Today's Jesuit Universities

[Lighthouse 84]

Ok, first off, I have to say, I'm an empty nester for the first time.  My oldest is a senior at I4 and my twins went different directions.  My son to I4 (both at Kelley) and my daughter to SLU.  Here's my issue for Scoop:

My daughter has been at SLU for two weeks.  However, ever since she got there, she's been thinking the majority of SLU students are extremely religious, almost to the point of unbearable.  Keep in mind she picked a Jesuit university because she likes her Catholic faith.  I've told her give it a chance, she'll meet many people who aren't that way and that there are students who only want to party their collective asses off and a bunch of students in between those extremes.  She seems to think most are the religious type.

Now the question.....has anyone else found this to be true of SLU, that there are far more overly religious types than not?  Are MU and other Jesuit universities this way also?  Or is it in my daughter's (and some of her floormate's) mind?  I got out of MU in 1984 and back then, I don't think I knew anyone who was like that.  I knew many who regularly attended mass (me included) but no one I'd consider uncomfortably religious.

Thanks to all parents of current students at SLU, MU, Creighton, Loyola, etc. and current students who reply.  I truly want to know if my daughter's perception is reality or she just needs to get out more and meet other students. 

[warriorchick]

Ok, first off, I have to say, I'm an empty nester for the first time.  My oldest is a senior at I4 and my twins went different directions.  My son to I4 (both at Kelley) and my daughter to SLU.  Here's my issue for Scoop:

My daughter has been at SLU for two weeks.  However, ever since she got there, she's been thinking the majority of SLU students are extremely religious, almost to the point of unbearable.  Keep in mind she picked a Jesuit university because she likes her Catholic faith.  I've told her give it a chance, she'll meet many people who aren't that way and that there are students who only want to party their collective asses off and a bunch of students in between those extremes.  She seems to think most are the religious type.

Now the question.....has anyone else found this to be true of SLU, that there are far more overly religious types than not?  Are MU and other Jesuit universities this way also?  Or is it in my daughter's (and some of her floormate's) mind?  I got out of MU in 1984 and back then, I don't think I knew anyone who was like that.  I knew many who regularly attended mass (me included) but no one I'd consider uncomfortably religious.

Thanks to all parents of current students at SLU, MU, Creighton, Loyola, etc. and current students who reply.  I truly want to know if my daughter's perception is reality or she just needs to get out more and meet other students. 

MU certainly isn't.

[Lighthouse 84]

Thanks Chick.

[MUbaseball49]

Daughter a sophomore at Creighton - no, not even close
Son a freshman at MU - no so far
Lots of both kids' friends at SLU - no based on knowing them from our town

I think your advice is prudent - give it time and get out more...

[muhoosier260]

MU isn't at all. I'm not Catholic, and I never felt out of place at Marquette.

[MUsoxfan]

I'm not religious at all. I never felt out of place at MU. Father Naus became the man I most admire away from my immediate family because he truly understood.

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU is the anti-Catholic university at times.  I felt you had to really seek it to find it, which always amazed me for a "Catholic" university.

Never heard that about SLU.

[drewm88]

I truly want to know if my daughter's perception is reality or she just needs to get out more and meet other students. 

Needs to get out more. In my experience with Jes schools (which numbers around 6 or 8), SLU may be one of the more religious ones, but it's still FAR from what she describes.

[Coleman]

SLU definitely isn't as big as a party school as MU, basketball isn't as big a deal, so there are some things that might attract a more religious person there vs. MU. Plus, SLU has a seminary on campus, whereas MU does not. These things might contribute to her perception. And if she is in an all female dorm vs coed that also might attract a more religious person.

Overall, Jesuit schools do not attract an overly religious type, in my experience. Practicing Catholics have lots of opportunities for worship and campus ministry but I wouldn't say others would feel uncomfortable.

It sounds to me like it was just (bad) luck of the draw for your daughter and she lives with some girls who are more on the religious side. She will eventually make friends who are more like her and will feel comfortable soon enough.

[Chili]

Needs to get out more. In my experience with Jes schools (which numbers around 6 or 8), SLU may be one of the more religious ones, but it's still FAR from what she describes.

misread your statement. nothing to see here. continue on. bourbon!!!!

[LloydMooresLegs]

I was visiting SLU w/ my HS sr. the weekend your daughter moved in; the admin people said 50% Catholic.  A fair amount of emphasis on spirtuallity and service.  First 15 minutes of the admin presentation were by a Jesuit (Fr. Rampola) who discussed what makes a Jesuit eduction different.  I found the entre presentation to strike the right balance of not being afraid to show Jesuit/Catholic stripes while also emphasizing that it is a university intentionally open and inviting to all.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

So we can agree Marquette is not becoming like SLU?

[mu_hilltopper]

I never felt that MU was a religious school, not in the classroom, nor out.

Amongst my friends and roommates through 4 years, I knew of a grand total of zero who went to mass.  True, likely some did and I just didn't know about it, but that'd indicate that no one wore their religiousness on their sleeve at MU.

[keefe]

Doesn't Marquette still have Jesuits living in the dorms? Rick Abert and Frank Majka lived in McCormick and we had floor Masses and other faith-centric activities. Many classrooms had a crucifix on the wall - imagine the outrage at State U over that simple thing.

[Coleman]

Doesn't Marquette still have Jesuits living in the dorms? Rick Abert and Frank Majka lived in McCormick and we had floor Masses and other faith-centric activities. Many classrooms had a crucifix on the wall - imagine the outrage at State U over that simple thing.

Fr. Andy Thon, SJ was still living in McCormick during my years on campus (2004-2008), but I think that most of the dorms now have lay chaplains/campus ministers.

There was a mass celebrated in the Schroeder Hall chapel once a week on Wednesdays at 10 am, but I think most people went to masses at Joan of Arc, Chapel of the Holy Family (in the AMU), or Gesu vs. chapels in the dorms. I never went to mass on Sundays, but usually did the Tuesday night mass with Fr. Naus at Joan of Arc.

The sad fact is that the number of Jesuits on campus is dwindling. I think the new Jes Res will have accommodations for only about 30 Jesuits.

Most classrooms do still have crucifixes. I rather like that small piece of Catholic identity at Marquette. It is not in your face, but a small reminder of why the school exists in the first place. However, I am of the opinion that the number of crucifixes and roman collars on campus does not make a school more or less Catholic. These are superficial metrics and the real measure of Catholicity is in the lives of the students, the number of hours they devote to service, the way they treat one another and their positive impact on the larger Milwaukee community.

[GGGG]

Thanks to all parents of current students at SLU, MU, Creighton, Loyola, etc. and current students who reply.  I truly want to know if my daughter's perception is reality or she just needs to get out more and meet other students. 

I think regardless if SLU is more overtly Catholic or not, that your daughter should get out to meet more people.  I would guess there are plenty of people there who aren't so extremely religious, and that she should be able to find a friend group.  Maybe a student group on some subject of interest?

Or maybe she won't and would like to transfer.  A lot of kids do.  She shouldn't view it as some sort of failure on her part if she does.

[PBRme]

I remember the priest walking down the halls and knocking on doors Sunday morning before Mass saying "get your A$$e$ to Mass

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I remember the priest walking down the halls and knocking on doors Sunday morning before Mass saying "get your A$$e$ to Mass

If that happened to me I woulda transfered right then and there. But yea MU is hardly religious for a catholic university.

[Benny B]

I think regardless if SLU is more overtly Catholic or not, that your daughter should get out to meet more people.  I would guess there are plenty of people there who aren't so extremely religious, and that she should be able to find a friend group.  Maybe a student group on some subject of interest?

Or maybe she won't and would like to transfer.  A lot of kids do.  She shouldn't view it as some sort of failure on her part if she does.

Exactly.  I'm sure there's even freshmen at BYU right now (namely, the ones who are road tripping to Park City every weekend), thinking "hey, this place isn't nearly as religious as I thought it was."

[CTWarrior]

I have many friends and two siblings who went to Fairfield and a sister who went to Fordham, and neither school was particularly religious at all.

[Coleman]

Also, if people think MU is non-religious, check out Loyola Chicago. Besides the fact that they still have a Jesuit President, Catholicism is not shoved down your throat at all there.

[muwarrior69]

When I attended in the 60s MU required 12 theology and 12 philosophy credits for me to get my degree as a Catholic. Non-Catholics had to make up those credits from humanities courses of their choosing. Perhaps my generation would be considered too religious by your daughter as many of us attended mass everyday, however, I never encountered anyone you would call pious, virtuous or a goody two shoes. We studied hard, played hard and when we were of age drank hard.

[mu_hilltopper]

When I attended in the 60s ... as many of us attended mass everyday.

OMG, seriously?

[muwarrior69]

OMG, seriously?

Yes! In fact I went everyday except Sunday. I sang tenor at the Presbyterian Church on 10th St. at their 9 and 11 am services on Sunday. They paid me fifty dollars a month which wasn't bad money back then.

[swoopem]

I went to mass twice during my time at MU. The first time was my brother's baccalaureate mass and the second was during mine.

In 2008 we had a snow day on Ash Wednesday. After a long day of partying half of the crew went to get their ashes and the other half chose to skip the ashes and go to Hagerty's for double your dough instead. I was sans ashes that year.

[Coleman]

In related news: http://jesuits.org/news-detail?TN=NEWS-20140824085942

They clearly picked the wrong name. Marquette University India has a nice ring to it.

The Jesuits are booming in India and Africa. They are the only geographies where there is growth in their numbers, although it still does not make up for declines in the rest of the world.

[Babybluejeans]

MU is by no means a heavily religious school. I also went to mass twice at my time at MU--once before I took the LSAT and the second time at the baccalaureate. None of my friends ever attended mass nor did most of the people I knew at MU. I really didn't know anyone who evinced any kind of deep religious conviction. Mostly we drank and reveled in being young when we weren't in class.

My friends who scattered off to other Jesuit schools--I went to a Jesuit high school in DC and there were many--all had a similar experience as me. I'd bet your daughter will find that she's had a non-representative experience so far. Tell her to stop attending those official school events and find a kegger in a crappy old house--there she shall find her brethren.

[tower912]

The more she gets out of the dorm, the more people she meets,  the more clubs/events that she attends/joins, the less of this she will find.   

[jsglow]

In answering the question about Jesuits in the dorms at MU I would suggest that roughly 50% of the buildings still have one. ALL resident halls have a full-time trained chaplain; typically not a priest.  MU still provides numerous religious outlets and resources but I'd be hard pressed to think any non Catholic would ever be uncomfortable.  And do remember that Jesuits move between universities. For example,  Roc O'Connor studied at SLU, had an earlier stint at MU,  went to Creighton for many years and is now returning to Marquette.

[jsglow]

I'll also say this. In a crisis situation I'd never hesitate reaching out to one or more MU Jesuits to deal with a serious problem with one of my kids and be 100% confident that things would be perfectly handled.

[ChicosBailBonds]

When I attended in the 60s MU required 12 theology and 12 philosophy credits for me to get my degree as a Catholic. Non-Catholics had to make up those credits from humanities courses of their choosing. Perhaps my generation would be considered too religious by your daughter as many of us attended mass everyday, however, I never encountered anyone you would call pious, virtuous or a goody two shoes. We studied hard, played hard and when we were of age drank hard.

It was 9 Theo, and 12 Phil when I went.   Occasionally went to St. Joan of Arc mass, or went to Gesu.  Had Jesuit priests for all my Theo classes and at least one Phil class.

Don't believe there was a Catholic specific requirement in the 80's.

[muwarrior69]

It was 9 Theo, and 12 Phil when I went.   Occasionally went to St. Joan of Arc mass, or went to Gesu.  Had Jesuit priests for all my Theo classes and at least one Phil class.

Don't believe there was a Catholic specific requirement in the 80's.

The Theo courses were only 2 credits back then not 3. So I had to take 6 classes.  I had 7 Jesuit professors; 4 left the priesthood during my 9 semesters ( double major chemistry/biology) at MU. It was an interesting time as Vatican II has just completed. There were those professors who just couldn't let go of tradition and then there were those who wanted to change everything. Not too many in the middle.

The pedophile scandal has really hurt the church which has undermined it's moral authority and why things are so different today from when I attended.

[muhoosier260]

When I attended in the 60s MU required 12 theology and 12 philosophy credits for me to get my degree as a Catholic. Non-Catholics had to make up those credits from humanities courses of their choosing. Perhaps my generation would be considered too religious by your daughter as many of us attended mass everyday, however, I never encountered anyone you would call pious, virtuous or a goody two shoes. We studied hard, played hard and when we were of age drank hard.

That strikes me as very strange that there were different curricula based on religion. I suppose now while there are still theology and philosophy requirements, it's a little more generic.

[muhoosier260]

Doesn't Marquette still have Jesuits living in the dorms? Rick Abert and Frank Majka lived in McCormick and we had floor Masses and other faith-centric activities.

When were you at MU? I lived in Mashuda in 2006-07 school year and Fr. Majka lived across the hall from us. Really laid back, and very friendly, and he never complained about anything on the weekends. 

[77ncaachamps]

As a Jesuit HS grad, Marquette seemed like an extension of HS, especially with its religious life: masses were OFFERED but never mandatory. (It must be noted that in HS we did have mandatory masses, about 1 or 2 a year.)

Like Chicos said, if you wanted specific aspects of Catholic life, you could find it at MU. Faith groups, social justice groups, daily masses, etc. Heck, I joined a bible study group for two chicks - who were uber-Catholics - and needless to say, I left empty handed.

I think the Jesuit Catholic education centers on personal reflection of Christ's life and teachings and how you extend it in your sphere of influence, and not a canned Catholicism that is rigid and structured. Just my two cents.


RE: the new Xavier University in India, couldn't these guys put on more of a happy face?!

[keefe]

I went to a Jesuit high school in DC

Zag???

Hoya Saxa!

[Coleman]

Zag???

Hoya Saxa!

Isn't there also a Georgetown Prep?

[real chili 83]

10:00 mass on Sunday nights in Schroeder was well attended. Especially when Fr Naus did a guitar mass in costume.

[keefe]

When were you at MU? I lived in Mashuda in 2006-07 school year and Fr. Majka lived across the hall from us. Really laid back, and very friendly, and he never complained about anything on the weekends. 

Frank was on our floor in McCormick. Nice guy. We heard Wally Spence take his dive and got Frank who administered Last Rites. The next night he called a floor meeting and talked to us about stress and such but his delivery was magnificent. The Jesuits are an integral part of the Marquette experience that I fear their diminishing numbers detracts from the experience.

[rocket surgeon]

Frank was on our floor in McCormick. Nice guy. We heard Wally Spence take his dive and got Frank who administered Last Rites. The next night he called a floor meeting and talked to us about stress and such but his delivery was magnificent. The Jesuits are an integral part of the Marquette experience that I fear their diminishing numbers detracts from the experience.

you have a great memory.  that was really a sad and confusing time as most of us had not experienced anything like that in our short time away from home.  frank was there for wally when, not too many other universities outside of the religious ones could have provided for that kind of attention at that moment  of wally's life.  then they were able to provide us with some peace and understanding also before there were "grief counselors" .  father frank was a great guy-had many a spaten at john hawkes pub over games of backgammon.  taught me the finer things of pipe smoking(uhle's tobacco on wisconsin ave.) from a meershaum pipe and how to color it with bees wax. he was trying to get me to substitute/quit ciggs.  what a blast from the past.  if not for a previous commitment(his), he would have married us-thanks for reminding me of him keefe!     

[keefe]

Isn't there also a Georgetown Prep?

There is no "also" in Georgetown Prep!

[keefe]

you have a great memory.  that was really a sad and confusing time as most of us had not experienced anything like that in our short time away from home.  frank was there for wally when, not too many other universities outside of the religious ones could have provided for that kind of attention at that moment  of wally's life.  then they were able to provide us with some peace and understanding also before there were "grief counselors" .  father frank was a great guy-had many a spaten at john hawkes pub over games of backgammon.  taught me the finer things of pipe smoking(uhle's tobacco on wisconsin ave.) from a meershaum pipe and how to color it with bees wax. he was trying to get me to substitute/quit ciggs.  what a blast from the past.  if not for a previous commitment(his), he would have married us-thanks for reminding me of him keefe!     

We were married by Corbett Walsh at Gesu. My wife got to know him through a shared interest in Joyce. How many schools have alumni return to campus to be married by a faculty member? Bloody few, actually.

[rocket surgeon]

we would have gotten married at gesu also, but they were really restrictive re: the ceremony.  songs, readings, etc.  ended up at st. peters on east side, but really wanted gesu-a historical and beautiful edifice as it is

[Dr. Blackheart]

There is no "also" in Georgetown Prep!

Give their new president a couple of years...

[LloydMooresLegs]

It was 9 Theo, and 12 Phil when I went.   Occasionally went to St. Joan of Arc mass, or went to Gesu.  Had Jesuit priests for all my Theo classes and at least one Phil class.

Don't believe there was a Catholic specific requirement in the 80's.

Exactly my experience but adding that I did have Rabbi Silberg for Jewish thought and Practice and I hit the 10:00pm at McCormick sometimes too.

[GGGG]

Exactly my experience but adding that I did have Rabbi Silberg for Jewish thought and Practice and I hit the 10:00pm at McCormick sometimes too.

I had my THEOs with a Lutheran pastor, an Orthodox monk, and a Jesuit.

I had my PHILs with a hippie (Philosophy of Art...go figure), a guy from the administration, a lesbian, and a Jesuit.

[Coleman]

I had my THEOs with a Lutheran pastor, an Orthodox monk, and a Jesuit.

I had my PHILs with a hippie (Philosophy of Art...go figure), a guy from the administration, a lesbian, and a Jesuit.

Why I love Marquette.

At a State U you get religious studies taught by a bunch of agnostics, obviously not part of the core curriculum.

At über religious schools you get mandatory classes taught only by people who toe the company line in all of their beliefs, and cram it down The throat of all students.

At Jesuit universities you get a true diversity of beliefs taught to all students, who learn to discern truth for themselves.

[keefe]

At Jesuit universities you get a true diversity of beliefs taught to all students, who learn to discern truth faith for themselves.

I think an important lesson I learned from Fr. Sheehan was the essence of faith

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I had my THEOs with a Lutheran pastor, an Orthodox monk, and a Jesuit.

I had my PHILs with a hippie (Philosophy of Art...go figure), a guy from the administration, a lesbian, and a Jesuit.

Sounds like the start to a bad joke.