Hmmmmmmmmm.

[Tums Festival]

Lots of sour grapes here...and we don't recruit at their level anyways.

We are this year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We are this year.

Well...

We are competing with them for a recruit. But when the dust settles, our class will be barely top ten. Their's will be number one....with a large gap between them and number 2.

[NavinRJohnson]

I have actually come to respect coach Cal quite a bit. He's no more slimy or dirty than the next guy. He's just a little more open, honest and transparent about the system in which he operates, and the sham of amateurism and student athletes. He doesn't try to build up the false narrative that the overwhelming number of players he and most in the upper eschelon of college BBall are involved with, are students first and players second. On the contraray, most of those players are going to college to play BBall, and further their basketball careers, with academics more of a necessary evil.

Cal doesn't really pretend to be something he isn't as so many other coaches do. The perfect approach for the school he's at, and it has made him wildly successful. People may not like it, because they selfishly like the old system of college BBall, want their own team to be good, etc., and the NCAA's restrictions and facade help accommodate that, but Cal's approach may actually be the most honest and least offensive out there, because he more or less calls it what it is, treats it as the professional sport that it is, and uses it to his advantage. Guess I see nothing wrong with that.

[Tums Festival]

Well...

We are competing with them for a recruit. But when the dust settles, our class will be barely top ten. Their's will be number one....with a large gap between them and number 2.

I completely understand that we won't compete with UK for recruits on a regular basis, but hopefully it'll more often with Wojo than it did with Brent.

[mu-rara]

I have actually come to respect coach Cal quite a bit. He's no more slimy or dirty than the next guy. He's just a little more open, honest and transparent about the system in which he operates, and the sham of amateurism and student athletes. He doesn't try to build up the false narrative that the overwhelming number of players he and most in the upper eschelon of college BBall are involved with, are students first and players second. On the contraray, most of those players are going to college to play BBall, and further their basketball careers, with academics more of a necessary evil.

Cal doesn't really pretend to be something he isn't as so many other coaches do. The perfect approach for the school he's at, and it has made him wildly successful. People may not like it, because they selfishly like the old system of college BBall, want their own team to be good, etc., and the NCAA's restrictions and facade help accommodate that, but Cal's approach may actually be the most honest and least offensive out there, because he more or less calls it what it is, treats it as the professional sport that it is, and uses it to his advantage. Guess I see nothing wrong with that.

I hate to be so cynical, but I think you have it pegged.  I also hope Wojo really believes what he's preaching.  I'd like to believe Marquette is slinging the Jesuit hash.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have actually come to respect coach Cal quite a bit. He's no more slimy or dirty than the next guy. He's just a little more open, honest and transparent about the system in which he operates, and the sham of amateurism and student athletes. He doesn't try to build up the false narrative that the overwhelming number of players he and most in the upper eschelon of college BBall are involved with, are students first and players second. On the contraray, most of those players are going to college to play BBall, and further their basketball careers, with academics more of a necessary evil.

Cal doesn't really pretend to be something he isn't as so many other coaches do. The perfect approach for the school he's at, and it has made him wildly successful. People may not like it, because they selfishly like the old system of college BBall, want their own team to be good, etc., and the NCAA's restrictions and facade help accommodate that, but Cal's approach may actually be the most honest and least offensive out there, because he more or less calls it what it is, treats it as the professional sport that it is, and uses it to his advantage. Guess I see nothing wrong with that.

How many of those end up failing in hoops and that "necessary evil" keeps food in their mouths and productive members of society?

I don't disagree with your intent on this thread, but whenever it comes to this issue or related corollaries you seem to often paint this brush that most programs are like this, and that isn't the case.  Your statements are true for some very high profile programs, and perhaps that's what you meant by upper echelon, but I'd like to know where that cutoff is.  Wisconsin is an upper echelon program and this isn't their M.O. at all.  Kentucky, sure.  Duke, I disagree...sure you can pick a few Duke players perhaps out of the bunch but not the vast majority.

Of course there are going to be kids that are only going to school because they are playing hoops.  Let's not sell short that more than enough also understand there is positive benefit to getting an education and using those basketball schools as a means to acquiring it. 

[Dawson Rental]

I have actually come to respect coach Cal quite a bit. He's no more slimy or dirty than the next guy. He's just a little more open, honest and transparent about the system in which he operates, and the sham of amateurism and student athletes. He doesn't try to build up the false narrative that the overwhelming number of players he and most in the upper eschelon of college BBall are involved with, are students first and players second. On the contraray, most of those players are going to college to play BBall, and further their basketball careers, with academics more of a necessary evil.

Cal doesn't really pretend to be something he isn't as so many other coaches do. The perfect approach for the school he's at, and it has made him wildly successful. People may not like it, because they selfishly like the old system of college BBall, want their own team to be good, etc., and the NCAA's restrictions and facade help accommodate that, but Cal's approach may actually be the most honest and least offensive out there, because he more or less calls it what it is, treats it as the professional sport that it is, and uses it to his advantage. Guess I see nothing wrong with that.

I believe that Coach Cal's reputation as dirty has more to do with his being the only coach to coach two teams to the final four where those final fours were later vacated by the NCAA.  That and player recruitment situations like the Antonio Blakeney decommitment from Louisville this year.  

I agree with the majority of posters on this thread that there is nothing wrong with his holding a combine for the NBA at Kentucky.

[Nukem2]

I believe that Coach Cal's reputation as dirty has more to do with his being the only coach to coach two teams to the final four where those final fours were later vacated by the NCAA.  That and player recruitment situations like the Antonio Blakeney decommitment from Louisville this year.  

I agree with the majority of posters on this thread that there is nothing wrong with his holding a combine for the NBA at Kentucky.

Think you are forgetting about World Wide Wes...?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I have actually come to respect coach Cal quite a bit. He's no more slimy or dirty than the next guy. He's just a little more open, honest and transparent about the system in which he operates, and the sham of amateurism and student athletes. He doesn't try to build up the false narrative that the overwhelming number of players he and most in the upper eschelon of college BBall are involved with, are students first and players second. On the contraray, most of those players are going to college to play BBall, and further their basketball careers, with academics more of a necessary evil.

Cal doesn't really pretend to be something he isn't as so many other coaches do. The perfect approach for the school he's at, and it has made him wildly successful. People may not like it, because they selfishly like the old system of college BBall, want their own team to be good, etc., and the NCAA's restrictions and facade help accommodate that, but Cal's approach may actually be the most honest and least offensive out there, because he more or less calls it what it is, treats it as the professional sport that it is, and uses it to his advantage. Guess I see nothing wrong with that.

A unique perspective. Hard to disagree. Much of the rest of the two major sports still maintains the facade of amateurism for image purposes. That's what a lot of the public wants. The public still thinks it's 1970 out there (or whenever the average boomer graduated from college). The fake image is what sells college sports.

[ChicosBailBonds]

A unique perspective. Hard to disagree. Much of the rest of the two major sports still maintains the facade of amateurism for image purposes. That's what a lot of the public wants. The public still thinks it's 1970 out there (or whenever the average boomer graduated from college). The fake image is what sells college sports.

Well, my 8 years in intercollegiate athletics had many experiences of kids busting butt in the classroom and the athletic fields.  Too many of you lump a few schools or some instances at others and broadly state it as the norm for everyone.  It just isn't the case.

[GGGG]

A unique perspective. Hard to disagree. Much of the rest of the two major sports still maintains the facade of amateurism for image purposes. That's what a lot of the public wants. The public still thinks it's 1970 out there (or whenever the average boomer graduated from college). The fake image is what sells college sports.

I don't think the general public cares all that much about amateurism.  I think they want them to be enrolled, attend class, and be good citizens.  If they earned some $$$ in the process, I don't think you would see much change in interest level.

[NavinRJohnson]

I don't think the general public cares all that much about amateurism.  I think they want them to be enrolled, attend class, and be good citizens.  If they earned some $$$ in the process, I don't think you would see much change in interest level.

I think you're living in fantasyland. People will say that's what they want, but in reality, I think they want them to win, be on TV, etc. If they do that, it's very easy to rationalize the rest away.

If you were right, there is a 0% chance Chip Kelly would be coaching at ND. Calipari would not be coaching UK, and Jaimis Winston would be bagging groceries instead of stealing them.

The money poured into college athletics is not because players are attending classes and being good citizens, it's because they're scoring touchdowns and draining 3s. All of that said, I have no problem with that, I just wish more folks would be honest with themselves and others and call it what it is.

[GGGG]

Well you might be right.  Yeah you probably are...

[Nukem2]

Well, my 8 years in intercollegiate athletics had many experiences of kids busting butt in the classroom and the athletic fields.  Too many of you lump a few schools or some instances at others and broadly state it as the norm for everyone.  It just isn't the case.

Probably true of 75% as a wild guess.  SEC FB and elite BB are probably the major exceptions....?

[forgetful]

Well, my 8 years in intercollegiate athletics had many experiences of kids busting butt in the classroom and the athletic fields.  Too many of you lump a few schools or some instances at others and broadly state it as the norm for everyone.  It just isn't the case.

I have spent years in academia and I would argue that at the BCS level in basketball and football, athletes busting their butt in the classroom is the exception, not the norm. 

That is why they have special majors like Life Science Communication (UW) and others to make the athletes lives easier. 

Now in other sports the athletes are typically very good and dedicated students.

[Dawson Rental]

Think you are forgetting about World Wide Wes...?

So many stories, so little time...

[MUDPT]

I think you're living in fantasyland. People will say that's what they want, but in reality, I think they want them to win, be on TV, etc. If they do that, it's very easy to rationalize the rest away.

If you were right, there is a 0% chance Brian Kelly would be coaching at ND. Calipari would not be coaching UK, and Jaimis Winston would be bagging groceries instead of stealing them.

The money poured into college athletics is not because players are attending classes and being good citizens, it's because they're scoring touchdowns and draining 3s. All of that said, I have no problem with that, I just wish more folks would be honest with themselves and others and call it what it is.

Fixed it.

[ThatDude]

I have a VERY reliable source telling me that Henry Ellenson will choose Kentucky.  Contrary to many people's belief,  his visit at Marquette didnt go so well.

[MUfan12]

I have a VERY reliable source telling me that Henry Ellenson will choose Kentucky.  Contrary to many people's belief,  his visit at Marquette didnt go so well.

I also have VERY reliable people telling me you're wrong. I guess we'll see.

[Groin_pull]

I have a VERY reliable source telling me that Henry Ellenson will choose Kentucky.  Contrary to many people's belief,  his visit at Marquette didnt go so well.

I think I smell vadger.

[JWags85]

I have a VERY reliable source telling me that Henry Ellenson will choose Kentucky.  Contrary to many people's belief,  his visit at Marquette didnt go so well.

It went poor enough that national, unbiased basketball reporters are tweeting out that Marquette is the leader, unsolicited?

[wadesworld]

I have a VERY reliable source telling me that Henry Ellenson will choose Kentucky.  Contrary to many people's belief,  his visit at Marquette didnt go so well.

Haha

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I have a VERY reliable source telling me that Henry Ellenson will choose Kentucky.  Contrary to many people's belief,  his visit at Marquette didnt go so well.

He may end up choosing Kentucky, but I have multiple VERY reliable sources that say that Henry's visit went great.

[BCHoopster]

He may end up choosing Kentucky, but I have multiple VERY reliable sources that say that Henry's visit went great.

Who should we believe?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you're living in fantasyland. People will say that's what they want, but in reality, I think they want them to win, be on TV, etc. If they do that, it's very easy to rationalize the rest away.

If you were right, there is a 0% chance Chip Kelly would be coaching at ND. Calipari would not be coaching UK, and Jaimis Winston would be bagging groceries instead of stealing them.

The money poured into college athletics is not because players are attending classes and being good citizens, it's because they're scoring touchdowns and draining 3s. All of that said, I have no problem with that, I just wish more folks would be honest with themselves and others and call it what it is.

Chip Kelly is at ND?  Not sure I understand.

There are some people, including this board, that want college athletics to be merely an athlete factory and just win baby, forget everything else.  That is true of every fanbase.  There are also a number of fanbases that want both, good results on the field, good academics, good citizens, honor the school and don't tarnish the school.  Most casual fans are this way, they get excited when the team does well, but they get very angry when the kids do something really stupid to tarnish the school.  The rabid fans that don't understand that these kids are college students are typically the ones that want to win and win only.  Unfortunately, those are the stereotypes that are pervasive.