How do we close out a game?

[mattyv1908]

I know that Luke Fischer is all the rage (and rightfully so) following last night's game.  The big negative obviously is we let a 20 point lead end up a 7 point game.  The game was never in question but what if that 20 point lead was a 12 point lead?  I think our personnel is a nightmare of trade offs in late game situations when we have a lead and I think that will be the undermining of a lot of solid efforts this year.  Let's look at what we have.

Carlino - He's a very good FT shooter, BUT he's not a true PG and his ball handling is mediocre and his decision making against pressure has been very bad.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will have the opportunity to trap and force an errant pass.

Derrick - He's a sub 50% FT shooter, BUT he's our best ball handler.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will jump at the chance to put him at the line.

Duane -  He had an off night at the FT line, but he's a good FT shooter.  His ball skills are much better than Carlino's.  He is young and probably hasn't seen D1 full court pressure in crunch time so trusting him (Wojo) can be hard.

Steve and Juan are not great FT shooters either.


Here's my suggestion:  I think Anderson should inbound the ball.  We should look to get Duane the ball off the inbounds with Derrick cross court and Anderson as a safety behind him.  I would put Carlino across half court as the man who fields the pass into the front court minimizing his ball handling.  If Duane can break the pressure himself that's great, but if the trap comes a pass to Derrick hopefully to either get the ball immediately to Carlino across the half court or with a dribble breaking the pressure than getting the ball out of his hands.

In this situation it would ensure that either Duane or Carlino are the guys getting fouled 80% of the time.

It's tough because there's a compromise with both Carlino and Derrick in these situations because of their limitations.

Hopefully this doesn't cost us games but IMO it's the area that is going to hurt this team more than anything.

[MerrittsMustache]

MU closed out just fine against NJIT, Ga Tech and Tennessee. Carlino and Duane will be the guys with the ball in their hands.

[StillWarriors]

Legitimate concerns, but I really think a lot of it had to with exhaustion and some inexperience affecting decision making and the ability to execute some long passes. Hopefully we utilize Taylor and Cohen a little more so everyone's a bit fresher down the stretch.

[Dawson Rental]

From 12 point win to a 7 point win in less than 30 seconds.  It's probably been difficult to practice against pressure with Dawson and Burton leaving.  Wojo will find a way to shore this up.

[mattyv1908]

Legitimate concerns, but I really think a lot of it had to with exhaustion and some inexperience affecting decision making and the ability to execute some long passes. Hopefully we utilize Taylor and Cohen a little more so everyone's a bit fresher down the stretch.

If exhaustion was a concern after 10 days off then imagine what it'll be like during the conference season.

Carlino is a graduate transfer, the most experienced guy on our team and he made most of the poor decision making.

MU closed out just fine against NJIT, Ga Tech and Tennessee. Carlino and Duane will be the guys with the ball in their hands.

NJIT, Tech and Tennessee are not the caliber of teams that 4-5 of our Big East competitors are.

[MerrittsMustache]

NJIT, Tech and Tennessee are not the caliber of teams that 4-5 of our Big East competitors are.

So what? Make your FTs late and it doesn't matter who you're playing.

[forgetful]

From 12 point win to a 7 point win in less than 30 seconds.  It's probably been difficult to practice against pressure with Dawson and Burton leaving.  Wojo will find a way to shore this up.

I'm not concerned at all about the last 5 points, MU was trying to politely dribble out the last 30 seconds.  At first it seemed like ASU was content with it and many of the MU players relaxed.  ASU attacked the ball handler (really fouled him, but the refs figured the game was over anyway) and got 2 more buckets. 

Never stop playing.  In the future they won't make that mistake.

[brandx]

I know that Luke Fischer is all the rage (and rightfully so) following last night's game.  The big negative obviously is we let a 20 point lead end up a 7 point game.  The game was never in question but what if that 20 point lead was a 12 point lead?  I think our personnel is a nightmare of trade offs in late game situations when we have a lead and I think that will be the undermining of a lot of solid efforts this year.  Let's look at what we have.

Carlino - He's a very good FT shooter, BUT he's not a true PG and his ball handling is mediocre and his decision making against pressure has been very bad.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will have the opportunity to trap and force an errant pass.

Derrick - He's a sub 50% FT shooter, BUT he's our best ball handler.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will jump at the chance to put him at the line.

Duane -  He had an off night at the FT line, but he's a good FT shooter.  His ball skills are much better than Carlino's.  He is young and probably hasn't seen D1 full court pressure in crunch time so trusting him (Wojo) can be hard.

Steve and Juan are not great FT shooters either.


Here's my suggestion:  I think Anderson should inbound the ball.  We should look to get Duane the ball off the inbounds with Derrick cross court and Anderson as a safety behind him.  I would put Carlino across half court as the man who fields the pass into the front court minimizing his ball handling.  If Duane can break the pressure himself that's great, but if the trap comes a pass to Derrick hopefully to either get the ball immediately to Carlino across the half court or with a dribble breaking the pressure than getting the ball out of his hands.

In this situation it would ensure that either Duane or Carlino are the guys getting fouled 80% of the time.

It's tough because there's a compromise with both Carlino and Derrick in these situations because of their limitations.

Hopefully this doesn't cost us games but IMO it's the area that is going to hurt this team more than anything.

I agree with what you say - and my guess is that eventually it will end up costing us a game. And if we are to end up as a bubble team, it could really be costly.

[mattyv1908]

So what? Make your FTs late and it doesn't matter who you're playing.

But missed free throws didn't account for why the lead went from 15 to 7 in the final 2:27.

4 turnovers, 3 fouls (why?) and 2 missed FTs during that stretch in what should have been a route is a problem moving forward.

If I recall correctly, the year that the Big East got 11 teams to the dance Marquette couldn't manage to close out tight games until Butler hit that shot @ UConn and then they won just about every one since.  That was when every game was a quality win and allowed MU to sneak into the dance.

This year we have no margin for error.

[Ari Gold]

MU closed out just fine against NJIT, Ga Tech and Tennessee. Carlino and Duane will be the guys with the ball in their hands.

Marquette lead by 11 with 3 mins to go against GA tech. I wouldn't call that "closing out just fine"

[WarriorInNYC]

I know that Luke Fischer is all the rage (and rightfully so) following last night's game.  The big negative obviously is we let a 20 point lead end up a 7 point game.  The game was never in question but what if that 20 point lead was a 12 point lead?  I think our personnel is a nightmare of trade offs in late game situations when we have a lead and I think that will be the undermining of a lot of solid efforts this year.  Let's look at what we have.

Carlino - He's a very good FT shooter, BUT he's not a true PG and his ball handling is mediocre and his decision making against pressure has been very bad.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will have the opportunity to trap and force an errant pass.

Derrick - He's a sub 50% FT shooter, BUT he's our best ball handler.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will jump at the chance to put him at the line.

Duane -  He had an off night at the FT line, but he's a good FT shooter.  His ball skills are much better than Carlino's.  He is young and probably hasn't seen D1 full court pressure in crunch time so trusting him (Wojo) can be hard.

Steve and Juan are not great FT shooters either.


Here's my suggestion:  I think Anderson should inbound the ball.  We should look to get Duane the ball off the inbounds with Derrick cross court and Anderson as a safety behind him.  I would put Carlino across half court as the man who fields the pass into the front court minimizing his ball handling.  If Duane can break the pressure himself that's great, but if the trap comes a pass to Derrick hopefully to either get the ball immediately to Carlino across the half court or with a dribble breaking the pressure than getting the ball out of his hands.

In this situation it would ensure that either Duane or Carlino are the guys getting fouled 80% of the time.

It's tough because there's a compromise with both Carlino and Derrick in these situations because of their limitations.

Hopefully this doesn't cost us games but IMO it's the area that is going to hurt this team more than anything.

I think this is pretty good, but the one thing that worries me is teams fouling Derrick away from the ball prior to the inbound pass.  We have seen it a couple times earlier this year and I know it can sometimes end up with the opposing team getting an intentional foul, but that will not get called most of the time.

As I have seen in another thread from another poster, I think Derrick can only be in the game in these situations if we are in the double bonus and the lead is >3.

[axaguy]

We need to learn how to break a full court press. Where's Bob Knight when you need him???? You don't throw the ball to a guy in the corner......and allow him to get trapped only to heave a cross court Hail-Mary. You don't try to dribble out of one either and risk the turn over by an over jealous ball handler.      

Passing is the way to do it with guys moving and cutting and getting the ball to the middle of the court to the big. Luke's a better ball handler than ST for sure but the middle guy then can see/pass to a cutter/breaker rather than corner the ball and get our guy trapped................ Move it down the court...not side to side...

[mattyv1908]

I think this is pretty good, but the one thing that worries me is teams fouling Derrick away from the ball prior to the inbound pass.  We have seen it a couple times earlier this year and I know it can sometimes end up with the opposing team getting an intentional foul, but that will not get called most of the time.

As I have seen in another thread from another poster, I think Derrick can only be in the game in these situations if we are in the double bonus and the lead is >3.

I agree, but that means Wojo has to trust Duane in these situations as Carlino is not a good ball handler at all.

I think this team will go as far as Duane Wilson grows throughout the season.

[bilsu]

I feel Carlino is a big risk. He is a good free throw shooter, but he does not want to bring the ball up against even an easy press. Once the ball is cross court he is more likely to take an ill-advised shot. Play the two Wilson's. Derrick hit 3 out of 4 last night and he needs to step up and make them at the end of games. Even if Derrick misses both free throws, we still have a chance to have our defense set. We do not have that advantage when Carlino throws the ball away.

[Sharpie]

They seemed to do just fine earlier in the game and then puckered up a little towards the end. They'll learn and get better at closing out.

They almost blew the cover making it a little more nerve wracking at the end moreso than it needed to be.

[mattyv1908]

I feel Carlino is a big risk. He is a good free throw shooter, but he does not want to bring the ball up against even an easy press. Once the ball is cross court he is more likely to take an ill-advised shot. Play the two Wilson's. Derrick hit 3 out of 4 last night and he needs to step up and make them at the end of games. Even if Derrick misses both free throws, we still have a chance to have our defense set. We do not have that advantage when Carlino throws the ball away.

I think Carlino knows in a tight game while chewing up clock that putting up a quick shot isn't beneficial.  If he doesn't than that's on the coaching staff.

Carlino is the guy you want to get the ball to once the ball crosses half court.  He went 4 for 4 from the line in the final two minutes when the team successfully beat the pressure.  He was terrible as the guy trying to beat the pressure.

[mattyv1908]

They seemed to do just fine earlier in the game and then puckered up a little towards the end. They'll learn and get better at closing out.

They almost blew the cover making it a little more nerve wracking at the end moreso than it needed to be.

I addressed this in another post.  Last night reminded me of our epic collapse against Louisville.  In both games there was a conscious decision to stop being so aggressive offensively.  Often times this takes a team out of what they have been doing so well to mount such a big lead in the first place.

IMO Wojo should have called off the dogs at the two minute mark instead of the 4-5 minute mark and we win this going away.

This is the reason I made this topic in the first place.  We had a huge lead to play with tonight and the game was never in jeopardy.  There will be lots of games moving forward where I'm sure we have a 5-8 point lead with under three to play.  That's when it becomes paramount to this team.

[Coleman]

I'm not concerned at all about the last 5 points, MU was trying to politely dribble out the last 30 seconds.  At first it seemed like ASU was content with it and many of the MU players relaxed.  ASU attacked the ball handler (really fouled him, but the refs figured the game was over anyway) and got 2 more buckets. 

Never stop playing.  In the future they won't make that mistake.

That is how I interpreted it too.

ASU seemed to concede the game, the players relaxed, stood up, walked around, and then an ASU player stole the ball.

[PGsHeroes32]

This was a sloppy lead but it was more so due to having a HUGE lead, getting complacent and playing stallball.

They also drained some 3s. And don't forget we were up 12 with a chance to basically run out clock but Duane and JJJ had to TO's(JJJ just literally lost his dribble). Those are not good things to happen but they happened when we had a game completely locked up.

Free throws we have 8 guys.

3 of them Carlino, JJJ, Duane you will trust to ice a game and they will do it vast majority of time. Derrick you want nowhere near the ball. Juan you would strongly prefer to be nowhere near the ball. Luke and Steve are more of unknown's but like Juan, much preferred not to have it. Cohen would probably be fine, but he won't be in at the end unless a bunch of guys are fouled out.

Having 3 very reliable options is probably better than a lot of teams actually. The only bad thing is our worst FT shooter Derrick...is considerably better handling the ball than Carlino our top option right now.

The key should be to find Duane off the inbounds, let him handle the ball until they foul or he gives it up to JJJ/Matt.

[willie warrior]

I know that Luke Fischer is all the rage (and rightfully so) following last night's game.  The big negative obviously is we let a 20 point lead end up a 7 point game.  The game was never in question but what if that 20 point lead was a 12 point lead?  I think our personnel is a nightmare of trade offs in late game situations when we have a lead and I think that will be the undermining of a lot of solid efforts this year.  Let's look at what we have.

Carlino - He's a very good FT shooter, BUT he's not a true PG and his ball handling is mediocre and his decision making against pressure has been very bad.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will have the opportunity to trap and force an errant pass.

Derrick - He's a sub 50% FT shooter, BUT he's our best ball handler.  If he gets the inbounds pass teams will jump at the chance to put him at the line.

Duane -  He had an off night at the FT line, but he's a good FT shooter.  His ball skills are much better than Carlino's.  He is young and probably hasn't seen D1 full court pressure in crunch time so trusting him (Wojo) can be hard.

Steve and Juan are not great FT shooters either.


Here's my suggestion:  I think Anderson should inbound the ball.  We should look to get Duane the ball off the inbounds with Derrick cross court and Anderson as a safety behind him.  I would put Carlino across half court as the man who fields the pass into the front court minimizing his ball handling.  If Duane can break the pressure himself that's great, but if the trap comes a pass to Derrick hopefully to either get the ball immediately to Carlino across the half court or with a dribble breaking the pressure than getting the ball out of his hands.

In this situation it would ensure that either Duane or Carlino are the guys getting fouled 80% of the time.

It's tough because there's a compromise with both Carlino and Derrick in these situations because of their limitations.

Hopefully this doesn't cost us games but IMO it's the area that is going to hurt this team more than anything.

Another solution would be to not have him on the court. Duane and a senior, Carlino with help from JJJ, Fischer and Juan/Taylor should be capable. And they are all better FT shooters with Juan being suspect, and don't know much about Fischer's FT ability. Chance are better with those guys.

[tower912]

Juan taking the ball out.   Lob to the foul line to Fischer.   Carlino, Duane, and JJJ running some sort of X cut behind the ball and Luke passing it to whoever has the most space.   

[Earl Tatum]

Just some thoughts-----------------
Tell Duane to smarten up. You don't dribble as much as he did, YOU PICK IT UP. Get fouled. Juan air-mailed
a pass in 30 sec. frame also. Get it to the big guy. Duane had a great game but spoiled it at the end.
Don't know what Wojo's strategy was. Carlino can't break a press. Don't know about Derrick. Could
use another point guard (JC) next year. like mentioned free up Duane to shoot more. Need Semi Ojeleye
also. Taylor does not look like a player that fits into Wojo's system. Thought he was better than that.
Maybe a power forward. But the team played hard and their defense was much better up front.

[mattyv1908]

Just some thoughts-----------------
Tell Duane to smarten up. You don't dribble as much as he did, YOU PICK IT UP. Get fouled. Juan air-mailed
a pass in 30 sec. frame also. Get it to the big guy. Duane had a great game but spoiled it at the end.
Don't know what Wojo's strategy was. Carlino can't break a press. Don't know about Derrick. Could
use another point guard (JC) next year. like mentioned free up Duane to shoot more. Need Semi Ojeleye
also. Taylor does not look like a player that fits into Wojo's system. Thought he was better than that.
Maybe a power forward. But the team played hard and their defense was much better up front.

It's when you pick up your dribble that you get into trouble against the press.

[willie warrior]

Just some thoughts-----------------
Tell Duane to smarten up. You don't dribble as much as he did, YOU PICK IT UP. Get fouled. Juan air-mailed
a pass in 30 sec. frame also. Get it to the big guy. Duane had a great game but spoiled it at the end.
Don't know what Wojo's strategy was. Carlino can't break a press. Don't know about Derrick. Could
use another point guard (JC) next year. like mentioned free up Duane to shoot more. Need Semi Ojeleye
also. Taylor does not look like a player that fits into Wojo's system. Thought he was better than that.
Maybe a power forward. But the team played hard and their defense was much better up front.

Duane didn't spoil it at the end. He was hacked twice but the refs failed to call it. It seems like refs do that frequently when a team is trying to catch up with about 45 seconds or so to go. They let the play go, probably hoping that the clock will run out so they can get out of Dodge with their paycheck.

[brandx]

It's when you pick up your dribble that you get into trouble against the press.

You're right, but it looks like our guards are just looking for a way to dribble past the press rather than having their heads up to see where the next pass should go. I know it is stating the obvious, but if you get double-teamed and the other 4 guys are spread out on the floor - someone is unguarded.