Have To Tell It Like It is

[Silkk the Shaka]

(A) KenPom has been saying 1-2 Big East wins all along.
(B)  Every outsider looking in picked MU for the bottom part of the Big East
(C)  This year isn't about the results.   They aren't going to be great.   It is about the process and building for the future, both the players and the coaching staff.

(A) Not true. The BEast was undervalued in his model to start the year, and we were projected 87th at the outset and have subsequently slid to 109. Additionally, game by game projections have us favored to win two games, but in aggregate go 6-12. I know you're not the one making the second error, but I've seen it out there many times. KenPom actually predicts us to win 6 conference games. Spliltting hairs though. Brutal either way.

(C) Correct. So quit riding a proven losing horse (Derrick) and go with the future. The constant message should be growth and the future. Live through in-game mistakes then critique them on film post mortem. This year could be an incredible teaching tool to prep the guys who will surround Henry next year. Major opportunity, I hope it gets used.

[tower912]

There are 8 scholarship players.   Everybody is going to get plenty of minutes.   Duane is averaging around 30.  He is the PG of the future.   It is up to JJJ to step up his game like Duane has and take Derrick's minutes.

[MU82]

(C) Correct. So quit riding a proven losing horse (Derrick) and go with the future. The constant message should be growth and the future. Live through in-game mistakes then critique them on film post mortem. This year could be an incredible teaching tool to prep the guys who will surround Henry next year. Major opportunity, I hope it gets used.

Coaches don't think like this, especially before the first conference game even has been played.

Believe me, Wojo thinks, "If we can gel as a team with Luke now available, mostly hold serve at home, steal a few on the road, who knows? Maybe we can even sneak into the tourney."

And while I agree this season is not going to result in an NCAA bid, I wouldn't discourage Wojo and the team from thinking it might.

Now, if our record is as bad as most of us think it will be by the time we get to February, then Wojo certainly should see the writing on the wall. But again, I don't blame him for not thinking that way yet.

[brandx]

(C) Correct. So quit riding a proven losing horse (Derrick) and go with the future. The constant message should be growth and the future. Live through in-game mistakes then critique them on film post mortem. This year could be an incredible teaching tool to prep the guys who will surround Henry next year. Major opportunity, I hope it gets used.

Just as Buzz wanted his teams to be the toughest on the floor, so does Wojo. And even the Derrick-haters need to be able to see that it starts with Derrick and Juan. They are building the legacy for Wojo. They are the leaders that are passing the attitude forward to the next guys.

Watching this team, it's easy to see that Steve doesn't have the same leadership as DW or JA. Not that he doesn't play hard all the time, but he is just a quiet guy. So I really see this being Duane's team for the next couple of years - and thankfully he has a great teacher in Derrick.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Remember that this guy's name was "Buzz Crush" or something similar last year.  He's pretty fickle. 

You know what my name was scoop stalker. I'm fine with being fickle in your opinion. I really don't care what a 50 year old guy who spends 18 hours a day on this message board thinks. I just checked the stats, you have spent over 8 1/2 months on this board since joining less than 6 years ago. You really need to find a hobby or something constructive to do. It's just not healthy.

[Silkk the Shaka]

You know what my name was scoop stalker. I'm fine with being fickle in your opinion. I really don't care what a 50 year old guy who spends 18 hours a day on this message board thinks. I just checked the stats, you have spent over 8 1/2 months on this board since joining less than 6 years ago. You really need to find a hobby or something constructive to do. It's just not healthy.

Yikes, I'm thinking I need to do the same.

[reinko]

You know what my name was scoop stalker. I'm fine with being fickle in your opinion. I really don't care what a 50 year old guy who spends 18 hours a day on this message board thinks. I just checked the stats, you have spent over 8 1/2 months on this board since joining less than 6 years ago. You really need to find a hobby or something constructive to do. It's just not healthy.

Rah!   Sultan has spent 8 months on this board,  while I have spwmt over a month here,   he so much worse than me. Rah!

At least the dude is rational and doesn't fly off the handle.  98% of people on this board love the team,  want them to do well,  represent the University well,  and if they win,  great,  coffee tastes a  bit better in the morning,  and we go on with our adult lives.

But y'all,  the spite,  hate,  and vitriol you carry around about certain coaches or players,  is just sad.  So yeah,  I am nerd and hang out here,  but at least I never assume I know more than a coach,  make judgements and put down players.

So go on with your awesome life,  judging by your post history,  I honestly think you will need the most luck you can get.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Rah!   Sultan has spent 8 months on this board,  while I have spwmt over a month here,   he so much worse than me. Rah!

At least the dude is rational and doesn't fly off the handle.  98% of people on this board love the team,  want them to do well,  represent the University well,  and if they win,  great,  coffee tastes a  bit better in the morning,  and we go on with our adult lives.

But y'all,  the spite,  hate,  and vitriol you carry around about certain coaches or players,  is just sad.  So yeah,  I am nerd and hang out here,  but at least I never assume I know more than a coach,  make judgements and put down players.

So go on with your awesome life,  judging by your post history,  I honestly think you will need the most luck you can get.

Lol, congrats

[Johnny B]

Relax folks

[Anti-Dentite]

Based on everything I've read on the board and in conversations I've had with people outside of the board I think Texas's last post is a pretty good summary of what went down.

Burton is in a negative space due to his circumstances and that carried over to his perception of the team, especially with what was going on with Dawson.  He also is self-aware enough to know his performance hasn't been great and struggles with that because he's a competitor.  He has his coach hammering away on him with what he's not doing right in an effort to improve him but it isn't always received well.  Lastly, he's got a lot of outside influences in his ear that only feed into the negative viewpoint.

Meanwhile Wojo is a competitor and is trying to fight with a roster not of his making and with some pretty obvious gaps.  He is trying to get the pieces to fit, some of which he needs to force in practice, etc.  He has to also try to manage teenagers especially through some very difficult challenges while himself trying to fly with out a net for the first time.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think both Wojo and Burton will recognize this as an opportunity missed.  Wojo and MU will be fine, and in some ways better for it as Wojo will have a lesson learned as will the rest of the team.  It is my sincere hope that Burton will be better for this as well and at a minimum lands on his feet and in a situation that meets his needs.

I truly think as fans, we chock this up to a missed opportunity with fault on all sides.  I also think it is ridiculous to assign the various playing minutes as anything other than a factor that clouded the issue, it's certainly not the root cause.

I think this is probably close to the truth and also believe it's what TW was trying to project in the OP which I agreed with. Hope the best for everyone, learn from it and let's move forward.

[MUHoopsFan2]

There are 8 scholarship players.   Everybody is going to get plenty of minutes.   Duane is averaging around 30.  He is the PG of the future.   It is up to JJJ to step up his game like Duane has and take Derrick's minutes.

Nobody is "taking Derrick's minutes." Stop it. If anything he will play more. And he should. He's a Senior and hard-working and does not turn the ball over.

If he hits some shots all the better and tougher it will be to get him off the floor. Stop crying about his limitations.

I have fight the same kind of Bucks fans who whine about PG Brandon Knight because of one or two things he does not do overly well.

Look at what he does do well! PG is a hard position to play. In college and in the NBA. Derrick can defend his position and outwork the guy he is going up against.

Can he hit a college 3 pt shot? Maybe not as consistently as he or any of like, but he is a solid player and a great young man.

I have seen him mature every year and a he is a solid leader. He is the team Captain with Juan Anderson and I salute them both and I am going to enjoy their last 21 games or so as collegiate players at MU.

I saw them both walk in the door 4 years ago as wide eye freshman and want to see them walk out on their terms as winners. They will.
 

[MUHoopsFan2]

Texas.....excellent post.


I said much of the same in my post earlier. I think Deonte and J.D were roomies and he did not like how that was going down with his buddy and him.

I think the upperclassmen need to go and talk to Deonte right now and tell him to get back here. When they separated the upperclassmen from the under that has really made a divide between them I think is taxing.

It used to be they all were together in everything they did when I first got here and in two years they went to the Final Four. Team Unity was tight.

I do not want to play the blame game but this is all on Wojo. Plain and simple. He has brought in an rock star coaching staff and has 20 years under Coach K and he can't deal with the situations like this?

I can see if we are talking about knuckleheads but from what I have seen I do not think either John Dawson or Deonte Burton are such. Deonte needs to cool down and come on back.

Fischer now being able to play would have helped both of these guys and he enables them all to fit into roles. I am very bummed how all this is gone down and am weary of talking about it.

But all parties dropped the ball.

[NavinRJohnson]

I am very bummed how all this is gone down and am weary of talking about it.

Yet, you continue to do so, in the form of theories and suppositions of which you have no knowledge. Deonte needs to cool down? Really? How do you know that he was hot? Should Luke Fischer have cooled down and returned to IU?

Separating the upper and underclassmen is an issue? You know that how? One of the stranger things I've read on this topic.

"This is all on Wojo," and yet, "both parties dropped the ball." Which is it?

Time for everyone to drop the drama and theatrics. Players transfer...all the time. Some good, some bad. It happens to every program, every year. Fact is, had he transferred before the season stated/with the coaching change, nobody would have really said a much about it. The fact that he chose to stay, and later changed his mind, should not turn this into some sort of nuclear event.

If recent history is any indication, there is a good chance Wojo/MU will upgrade both scholarships as a result of this. This year really doesn't matter anyway, they aren't any good, and burton and Dawson weren't going to change that. In the end this probably makes MU better down the road.

[Pakuni]

I do not want to play the blame game but this is all on Wojo.

My vote for most self-contradictory sentence of all time.

Anyhow, like everyone else here, you have no idea why Deonte is transferring.

[MUHoopsFan2]

This.

I think its kind of disturbing that he thinks that Wojo should have given him 5 or 6 extra minutes per game because his mother died.

No he should have been given what he deserved and earned and been coached to his talent which he has.

For Wojo to say that he had players in front of Deonte who were "playing better then him" was a joke. They are different players!

Learn to coach different players man! Talent is talent. You have it or you don't. And he is a local kid too. Just very tacky if you ask me.

Not after 8 games and knowing this young man's situation, come on now.

You can't tell me that 1 or 2 of his All Americans on that coaching staff could not have helped both John or Deonte? Get real....

Deonte allowed the situation with Dawson to influence his decision.

If I am to look on the outside looking in I think Deonte saw Dawson as another family member and roomie leaving, and he related it and then paired with his situation and his mother's passing and got so upset he took off too. . .

Wojo in stubborn coaches pride already with only 8 players and not sense enough to know that Luke Fischer would have solved much of the issues he had with Deonte [rebounding and defense] having a big man back there and allowed Deonte to play up to his ability in other areas.

But he was too impatient to wait. One players strengths can cover the others weaknesses. That is how you build a team, not make clones.

One thing about many college coaches is they are playing their players out of ego and out of their natural positions. 

And they are forcing them into their system which is probably their right. But not in this case here.

This is my last post on this here... I think Coach Wojo needs to humble himself and send a coach or go back and get Deonte and even John on this team. It won't happen but it should.

[reinko]

No he should have been given what he deserved and earned and been coached to his talent which he has.

For Wojo to say that he had players in front of Deonte who were "playing better then him" was a joke. They are different players!

Learn to coach different players man! Talent is talent. You have it or you don't. And he is a local kid too. Just very tacky if you ask me.

Not after 8 games and knowing this young man's situation, come on now.

You can't tell me that 1 or 2 of his All Americans on that coaching staff could not have helped both John or Deonte? Get real....

Deonte allowed the situation with Dawson to influence his decision.

If I am to look on the outside looking in I think Deonte saw Dawson as another family member and roomie leaving, and he related it and then paired with his situation and his mother's passing and got so upset he took off too. . .

Wojo in stubborn coaches pride already with only 8 players and not sense enough to know that Luke Fischer would have solved much of the issues he had with Deonte [rebounding and defense] having a big man back there and allowed Deonte to play up to his ability in other areas.

But he was too impatient to wait. One players strengths can cover the others weaknesses. That is how you build a team, not make clones.

One thing about many college coaches is they are playing their players out of ego and out of their natural positions. 

And they are forcing them into their system which is probably their right. But not in this case here.

This is my last post on this here... I think Coach Wojo needs to humble himself and send a coach or go back and get Deonte and even John on this team. It won't happen but it should.

Curious of your age,  20?  I ask because Wojo has probably been around D-1 ball longer than you have been alive.  Reading that post above just oozes of a millennial know it all.

[willie warrior]

You know what my name was scoop stalker. I'm fine with being fickle in your opinion. I really don't care what a 50 year old guy who spends 18 hours a day on this message board thinks. I just checked the stats, you have spent over 8 1/2 months on this board since joining less than 6 years ago. You really need to find a hobby or something constructive to do. It's just not healthy.

How dare you call the Sultan out like that? Now you will be subject to many "rational" posts about how you are clueless.

[mattyv1908]

Yet, you continue to do so, in the form of theories and suppositions of which you have no knowledge. Deonte needs to cool down? Really? How do you know that he was hot? Should Luke Fischer have cooled down and returned to IU?

Separating the upper and underclassmen is an issue? You know that how? One of the stranger things I've read on this topic.

"This is all on Wojo," and yet, "both parties dropped the ball." Which is it?

Time for everyone to drop the drama and theatrics. Players transfer...all the time. Some good, some bad. It happens to every program, every year. Fact is, had he transferred before the season stated/with the coaching change, nobody would have really said a much about it. The fact that he chose to stay, and later changed his mind, should not turn this into some sort of nuclear event.

If recent history is any indication, there is a good chance Wojo/MU will upgrade both scholarships as a result of this. This year really doesn't matter anyway, they aren't any good, and burton and Dawson weren't going to change that. In the end this probably makes MU better down the road.

What recent history are you referring to?  Wojo has hardly been here.  We haven't even seen his recruiting class play a meaningful college minute yet.

[NavinRJohnson]

What recent history are you referring to?  Wojo has hardly been here.  We haven't even seen his recruiting class play a meaningful college minute yet.

Nice try, but the answer of course is the only recent history we have. How does the class Wojo recently signed stack up historically against other MU classes. Of course they haven't played yet, but in no way does that mean recent history doesn't indicate that he can get top rated talent. Let me take that step further to help you understand...if 18 months from now, these guys turn out as expected, the then current recent history will still indicate he can recruit top talent. If they don't, the then current recent history may indicate that maybe he can get highly rated players, but may not actually be going after the right guys/have a good eye for talent. Get it now?

All of that said, the recent history we have indicates that he can recruit top talent. it really isn't complicated if you are willing to look at it objectively, as opposed to through the filter of anger over a player deciding to transfer out of MU.

[brandx]

Curious of your age,  20?  I ask because Wojo has probably been around D-1 ball longer than you have been alive.  Reading that post above just oozes of a millennial know it all.

Not only young, but sounds like an amateur psychologist as we'll.

[mattyv1908]

Nice try, but the answer of course is the only recent history we have. How does the class Wojo recently signed stack up historically against other MU classes. Of course they haven't played yet, but in no way does that mean recent history doesn't indicate that he can get top rated talent. Let me take that step further to help you understand...if 18 months from now, these guys turn out as expected, the then current recent history will still indicate he can recruit top talent. If they don't, the then current recent history may indicate that maybe he can get highly rated players, but may not actually be going after the right guys/have a good eye for talent. Get it now?

All of that said, the recent history we have indicates that he can recruit top talent. it really isn't complicated if you are willing to look at it objectively, as opposed to through the filter of anger over a player deciding to transfer out of MU.

Buzz's last two recruiting classes were consensus top 15 classes, the incoming class is a consensus top 10.

'If my optimism is any indication' or 'If my hopefulness is any indication' would have been appropriate since your prognosis is entirely based on your optimism and hope.

[jakeec]

Why do you guys think there is such a transfer epidemic right now?  Why do you think Badgers have not had many transfers?  Wisconsin has had 6 transfers in 11 years under Bo Ryan and Marquette has just had that the last 3 years.  I am just wondering why there is such a difference?

[brandx]

Why do you guys think there is such a transfer epidemic right now?  Why do you think Badgers have not had many transfers?  Wisconsin has had 6 transfers in 11 years under Bo Ryan and Marquette has just had that the last 3 years.  I am just wondering why there is such a difference?

Wisconsin pays better.

[HutchwasClutch]

Why do you guys think there is such a transfer epidemic right now?  Why do you think Badgers have not had many transfers?  Wisconsin has had 6 transfers in 11 years under Bo Ryan and Marquette has just had that the last 3 years.  I am just wondering why there is such a difference?

Bo recruits a lot of kids who don't have it in their head they're going to play at the next level.  That program is the exception almost to the extreme, not the rule in today's college basketball world.  It's an apples and oranges comparison.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why do you guys think there is such a transfer epidemic right now?  Why do you think Badgers have not had many transfers?  Wisconsin has had 6 transfers in 11 years under Bo Ryan and Marquette has just had that the last 3 years.  I am just wondering why there is such a difference?

Bo recruits players who aren't very good until their senior years. Wisconsin would be the best place they could go. Then they aren't very good after they leave Wisconsin because he's developed them in a way that will only work in his system.