Jucos

[Knight Commission]

Let's cut to the uncomfortable truth.


How do you you think Huggs and Tark/ Crean/ Gillespie/ Buzz became successful?

Answer: recruit the JUCOS/prop 48 no one else would.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

They go after high school kids because they are by and large better players. Only a small % of the Juco All Americans pan out. Tom Crean's certainly didn't - his record with them would tell him to stay away. Buzz had great success with his - probably more than any other college coach over the last 5 years. If I'm his employer I say carry on.

His actual employer didn't, for a number of reasons. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Marquette has always been the school of second chances--always took JUCO's and transfers.  In fact, MU had four on the National Champion team.  Is it worse to waste a scholarship on transfers as they use up an empty a year (not senior transfers).  Dean Smth didn't want Jimmy Boylan as he didn't take transfers.

Pick your poison-- a Chris Otule for six years or a Jimmy Butler JUCO for two (even though he played three)?

[tower912]

Jimmy and DJO were at MU for 3.   

[River rat]

Let me rephrase the poll.

 Are JUCO's more likely to impair the MU basketball brand than "traditional" high school graduates who have been offered scholarships ?    

Well based on the last 4 years at mu which has seen the greatest sucess since the mid 1970's it is clearly enhanced!!!

[River rat]

His actual employer didn't, for a number of reasons. 

Can any recall keefes classic quote comparing chicos to the cowardly fighter pilot.  It was so spot on!!!

[tower912]

Al:  JUCO's
Rick:   JUCO's
Crean:  JUCO's
Buzz:  JUCO's

Bottom line, JUCO's are an integral part of MU basketball history.  

[Nukem2]

Al:  JUCO's
Rick:   JUCO's
Crean:  JUCO's
Buzz:  JUCO's

Bottom line, JUCO's are an integral part of MU basketball history.  

This.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This.

No one said differently.  Volume is a big part of that equation.

1 per year, doesn't create enormous turnover, etc....not a big deal

When 40% of your team is JUCO, that's a different story and why Al never did it, Rick never did it, Crean never did it, Hank, etc....not to that level.  Only a few schools have ever done it at that level and those schools.......no thanks. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can any recall keefes classic quote comparing chicos to the cowardly fighter pilot.  It was so spot on!!!

You should run for the board at MU, perhaps as the Angus baron.  That way you could influence some of these decisions....may I suggest you bring this to the meetings.

[River rat]

Chicos bound n determined to go down with the ship

[River rat]

You should run for the board at MU, perhaps as the Angus baron.  That way you could influence some of these decisions....may I suggest you bring this to the meetings.

Cant challenge the content so might as well grasp at straws n challenge the spelling of a poster on an internet message board.  Pretty small

[Dr. Blackheart]

No one said differently.  Volume is a big part of that equation.

1 per year, doesn't create enormous turnover, etc....not a big deal

When 40% of your team is JUCO, that's a different story and why Al never did it, Rick never did it, Crean never did it, Hank, etc....not to that level.  Only a few schools have ever done it at that level and those schools.......no thanks. 

A JUCO is a transfer without sitting out a year.  The 1977 team had four transfers, two being starters and one who won the Kansas State game. Was Robert Jackson worth it for one year of sitting and one year of playing? Your bias against transfers is chock full of holes.  Back out now why you can.

[Nukem2]

No one said differently.  Volume is a big part of that equation.

1 per year, doesn't create enormous turnover, etc....not a big deal

When 40% of your team is JUCO, that's a different story and why Al never did it, Rick never did it, Crean never did it, Hank, etc....not to that level.  Only a few schools have ever done it at that level and those schools.......no thanks. 

Agree with that.  Judicious use makes sense.

[Nukem2]

A JUCO is a transfer without sitting out a year.  The 1977 team had four transfers, two being starters and one who won the Kansas State game. Was Robert Jackson worth it for one year of sitting and one year of playing? Your bias against transfers is chock full of holes.  Back out now why you can.

Chicos was speaking of Jucos only.  Transfers from 4 year schools are a are different story from an academic perspective.  I don't see any bias in what he said. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My thoughts on this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqC5FnvAEc

[Dr. Blackheart]

Chicos was speaking of Jucos only.  Transfers from 4 year schools are a are different story from an academic perspective.  I don't see any bias in what he said. 

Nope...Chicos on page 1 of this thread:

Of course.   Then again, I'd choose a roster of 100% Travis Diener, Steve Novaks, Wesley Matthews, etc, etc.....in a heartbeat.

They are here for 4 years, not 2 years.  Pretty simple math....remember, the subject you are so good at.

[Lennys Tap]

Was Robert Jackson worth it for one year of sitting and one year of playing?

A one year transfer who was a MPS product/Mississippi State student and a guy who couldn't get a 17 on the ACT were 40% of the 2003 starting 5. One of them was the second or third best guy on the team and the other was the best player to ever wear a Marquette uniform. Between the two of them they played at MU for three years total. Without them that team doesn't make the tournament in 2003. I wish we had another transfer or non qualifier on that team in place of Townsend. Maybe if 60% of our starters "didn't belong" at MU we could have won the whole damn thing. This elitist approach to the basketball program reeks of arrogance and flies in the face of what has made MU basketball, at times anyway, elite.

[4everwarriors]

Lenny Man, with all do respect, we coulda had Lew Alcindor, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron on that team and the results woulda been the same 'cuz Too Tan Tommy was coachin', hey?

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny Man, with all do respect, we coulda had Lew Alcindor, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron on that team and the results woulda been the same 'cuz Too Tan Tommy was coachin', hey?

Point taken.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cant challenge the content so might as well grasp at straws n challenge the spelling of a poster on an internet message board.  Pretty small

I've challenged the content plenty, you just don't get it.  You haven't answered the question presented to you four times now....must be because you are pretty small. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

A JUCO is a transfer without sitting out a year.  The 1977 team had four transfers, two being starters and one who won the Kansas State game. Was Robert Jackson worth it for one year of sitting and one year of playing? Your bias against transfers is chock full of holes.  Back out now why you can.

Sorry, but you are categorically wrong on this in so many ways.  A transfer has to sit, a JUCO does not.  A transfer has qualified at a four year institution, many JUCOs have not.  A transfer has a greater likelihood of graduating based on the data than a JUCO because of credits actually counting, this impacts our APR rates which can hamper us if we don't maintain a certain level.

Robert Jackson, was a transfer.  Even if he was a JUCO, taking one here and there is not an issue.  Not sure how many times I have to say it.  The issue becomes when your 40% of your roster is turning over in two years (yes, some JUCOs play 3), then you have more pressure on your recruiting cycles, more pressure on graduation rates.  These are just some of the reasons why schools don't do it.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nope...Chicos on page 1 of this thread:

Excuse me? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny Man, with all do respect, we coulda had Lew Alcindor, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron on that team and the results woulda been the same 'cuz Too Tan Tommy was coachin', hey?

If we had those guys against Syracuse do we get to 40 points?

[Texas Western]

A juco is no different in my mind than any other transfer. They have to meet all the applicable standards. Once they are a part of the MU family I don't question how they got here.