Another Theory Bites the Dust - Buzz and his "Maniacal" Substitutions Last Year

[Galway Eagle]

I'll let you guys figure this out.  For the #2 coach in Marquette history to just walk out the door, not be saved and to go to powerhouse Virginia Tech (when the supposedly less heralded coaches at MU went to Tennessee, Indiana, etc) should tell you everything you need to know.

Too many people here look only at W's and L's, not at what else was going on, what their starting points were, incidents off the court, etc.  It's a whole package.

It's pretty amazing that the supposed #2 coach in MU history, a history that is very rich, would just be able to walk away and land such a prestigious coaching job.....unless one takes off the beer goggles and examines the entirety of the situation.  Of course, too many people don't have the information to do that, or those that do and just don't care and subscribe to the JUST WIN BABY attitude.

There's a reason why the "#2 coach in MU history" isn't at MU any longer and is in Blacksburg, VA. 

I mean as a coach I feel like the main job is A) win B) player development

I'm confused are you trying to say we shouldn't care about him winning or not to base our decision on who was second best?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I mean as a coach I feel like the main job is A) win B) player development

I'm confused are you trying to say we shouldn't care about him winning or not to base our decision on who was second best?

I'll ask again, from a highly regarded program like Marquette basketball, why is it that the "#2 coach in the history of MU basketball" was allowed to walk away and landed that major job with powerhouse Virginia Tech.


The job is more than to win.....there's a reason he's not at MU and he's at Va. Tech.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

There are three former head MU basketball coaches (and guessing soon to be four) in the Hall of Fame not named Crean or Williams.

[Henry Sugar]

There are three former head MU basketball coaches (and guessing soon to be four) in the Hall of Fame not named Crean or Williams.

Dr. Blackheart comes in like

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There are three former head MU basketball coaches (and guessing soon to be four) in the Hall of Fame not named Crean or Williams.

Yeah. But only one of them is in the HOF because of their work with Marquette. Tex Winter is in there because of his time with Kansas State and the Chicago Bulls (and inventing the triangle offense). Eddie Hickey is in there because of his time with Creighton and SLU. Rick Majerus is the one I assume you are saying will be the fourth and he is known for his time with Utah. Only Al is really associated with Marquette.

Overall records with Marquette:
Tex Winter: 25-25 (.500)
Eddie Hickey: 92-70 (.568)
Al McGuire: 295-80 (.787)
Rick Majerus: 56-35 (.615)
Tom Crean: 190-96 (.664)
Buzz Williams: 139-65 (.681)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'll ask again, from a highly regarded program like Marquette basketball, why is it that the "#2 coach in the history of MU basketball" was allowed to walk away and landed that major job with powerhouse Virginia Tech.


The job is more than to win.....there's a reason he's not at MU and he's at Va. Tech.   

I'm really not sure where you are going with this. MU wouldn't budge on their expectations for Buzz or the benefits he received. VT would give him what he wanted. So Buzz left. That's the main reason he is gone.

I also don't buy the argument that because he went to a lesser school that it somehow diminishes his record at Marquette. Is Bob Knight diminished because he went to Texas Tech?

[Galway Eagle]

I'll ask again, from a highly regarded program like Marquette basketball, why is it that the "#2 coach in the history of MU basketball" was allowed to walk away and landed that major job with powerhouse Virginia Tech.


The job is more than to win.....there's a reason he's not at MU and he's at Va. Tech.   

I don't know I don't pretend to know, don't like to indulge conspiracy theories either. But I mean my original question was why did you say "lol" I mean when he took over we had 26 ncaa tournament appearances (just four more than lowely depaul still has) 13 sweet 16s (just three more than lowely depaul had). I'm not saying buzz did it right, or in the marquette way or wasn't a prick that mightve lead to us letting him walk away... but to the average uninformed MU fan or general basketball fan who looks at what they brought the program in terms of wins and losses Id be willing to bet >80% of them would say Buzz was the second best coach. 

Now in terms of what you judge coaching by like I said I don't know enough of the ins and outs of the program to argue. I know a lot of players have credited buzz for being a father figure or helping them mature but that could all be a pile for I know. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

There are three former head MU basketball coaches (and guessing soon to be four) in the Hall of Fame not named Crean or Williams.

Yup

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm really not sure where you are going with this. MU wouldn't budge on their expectations for Buzz or the benefits he received. VT would give him what he wanted. So Buzz left. That's the main reason he is gone.

I also don't buy the argument that because he went to a lesser school that it somehow diminishes his record at Marquette. Is Bob Knight diminished because he went to Texas Tech?

TAMU, I believe you are missing the underlying causes.  The "#2 coach" in MU history one would think the university would do everything they could to retain him, afterall he's the #2 coach in the history of the storied program....they didn't.  Secondly, as the #2 coach of such a storied program like MU, he should be going to a program that has done more than go to one NCAA tournament in the last 20 years.  He didn't.

There are reasons he is not at MU any longer and why he went to Va. Tech.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, I believe you are missing the underlying causes.  The "#2 coach" in MU history one would think the university would do everything they could to retain him, afterall he's the #2 coach in the history of the storied program....they didn't.  Secondly, as the #2 coach of such a storied program like MU, he should be going to a program that has done more than go to one NCAA tournament in the last 20 years.  He didn't.

There are reasons he is not at MU any longer and why he went to Va. Tech.

Coaches not wanting to follow a university's expectations and demanding more benefits have nothing to do with how good the coach was. You also do not take into account that university had already bent over backwards in previous years to keep him. They were just unwilling to bend any farther.

As for your second point, irrelevant again. See Bob Knight to Texas Tech.

Finally, as sad as I am to say, Marquette is not exactly known for having storied coaches outside of Al. Not hard to be number two in this group compared to some of the elite programs.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't know I don't pretend to know, don't like to indulge conspiracy theories either. But I mean my original question was why did you say "lol" I mean when he took over we had 26 ncaa tournament appearances (just four more than lowely depaul still has) 13 sweet 16s (just three more than lowely depaul had). I'm not saying buzz did it right, or in the marquette way or wasn't a prick that mightve lead to us letting him walk away... but to the average uninformed MU fan or general basketball fan who looks at what they brought the program in terms of wins and losses Id be willing to bet >80% of them would say Buzz was the second best coach. 

You clearly articulated it

[ChicosBailBonds]

Coaches not wanting to follow a university's expectations and demanding more benefits have nothing to do with how good the coach was. You also do not take into account that university had already bent over backwards in previous years to keep him. They were just unwilling to bend any farther.

As for your second point, irrelevant again. See Bob Knight to Texas Tech.

Finally, as sad as I am to say, Marquette is not exactly known for having storied coaches outside of Al. Not hard to be number two in this group compared to some of the elite programs.

Your first paragraph, again, misses some key components, underlying causes.

Bob Knight was fired at Indiana for doing a number of things that would not get him another job as a coach...that's why Woody Hayes never coached again.  The analogy is not appropriate.

[Galway Eagle]

You clearly articulated it

Right but a vassssssssttttttttt majority of the schools students, alumni, steakholders are uninformed.  So unless it comes out that his players were self taught you can't expect anyone to ever listen to vague statements about why he didn't get a better coaching gig or how he was shown the door etc.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Your first paragraph, again, misses some key components, underlying causes.

I am not missing anything. I'm just being purposefully vague. I still stand by my #2 statement. I have heard squirminess about every coach dating back to Al. Buzz' sh*t smells similar to the rest of the coaches. Except Dukiet, got nothing on him...maybe that's why he was terrible.

Bob Knight was fired at Indiana for doing a number of things that would not get him another job as a coach...that's why Woody Hayes never coached again.  The analogy is not appropriate.

My point was that the next job does not diminish the success at the previous job. If you want to look at the entire coaching career, sure. But Buzz being the head coach at Virginia Tech does not have any affect on his standing amongst Marquette coaches.

[MU82]

I think the bigger issue people had with your statement Chico's, is that your response was "LOL", as in, how could that even be considered.

I could hear an argument for TC as the #2 coach in MU history.  I personally probably think Buzz is, but I can understand arguments against him.  In no way is considering Buzz the #2 coach, a laughable item that does not warrant any consideration.

This was my point, too.

Chicos, in his typically Chicosian way, dismissed the notion with a wave of his hand.

"You knaves, you dopes ... Buzz second only to Al just because of all those wins and all that sustained success? ... please ... I'm always right, everybody else is always wrong ... go back to Bumblef@ck and take your meaningless facts with you ... LOL."

[GGGG]

TAMU, I believe you are missing the underlying causes.  The "#2 coach" in MU history one would think the university would do everything they could to retain him, afterall he's the #2 coach in the history of the storied program....they didn't.  Secondly, as the #2 coach of such a storied program like MU, he should be going to a program that has done more than go to one NCAA tournament in the last 20 years.  He didn't.

There are reasons he is not at MU any longer and why he went to Va. Tech.

It really isn't that black and white. 

Buzz might or might not be the #2 coach in Marquette history.  Regardless, it is obvious that he was successful and that Marquette was more than satisfied with the on court performance.  But they weren't comfortable with a few things ranging from Juco recruiting, to his dickish personality, to his demands that they change certain things.

Crean might or might not be #2, but he at least pretty much conducted himself off court in a manner that Marquette was comfortable with. 

[g0lden3agle]

Chicos - How would you rank MU's coaches?