A New Stadium For The 2017 Season?

[GOO]

Parks are not used as they once were.  There are to many with open space that are simply not used, especially by kids.  If there isn't an organized sport using it, or nice amenities (walking/bike paths, tennis courts), open space has become a waste and expensive to maintain.  Exceptions are along the lake front where they get used.  Parks don't serve the purpose they did when there was little green space and factories polluting and no air conditioning, etc.   

Improving schools, unfortunately has little to do with the schools themselves.  Why do catholic schools do as good or a better job with less?  Look at the parents who care and are involved.  This comes from someone I know who studied this very issue.  The difference.  Parental involvement.  It trumps the other factors including poverty.  Of course, an impoverished parent may be less likely to be involved for a host of reasons, but an involved parent is where society needs to start.  The schools, to many, are supposed to be the answer and solve societies ills.  It doesn't work that way. Can we force parental involvement?  Not sure, but the schools probably are not the place to start enforcement. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Here's a similar example for you from Hartford, CT unfolding right now.   The owner of AA New Britain Rock Cats (Twins affiliate) planned to move to Massachusetts somewhere, however very quietly along the way the city of Hartford secretly negotiated with him to build a downtown AA Baseball stadium in an area called Downtown North that Hartford has been trying to redevelop for 30 years.  (And to keep them in state.)  They announced a "$60mil stadium only" with hopes that redevelopment would follow.  Residents went bonkers with many of the arguments I've read in this thread so the city put the DoNo redevelopment out for bid for the entire area so that private money could enter into the development right from the beginning.
They got three interesting submissions with the one chosen one that includes:
* the new stadium
* movement of the Thomas Hooker Brewery downtown including a beer garden overlooking the field
* a Little League Field
* a downtown grocery store (two grocery stores committed however that shakes out as the city has been trying for 25years to bring just one downtown)
* 300 apartments next to the stadium

The argument being made now is without the stadium none of this other development will happen.  They're still working out the final details but it sounds like it's going to happen.

[tower912]

I would also refer you to East Lake Country Club in Atlanta and the Harbor Shores development in Benton Harbor as examples where a sports venue, in these cases high end golf courses, can have a revitalizing effect on an entire community.     Again, it take vision and cooperation from all entities and replacing an old arena with a new one is not the same.   I get it.   But there are examples of where it has worked.

[TedBaxter]

Improving schools, unfortunately has little to do with the schools themselves.  Why do catholic schools do as good or a better job with less?  Look at the parents who care and are involved.  This comes from someone I know who studied this very issue.  The difference.  Parental involvement.  It trumps the other factors including poverty.  Of course, an impoverished parent may be less likely to be involved for a host of reasons, but an involved parent is where society needs to start.  The schools, to many, are supposed to be the answer and solve societies ills.  It doesn't work that way. Can we force parental involvement?  Not sure, but the schools probably are not the place to start enforcement. 

Thank you.  Thank you very much.  No truer words have ever been said on education and parents.

[WarriorFan]

Actually the current bradley center location is optimal, and it's important that this part of town not die... so the solution is obvious.  While the Bucks still suck and don't fill up the place, shut the place down 1/4 at a time (north end, then south end, then west side, then east side) and renovate.  The footprint can expand on the same block, and in fact the parking garage on the west side could be removed and some very nice mixed use facilities adjoining the BC put in it's place.  If this was timed properly, the bulk of work could be done without impacting hoops season at all, because the Bucks won't be in the playoffs this year.

I'd love to see a good stadium engineering firm like HNTB or AECOM take on this challenge.

[Litehouse]

The current location would be OK, but then just tear the BC down and build out over the entire 4 blocks.  Let the Bucks play some games in the MECCA, Kohl Hole and Resch for a year while the arena portion is under construction.  But then the only room for development would be the empty lot to the north.  The MATC and MECCA/Theatre prevents development to the west and south, and you still have the problem of the undersized convention center disconnected from the new arena.

I think they should leave the BC as is, tear down the entire convention center, MECCA and Theatre, build the new arena on Wisconsin Ave, and put in the convention center spanning two blocks interconnecting the new arena and BC.  There are some drawbacks with that too, but I think it would be the best long-term solution for the city.

[LAZER]

I heard the story below on Marketplace last night and thought it was pretty timely.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/the-eagles-come-to-allentown-and-so-does-american-futures/380053/

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Actually, we should maybe look at the BC itself to see what kind of financial impact it's made on the city.

What impact have the Bucks and BC made on the city since 1988?

Certainly 3rd st. bars and restaurants. Major Goolsbys. Some hotels get business. Water St. gets some business.

Parking structures/lots.

[GGGG]

The other thing that I don't think people always grasp is that if you put a new BC in a different part of the city, and tie it into apartments and all sorts of development, is that it will simply draw people out of a different part of the metropolitan area.  Putting 300 apartments downtown is great, but you don't a net gain of 300 renters that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.  Putting restaurants near the arena is nice, but people aren't going to eat out more because of them.

So yes while a new downtown arena can be nice for downtown, you have to understand that it doesn't create economic activity that wouldn't have taken place otherwise.  But one argument could be that a healthy downtown, at the expense of say Wauwatosa...or Brookfield...or the Third Ward, is a net gain for the metropolitan area as a whole.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The other thing that I don't think people always grasp is that if you put a new BC in a different part of the city, and tie it into apartments and all sorts of development, is that it will simply draw people out of a different part of the metropolitan area.  Putting 300 apartments downtown is great, but you don't a net gain of 300 renters that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.  Putting restaurants near the arena is nice, but people aren't going to eat out more because of them.

So yes while a new downtown arena can be nice for downtown, you have to understand that it doesn't create economic activity that wouldn't have taken place otherwise.  But one argument could be that a healthy downtown, at the expense of say Wauwatosa...or Brookfield...or the Third Ward, is a net gain for the metropolitan area as a whole.

I agree that it's a bit like rearranging the deck chairs, but big picture, right now we have suburbs continuing to expand and grow.

IF you could get some population density back into the city, you could theoretically slow down some of the outer ring growth.

Also, population density is good for entertainment areas. The eastside is more dense than ever, and it shows with tons of new dining and entertainment options.

Lastly, Milwaukee seems to do pretty well attracting people under 30 to live in the city. An important next step is figuring out how to retain those people. There are good housing options and neighborhoods (eastside, bay view, 3rd ward, Brewer's Hill, etc.), but as soon as people hit 30+, they are heading out to find lower taxes and better schools. Shorewood, Whitefish Bay & Tosa are where people live if they want to be close to the city but still have a family. Gotta change that, somehow.

I think resident retention could be an interesting concept.

[Litehouse]

So yes while a new downtown arena can be nice for downtown, you have to understand that it doesn't create economic activity that wouldn't have taken place otherwise.

Maybe, but if the entertainment district itself is a big enough draw itself, it could attract people that otherwise wouldn't have done anything that night.  Also, it can start drawing people from further away that are looking for a fun evening out.

[WarriorFan]

I agree that it's a bit like rearranging the deck chairs, but big picture, right now we have suburbs continuing to expand and grow.

IF you could get some population density back into the city, you could theoretically slow down some of the outer ring growth.

Also, population density is good for entertainment areas. The eastside is more dense than ever, and it shows with tons of new dining and entertainment options.

Lastly, Milwaukee seems to do pretty well attracting people under 30 to live in the city. An important next step is figuring out how to retain those people. There are good housing options and neighborhoods (eastside, bay view, 3rd ward, Brewer's Hill, etc.), but as soon as people hit 30+, they are heading out to find lower taxes and better schools. Shorewood, Whitefish Bay & Tosa are where people live if they want to be close to the city but still have a family. Gotta change that, somehow.

I think resident retention could be an interesting concept.

so true... I would consider living in Milwaukee and in downtown but for one thing, Milwaukee Public Schools!

[Benny B]

So yes while a new downtown arena can be nice for downtown, you have to understand that it doesn't create economic activity that wouldn't have taken place otherwise.

Not necessarily.  A healthy downtown helps employers to attract employees, ergo, a healthy downtown allows the city to attract employers who want to attract employees.

When it comes to the long-term HR planning, particularly recruiting millennials, most businesses are focusing their efforts to locate, expand and/or relocate in CBD areas; in other words, they have no interest in going to the suburbs.

So a healthy downtown could create metro-area economic activity that wouldn't have taken place otherwise.

[jficke13]

I agree that it's a bit like rearranging the deck chairs, but big picture, right now we have suburbs continuing to expand and grow.

IF you could get some population density back into the city, you could theoretically slow down some of the outer ring growth.

Also, population density is good for entertainment areas. The eastside is more dense than ever, and it shows with tons of new dining and entertainment options.

Lastly, Milwaukee seems to do pretty well attracting people under 30 to live in the city. An important next step is figuring out how to retain those people. There are good housing options and neighborhoods (eastside, bay view, 3rd ward, Brewer's Hill, etc.), but as soon as people hit 30+, they are heading out to find lower taxes and better schools. Shorewood, Whitefish Bay & Tosa are where people live if they want to be close to the city but still have a family. Gotta change that, somehow.

I think resident retention could be an interesting concept.

I'm under 30, live on the Eastside in one of those shiny new buildings on Kennilworth near Ma Fischer's. Last Friday at about 3 a.m. I awoke to some thug emptying a clip somewhere within a block or two of my apartment.

It's not hard to see why people leave Milwaukee and head to Tosa or any of the other near-suburbs.

[Skatastrophy]

I'm under 30, live on the Eastside in one of those shiny new buildings on Kennilworth near Ma Fischer's. Last Friday at about 3 a.m. I awoke to some thug emptying a clip somewhere within a block or two of my apartment.

It's not hard to see why people leave Milwaukee and head to Tosa or any of the other near-suburbs.

It's so boring out here in the burbs. There's nothing but conservative white people and crappy white-bread restaurants/bars, it's horrible. We're moving back downtown.

[jficke13]

It's so boring out here in the burbs. There's nothing but conservative white people and crappy white-bread restaurants/bars, it's horrible. We're moving back downtown.

Enjoy the gunfire.

In the past month I've called 911 twice. Once for the shooting I mentioned already. The other for a full-fledged drunken brawl of dozens of (I think) UWM students outside my apartment (it was their move-in day). Today my apartment building emailed us that someone broke into the garage and stole people's bikes.

Marquette's campus felt infinitely safer. I didn't realize that the Eastside was the equivalent of Detroit.

[MUfan12]

Marquette's campus felt infinitely safer. I didn't realize that the Eastside was the equivalent of Detroit.

I've lived less than a mile south of you for six years and never felt unsafe.

[source?]

Enjoy the gunfire.

In the past month I've called 911 twice. Once for the shooting I mentioned already. The other for a full-fledged drunken brawl of dozens of (I think) UWM students outside my apartment (it was their move-in day). Today my apartment building emailed us that someone broke into the garage and stole people's bikes.

Marquette's campus felt infinitely safer. I didn't realize that the Eastside was the equivalent of Detroit.

East side is waaaay safer than downtown. I got jumped by 3 guys at 10:30 in the morning while walking down Wisconsin Ave. Anywhere you live in a city is going to have crime. BTW, I don't know how much experience you have with firearms, but I've heard people set off firecrackers and other fireworks fairly often over here (I live right by UWM). They have slightly different sounds. Not saying you're wrong, but it is uncommon for a shooting to happen on the east side.

Drunk college kids is a minor inconvenience. Don't involve yourself and you won't usually have a problem.

[source?]

So yes while a new downtown arena can be nice for downtown, you have to understand that it doesn't create economic activity that wouldn't have taken place otherwise.  But one argument could be that a healthy downtown, at the expense of say Wauwatosa...or Brookfield...or the Third Ward, is a net gain for the metropolitan area as a whole.

Not necessarily 100% accurate. If I go to a Bucks game, it's not necessarily in lieu of going to the Marcus or the zoo. Basketball interests me so on a night when I might otherwise stay in, grab a netflix/redbox, and MAYBE spend $5 on a sub I'm instead spending $20 on a ticket (nosebleeds, still in college), $15 on parking, and $40 at the bars afterwards. Frankly, if I don't spend that money there it's going into my savings (probably the wiser choice anyway, but that's a different topic).

[Ari Gold]

East side is waaaay safer than downtown. I got jumped by 3 guys at 10:30 in the morning while walking down Wisconsin Ave. Anywhere you live in a city is going to have crime. BTW, I don't know how much experience you have with firearms, but I've heard people set off firecrackers and other fireworks fairly often over here (I live right by UWM). They have slightly different sounds. Not saying you're wrong, but it is uncommon for a shooting to happen on the east side.

Drunk college kids is a minor inconvenience. Don't involve yourself and you won't usually have a problem.

"way" may be a bit of an over-exaggeration.
http://fox6now.com/2014/09/10/rash-of-robberies-on-milwaukees-east-side-suspects-sought/

It's so boring out here in the burbs. There's nothing but conservative white people and crappy white-bread restaurants/bars, it's horrible. We're moving back downtown.

It's too bad there wasn't some way to transport oneself downtown and back to enjoy these bars and restaurants, without dealing with the downsides of a major city. It's too bad no one has invited a motorized horseless carriage or some other such nonsense.

[Skatastrophy]

It's too bad there wasn't some way to transport oneself downtown and back to enjoy these bars and restaurants, without dealing with the downsides of a major city. It's too bad no one has invited a motorized horseless carriage or some other such nonsense.

For me the drunk driving would be the main hurdle.

[GOO]

I like many, drive to Milwaukee for games.  If not for the MU games, I would not be there and neither would I be at a bar and/or restaurant before or after the game. If my wife is along, the game day may include some shopping.  Wouldn't happen but for the games.  Otherwise, we'd head south towards Chicago or stay close to home.

I'm sure there are thousands who do the same for each game.  Same for the Bucks or at least it keeps some people in town spending before they head home to the burbs after the game (okay, in theory, if they had a decent team  and people actually went to Bucks games).

[Litehouse]

For me the drunk driving would be the main hurdle.

Maybe if they'd build a train...

[source?]

"way" may be a bit of an over-exaggeration.
http://fox6now.com/2014/09/10/rash-of-robberies-on-milwaukees-east-side-suspects-sought/

It's too bad there wasn't some way to transport oneself downtown and back to enjoy these bars and restaurants, without dealing with the downsides of a major city. It's too bad no one has invited a motorized horseless carriage or some other such nonsense.

That's an uncommon occurrence. I may have exaggerated (slightly, you can take out one "a" if you want).

http://spotcrime.com/wi/milwaukee

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wi/milwaukee/crime/

The area immediately around Marquette isn't much different but the rest of downtown is way worse.

[Ari Gold]

Maybe if they'd build a train...

or lyft or uber... or you know you could try drinking less? or have a designated driver? It's not that fucking hard