UT - Martin Game Thread

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't understand why you keep saying Mayo blocked JJJ instead of Jake. You keep saying we needed Jake to stretch the defense. Pretty sure JJJ was a threat from 3 last night and he would've been last year too. JJJ is a shooting guard, same as Jake.

JJJ was shooting sub .300 last season. Jake was near .400. JJJ shot it well last night, you may have noticed that the awkward hitch in his shot is gone. He was not known for his shooting ability coming out of high school...his talent was slashing.

JJJ is not a shooting guard. He is a combo guard or wing, whatever you want to call it. Jake is a pure shooting guard. Mayo played the same role as JJJ. JJJ could not bring what Jake could last season. Playing JJJ and Mayo at the same time would have been a disaster last season.

[Wojo'sMojo]

JJJ was shooting sub .300 last season. Jake was near .400. JJJ shot it well last night, you may have noticed that the awkward hitch in his shot is gone. He was not known for his shooting ability coming out of high school...his talent was slashing.

JJJ is not a shooting guard. He is a combo guard or wing, whatever you want to call it. Jake is a pure shooting guard. Mayo played the same role as JJJ. JJJ could not bring what Jake could last season. Playing JJJ and Mayo at the same time would have been a disaster last season.

Was Michael Jordan a shooting guard? Just because a player can drive and slash doesn't mean they aren't a shooting guard. Jordan was a shooting guard, as was Steve Kerr. Who was more valuable? JJJ not only could have brought what Jake did last year, he would have brought a whole added dimension. My point is Shooting guards come in all different forms and JJJ would have been able to keep defenses honest with his outside shot. I think Mayo and JJJ would have been great together last year. Two players who could drive and shoot, is better than having one guy out there who was a one trick pony for 30 minutes a game.

[MU82]

Shoots better. 

I have seen no evidence that Derrick shoots better. Certainly didn't see it either last night -- when he bricked two free throws, his only shots longer than a foot -- or last season, when I'm not sure he made three shots from beyond three feet.

I want to see it. Wanting something and having it actually happen are two different things.

His career percentages are .368 FGs, .083 on 3's and .440 on FTs. If he isn't the worst-shooting PG in college basketball, I'd like to hear who is.

Defending him by saying he has proven he is shooting better -- even incrementally better -- hurts one's credibility.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Was Michael Jordan a shooting guard? Just because a player can drive and slash doesn't mean they aren't a shooting guard. Jordan was a shooting guard, as was Steve Kerr. Who was more valuable? JJJ not only could have brought what Jake did last year, he would have brought a whole added dimension. My point is Shooting guards come in all different forms and JJJ would have been able to keep defenses honest with his outside shot. I think Mayo and JJJ would have been great together last year. Two players who could drive and shoot, is better than having one guy out there who was a one trick pony for 30 minutes a game.

Michael Jordan's ability to drive didn't keep him from being a SG. But JJJ's inability to hit a three at decent clip kept him from being a shooting guard.

Fans look at players in terms of what position do they play. Coaches look at players based on what role can they play. For example, Lebron didn't play the point guard position for Miami, but he often played the role of point guard. Mayo and JJJ played the exact same role last season. They were slashing guards. As a general rule, you don't play two slashing guards together when your best player is an immobile post and your PG doesn't need a defender on the perimeter. That paint would have gotten more stuffed than a thanksgiving turkey. So yes, Jake and JJJ were both 2s, but they played completely different roles.

Mayo barely hit threes at a .300 clip. JJJ was sub .300. To call either a shooter would have been a fallacy. Slashers are most effective when paired with a shooter. Jake the Snake fit this role perfectly. Our most effective lineup last season was when Mayo and Jake were on the court at the same time. JJJ could have theoretically replicated what Mayo brought, but there was no way he was going to replicate Jake's shooting.

Now, if yesterday's performance is indicative of how he will shoot now that that the awkward hitch is out of his form, than maybe this season's JJJ would have been able to fill the role of both slasher and shooter. I think so and I hope so.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Michael Jordan's ability to drive didn't keep him from being a SG. But JJJ's inability to hit a three at decent clip kept him from being a shooting guard.

Fans look at players in terms of what position do they play. Coaches look at players based on what role can they play. For example, Lebron didn't play the point guard position for Miami, but he often played the role of point guard. Mayo and JJJ played the exact same role last season. They were slashing guards. As a general rule, you don't play two slashing guards together when your best player is an immobile post and your PG doesn't need a defender on the perimeter. That paint would have gotten more stuffed than a thanksgiving turkey. So yes, Jake and JJJ were both 2s, but they played completely different roles.

Mayo barely hit threes at a .300 clip. JJJ was sub .300. To call either a shooter would have been a fallacy. Slashers are most effective when paired with a shooter. Jake the Snake fit this role perfectly. Our most effective lineup last season was when Mayo and Jake were on the court at the same time. JJJ could have theoretically replicated what Mayo brought, but there was no way he was going to replicate Jake's shooting.

Now, if yesterday's performance is indicative of how he will shoot now that that the awkward hitch is out of his form, than maybe this season's JJJ would have been able to fill the role of both slasher and shooter. I think so and I hope so.

Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen are both 32% career 3 point shooters. It didn't seem to hamper the Bulls, who put together some of the best teams ever. Mayo hit 33.3% and JJJ 29% on threes last year. It could have been done and would have worked out better for us than having Jake on the floor for 30mpg. Jake hit 3's at a 39% clip last year, the year prior, under 28%. I look for a similar jump from JJJ this year.

[GGGG]

I have seen no evidence that Derrick shoots better. Certainly didn't see it either last night -- when he bricked two free throws, his only shots longer than a foot -- or last season, when I'm not sure he made three shots from beyond three feet.

I want to see it. Wanting something and having it actually happen are two different things.

His career percentages are .368 FGs, .083 on 3's and .440 on FTs. If he isn't the worst-shooting PG in college basketball, I'd like to hear who is.

Defending him by saying he has proven he is shooting better -- even incrementally better -- hurts one's credibility.

Even though it is objectively accurate if you look at FG%.

[jsglow]

I'm not doubting you hear stuff.  I am doubting that JJJ told you flat out that Buzz lied to him. 

Let it go Sultan.  And Chitown, of course you hear things directly from players.  So does my kid.  But understand that everything they say is filtered through their own 19 y/o lens.  Carry on men.

[jsglow]

Fans look at players in terms of what position do they play. Coaches look at players based on what role can they play. For example, Lebron didn't play the point guard position for Miami, but he often played the role of point guard. Mayo and JJJ played the exact same role last season. They were slashing guards. As a general rule, you don't play two slashing guards together when your best player is an immobile post and your PG doesn't need a defender on the perimeter. That paint would have gotten more stuffed than a thanksgiving turkey. So yes, Jake and JJJ were both 2s, but they played completely different roles.

Which leads to another thing I've contemplated.  All will recall that Derrick had a tough time with his entry pass to the post last year.  We were built around 'the big fella' and really struggled to get him the ball effectively.  I wonder how Carlino would have done?  And I'm very glad that we're back to a motion offense.  On Friday I don't think I remember a single forced shot as the shot clock wound down.  And from what little I remember, Luke can move and pass with the best of them so when he returns..... 

[MU82]

Even though it is objectively accurate if you look at FG%.

If you think going from hitting 30% of one's layups to hitting 40% of one's layups is a sign of improved shooting ability, you win. I can't argue with that.

[bilsu]

How has Derrick steadily improved in your opinion, in all seriousness? I think offensively he has regressed.

Last year in his first four games he scored 3 points total and finished the season averaging 5.0 ppg. That is a significant improvement. He went from not being able to make a layup to being able to make layups. That does not make him a good player, but he did improve throughout the year.

[bilsu]

I thought he only took one bad shot (though I didn't see the first 8 minutes).  Along with one bad pass.

Only 1 TO, 0 PF, and 6-9 from the floor.  Extremely efficient.

We had 7 turnovers and two of them involved passes to Burton. The one, which I think you are referring to was a long pass to Burton anticipating him continuing to the basket and the other one was a pass from Cohen anticipating Burton moving to the basket. In both cases Burton stopped and the passes went awry. It was liking watching Rodgers throw an incompletion, because the receiver did not do what was expected.

[Lennys Tap]

Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen are both 32% career 3 point shooters. It didn't seem to hamper the Bulls, who put together some of the best teams ever.

The Bulls were a different animal. Steve Kerr and John Paxson were called point guards when they played with Jordan/Pippen but they were no such things. While Pippen (point forward) and Jordan dominated the ball, they played off the ball and shot jump shots.

[brandx]

Michael Jordan's ability to drive didn't keep him from being a SG. But JJJ's inability to hit a three at decent clip kept him from being a shooting guard.

Fans look at players in terms of what position do they play. Coaches look at players based on what role can they play. For example, Lebron didn't play the point guard position for Miami, but he often played the role of point guard. Mayo and JJJ played the exact same role last season. They were slashing guards. As a general rule, you don't play two slashing guards together when your best player is an immobile post and your PG doesn't need a defender on the perimeter. That paint would have gotten more stuffed than a thanksgiving turkey. So yes, Jake and JJJ were both 2s, but they played completely different roles.

Mayo barely hit threes at a .300 clip. JJJ was sub .300. To call either a shooter would have been a fallacy. Slashers are most effective when paired with a shooter. Jake the Snake fit this role perfectly. Our most effective lineup last season was when Mayo and Jake were on the court at the same time. JJJ could have theoretically replicated what Mayo brought, but there was no way he was going to replicate Jake's shooting.

Now, if yesterday's performance is indicative of how he will shoot now that that the awkward hitch is out of his form, than maybe this season's JJJ would have been able to fill the role of both slasher and shooter. I think so and I hope so.

I assume that you are kidding. A"perfect" shooting guard is a guy that shoots 36% and averages 7+ pts. a game?

[brandx]

The Bulls were a different animal. Steve Kerr and John Paxson were called point guards when they played with Jordan/Pippen but they were no such things. While Pippen (point forward) and Jordan dominated the ball, they played off the ball and shot jump shots.

The NBA is a different animal. As far as positions go, you are what you can guard.