remain about what translates to the field when athletes work out or sleepat altitude. While endurance athletes look to faster times for evidence that artificial altitude training works, coaches and trainers with Marquette, the Pistons, and Suns talk about a trial-and-error approach as they integrate sessions at altitude into their conditioning programs. They are continually adjusting altitude workout content, length, and intensity to determine what produces the best results."

Good to know we were doing what the Detroit Pistons, Phoenix Suns, etc, were also doing.....for a second there I got really nervous that our certified trainer was doing it all wrong because Scoop said so.   It may, in fact, have turned out it was wrong, as this was cutting edge stuff at the time, but good to see others in the field were doing the same thing.....oh, and continue to use them today.....for both training and recovery.  Go figure.

[Tugg Speedman]

It's funny, because when Bert's assistant coach violated NCAA rules and then lied about them you were all up in arms about how Bert is in charge of the program and needs to be held accountable for the faults of his employees.  Now that the use of whatever kind of chamber has been proven to have been incorrect by Marquette basketball, it's not the coach's fault and it's all on the trainer.

Never the Tan Man's fault.

+1!

What's so eye-opening about this is even a semi-incompetent trainer would tell the Tan one that this is not how you use them.  Further, even a mostly incompetent cross-country coach will tell the Tan one that is not how you use them.  Of course, both MU trainers and cross-country coaches are highly competent.

So I have to conclude that the Tan one pulled this use out of his Arse and either he would not listen to those more expert in hypobaric chamber use or they were afraid to tell him.  

Either way it reflects poorly on his management skills.

I don't recall you answering the question.  I can try again.

My assumption would be that if a piece of equipment like this is purchased it is because it is getting good results for other clients, in this case other professional sports teams and individual athletes.  It seems, according to the article, that we were following in their lead to get those kinds of results.

Those teams have trainers and other professionals that know how to use these chambers and other equipment to better the bodies of their athletes.  In fact, the Detroit Pistons trainer was quoted in the article.  As was the Marquette trainer.

Look at the history of training athletes.  It's full of bad ideas.

From 1900 to 1920 the drug of choice was Strychnine (aka rat poison) a stimulant.

The First Chicago Marathon in 1905: The Epic Race
http://www.runtri.com/2009/09/chicago-marathon-1905.html
Albert Corey ran representing the Chicago Athletic Club and had won the marathon silver medal at the 1904 Games, Corey. Many were convinced that Corey should have been awarded the Gold medal because the winner used performance enhancing strychnine and alcohol concoctions during the race.

From the 1920s to the 1950s most thought that medicine balls were good ideas.  Pounding a 12 pound ball against your chest does not toughen you up, it just bruises your ribs.

Are hyperbaric chambers being misused by professional organizations like strychnine and medicine balls in the past?  From the article:

Growing up in Colorado Springs, Riley, a defender for the New England Revolution, experienced the conditioning advantages altitude provides. Throughout most of his career, he excelled at team fitness tests, outlasting teammates raised at lower elevations.

All a hyperbaric chamber does is bring altitude living to those at sea-level.  That's why endurance athletes cluster around mountain regions (Monmouth Lakes CA, Boulder CO, Colorado Springs, Eugene OR), they live in a natural hyperbaric chamber.  IF you think it is more than that, like the Tan one, you're probably misusing it.

[Dawson Rental]

Question should be, does Jimmy B. have a court like that?

It'll be of the new contract when that gets worked out.

[wadesworld]

Meant to ask this question to you and Heisenberg as well, from the same article.  The one you asked if I read....so I read it again, for the fourth time.  Yes, there is a portion that talks about how some athletes use it to sleep and recover.

However, go to one of the last paragraphs and it talks about how programs are using it in conditioning as well.....interesting.  Sounds like maybe our trainer had it right and so did some of the other teams, though because it was cutting edge at the time (thus the title of the article), there were a great many unknowns, trial and error, etc.

At any rate, here is the paragraph I am referencing.

"Questions, however, remain about what translates to the field when athletes work out or sleepat altitude. While endurance athletes look to faster times for evidence that artificial altitude training works, coaches and trainers with Marquette, the Pistons, and Suns talk about a trial-and-error approach as they integrate sessions at altitude into their conditioning programs. They are continually adjusting altitude workout content, length, and intensity to determine what produces the best results."

Good to know we were doing what the Detroit Pistons, Phoenix Suns, etc, were also doing.....for a second there I got really nervous that our certified trainer was doing it all wrong because Scoop said so.   It may, in fact, have turned out it was wrong, as this was cutting edge stuff at the time, but good to see others in the field were doing the same thing.....oh, and continue to use them today.....for both training and recovery.  Go figure.

Yeah, that's why we got rid of it promptly when Tanned Tommy left. Because we put $50K into it for its cutting edge success. We don't want that kind of advantage.

Oh wait, it's because the purpose of it is for recovery, and we aren't going to have our student athletes spending hours remaining in a chamber when they have to be in the classroom and gym.

Cutting edge.

[Dawson Rental]

No, but they're IU socks! ;p

You know that it's Dwyane's kid in the picture right?

How is nobody picking up on Wade's comment?

"I don't know if he will ever go to Marquette....but a father can dream..#homecourt #hegotnext"

Edit: My apologies, martyconlonontherun was on it.

Back to the point, Wade's son is good, right?  Isn't this the first we've seen that Dwyane wants to see his son (I'm guessing Zaire) play at Marquette?  Zaire has been identified as (at this point in time) one of the best prospects for the class of 2020.  Hey, if Crean could offer an eighth grader, maybe Wojo is just a couple of years away from an offer.

[wadesworld]

You know that it's Dwyane's kid in the picture right?

How is nobody picking up on Wade's comment?

"I don't know if he will ever go to Marquette....but a father can dream..#homecourt #hegotnext"

That's what my original comment in the thread was about...

[Dawson Rental]

Ahhhh.  Thanks for clarifying.  

I have to admit that when I first saw the picture, I got a little verklempt.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, that's why we got rid of it promptly when Tanned Tommy left. Because we put $50K into it for its cutting edge success. We don't want that kind of advantage.

Oh wait, it's because the purpose of it is for recovery, and we aren't going to have our student athletes spending hours remaining in a chamber when they have to be in the classroom and gym.

Cutting edge.

You didn't answer the questions again.  So that I understand, the Pistons, Suns, et al....all of their trainers were also improperly using the chamber....as it clearly states conditioning was used with these chambers....INTENSE conditioning. I wonder if that tanned guy worked as a trainer not only at MU, but also at the Pistons, Suns, etc....nevermind, back to the topic.

All these professionals had it wrong?   And the ones that still use it today in the same fashion (not just recovery, but also conditioning), are using it wrong...still?

We should probably be nice and send them a link to scoop or something...I would think....just to let them know they aren't using their equipment properly.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Dear God, you are all pretty.

It sounds like Tom bought sine kind of chamber and had his athletes train in it. He did this because several professional teams, experts in the field, we're doing the same thing. A reasonable course of action. More research was done and it was revealed that the experts were not as correct as originally thought so the practice fell out of popularity and the inventory got rid of the machine. As hberg pointed out, this has happened throughout the history of fitness.

So yes, the chamber didn't work as well as Tom hoped it would. But I would hardly call it a bad decision by Tom because following the lead of experts in the field is usually a sound decision.

You are both right, give it a rest

[keefe]

Dear God, you are all pretty.

It sounds like Tom bought sine kind of chamber and had his athletes train in it. He did this because several professional teams, experts in the field, we're doing the same thing. A reasonable course of action. More research was done and it was revealed that the experts were not as correct as originally thought so the practice fell out of popularity and the inventory got rid of the machine. As hberg pointed out, this has happened throughout the history of fitness.

So yes, the chamber didn't work as well as Tom hoped it would. But I would hardly call it a bad decision by Tom because following the lead of experts in the field is usually a sound decision.

You are both right, give it a rest

Who the hell is "Tom?"

[4everwarriors]

Wade needs to buy a T-Cubed blow -up doll that claps endlessly on the sidelines just to authenticate this chit, hey?

[wadesworld]

Wade needs to buy a T-Cubed blow -up doll that claps endlessly on the sidelines just to authenticate this chit, hey?

Any tackling dummies spotted on the court?

[mu_hilltopper]

It also should be pounded in to some brains that .. While it *might* have been Crean who read about some altitude chamber, it was far more likely that his strength trainer / medical staff came up with the idea.  Regardless, he would have given it to them as food for thought and they pursued the idea, with plenty of "experts" advising on its use.  

If they got it wrong, it's not on Crean, besides him trusting training experts who advised MU to use it incorrectly.

[willie warrior]

You know that it's Dwyane's kid in the picture right?

How is nobody picking up on Wade's comment?

"I don't know if he will ever go to Marquette....but a father can dream..#homecourt #hegotnext"

Edit: My apologies, martyconlonontherun was on it.

Back to the point, Wade's son is good, right?  Isn't this the first we've seen that Dwyane wants to see his son (I'm guessing Zaire) play at Marquette?  Zaire has been identified as (at this point in time) one of the best prospects for the class of 2020.  Hey, if Crean could offer an eighth grader, maybe Wojo is just a couple of years away from an offer.

What is the kid, 12-13 years old? Way too early to start projections--unless a kid is athletic and 6'9" at 13. Then maybe. But wait until he is 16-17 before starting the raves and hopes. It is OK for Wade to hope--he is the Dad.

[wadesworld]

It also should be pounded in to some brains that .. While it *might* have been Crean who read about some altitude chamber, it was far more likely that his strength trainer / medical staff came up with the idea.  Regardless, he would have given it to them as food for thought and they pursued the idea, with plenty of "experts" advising on its use.  

If they got it wrong, it's not on Crean, besides him trusting training experts who advised MU to use it incorrectly.

Just like it's not Bert's fault Monarch gave a tshirt to Steve and then lied about it, but according to chicos that falls on Bert because he's the boss. But the lack of control over his players at IU is not Crean's, either, so...

[keefe]

That's why endurance athletes cluster around mountain regions (Monmouth Lakes CA, Boulder CO, Colorado Springs, Eugene OR),

Actually, Eugene isn't all that high. As for its residents, that is an altogether different matter...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Just like it's not Bert's fault Monarch gave a tshirt to Steve and then lied about it, but according to chicos that falls on Bert because he's the boss. But the lack of control over his players at IU is not Crean's, either, so...

There is a difference. Monarch violating NCAA rules is always a bad idea. Following the lead of professional basketball teams? Almost always a good idea.